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This whole thread reminds me of that SNL sketch "Lowered Expectations"

What were you expecting, a good book?

Although I am happy that it appears they may have released a codex after Tyranids that isn't flatly superior like all the others which followed them.

 Marmatag wrote:
This whole thread reminds me of that SNL sketch "Lowered Expectations"

What were you expecting, a good book?

Although I am happy that it appears they may have released a codex after Tyranids that isn't flatly superior like all the others which followed them.

It's a good codex in terms of balance, it's just poor if you wanted a dozen plus pages of model pictures (something that not even the Vanilla codex managed to do, despite their wider array of paint schemes than the wolves). It's even poorer if you were the one person who misses formations but that's such a minority in the game anymore I was shocked to even see someone claim that they should have come back in any form.

The lore and hobby sides of the books needs some more expansion, but I feel like we'll be getting more of that going forward now that the basic ground work for the armies is set and no one is left waiting for an entire edition just to get a codex for their army to use.

 beir wrote:
So many people in this thread totally missing my point. I was never talking about competitive power level. It was the second sentence.

I suppose it's true that most people only read headlines.

Nah we know that. I agree with you - this is the case for every space marine codex though.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
This whole thread reminds me of that SNL sketch "Lowered Expectations"

What were you expecting, a good book?

Although I am happy that it appears they may have released a codex after Tyranids that isn't flatly superior like all the others which followed them.

It's a good codex in terms of balance, it's just poor if you wanted a dozen plus pages of model pictures (something that not even the Vanilla codex managed to do, despite their wider array of paint schemes than the wolves). It's even poorer if you were the one person who misses formations but that's such a minority in the game anymore I was shocked to even see someone claim that they should have come back in any form.

The lore and hobby sides of the books needs some more expansion, but I feel like we'll be getting more of that going forward now that the basic ground work for the armies is set and no one is left waiting for an entire edition just to get a codex for their army to use.

Maybe. I mean Genestealer Cults don't have a codex. Are they getting one? maybe a supplement of some kind?

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Formations were never coming back though. It's not space wolf hate, it's people trying to point out your expectations were not realistic and are counter to GW game design.

Formations did come back as stratagems. The Linebreaker formation from 7th came back as a stratagem, to name one example (that I don't think anyone really wanted that much). There are many more examples from different codices.

That's not really a formation, that was a unit bonus if you took three of something.

A battle demi company was a formation. Taking three Vindicators in one unit to get a slight bonus was not.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
That's not really a formation, that was a unit bonus if you took three of something.

A battle demi company was a formation. Taking three Vindicators in one unit to get a slight bonus was not.

There were many datasheets/formations in 7th that were smaller scale than a full battle demi company. The battle demi company was the 'decurion' for SM. The linebreaker squadron was a formation (i.e. a set number of units that, when taken as a group, gave you some special rules as a bonus). Librarius conclave (which I'm glad didn't come back) was a formation. The Wyrdstorm Brotherhood was a formation and sort of came back as the 'Living Storm' stratagem in this codex.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
That's not really a formation, that was a unit bonus if you took three of something.

A battle demi company was a formation. Taking three Vindicators in one unit to get a slight bonus was not.

No, he's right, there are stratagems that have taken the name of formations.

The problem is these aren't very good, because it requires a minimum number of units to be used. So, one of your linebreaker vehicles dies and the stratagem is gone. It sounds good but in practice these aren't used for a reason.

But, I do agree that space marines can be largely fixed with better stratagems.

 beir wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Formations were never coming back though. It's not space wolf hate, it's people trying to point out your expectations were not realistic and are counter to GW game design.

Formations did come back as stratagems. The Linebreaker formation from 7th came back as a stratagem, to name one example (that I don't think anyone really wanted that much). There are many more examples from different codices.

Know what also came back as a stratagem? Some equipment (T'au stimulant injectors). Seriously, just because thing A had a set name in one edition is no reason to complain that it's something different in another. People have spent pages and pages telling you how irrationally you are acting, and you double down. I seriously think you're just trolling.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 beir wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Formations were never coming back though. It's not space wolf hate, it's people trying to point out your expectations were not realistic and are counter to GW game design.

Formations did come back as stratagems. The Linebreaker formation from 7th came back as a stratagem, to name one example (that I don't think anyone really wanted that much). There are many more examples from different codices.

Know what also came back as a stratagem? Some equipment (T'au stimulant injectors). Seriously, just because thing A had a set name in one edition is no reason to complain that it's something different in another. People have spent pages and pages telling you how irrationally you are acting, and you double down. I seriously think you're just trolling.

Holy gak, what are you talking about? I don't care what they get turned into now.

I don't expect formations to come back. I think the new CP system is much better. I want the flavor of some of my old favorite formations to show up somewhere. I liked the cool, fluffy things they added to games that are gone now.

What makes me sad isn't if the book is competitive or not, what makes me scratch my head are the point tweaks, and weapon changes here and there.

Blizz dreads are essentially not as good as they use to be, and I think they went up in points a tad. The Axe got changed to be -1 instead of +1 attack. I don't know why. I'd rather it do one thing really, really well. 4++ is good too, but not the same.

Wolf lord on mount going up when the jump pack is better at this point.

The little fenrision wolves going up a couple of points, not sure on the reasoning.

-1 to hit within 6 inches strat being 3cp? Ouch.

Warp charge increase on +1 cover, why tho??


These changes only bother me when comparing to other books of course.The imperial knight book is something brutal with that Castellan, it's strats are cheap and easily used in plenty with a guard battalion. You could in theory use a guard battaltion with the space wolves but its not as efficient.


Anyway thats the ugly, The good:

Wulfen Dreads, two heavy flamers, hell yes.
Cata and Tartaros options, yes please.
Long fangs with plasma are the wolves knees
Lone Wolf Strategem
Psychic powers are fun.
Power fists on my Wolf priest holy hell yes
Logan down in points
Bjorn down in points
Cheaper shields on Calvary
2+ armor on logans slay (Shouldve been a given to be fair)
Wulfen. Just Wulfen in general.
The relics, 2 of them particularly.
Paying patronage to the young Brand.

Not a bad release though!

 beir wrote:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 beir wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Formations were never coming back though. It's not space wolf hate, it's people trying to point out your expectations were not realistic and are counter to GW game design.

Formations did come back as stratagems. The Linebreaker formation from 7th came back as a stratagem, to name one example (that I don't think anyone really wanted that much). There are many more examples from different codices.

Know what also came back as a stratagem? Some equipment (T'au stimulant injectors). Seriously, just because thing A had a set name in one edition is no reason to complain that it's something different in another. People have spent pages and pages telling you how irrationally you are acting, and you double down. I seriously think you're just trolling.

Holy gak, what are you talking about? I don't care what they get turned into now.

I don't expect formations to come back. I think the new CP system is much better. I want the flavor of some of my old favorite formations to show up somewhere. I liked the cool, fluffy things they added to games that are gone now.

Then I need to refer you to the initial page and its responses - this was repeatedly addressed, no need to drone on and on about it. I also find it funny that you call others "triggered" for responding as such, when clearly you're the one with the chip on your shoulder here.

"Warp charge increase on +1 cover, why tho?? "

Because that power was nuts at its old WC.

 KingCorpus wrote:

These changes only bother me when comparing to other books of course.The imperial knight book is something brutal with that Castellan, it's strats are cheap and easily used in plenty with a guard battalion. You could in theory use a guard battaltion with the space wolves but its not as efficient.

Knights and custodes codex aren't the problem, neither is there strategums. They work fine qhen your paying 160 points to 250 points or more per CP(pure knights list) similar for Custodes it when they are given 5CP for sub 200 points that the issue's start.

There strateguns are costed for 1 CP per 160 to 300 point not 1 CP per 40 points that IG pay(before farming).

 KingCorpus wrote:
W
Paying patronage to the young Brand.

I've not been able to find this homage BTW where is it?

BrianDavion wrote:

 KingCorpus wrote:
W
Paying patronage to the young Brand.

I've not been able to find this homage BTW where is it?

Page 134.

You know what would suck? Your sub-faction getting a codex apart from the parent faction and your two iconic units, the units that the faction is visibly identified by.....receive no stratagems.
Then on top of that, to make use of most of the new codex you have to invest in "new" units.

I wonder whom this happened to?

Table wrote:
You know what would suck? Your sub-faction getting a codex apart from the parent faction and your two iconic units, the units that the faction is visibly identified by.....receive no stratagems.
Then on top of that, to make use of most of the new codex you have to invest in "new" units.

I wonder whom this happened to?

Not as much as a entire Racial Faction not yet getting a codex (Orks) whilst a subfaction of a subfaction - Imperium/Marines/Space Wolves getting a Codex first....

 Ghaz wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 KingCorpus wrote:
W
Paying patronage to the young Brand.

I've not been able to find this homage BTW where is it?

Page 134.

ahh very nice.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Table wrote:
You know what would suck? Your sub-faction getting a codex apart from the parent faction and your two iconic units, the units that the faction is visibly identified by.....receive no stratagems.
Then on top of that, to make use of most of the new codex you have to invest in "new" units.

I wonder whom this happened to?

Not as much as a entire Racial Faction not yet getting a codex (Orks) whilst a subfaction of a subfaction - Imperium/Marines/Space Wolves getting a Codex first....

Well played. Russ would be proud.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Table wrote:
You know what would suck? Your sub-faction getting a codex apart from the parent faction and your two iconic units, the units that the faction is visibly identified by.....receive no stratagems.
Then on top of that, to make use of most of the new codex you have to invest in "new" units.

I wonder whom this happened to?

Not as much as a entire Racial Faction not yet getting a codex (Orks) whilst a subfaction of a subfaction - Imperium/Marines/Space Wolves getting a Codex first....

Well played. Russ would be proud.

Nah If Russ was a Ork player he'd head over to the GW HQ, climb the building, stick his head in the CEO's window and scream "I WANT ME WAAAAAGH AND I WANTS IT NOW YE PONSY GIT!"

Yea but who cares about Orks? GW?

 beir wrote:


No, most of my complaints were about lack of flavor/diversity and lack of painted and converted model photos of new units in the book.

You mean the Wulfen Dread? Which is literally just repurposed parts from the existing SW dread kit? It's not a new kit. All the other "new" stuff is existing kits. Are you just complaining they're not in there in SW colours?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 beir wrote:


No, most of my complaints were about lack of flavor/diversity and lack of painted and converted model photos of new units in the book.

You mean the Wulfen Dread? Which is literally just repurposed parts from the existing SW dread kit? It's not a new kit. All the other "new" stuff is existing kits. Are you just complaining they're not in there in SW colours?

We totally need a visual example of how to paint cataphracti terminator armor in space wolf colours man!

 Grimtuff wrote:

 beir wrote:


No, most of my complaints were about lack of flavor/diversity and lack of painted and converted model photos of new units in the book.

You mean the Wulfen Dread? Which is literally just repurposed parts from the existing SW dread kit? It's not a new kit. All the other "new" stuff is existing kits. Are you just complaining they're not in there in SW colours?

If you had read my first post, you would know the answer to this question.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 beir wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Formations were never coming back though. It's not space wolf hate, it's people trying to point out your expectations were not realistic and are counter to GW game design.

Formations did come back as stratagems. The Linebreaker formation from 7th came back as a stratagem, to name one example (that I don't think anyone really wanted that much). There are many more examples from different codices.

Know what also came back as a stratagem? Some equipment (T'au stimulant injectors). Seriously, just because thing A had a set name in one edition is no reason to complain that it's something different in another. People have spent pages and pages telling you how irrationally you are acting, and you double down. I seriously think you're just trolling.

Dude what are you even saying?

The guy said he was upset his favorite flavored formations didn't get turned into stratagems, and then got a response from a couple of people unable to read past an opening sentence trying to counter that with "but formations aren't in 8th/stop complaining about balance!".

If you still haven't worked out what he's saying at this point, it doesn't make him the troll here.



And the fact that this is coming from me should say you something, considering most people know how I feel about whiny power armour players. This is not it. This is just you guys overreacting to something that isn't there.

 beir wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 beir wrote:


No, most of my complaints were about lack of flavor/diversity and lack of painted and converted model photos of new units in the book.

You mean the Wulfen Dread? Which is literally just repurposed parts from the existing SW dread kit? It's not a new kit. All the other "new" stuff is existing kits. Are you just complaining they're not in there in SW colours?

If you had read my first post, you would know the answer to this question.

Do you really need tips on how to make primaris into more space wolfy stuff? I mean we do see some illustrations of primaris space marines, and well.. the way to convert is pretty much the same way to convert anything. take some wolf tails, wolf necklaces and furs and toss em on the model. I was wolfing our my primaris Marines before the codex even hit.

BrianDavion wrote:

 beir wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 beir wrote:


No, most of my complaints were about lack of flavor/diversity and lack of painted and converted model photos of new units in the book.

You mean the Wulfen Dread? Which is literally just repurposed parts from the existing SW dread kit? It's not a new kit. All the other "new" stuff is existing kits. Are you just complaining they're not in there in SW colours?

If you had read my first post, you would know the answer to this question.

Do you really need tips on how to make primaris into more space wolfy stuff? I mean we do see some illustrations of primaris space marines, and well.. the way to convert is pretty much the same way to convert anything. take some wolf tails, wolf necklaces and furs and toss em on the model. I was wolfing our my primaris Marines before the codex even hit.

Do I need it? Probably not. Did I expect it in a codex that really serves no other purpose (considering BattleScribe exists, etc.)? Yes.

One example of GW showing conversions in the past - the SW codex last edition had a wolf priest in terminator armor conversion. They used the skull from the venerable dreadnought kit, something I hadn't even really considered. It was cool to see and inspiring to try and emulate. I wanted something inspirational for the 'Primaris Wolf Priest' and 'Primaris Rune Priest', both of which don't look at all like space wolf units right now. Maybe they added some conversion bits, maybe they painted some runes on the armor, maybe they switched the head of the librarian for another, more SW-styled one, i don't know. That's why I wanted them to show something.

I'm amazed so many people are so willing to defend getting less for your money by flaming me. Why? Because you think I have a sense of entitlement? Everyone should expect more for their money than these 8th edition codices. Especially given how long they took to make this one - just what were they working on?

BrianDavion wrote:

 beir wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 beir wrote:


No, most of my complaints were about lack of flavor/diversity and lack of painted and converted model photos of new units in the book.

You mean the Wulfen Dread? Which is literally just repurposed parts from the existing SW dread kit? It's not a new kit. All the other "new" stuff is existing kits. Are you just complaining they're not in there in SW colours?

If you had read my first post, you would know the answer to this question.

Do you really need tips on how to make primaris into more space wolfy stuff? I mean we do see some illustrations of primaris space marines, and well.. the way to convert is pretty much the same way to convert anything. take some wolf tails, wolf necklaces and furs and toss em on the model. I was wolfing our my primaris Marines before the codex even hit.

The pictures are very helpful! I know in my case I thought the wolf cloaks were bathroom mats so I was going to glue them to the base. Those pics saved me a lot of embarrassment.

So what about all the black legion players who got crapped on 4 editions in a row? How many awesome new units have they gotten? That about a new Abbadon model? His 4 chief lieutenants? The literal arch-villian of the setting has a 25 year old model, paired with 15+year old models for 80% if the army ALONG WITH hot garbage for a legion tactic. But no... having 12 special characters with great roles, greater synergies and, aside from one, very recent models, a great all rounder codex with a host of cheap versatile stratagems isn't enough. Take a look-see at all the things other factions lost, then predictably come back and say that you're still the whipping boy.