Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean the OP is like super wrong on all accounts, but naming armies that don't have codices or proper FW entries isn't exactly fair.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean the OP is like super wrong on all accounts, but naming armies that don't have codices or proper FW entries isn't exactly fair.

Are you suggesting that FW brings out a proper rework for those armies?
Because it certainly does not look like that.

Edit: Even in regards to codex factions:
Necrons and Grey knights seem and are way worse off then SW.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean the OP is like super wrong on all accounts, but naming armies that don't have codices or proper FW entries isn't exactly fair.

Are you suggesting that FW brings out a proper rework for those armies?
Because it certainly does not look like that.

Edit: Even in regards to codex factions:
Necrons and Grey knights seem and are way worse off then SW.

It'll take FW a while I admit. They're going through some changes right now.

Also yeah the more I've been playing Necrons the more I've been getting frustrated. However, Grey Knights don't count towards the discussion as we've all just been playing them wrong per Reece, and we had a super smart player on this forum who found out about how awesome Crowe is.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean the OP is like super wrong on all accounts, but naming armies that don't have codices or proper FW entries isn't exactly fair.

Are you suggesting that FW brings out a proper rework for those armies?
Because it certainly does not look like that.

Edit: Even in regards to codex factions:
Necrons and Grey knights seem and are way worse off then SW.

It'll take FW a while I admit. They're going through some changes right now.

Also yeah the more I've been playing Necrons the more I've been getting frustrated. However, Grey Knights don't count towards the discussion as we've all just been playing them wrong per Reece, and we had a super smart player on this forum who found out about how awesome Crowe is.

Half those FW armies can consider themselves to be lucky if they exist by the end of 8th anymore.
Especially Elysians and R&H.
I sincerly hope that was a joke in regards to the GK's.

 beir wrote:
The Space Wolves Codex Sucks.

I'm not talking about competitive power level. I mean that it sucks from a fluff point of view compared to where we left off in 7th edition. By the time the War Zone Fenris book came out, we were given formations that reflected the unique fighting style of each of the Great Companies. We had a large, varied set of relics (12 in total, double what we have now) and psychic powers (30 total from 5 different disciplines). Formations could be used to make your army feel like an Iron Wolves armored column, a Blackmanes shock troop force, or an elite company of the Great Wolf himself.

Now, we feel more like vanilla marines than ever before. I know some people on this forum think that SW should just be part of the base SM codex, but if GW is going to sell me a whole different book and make me wait months for it, why does it feel like we're taking several steps back from last edition? What were we waiting for? I don't think it should've taken them so long to copy/paste the SM codex and add 3-4 pages of stratagems, warlord traits, and relics. They didn't even bother painting up a 'Primaris Wolf Priest', whatever that is (it certainly doesn't look like a Primaris Apothecary or Chaplain). What does a 'Primaris Rune Priest' look like? A baby blue librarian? No way.

Looking through the codex, the only new painted models they show are 5 Intercessors, 5 hellblasters, 5 reivers, a redemptor dreadnought and 3 aggressors. I would've appreciated some tips on converting the bland primaris stuff to fit into my army better.

The fluff section has 3 tiny paragraphs on primaris marines in the SW timeline section. That's it. They added some unit descriptions, but no fluff about how the rest of the chapter views primaris, how they integrated into the great companies, etc.

I can't help but be very underwhelmed by this codex. It feels like I paid $40 for 3 pages at the back beyond what I already had in my index and one of those pages was a misprint.

 beir wrote:
The main argument people are making in this thread against my point is that 'it's as good as the other codices'. Well, maybe all of the 8th edition codices suck then.

At the very least, the SM subfaction codices are bad compared to the non-subfaction books.

If the argument is 'you shouldn't complain because it's as good as Blood Angels and Dark Angels' I don't buy it - they deserved better as well.

Blood Angels should've gotten warlord traits and relics for their successor chapters and some successor-specific stratagems.

Dark Angels should've gotten additional relics and warlord traits that were specific to Deathwing and Ravenwing at the least.

If you were to take away the fact that SW is a subfaction of SM, count the amount of rules content in this codex and compare it to any other non-subfaction codex, we got less. So did BA and DA. Seriously, just roll the SM subfactions into a book together next time. At least then they could justify a full-price book.

As for GW apologists saying 'you should be thankful you got anything at all!', why? What kind of Stockholm syndrome crap is that? Give me a break.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 beir wrote:
The main argument people are making in this thread against my point is that 'it's as good as the other codices'. Well, maybe all of the 8th edition codices suck then.

At the very least, the SM subfaction codices are bad compared to the non-subfaction books.

If the argument is 'you shouldn't complain because it's as good as Blood Angels and Dark Angels' I don't buy it - they deserved better as well.

Blood Angels should've gotten warlord traits and relics for their successor chapters and some successor-specific stratagems.

Dark Angels should've gotten additional relics and warlord traits that were specific to Deathwing and Ravenwing at the least.

If you were to take away the fact that SW is a subfaction of SM, count the amount of rules content in this codex and compare it to any other non-subfaction codex, we got less. So did BA and DA. Seriously, just roll the SM subfactions into a book together next time. At least then they could justify a full-price book.

As for GW apologists saying 'you should be thankful you got anything at all!', why? What kind of Stockholm syndrome crap is that? Give me a break.

We have CC units like Wulfen and TWC as well as Long ranged units like Aggressors, Inceptors, Hellblasters. We have all the old units plus Intessesors with great weapon choices, we have reivers that can traverse any terrain etc. which is good for certain missions like cities. If you can't make a competitive list with that then you have the problem, its not the codex.

 vaklor4 wrote:
If you don't like it, go play Horus Heresy or 7th edition, whining won't solve your complex.

 beir wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 beir wrote:
The main argument people are making in this thread against my point is that 'it's as good as the other codices'. Well, maybe all of the 8th edition codices suck then.

At the very least, the SM subfaction codices are bad compared to the non-subfaction books.

If the argument is 'you shouldn't complain because it's as good as Blood Angels and Dark Angels' I don't buy it - they deserved better as well.

Blood Angels should've gotten warlord traits and relics for their successor chapters and some successor-specific stratagems.

Dark Angels should've gotten additional relics and warlord traits that were specific to Deathwing and Ravenwing at the least.

If you were to take away the fact that SW is a subfaction of SM, count the amount of rules content in this codex and compare it to any other non-subfaction codex, we got less. So did BA and DA. Seriously, just roll the SM subfactions into a book together next time. At least then they could justify a full-price book.

As for GW apologists saying 'you should be thankful you got anything at all!', why? What kind of Stockholm syndrome crap is that? Give me a break.

We have CC units like Wulfen and TWC as well as Long ranged units like Aggressors, Inceptors, Hellblasters. We have all the old units plus Intessesors with great weapon choices, we have reivers that can traverse any terrain etc. which is good for certain missions like cities. If you can't make a competitive list with that then you have the problem, its not the codex.

I'm not talking about competitive list building at all.

Pancakey wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
If you don't like it, go play Horus Heresy or 7th edition, whining won't solve your complex.

Feel the love for GW. If you don’t like the product YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I'm the first to point out when GW are taking a dump on us, but I have yet to hear a cohesive and logical reason for why this codex sucks. He says there is no new lore with Primaris, yet there is new lore with Primaris and how they integrate with current Rout. There are no Wolfy Primaris, yes GW can't realese everything you want on your time schedule, they are a business. Convert, which is what I do. We will get Primaris wolfy versions of our own when they release our unique models. Plus from a lore point of view its barely been 200 years since the Indomitus crusade, chapters haven't even had time to see if these new Primaris even work under their own forces as if they are going to bring in Primaris and from day one say you are bearclaw aggressors, they shove new recruits like blood claws and say go have at it, in for no reason at all. They have to have time to try out new Primaris units with new tactics other than original versions.

 vaklor4 wrote:
I'm not being a fanboy for GW, far from it in fact. I'm one of the guys boycotting the purchase of their products until next year over the forgeworld crap.

But whining won't fix a codex, and it won't get you your dream codex. If you prefer 7th edition, play 7th. Don't tell people their edition and codexes are inferior.

In my opinion, stripping down the psychic powers, formations and play styles is a GOOD thing. Make your own play style, don't wait for GW to cater to your snowflake division.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I'm the first to point out when GW are taking a dump on us, but I have yet to hear a cohesive and logical reason for why this codex sucks. He says there is no new lore with Primaris, yet there is new lore with Primaris and how they integrate with current Rout. There are no Wolfy Primaris, yes GW can't realese everything you want on your time schedule, they are a business. Convert, which is what I do. We will get Primaris wolfy versions of our own when they release our unique models. Plus from a lore point of view its barely been 200 years since the Indomitus crusade, chapters haven't even had time to see if these new Primaris even work under their own forces as if they are going to bring in Primaris and from day one say you are bearclaw aggressors, they shove new recruits like blood claws and say go have at it, in for no reason at all. They have to have time to try out new Primaris units with new tactics other than original versions.

Also, there is a Space Wolves upgrade kit. That's about as far as i'll ever probably see it go, but as far as I can tell, primaris space wolves are supported.

Karol wrote:
Not a SW player, but isn't the problem with the primaris in their codex, not the fact that they are in it, but that GW gave a stupid explanation why they took them in? Guys that did play SW here told me, I know not the best kind of an argument, that SW gene seed works only with fenrisian human. Cawls SW primaris would either have to be ultramarine geneseed bearers, or die durning the proces of implanation. Same with Primaris Officers,wolf priests are picked out of Long Fangs by other priests, there is no way for a 100year old primaris to become a wolf priest. Rune Priest spend 50 fenrisian years as skalds, so there would be no way for a primaris psyker to be old enough to leave the novitate to become a full fledged priest. Plus a Priest would have to take a primaris in as a pupil,because they only take people in through co optation.
From what people say about the SW fluff here and at my store. It looks like the codexs fluff was writen by someone who didn't knew much about SW fluff, was told to implement primaris in to the codex no matter what, and just wrote stuff he or she thought to be "cool". It is like a fanfiction made legal by GW, or the last jedi.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Isn't that just the problem with Primaris in general, though?

You have a society that's notably suspicious of new technology and new things and always on the lookout for corruption, but who then suddenly welcome Primaris marines with open arms and don't ask questions about their dodgy origins 'cause you can't copyright 'space marine'.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I'm not being a fanboy for GW, far from it in fact. I'm one of the guys boycotting the purchase of their products until next year over the forgeworld crap.

But whining won't fix a codex, and it won't get you your dream codex. If you prefer 7th edition, play 7th. Don't tell people their edition and codexes are inferior.

In my opinion, stripping down the psychic powers, formations and play styles is a GOOD thing. Make your own play style, don't wait for GW to cater to your snowflake division.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I'm the first to point out when GW are taking a dump on us, but I have yet to hear a cohesive and logical reason for why this codex sucks. He says there is no new lore with Primaris, yet there is new lore with Primaris and how they integrate with current Rout. There are no Wolfy Primaris, yes GW can't realese everything you want on your time schedule, they are a business. Convert, which is what I do. We will get Primaris wolfy versions of our own when they release our unique models. Plus from a lore point of view its barely been 200 years since the Indomitus crusade, chapters haven't even had time to see if these new Primaris even work under their own forces as if they are going to bring in Primaris and from day one say you are bearclaw aggressors, they shove new recruits like blood claws and say go have at it, in for no reason at all. They have to have time to try out new Primaris units with new tactics other than original versions.

Also, there is a Space Wolves upgrade kit. That's about as far as i'll ever probably see it go, but as far as I can tell, primaris space wolves are supported.

Whats the FW crap?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

First off, the issue is trademarks, not copyrights. And that was solved by officially claiming "Adeptus Astartes" as a trademark to fix the issue. Primaris Marines seem to take their name from the fact that they have a Primarch organ implanted into them.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

First off, the issue is trademarks, not copyrights. And that was solved by officially claiming "Adeptus Astartes" as a trademark to fix the issue. Primaris Marines seem to take their name from the fact that they have a Primarch organ implanted into them.

Copyrights and trademarks are largely indistinguishable to the layperson so when I'm around laypeople I use the layterm 'copyright' to cover all aspects of IP.

Good catch though, officer. Write it down in your notebook.

Whether Adeptus Astartes works or not remains to be seen. Space Marine used to have a TM after it, too. A claim means nothing.