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I have to say this every time someone brings it up. An app for rules is the most damaging format imaginable. You are not paying to own the game rules, you are paying for access. Access that can be changed at a moment's notice and the information contained therein is subject to change as well.

FFG thinks this format will save X-Wing, but it will end that game on release. The first time you show up to a game store and check your app and realize your list got nerfed overnight and you have absolutely no way to recall that information, you will realize why you needed a physical copy.

Warhammer, fantasy or 40k, is far too complex and expensive to allow that sort of thing. It's bad enough having to rethink your army every few years, just imagine what that will be like when every Tom Dick and Harry with a rules suggestion is able to flood the app with errata requests!

I get where digital propenents are coming from. But I don't think people realize that by allowing digital rulesets they are giving up property rights. You buy a book, you own it forever and no one can take it from you. An app? You signed the contract to use it when you agree to the TOS, if GW wants to delete your codex off your phone, they can and will.

I'm actually surprised at the poll results. I thought it'd be closer to 50/50 on print vs ebook. Makes me feel better to know I'm in good company

Game books - I need them to hard copy so they are easily referenced not someoone trying to show people stuff on his tiny phone screen.

I also have no smart phone and absolutely no interest in having one. I have a basic phone for work calls and thats it..

Black Library - depends on the book - some i get as ebooks, some as paper, some both.

 Galef wrote:
I'm actually surprised at the poll results. I thought it'd be closer to 50/50 on print vs ebook. Makes me feel better to know I'm in good company

I'm actually not surprised. I think if you ran this same poll on some of the big FB pages, you would see the results flipped.

Reemule wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I'm actually surprised at the poll results. I thought it'd be closer to 50/50 on print vs ebook. Makes me feel better to know I'm in good company

I'm actually not surprised. I think if you ran this same poll on some of the big FB pages, you would see the results flipped.

Because Facebook would target the poll at users who had a bias towards whichever result the person paying for the poll wanted.

I had to vote for a "mix" due to buying some digital ones in the past, but I largely stick to dead tree in the long run. Digital is great for portability, but it's not as easy to flip back and forth between pages in, suffers from requiring electricity to work and usually means you have to be extra careful with your copy so you don't end up dropping it.

Basically paper is more friendly for actual games while digital is better if you're just wanting to read through portions of the book (or go cover to cover) on the commute to work, or quickly look something up while out of the house.

Personally I stopped buying codices last edition and pirate alongside use 3rd party sources. I've yet to get a single codex based rule wrong so far in 8th and offer $20 to the people I play with if they catch me making a mistake so it's worked out well for me. The reason I stopped buying codices is because of the price. It's too much for what it provides and at some point it becomes invalid with point changes and rule adjustments so why bother? I'll take that money and put it towards models which will maintain their worth and value far longer and at a higher value than the codex will.

If however there was an option to buy a cheaper rules only codex on a digital format to just have it on my phone or tablet yeah I would buy that (thus actually giving them money) for $20 or $25. The majority of us never go anywhere without our phones and it' not hard to keep a charger in the car or bring one in the store with you to plug into the wall if need be.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Reemule wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Print for me. I don't want to buy a super expensive device that has to be charged just so I can have a screen big enough. And what if it runs out of space for more books? Do I have to get a second device? No thanks. Ebooks are not cheap enough compared to hard copies to merit that investment, not to mention being more inconvenient than hard copies

But my main issue is the ease in which I can access a rule. I have never met a person in real life that can scroll to a rule on a device faster than I can flip to the page.
And I have tested it, sadly. I'm usually on the page before they've even unlocked heir device.

-

You can buy a Amazon 7 inch able, plenty big to read on, for $49. And its got enough memory to hold every codex and novel ever printed about 40K and Age of sigmar. And a battery that should easily last 8 hours, and a extra external battery for another $10-$20 that would make it almost impossible to run short on battery even at the longest tournament, or slow play game.

Please lets not get too far in to hyperbole on the cost/battery.

Flipping, you might be right. If you have the book with you to flip too..

Nooooope. GW loves their Epub format for rules, and guess which format does not work on the Kindle?

Check out Calibre.

For me games of WH40K are a non-digital medium. I want a hardback rulebook and codex. However if GW make updates then I want those as an app. That's why I use BattleScribe too.

 darkcloak wrote:
I have to say this every time someone brings it up. An app for rules is the most damaging format imaginable. You are not paying to own the game rules, you are paying for access. Access that can be changed at a moment's notice and the information contained therein is subject to change as well.

FFG thinks this format will save X-Wing, but it will end that game on release. The first time you show up to a game store and check your app and realize your list got nerfed overnight and you have absolutely no way to recall that information, you will realize why you needed a physical copy.

Warhammer, fantasy or 40k, is far too complex and expensive to allow that sort of thing. It's bad enough having to rethink your army every few years, just imagine what that will be like when every Tom Dick and Harry with a rules suggestion is able to flood the app with errata requests!

I get where digital propenents are coming from. But I don't think people realize that by allowing digital rulesets they are giving up property rights. You buy a book, you own it forever and no one can take it from you. An app? You signed the contract to use it when you agree to the TOS, if GW wants to delete your codex off your phone, they can and will.

Oh, please. There are these things called screen shots. And it’s not like they do get changed often or without prior notice.

And what are you going to do when someone spills their beer or fruit punch drink on your brand new codex? I stopped bringing my physical copies to games for that reason, BTW. A copy of a list sitting on my phone in my shirt pocket doesn’t get stuff spilled all over it.

 Stormonu wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
I have to say this every time someone brings it up. An app for rules is the most damaging format imaginable. You are not paying to own the game rules, you are paying for access. Access that can be changed at a moment's notice and the information contained therein is subject to change as well.

FFG thinks this format will save X-Wing, but it will end that game on release. The first time you show up to a game store and check your app and realize your list got nerfed overnight and you have absolutely no way to recall that information, you will realize why you needed a physical copy.

Warhammer, fantasy or 40k, is far too complex and expensive to allow that sort of thing. It's bad enough having to rethink your army every few years, just imagine what that will be like when every Tom Dick and Harry with a rules suggestion is able to flood the app with errata requests!

I get where digital propenents are coming from. But I don't think people realize that by allowing digital rulesets they are giving up property rights. You buy a book, you own it forever and no one can take it from you. An app? You signed the contract to use it when you agree to the TOS, if GW wants to delete your codex off your phone, they can and will.

Oh, please. There are these things called screen shots. And it’s not like they do get changed often or without prior notice.

And what are you going to do when someone spills their beer or fruit punch drink on your brand new codex? I stopped bringing my physical copies to games for that reason, BTW. A copy of a list sitting on my phone in my shirt pocket doesn’t get stuff spilled all over it.

What are you going to do if your nice reader takes a tumble onto the floor or a has something dropped on it by accident? Both versions have pros and cons but lets not pretend the battery powered version is superior just because some digital devices are liquid resistant.

I'd have to say that Readers are Cheap. And upgrades are cheap. And if that reader does take a tumble, I'll buy another and pull the Dex off the cloud and I'm 100% restored.

If your collection of Dex are stolen from your car, or borrowed permanently from that one kid at the store who just never came back in...

I really got to say Books have advantages, but the idea that the reader's cost is a factor isn't a book advantage.

In this thread; you can't prove an opinion (thankfully).

I have enough electronics in my life, and I don't need them at the game table. I have a fully capable smart phone, and while on one of them I keep backup PDFs of codices for checking stuff, I generally never take my phone out during a game unless i'm taking pictures.

I don't even use my physical codex either, I just have it on hand. Everything I need is on a couple laminated cheat sheets. The codex is just there if someone wants to read it, or double check (or if I stumble into something on my cheat sheet I suspect is an error or a typo).

I do not buy digital products from GW because the pricing is prohibitive and insulting. But that's what GW chooses to price their products at. They obviously sell quite a few.

Reemule wrote:
I'd have to say that Readers are Cheap. And upgrades are cheap. And if that reader does take a tumble, I'll buy another and pull the Dex off the cloud and I'm 100% restored.

If your collection of Dex are stolen from your car, or borrowed permanently from that one kid at the store who just never came back in...

I really got to say Books have advantages, but the idea that the reader's cost is a factor isn't a book advantage.

Except someone is more likely to be using an ipad over some $20 generic tablet. Sure an ipad isn't expensive in the grand scheme of things but if it breaks you're not going to be happy about it. You won't just shrug, pull out your phone, order a replace and tell the person that broke it not to worry about it. I'd wager the majority of people with codices on their tablets obtained them through alternative means which can skew the prices.

Ultimately it just comes down to what someone finds more convenient and if they're willing to pay the cost of that convenience though.

Personally I stopped buying codices last edition and pirate alongside use 3rd party sources.

Wow. Everybody should be doing that so the people working on the books can finally go home and enjoy flinging their golden Ferraris over the cliff with a trebuchet.

I only buy electronic books when available. I like that the e-Books get updated automatically rather me having to pay for the updates separately like your do with printed books. Also, it’s a huge space saver, and I can read them anywhere at anytime.

SJ

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
I have to say this every time someone brings it up. An app for rules is the most damaging format imaginable. You are not paying to own the game rules, you are paying for access. Access that can be changed at a moment's notice and the information contained therein is subject to change as well.

FFG thinks this format will save X-Wing, but it will end that game on release. The first time you show up to a game store and check your app and realize your list got nerfed overnight and you have absolutely no way to recall that information, you will realize why you needed a physical copy.

Warhammer, fantasy or 40k, is far too complex and expensive to allow that sort of thing. It's bad enough having to rethink your army every few years, just imagine what that will be like when every Tom Dick and Harry with a rules suggestion is able to flood the app with errata requests!

I get where digital propenents are coming from. But I don't think people realize that by allowing digital rulesets they are giving up property rights. You buy a book, you own it forever and no one can take it from you. An app? You signed the contract to use it when you agree to the TOS, if GW wants to delete your codex off your phone, they can and will.

Oh, please. There are these things called screen shots. And it’s not like they do get changed often or without prior notice.

And what are you going to do when someone spills their beer or fruit punch drink on your brand new codex? I stopped bringing my physical copies to games for that reason, BTW. A copy of a list sitting on my phone in my shirt pocket doesn’t get stuff spilled all over it.

What are you going to do if your nice reader takes a tumble onto the floor or a has something dropped on it by accident? Both versions have pros and cons but lets not pretend the battery powered version is superior just because some digital devices are liquid resistant.

I actually did drop the last iPad I had and cracked the darn glass (though not at a game). My post was primarily directed at those who think tablets and such are tools of the Chaos Gods. They're not. They're just another tool with a different set of problems. I won't get rid of my books any time soon because I love sitting and reading them, but there are advantages to having all your books in 1.5 lb package - as long as you remember to charge it.

For armies that I play regularly I try to get a hold of a paper copy, it speeds things up so much once you tab it properly or memorize pages. I prefer novels though on my tablet, I find that a lot more convenient when commuting and traveling.

I still prefer physical books. I like the for collecting reasons (I'm the same with D&D), but I also just like having a physical book to hold in my hands when I read.

Having said that, I still keep the free electronic basic rules handy for searching.

The second I found out that the Enhanced Editions were updated to match errata, I switched over. I also live a good distance away from a store, so downloading them is easier them going out or ordering online.
The format isn't super amazing (it's kinda condensed) but with the bookmark function I can find my units and rules super easy. That and the rules section is separate from the fluff section so you can zoom over really quick and see 8 or so pages at glance to find the unit/rule you need.

One issue electric books btw has is it makes bit harder to flip over books. With 40k armies having generally 3, sometimes even 4(wonder if more...well chapter approved could be 5th) codexes how quick is it to change between? I know my kindle is kinda slow opening up new book but as novels I don't switch all the time never been bothered by that.

I always buy print, but the way FAQs and updates are being handled, I would seriously consider digital copies for the future.