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StarHunter25 wrote:
So what about all the black legion players who got crapped on 4 editions in a row? How many awesome new units have they gotten? That about a new Abbadon model? His 4 chief lieutenants? The literal arch-villian of the setting has a 25 year old model, paired with 15+year old models for 80% if the army ALONG WITH hot garbage for a legion tactic. But no... having 12 special characters with great roles, greater synergies and, aside from one, very recent models, a great all rounder codex with a host of cheap versatile stratagems isn't enough. Take a look-see at all the things other factions lost, then predictably come back and say that you're still the whipping boy.

All of those things suck too? Who said SW is the whipping boy?

Jesus, this forum is so filled with people reading what they want into everything. Leave your baggage at the door.

 beir wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:
So what about all the black legion players who got crapped on 4 editions in a row? How many awesome new units have they gotten? That about a new Abbadon model? His 4 chief lieutenants? The literal arch-villian of the setting has a 25 year old model, paired with 15+year old models for 80% if the army ALONG WITH hot garbage for a legion tactic. But no... having 12 special characters with great roles, greater synergies and, aside from one, very recent models, a great all rounder codex with a host of cheap versatile stratagems isn't enough. Take a look-see at all the things other factions lost, then predictably come back and say that you're still the whipping boy.

All of those things suck too? Who said SW is the whipping boy?

Jesus, this forum is so filled with people reading what they want into everything. Leave your baggage at the door.

you're the one who started a post saying the space wolf codex sucks well complaining about stuff we all saw coming.

 Marmatag wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
This whole thread reminds me of that SNL sketch "Lowered Expectations"

What were you expecting, a good book?

Although I am happy that it appears they may have released a codex after Tyranids that isn't flatly superior like all the others which followed them.

It's a good codex in terms of balance, it's just poor if you wanted a dozen plus pages of model pictures (something that not even the Vanilla codex managed to do, despite their wider array of paint schemes than the wolves). It's even poorer if you were the one person who misses formations but that's such a minority in the game anymore I was shocked to even see someone claim that they should have come back in any form.

The lore and hobby sides of the books needs some more expansion, but I feel like we'll be getting more of that going forward now that the basic ground work for the armies is set and no one is left waiting for an entire edition just to get a codex for their army to use.

Maybe. I mean Genestealer Cults don't have a codex. Are they getting one? maybe a supplement of some kind?

GSC and Sisters should be 2019. SoS and Inquisition if we're lucky, but those two might be a ways out before we see them actually get proper support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 beir wrote:

Do I need it? Probably not. Did I expect it in a codex that really serves no other purpose (considering BattleScribe exists, etc.)? Yes.

One example of GW showing conversions in the past - the SW codex last edition had a wolf priest in terminator armor conversion. They used the skull from the venerable dreadnought kit, something I hadn't even really considered. It was cool to see and inspiring to try and emulate. I wanted something inspirational for the 'Primaris Wolf Priest' and 'Primaris Rune Priest', both of which don't look at all like space wolf units right now. Maybe they added some conversion bits, maybe they painted some runes on the armor, maybe they switched the head of the librarian for another, more SW-styled one, i don't know. That's why I wanted them to show something.

I'm amazed so many people are so willing to defend getting less for your money by flaming me. Why? Because you think I have a sense of entitlement? Everyone should expect more for their money than these 8th edition codices. Especially given how long they took to make this one - just what were they working on?

You expected the codex to somehow be more than any of the other codexes (which were a mostly balanced update to the index options that added back many options that went missing when they were made into indexes). No one is really sure why you expected that, but maybe that's because most of us didn't inflate our expectations based on whatever you were basing yours on because I can't find a basis for any of this.

GW has largely moved away from showing off conversions (Khan lost his bike because of it, the Orks lost characters because of it). Is it sad? Honestly yes, but it's another casualty in the fallout that was the Chapterhouse case.

And honestly, GW might not have done anything to those Space Wolf versions of the Primaris characters and expect you to use the base kit for the forseeable future. I'm sure the internet will have some cool ways of fixing the models though. And the internet won't even charge us for it!

It's less defending the book for being less than you expected than pointing out you expected more than anyone else got and it was unrealistic to have such inflated exepectations based on current trends. But keep blaming us for saying the book is just like all the others instead of admitting you wanted more than you should have expected.

Waaaaah. Stop whining and enjoy the fact you have your very own book, dice, datacards, ten thousand Wolf-units and a black library worth of dedicated fluff.

Try playing a vanilla chapter other than fething Ultramarines, resisting the urge to soup, building a fluffy army only to get a single page in the worst codex in 8th, a single special character and some CT that is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Process wrote:
Waaaaah. Stop whining and enjoy the fact you have your very own book, dice, datacards, ten thousand Wolf-units and a black library worth of dedicated fluff.

Try playing a vanilla chapter other than fething Ultramarines, resisting the urge to soup, building a fluffy army only to get a single page in the worst codex in 8th, a single special character and some CT that is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Vanilla Marines didn't even get a special Primaris option the non-codex chapters did. Or an upgrade kit for non-UM chapters. I've started mucking about with decals just because I can't get molded chapter shoulder pads for Fists from GW anymore (on the flipside, now I'm making a Primaris Fists legion so it has some perks I guess). If you're vanilla you're basically just UM with a different paintjob in GW's eyes it feels sometimes.

 Galef wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I think the only "marine" book that could give SW book a run for best well rounded marine book, is death guard.

Since those are your main armies, you must be a happy camper right about now?

You betcha! Plague marines get a bad rep in mathhammer, but they are worlds ahead of any other power armor troop in the game. Super fun to run, and almost as versatile as wolf guard.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bjorn_the_Fell_Handed#Bjorn_the_Fell_Handed:_Dark_Imperium

Bjorn the Fell Handed: Dark Imperium
"I HAVE AWOKEN, IS IT TIME FOR WA-... WERE YOU LOT ALWAYS THIS BIG?"

The_Real_Chris wrote:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bjorn_the_Fell_Handed#Bjorn_the_Fell_Handed:_Dark_Imperium

Bjorn the Fell Handed: Dark Imperium
"I HAVE AWOKEN, IS IT TIME FOR WA-... WERE YOU LOT ALWAYS THIS BIG?"

The Blood Ravens one is still the best one.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Blood Ravens one is still the best one.

“THOSE ARE MY TERMS. AGREE AND I’LL PRETEND NOT TO NOTICE WHAT YOU THIEVING LITTLE BASTARDS HAVE DONE. DEAL?”

7th-edition customization and variety were illusory. If you have 100 options, but 1 is clearly better than the others and everyone takes it, you do not actually have 100 options, you have 1

40K is REALLY bad for false choices.

the_scotsman wrote:

Kurnost wrote:
The_Scotsman, thanks for pointing me towards the stratagem. I'd missed it in my first read through.

Where can I find this Index Flowchart you speak of?

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

Last page.

Anything that *is* in the index, but *isn't* in the codex - be that wargear, or unit - can still be used with the index rules, unchanged.

Personally, I think the Lone Wolf stratagem is way cooler than Lone Wolf the index unit (because it happens organically, in game, a model who is the last survivor of the unit becomes a character and starts doing awesome stuff) but you can still take Lone Wolf the index unit.

Of course gw having deliberately make index worse than codex means index stuff is generally overpriced

tneva82 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Kurnost wrote:
The_Scotsman, thanks for pointing me towards the stratagem. I'd missed it in my first read through.

Where can I find this Index Flowchart you speak of?

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

Last page.

Anything that *is* in the index, but *isn't* in the codex - be that wargear, or unit - can still be used with the index rules, unchanged.

Personally, I think the Lone Wolf stratagem is way cooler than Lone Wolf the index unit (because it happens organically, in game, a model who is the last survivor of the unit becomes a character and starts doing awesome stuff) but you can still take Lone Wolf the index unit.

Of course gw having deliberately make index worse than codex means index stuff is generally overpriced

Unless you are space marines - where basically everything is the same price as it was in the index and a few things got more expensive.

Alcibiades wrote:
7th-edition customization and variety were illusory. If you have 100 options, but 1 is clearly better than the others and everyone takes it, you do not actually have 100 options, you have 1

Then again in practice you saw more variety than now

Martel732 wrote:
40K is REALLY bad for false choices.

Ain't that the truth

Lemondish wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
40K is REALLY bad for false choices.

Ain't that the truth

Basically any game is like this. Theres almost always 1 best build/gear/weapon/class that is optimal and a majority of the player base uses it or tries to get it

Alcibiades wrote:
7th-edition customization and variety were illusory. If you have 100 options, but 1 is clearly better than the others and everyone takes it, you do not actually have 100 options, you have 1

Yes and no. A lot of choices were crap and wouldn't be taken but I find 8th much more obvious in what you should be taking. Army structure in my area is also a lot less varied, with CP chaff batteries along with some heavy hitters being the norm. 7th was bloated as feck but if they where not abused formations and allies allowed a lot more unique lists than today.

tneva82 wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
7th-edition customization and variety were illusory. If you have 100 options, but 1 is clearly better than the others and everyone takes it, you do not actually have 100 options, you have 1

Then again in practice you saw more variety than now

There really wasn't.

 Billagio wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
40K is REALLY bad for false choices.

Ain't that the truth

Basically any game is like this. Theres almost always 1 best build/gear/weapon/class that is optimal and a majority of the player base uses it or tries to get it

Some are way better than others.

Martel732 wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
40K is REALLY bad for false choices.

Ain't that the truth

Basically any game is like this. Theres almost always 1 best build/gear/weapon/class that is optimal and a majority of the player base uses it or tries to get it

Some are way better than others.

Some are even worse

Billagio wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
40K is REALLY bad for false choices.

Ain't that the truth

Basically any game is like this. Theres almost always 1 best build/gear/weapon/class that is optimal and a majority of the player base uses it or tries to get it

No, there's basically this attraction most playerbase's have to latching on to what they percieve as the best way to do something and championing it as "THE" way to do something and thinking every other option scrubby. Usually its something they've seen a better player use or something pub stompy that they and other players of their level struggle to deal with, but higher level players do not. Yet even at the highest level you see them doing different things all the time, and its only after they do so that these same mid level players who were calling it bad yesterday will start parroting it as a great option. Some options are always going to be bad, but never as many as the general player base of a game will have written off first.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
7th-edition customization and variety were illusory. If you have 100 options, but 1 is clearly better than the others and everyone takes it, you do not actually have 100 options, you have 1

Then again in practice you saw more variety than now

There really wasn't.

Remember everyone, 7th was literally the edition of building your list for you. Take these specific models that we just so happen to have a (no discount) bundle for, or don't get your army's special rules.