Space Wolves codex invalid before it even drops

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**Unit1126PLL**

Wayniac wrote:
While I realize this is not a big deal, I do find it a little funny how quickly people will defend a lack of basic proofreading. It's unprofessional, regardless of if it is a big deal or not, yet it's constantly excused.

Not sure anyone is excusing it mate. It's bad, and unprofessional, through-and-through. So what? GW is an unprofessional company, news at 11. Also in the news, water is wet and iron is not wood.

If "professionalism" is a major stick-in-the-mud point for you, then perhaps hobby wargaming in general is a bad idea.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Wayniac wrote:
While I realize this is not a big deal, I do find it a little funny how quickly people will defend a lack of basic proofreading. It's unprofessional, regardless of if it is a big deal or not, yet it's constantly excused.

Have you been a professional proofreader?

This one is obviously a huge mistake (and at least one they're rectifying), but basic errors still happen even with the big stuff like New York Times all the way down to your local newspaper.

**Kanluwen**

Wayniac wrote:
While I realize this is not a big deal, I do find it a little funny how quickly people will defend a lack of basic proofreading. It's unprofessional, regardless of if it is a big deal or not, yet it's constantly excused.

From what's being said, it's not a case of proofreading being an issue.

They went to print with a concept, then later on it got expanded. Don't know how or why but it happened.
Since English copies go to print a fair amount of time in advance of localized versions, they won't have them but by the time they started printing the localized versions they'd get the expanded stuff but the English versions already printed would not have it.

**Xenomancers**

Wolves getting special treatment as always. SW traits not strong enough so they make a hotfix to give them buffs.

Space marine codex virtually unplayable for a whole year - nerfs in each chapter approved.

Go Wolfy McWolfermurderface! I think everyone is just constantly high at GW - it's the only thing that makes sense. Standard GW.

**Stux**

Wayniac wrote:
While I realize this is not a big deal, I do find it a little funny how quickly people will defend a lack of basic proofreading. It's unprofessional, regardless of if it is a big deal or not, yet it's constantly excused.

You're right that it's unprofessional, I'm not arguing that. I'm sure internally someone is getting a stern talking to over this.

What I take issue to is people trying to claim the GW staff don't give a crap and are all wringing their hands watching the money roll in.

They are gamers like us, they are good people.

The hyperbole is unreal.

**wuestenfux**

The pace with which GW releases new produces or updates products is rather high atm.
This might be one reason for this fault. They mentioned play testing. I doubt that over the years GW did a lot of play testing.

**Grimtuff**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
What's with the clickbait title?

"One page in a codex is updated. CODEX IS INVALID!"

I was expecting a "Codex is invalid" thread to have something to do with how it's 'invalid for competitive play' or how it's 'not allowed for matched play'.

This is silly. Yes, a single page had to be rewritten, and was done so for free and at no cost to you, and then distributed digitally so you could have a look.

OP is technically correct, especially if you believe some of the tripe that comes out the mouths of certain people here. Remember, the internet community is just a minor wedge of of 40k fans and the majority don't even know what a computer is. So using that bs logic then the majority of SW players picking up the codex on saturday have an invalid product that been updated on a medium they don't use. Right?

**Marmatag**

This just further begs the question: WHY SELL PRINT CODEXES AT ALL?

Digital rules subscription. Searchable rules. Why we no has?

**Unit1126PLL**

Grimtuff wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
What's with the clickbait title?

"One page in a codex is updated. CODEX IS INVALID!"

I was expecting a "Codex is invalid" thread to have something to do with how it's 'invalid for competitive play' or how it's 'not allowed for matched play'.

This is silly. Yes, a single page had to be rewritten, and was done so for free and at no cost to you, and then distributed digitally so you could have a look.

OP is technically correct, especially if you believe some of the tripe that comes out the mouths of certain people here. Remember, the internet community is just a minor wedge of of 40k fans and the majority don't even know what a computer is. So using that bs logic then the majority of SW players picking up the codex on saturday have an invalid product that been updated on a medium they don't use. Right?

XD ok, you win.

Marmatag wrote:This just further begs the question: WHY SELL PRINT CODEXES AT ALL?

Digital rules subscription. Searchable rules. Why we no has?

They do for AOS. I have no idea why not for 40k but it's a good idea.

**Kanluwen**

Unit1126PLL wrote:

Marmatag wrote:This just further begs the question: WHY SELL PRINT CODEXES AT ALL?

Digital rules subscription. Searchable rules. Why we no has?

They do for AOS. I have no idea why not for 40k but it's a good idea.

AoS doesn't give you stuff like this as part of the app. Warlord Traits, Enclave/Regiment/Chapter rules, etc are all in the army books or paid content.

**pm713**

Marmatag wrote:
This just further begs the question: WHY SELL PRINT CODEXES AT ALL?

Digital rules subscription. Searchable rules. Why we no has?

Some people like print codexes....

**Unit1126PLL**

Kanluwen wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:

Marmatag wrote:This just further begs the question: WHY SELL PRINT CODEXES AT ALL?

Digital rules subscription. Searchable rules. Why we no has?

They do for AOS. I have no idea why not for 40k but it's a good idea.

AoS doesn't give you stuff like this as part of the app. Warlord Traits, Enclave/Regiment/Chapter rules, etc are all in the army books or paid content.

Right but you can buy the digital books there, they're kept nice and organized and in a format the app can read without having to hunt for a 3rd Party App that probably has advertisements, and you can even download free stuff like warscrolls for unsupported units and armies. Forge World is flawlessly integrated, and you can read most of the relevant rules for enemy units right there on the app.

And paid content is fine, that's the point. Digital rules subscription isn't expected to be free, but at least you know you've the latest & greatest without having to coalesce 50 different pdfs/printouts and hope your 3rd party software can open GW's 40k epubs without an error.

**Polonius**

phydaux wrote:
"We don't even know if it's the designer's fault. Someone might have just sent an early version of the document in error."

But that's just it - It IS the Designer's fault. There has to be SOMEONE who says "I'm the one responsible for 8th Ed being a quality product."

8th Ed is a major revision from previous editions - AP system, Armor Penetration, Wound Table, Initiative in melee, all majorly changed. OK, fine.

3rd Ed was a major revision, too. And 3rd Ed had ONE GUY who was "The Game Designer." His name was Jervis. And a couple of years after 3rd was released Jervis was []i]FIRED[/i].

People remember that, and now NO ONE at GW wants to be "The Game Designer" because if the game turns into a total Dog's Breakfast then it will be their job on the line. So now we have cock-ups a plenty and people saying "Awe, someone should have caught that..." when there IS NO "someone."

Would you really be happier knowing who was at fault? I assure you, nobody would get fired over this, aside from perhaps a dedicated QA manager or final editor.

Frankly, you seem to be catastrophizing an error. 8th edition is a quality product. It has flaws, which nearly all quality products do. If you really feel that this makes space wolves, or 8th edition, or all GW stuff, completely unplayable, that is your right as a consumer, but I don't think that attitude will get a lot of traction here.

**Grimtuff**

pm713 wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
This just further begs the question: WHY SELL PRINT CODEXES AT ALL?

Digital rules subscription. Searchable rules. Why we no has?

Some people like print codexes....

Indeed, I need something to read when I'm on the bog.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Grimtuff wrote:
OP is technically correct, especially if you believe some of the tripe that comes out the mouths of certain people here. Remember, the internet community is just a minor wedge of of 40k fans and the majority don't even know what a computer is. So using that bs logic then the majority of SW players picking up the codex on saturday have an invalid product that been updated on a medium they don't use. Right?

Food for thought- if you can financially support a this insanely pricey hobby with $35.00 little individual plastic men, it might be time to invest in something like a computer or an updated phone- it's 2018, it's practically becoming an essential part of functional adult life to have some means of accessing the internet. PRIORITIES.

And this page is a problem that can be resolved by going to a local library and paying 25 Cents for a printout.

I'm really starting to become convinced that this hobby is full of people that will dig up any excuse and do mental ninjutsu to find a way to complain about something that could easily be resolved by any rational, reasonable, and mature teenager- why an adult struggles with it, I don't know.

**Grimtuff**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
OP is technically correct, especially if you believe some of the tripe that comes out the mouths of certain people here. Remember, the internet community is just a minor wedge of of 40k fans and the majority don't even know what a computer is. So using that bs logic then the majority of SW players picking up the codex on saturday have an invalid product that been updated on a medium they don't use. Right?

Food for thought- if you can financially support a this insanely pricey hobby with $35.00 little individual plastic men, it might be time to invest in something like a computer or an updated phone- it's 2018, it's practically becoming an essential part of functional adult life to have some means of accessing the internet. PRIORITIES.

And this page is a problem that can be resolved by going to a local library and paying 25 Cents for a printout.

I'm really starting to become convinced that this hobby is full of people that will dig up any excuse and do mental ninjutsu to find a way to complain about something that could easily be resolved by any rational, reasonable, and mature teenager- why an adult struggles with it, I don't know.

Mate, I agree with you. Look around in several threads and you'll see the same excuse of "Oh the internet and 40k forums/social media are just a minor part of the loads of people in this hobby. The majority don't even go on the Internet."

Someone actually did the maths on here a few years back- it's pure male bovine excrement. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/520064.page

**Valentine009**

phydaux wrote:
The Space Wolves codes doesn't even hit the streets until this Friday, but it's already out of date. GW has ALREADY changed how some mechanics will work. See below:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/21/20th-aug-updated-space-wolves-warlord-traitsgw-homepage-post-2/

Why do we give this company our money? It seems like everything they do is half-assed. If someone told me that there is NO ONE working for the company with the tile of "40k Game Designer" and the responsibility of developing and releasing a coherent & cohesive set of game rules then I would not be surprised.

If someone said "All of 8th Ed was a beta test, but GW couldn't be arsed to hire playtesters so they just sold the beta version retail" then I would not be surprised.

In fact the only thing that would ever surprise me if if GW released a quality product that could attract customers on its merits alone.

I had intended to buy the SW codex this Friday, and paint my new models as Space Wolves. As of this morning I intend to use that money to buy cheeseburgers instead.

Holy overreaction... seriously dude? Take a few deep breaths.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Grimtuff wrote:
Mate, I agree with you. Look around in several threads and you'll see the same excuse of "Oh the internet and 40k forums/social media are just a minor part of the loads of people in this hobby. The majority don't even go on the Internet.

Yeah, at this point if someone doesn't find out about the Errata sheet, and "they can't do internets machine" is the reason?

1- Your FLGS owner is clueless
2- Everyone you play with sucks for not letting you know
3- Your TO that doesn't make sure you're using it sucks
4- Your opponents suck for not noticing you're using the wrong stuff
5- How the HELL did you manage a pre-order?

**IronBrand**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
Mate, I agree with you. Look around in several threads and you'll see the same excuse of "Oh the internet and 40k forums/social media are just a minor part of the loads of people in this hobby. The majority don't even go on the Internet.

Yeah, at this point if someone doesn't find out about the Errata sheet, and "they can't do internets machine" is the reason?

1- Your FLGS owner is clueless
2- Everyone you play with sucks for not letting you know
3- Your TO that doesn't make sure you're using it sucks
4- Your opponents suck for not noticing you're using the wrong stuff
5- How the HELL did you manage a pre-order?

The LGS here offers pre-orders on GW products as I'm sure many others do but the other points are all valid.

**Marmatag**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
OP is technically correct, especially if you believe some of the tripe that comes out the mouths of certain people here. Remember, the internet community is just a minor wedge of of 40k fans and the majority don't even know what a computer is. So using that bs logic then the majority of SW players picking up the codex on saturday have an invalid product that been updated on a medium they don't use. Right?

Food for thought- if you can financially support a this insanely pricey hobby with $35.00 little individual plastic men, it might be time to invest in something like a computer or an updated phone- it's 2018, it's practically becoming an essential part of functional adult life to have some means of accessing the internet. PRIORITIES.

And this page is a problem that can be resolved by going to a local library and paying 25 Cents for a printout.

I'm really starting to become convinced that this hobby is full of people that will dig up any excuse and do mental ninjutsu to find a way to complain about something that could easily be resolved by any rational, reasonable, and mature teenager- why an adult struggles with it, I don't know.

They probably struggle with it for the same reason GW struggles with the concept of digital codex rules, and list building apps.

GW is the one telling people to buy print codexes.

You can't get upset at people for doing what they're supposed to do, which is buy and use book-based rulesets.

The argument that we need to supplement the rules with a computer kind of invalidates the need to even have a codex in the first place. "I like something to read in the <insert here>" so take your damn phone, you already need it for a comprehensive ruleset.

**Tibs Ironblood**

How dare they make a mistake and do their best to fix it before the product is released. Those fiends!

**Adeptus Doritos**

Marmatag wrote:

They probably struggle with it for the same reason GW struggles with the concept of digital codex rules, and list building apps.

GW is the one telling people to buy print codexes.

You can't get upset at people for doing what they're supposed to do, which is buy and use book-based rulesets.

The argument that we need to supplement the rules with a computer kind of invalidates the need to even have a codex in the first place. "I like something to read in the <insert here>" so take your damn phone, you already need it for a comprehensive ruleset.

I mean, at the end of the day you're right about the list building app. I can't fathom why this hasn't been a thing for a while now.

But it's one piece of paper, and the masses are upset about it. Yeah, it's kind of a bonehead mistake- but when you get down to brass tacks, there could have been one of hundreds of ways this went to print with the wrong pages. It's not like some guy got to the last sentence yesterday, hit 'print books', and then just went home to sleep while the books were being cranked out and loaded into trucks.

Maybe I'm just annoyed. Since this Space Wolf Codex dropped, the online world has been nothing but screaming and whining. Might be better to tune it out.

**ClockworkZion**

In this thread we project negative assumptions about a company based on their correction of a printing error to ensure their product is playable instead of left unplayable.

Seriously, what is the point of this thread other than to stir up the pot and get angry over what is basically a minor mistake that is being corrected instead of being left alone like they would have done in past editions?

And I love the claim that GW isn't doing play testing in the edition where they actually thank the playtesters for each book in said book.

**Tibs Ironblood**

ClockworkZion wrote:

And I love the claim that GW isn't doing play testing in the edition where they actually thank the playtesters for each book in said book.

Nope no play testing it's all a lie. All their internal testers and guys at FLG are all paid actors to just say they play test. All the people at GW you see playing the game are actually well made cardboard cut outs.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Tibs Ironblood wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:

And I love the claim that GW isn't doing play testing in the edition where they actually thank the playtesters for each book in said book.

Nope no play testing it's all a lie. All their internal testers and guys at FLG are all paid actors to just say they play test. All the people at GW you see playing the game are actually well made cardboard cut outs.

They might not playtest WELL, but they're still doing it. That's definitely a step above how it used to be.

Plus thankfully this codex looks to be semi-functional as a standalone Codex. I wish Scouts were better (they still don't have Vet statlines!) but I think there's some interesting stuff to work with.

**ClockworkZion**

Tibs Ironblood wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:

And I love the claim that GW isn't doing play testing in the edition where they actually thank the playtesters for each book in said book.

Nope no play testing it's all a lie. All their internal testers and guys at FLG are all paid actors to just say they play test. All the people at GW you see playing the game are actually well made cardboard cut outs.

Does that make Duncan a bit of left over Imperial Knight sprue sprayed with ultramarine blue that gets waggled in front of the camera?

**IronBrand**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tibs Ironblood wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:

And I love the claim that GW isn't doing play testing in the edition where they actually thank the playtesters for each book in said book.

Nope no play testing it's all a lie. All their internal testers and guys at FLG are all paid actors to just say they play test. All the people at GW you see playing the game are actually well made cardboard cut outs.

Does that make Duncan a bit of left over Imperial Knight sprue sprayed with ultramarine blue that gets waggled in front of the camera?

Clearly he was cast in blue plastic not sprayed with ultramarine blue and it's more of a jiggle than waggle.

**Elbows**

I clicked on the thread knowing exactly what it was going to be.

1) Yes, GW has abysmal editing, and it's likely they have no one hired on as a professional, technical editor. It isn't a crime, it's just lazy.

2) If this upsets you that much, you probably need to look into other parts of your life and what's going on - it's generally not a good sign.

3) If you "hate" this so much, you need to quit playing the game. It's having a negative impact on you, and that should not happen with a hobby.

**Reemule**

Marmatag wrote:
This just further begs the question: WHY SELL PRINT CODEXES AT ALL?

Digital rules subscription. Searchable rules. Why we no has?

I have exalted your post once, and wish I could exalt it many more times. I've not owned a print book since the release of PDF rules. I know some people want print and bully for them, but lets keep to allowing all us good people to have perfect Dex's.

-Ed

**Banville**

What store managers should do is download the pdf, print it out and make sure that anyone who buys a copy of the codex is given a hard copy of the new stuff with a proper explanation.