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 CaptainBetts wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Did anyone else catch them say grots are 5 pts per model on stream?

Even if I did I would see a hearing aid specialist before I would believe that.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah...............7 PPM boyz I can see. 5 PPM grots I cannot.

Pre-orders are up, and one of the photos clearly shows the Grot unit entry at 3ppm https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Codex-Orks-ibook-2018

Have Grots always had a 3" move?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60630103022_CodexOrksiBook04.jpg

That's a 5. The font plus the image compression make it hard to tell.

This fatty boi is my favourite thing of all of this release.



Also has somebody saw if prices have gone up for things like ork boyz, etc...?

Pre-orders are up on the NZ site including all of the missing kits (resin Kommandos as well).

 Galas wrote:
This fatty boi is my favourite thing of all of this release.

Spoiler:

Also has somebody saw if prices have gone up for things like ork boyz, etc...?

Boyz are 7ppm, that was visible during the stream

 lolman1c wrote:


Seriously, if I hadn't have watched the live stream i wouldn't be as upset but that was terrible marketing. Do not over hype your product to the point it's basically false advertising then show how false it is in the next ten seconds. I really got super exited for the stompa and nauts and then just got smashed when i saw them die... The point of marketing is that is influences how you feel about a product and this could be the best codex ever but that was just awful! And to see points go up on units that seriously needed a buff is also unbelievable. Look at the flyer! It has gone up by 16pts! It's a unit I've never actually seen in real life because it was so bad in 7th and the index. XD

Yea, I'm sure he regrets being all in on the Stompa.

The flyer is still needs to be judged in context, which we don't really have yet.

Yeah, the flyer going up in points doesn't mean anything yet. They might completely rehaul weapon profiles. Probably not, but no point in crying foul just yet

I mean, in dollaridoos. Real money. GW loves to do sneak price increases when they repackage stuff.

Well, that was hilarious. The embarrassment after the game was just delicious. The second I saw knights get turn one I started laughing and then they just continued the comedy with each little preciction of UPCOMING ORKY AWESOMENESS that then fell completely flat.

I just wonder what level of ivory tower you have to live in to see that kind of thing happen every time you try to play the game you design and figure "yeah, the basic balance is in pretty good shape."

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, that was hilarious. The embarrassment after the game was just delicious. The second I saw knights get turn one I started laughing and then they just continued the comedy with each little preciction of UPCOMING ORKY AWESOMENESS that then fell completely flat.

I just wonder what level of ivory tower you have to live in to see that kind of thing happen every time you try to play the game you design and figure "yeah, the basic balance is in pretty good shape."

They don't live in a tower of white, they live in a tower of green.

All indicators are showing that you don't need a good game to make money hand over fist - you just need nostalgia (which is the only thing this game is currently running on). Why would they worry about changing now?

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, that was hilarious. The embarrassment after the game was just delicious. The second I saw knights get turn one I started laughing and then they just continued the comedy with each little preciction of UPCOMING ORKY AWESOMENESS that then fell completely flat.

I just wonder what level of ivory tower you have to live in to see that kind of thing happen every time you try to play the game you design and figure "yeah, the basic balance is in pretty good shape."

It's not ivory tower. All of the REAL GW game designers know exactly what they are doing.

The stompa is where it is on purpose. It looses to half of its points in Knights or Baneblades because the designers want it to lose.

They know.

 JimOnMars wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, that was hilarious. The embarrassment after the game was just delicious. The second I saw knights get turn one I started laughing and then they just continued the comedy with each little preciction of UPCOMING ORKY AWESOMENESS that then fell completely flat.

I just wonder what level of ivory tower you have to live in to see that kind of thing happen every time you try to play the game you design and figure "yeah, the basic balance is in pretty good shape."

It's not ivory tower. All of the REAL GW game designers know exactly what they are doing.

The stompa is where it is on purpose. It looses to half of its points in Knights or Baneblades because the designers want it to lose.

They know.

Yeah at this point I'm 100% convinced they made the Stompa garbage on purpose. For whatever reason they just don't want it to be good for us. Werther it's because Xenos are not allowed to have nice LoW like 'Umies (unlikely) or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake (more likely) doesn't matter at this point. GW decided we are not allowed to have Stompas in 2k games and that's the end of it. There is 0 reason to believe they did not do this on purpose at this point. With the Knight codex they showed they can "reasonably"* price LoW for use in standard games, but for some reason we are not allowed to use ours.

*reasonable as in usable. Many here seem to think they are OP so please don't fall over my use of reasonable here.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:


Seriously, if I hadn't have watched the live stream i wouldn't be as upset but that was terrible marketing. Do not over hype your product to the point it's basically false advertising then show how false it is in the next ten seconds. I really got super exited for the stompa and nauts and then just got smashed when i saw them die... The point of marketing is that is influences how you feel about a product and this could be the best codex ever but that was just awful! And to see points go up on units that seriously needed a buff is also unbelievable. Look at the flyer! It has gone up by 16pts! It's a unit I've never actually seen in real life because it was so bad in 7th and the index. XD

Yea, I'm sure he regrets being all in on the Stompa.

The flyer is still needs to be judged in context, which we don't really have yet.

I think the long uncontrolled bursts stratagem could possibly make the wazboom betterrrrrr??? I didnt get chance to read the whole stratagem on the stream as it went to quick but a +1 to hit vs fly units? or maybe it was only against flyers... either way who knows what the wazboom will be like, i will still be using my blitza bommers though.

Heres hoping that hasnt gone up in pts too....

Nice the Mek shop comes with the scrap pile terrain in speedfreak

 Castozor wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, that was hilarious. The embarrassment after the game was just delicious. The second I saw knights get turn one I started laughing and then they just continued the comedy with each little preciction of UPCOMING ORKY AWESOMENESS that then fell completely flat.

I just wonder what level of ivory tower you have to live in to see that kind of thing happen every time you try to play the game you design and figure "yeah, the basic balance is in pretty good shape."

It's not ivory tower. All of the REAL GW game designers know exactly what they are doing.

The stompa is where it is on purpose. It looses to half of its points in Knights or Baneblades because the designers want it to lose.

They know.

Yeah at this point I'm 100% convinced they made the Stompa garbage on purpose. For whatever reason they just don't want it to be good for us. Werther it's because Xenos are not allowed to have nice LoW like 'Umies (unlikely) or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake (more likely) doesn't matter at this point. GW decided we are not allowed to have Stompas in 2k games and that's the end of it. There is 0 reason to believe they did not do this on purpose at this point. With the Knight codex they showed they can "reasonably"* price LoW for use in standard games, but for some reason we are not allowed to use ours.

*reasonable as in usable. Many here seem to think they are OP so please don't fall over my use of reasonable here.

But it's a GW plastic product! It's not even that expensive at £70 compared to most LAW... maybe because of it's price they don;t want you to spam them when the big ones are like £100. Seriously, though... this is like If I bought a TV and then the company just upgraded it so it only shows me black and white 260p footage. It's a defunct product at this point.

gungo wrote:
Nice the Mek shop comes with the scrap pile terrain in speedfreak

It boggles my. One they are still selling the metal Deffkoptas instead of the AoBR plastic versions.

 Castozor wrote:
or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake

Didn't they overcost FW's models in CA? Please tell me if I am mistaken.
But if I am not, I suppose they could not make THEIR stompa blatantly better I guess.

Was looking at the sprues on the NZ site ... looks like at least some wheels can right away be swapped between models (the hole seem to be the same size).

I'm not saying that it's not possible to do more than that with the proper tools, but these models are definitely not highly customizable from scratch ...

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake

Didn't they overcost FW's models in CA? Please tell me if I am mistaken.
But if I am not, I suppose they could not make THEIR stompa blatantly better I guess.

It's not really even the stompa is bad... it's that the entire live stream revolved around it... This one magical unit that could finally counter a knight army! The dude actually says bring a stompa if you're annoyed with your mates knight army... and then instantly shows you how that's not a good idea... They either showed you how bad a stompa is or how OP knights are... Both options show GW is incompetent at making rules... Bad bad marketing.

The joke is they go on about how good the knight is if you add all this stuff to him but then that makes him 1k+ points! He doesn't even come with an invlun!

If they had just plopped a Stompa down on the table with two Knight Paladins and had them go at it with no Clan Kultures/House Traditions, relics, and stratagems I can see how they might have given themselves the impression that a Stompa could take on two Knights.

I would hope they were smart enough not to playtest like that.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
If they had just plopped a Stompa down on the table with two Knight Paladins and had them go at it with no Clan Kultures/House Traditions, relics, and stratagems I can see how they might have given themselves the impression that a Stompa could take on two Knights.

I would hope they were smart enough not to playtest like that.

Also, maybe the play testing happened before the knight codex.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake

Didn't they overcost FW's models in CA? Please tell me if I am mistaken.
But if I am not, I suppose they could not make THEIR stompa blatantly better I guess.

It's not really even the stompa is bad... it's that the entire live stream revolved around it... This one magical unit that could finally counter a knight army! The dude actually says bring a stompa if you're annoyed with your mates knight army... and then instantly shows you how that's not a good idea... They either showed you how bad a stompa is or how OP knights are... Both options show GW is incompetent at making rules... Bad bad marketing.

The whole thing it's an embarrassment, and shows the complete lack of professionalism in the staff. But I am not going to indulge on it because the relevant comments have already been made. Just wondering about the reason. I was baffled by CA back then so I am trying to put 2 and 2 together. But someone could point out I am wrong on CA, not making absolute statements here.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
If they had just plopped a Stompa down on the table with two Knight Paladins and had them go at it with no Clan Kultures/House Traditions, relics, and stratagems I can see how they might have given themselves the impression that a Stompa could take on two Knights.

I would hope they were smart enough not to playtest like that.

Also, maybe the play testing happened before the knight codex.

That's possible. I assumed they would have been testing codexes against codexes but I really don't know how they did it.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake

Didn't they overcost FW's models in CA? Please tell me if I am mistaken.
But if I am not, I suppose they could not make THEIR stompa blatantly better I guess.

It's not really even the stompa is bad... it's that the entire live stream revolved around it... This one magical unit that could finally counter a knight army! The dude actually says bring a stompa if you're annoyed with your mates knight army... and then instantly shows you how that's not a good idea... They either showed you how bad a stompa is or how OP knights are... Both options show GW is incompetent at making rules... Bad bad marketing.

The whole thing it's an embarrassment, and shows the complete lack of professionalism in the staff. But I am not going to indulge on it because the relevant comments have already been made. Just wondering about the reason. I was baffled by CA back then so I am trying to put 2 and 2 together. But someone could point out I am wrong on CA, not making absolute statements here.

I'll post this video again because it's funny as hell but also you can see it on their faces. They know it's way over points... The guy knows the meta! For some reason it's just stupid points I want to know why that reason is (also can someone also tell me why the painboy went up in value? That was a over coasted unit anyway as it was...)

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
If they had just plopped a Stompa down on the table with two Knight Paladins and had them go at it with no Clan Kultures/House Traditions, relics, and stratagems I can see how they might have given themselves the impression that a Stompa could take on two Knights.

I would hope they were smart enough not to playtest like that.

No, they added 500 + 500 and got 1000. That's GW's playtesting.

Thinking back to the Painboy price increase; all I can really think is that this was the GW thought process

(Boyz go up in price)
"The Painboy can now save MORE points of boyz with its ability, at no change. We must increase its cost for balance!"

Meanwhile, in reality... the amount of models saved is even less...

Given the fact that the Stompa didn't change, the Painboy went up, and other little things didn't really get changed here and there either - I really hope our other units got reconsidered and buffed; if they needed it. I really want to convert some Deff Koptas.

I'm just concerned that "They got access to strategems and Kultur; this makes them stronger. Increase the price!" might have caused our units to either not drop, or worse, increase across the board.

We will see soon, I suppose.

Well, I got my hands on my box and I can confirm there is essentially zero customizability in the buggies, down to the molded on glyphs and models having their limbs not attach at the shoulder so you can't swap them.

On the bright side it was very easy to build (one might even say...Easy-To-Build but these ain't no 25$ models) and the details are absolutely awesome. These are wonderfully orky models unlike some of the more bland recent offerings like orkanauts.

I've only built the dragsta so far but the little details on the model made me chuckle at least five times. The gun is fired by a squig, a Grot with an Atari joystick, and another Grot spotting targets with a string of grenades tied to his back so he doesn't run away. The engine is a shokk attack gun.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake

Didn't they overcost FW's models in CA? Please tell me if I am mistaken.
But if I am not, I suppose they could not make THEIR stompa blatantly better I guess.

Yes this is my point. FW are overcosted, so they can't make the Stompa usable as a FW tier model even though it's an index/codex model. Overall I'm not really mad though. Yes I'm sad boyz are 7 ppm and the Stompa is still garbage, but A) I believe we will see a price hike for other "too good" basic infantry in CA and B) a usable Stompa would have been nice but I still think these kind of models should not be usable in 2k point games period. And like my first post indicated, I think we will be in a pretty good spot. Take that with a grain of salt as I'm both a new player and my local meta isn't comparable to tournaments. But I think for regular play we can field a variety of fun, fluffy and usable lists. The stompa will just not be in those lists.

Okay, here's how I would have done tonight's live stream if I was a multi million pound company who just made stupid money this year and had just invested hundreds of thousands of pounds into the revival of an entire faction.

1. I'd have examined the tournament for one of the top Ork players.
2. Payed for them to have come down to GW 1 week ago. I wouldn't have evn have had to pay them, just offered to pay for flights and accommodation and given them free models.
3. Given them 1 week to get a feel for the codex and to either create a great list with lots of new units (then got someone to paint those units up) or given them a premade list and 1 week to get a hang of that list.
4. Looked at the games and seen who he preformed the best against.
5. Shown that game on live stream to show how amazing Orks are.
6. Profit!

Right now I have counted about 6 people who told me the live stream put them off starting an ork army.

I found one of the saddest things about the Index Stompa was that it also had major problems at FW tier because of the way macro weapons work. It had no good defense against them and didn't have any weapons anywhere near as damaging to shoot back with.

I'm still holding out hope that the codex willl make the Stompa worth taking in fun, casual games. It was so bad in the Index there was nothing fun about it.

 Castozor wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake

Didn't they overcost FW's models in CA? Please tell me if I am mistaken.
But if I am not, I suppose they could not make THEIR stompa blatantly better I guess.

Yes this is my point. FW are overcosted, so they can't make the Stompa usable as a FW tier model even though it's an index/codex model. Overall I'm not really mad though. Yes I'm sad boyz are 7 ppm and the Stompa is still garbage, but A) I believe we will see a price hike for other "too good" basic infantry in CA and B) a usable Stompa would have been nice but I still think these kind of models should not be usable in 2k point games period. And like my first post indicated, I think we will be in a pretty good spot. Take that with a grain of salt as I'm both a new player and my local meta isn't comparable to tournaments. But I think for regular play we can field a variety of fun, fluffy and usable lists. The stompa will just not be in those lists.

It really depends from the cost and synergies of the rest of the codex. Wait and see. We have seen good things, too. For sure, the battle casts a terrible light on the team.
I am following here with a relative distance - I have a good friend of mine that quit because he was dissatisfied by his orks (I converted and painted some Ork for him these days, KT - this is why I was following the relative forum). I am curious to see if there are reasons to convince him to come back full force.
For sure there are many reasons to think different units got improved and are now usable. I am just sure that, as in 7th, GW risks to leave a good amount of money on the table, and there is the possibility they killed some pre-order with this battle video.