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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Reaper no longer punishes units of 10 and is harder to achieve.
No more scoring multiple secondaries when killing on big model.
Dreads and carnifexes are now eligible for BGH.

What do you think? Good / bad / indifferent? What will your list changes be?



   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

Good changes all around except for big game being 7 wounds. 8 is universally dreadnought level which I think is more appropriate where 7 can catch some characters even. Also don't love marked for death having a PW of 7+ as even a base GK or plague marine squad would qualify.

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Made in us
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





Ohio

I like them. All around solid imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 buddha wrote:
Good changes all around except for big game being 7 wounds. 8 is universally dreadnought level which I think is more appropriate where 7 can catch some characters even. Also don't love marked for death having a PW of 7+ as even a base GK or plague marine squad would qualify.

BGH would only effect things like daemon princes and the like as far as characters go. Which is fine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/23 20:18:38


 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





I can see why no-one takes Celestine in ITC events...
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Reaper needed a huge rework. I'm glad with what they've done with it.

All in all it seems solid. But i need to do more playtesting.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

A.T. wrote:
I can see why no-one takes Celestine in ITC events...


Theres a ton of units, and very good units, (Like Carnifexes) that nobody takes on ITC events because the secondaries severely punish them.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Galas wrote:
A.T. wrote:
I can see why no-one takes Celestine in ITC events...


Theres a ton of units, and very good units, (Like Carnifexes) that nobody takes on ITC events because the secondaries severely punish them.


Actually until recently Carnifexes were not punished literally at all. I ran 3 for this very reason.

And, honestly, big game hunter definitely hurts them.

What i'll probably do is drop down to 2, and find the points for Biovores.

Yeah, 2 of them give up big game, and 2 tyrants do as well, but that means you have to kill all 4 of those things to get your max points? Easier said than done.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Galas wrote:
A.T. wrote:
I can see why no-one takes Celestine in ITC events...


Theres a ton of units, and very good units, (Like Carnifexes) that nobody takes on ITC events because the secondaries severely punish them.


Yeah. but Kingslayer is very clearly written to SPECIFICALLY punish Celestine. What other <8 wound character can give up all 4 secondary points by themselves, even if they're not the warlord? I'd still take her and just accept that I'm starting 4-0 but it's laughably unfair.


 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




They are good changes, but still suffer from the fundamental flaw of ITC missions: building purely to kill can still get you 2/3 of max points and is much more efficient than going for objectives. Killing units should be a means to an end not (except rarely) the end itself.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





ERJAK wrote:
 Galas wrote:
A.T. wrote:
I can see why no-one takes Celestine in ITC events...


Theres a ton of units, and very good units, (Like Carnifexes) that nobody takes on ITC events because the secondaries severely punish them.


Yeah. but Kingslayer is very clearly written to SPECIFICALLY punish Celestine. What other <8 wound character can give up all 4 secondary points by themselves, even if they're not the warlord? I'd still take her and just accept that I'm starting 4-0 but it's laughably unfair.


It's also quite rewarding for guillman, and for any knights that are made into characters, necron characters that ressurect, etc
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





greyknight12 wrote:They are good changes, but still suffer from the fundamental flaw of ITC missions: building purely to kill can still get you 2/3 of max points and is much more efficient than going for objectives. Killing units should be a means to an end not (except rarely) the end itself.


I agree. I generally like ITC, but that's my one complaint in general. Between secondaries being usually achieved by destruction of enemy units, and half the primary being for destruction of enemy units, I feel that too much is awarded for destroying the enemy. Ideally, there's be no points for enemy destruction, I think.

blaktoof wrote:

It's also quite rewarding for guillman, and for any knights that are made into characters, necron characters that ressurect, etc


Guilliman has more than 8 wounds. Basically, the clause is for Necrons and Celestine. Not that that's a problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/25 05:10:42


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't like ITC champion missions in general, but this is surely a step in the right direction for them.

Reaper fix was necessary, it created dumb situations where all infantry squads decided that they need a mortar...

Gangbuster gone is also a good thing, that secondary alone punished terrificantly a lot of builds.

The introduction of butcher's bill instead gives you a secondary that punishes MSU builds.
   
 
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