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Formations.

Psykic phase.

playing against Eldar players who brag about how good they are as tacticians and generals and then place 30 Scatter bikes, Spiders, Wave Serpeants or wraithknights on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohh, or the same thing with Tau players when they brought 3+ riptides to a friendly game or hell a tournament and talk about how great they are at the game and everyone else needs to L2P

4 different crewmen on a tank that all must shoot at the exact same target.

Things I Don't Miss, By Edition:

3rd Edition:
- Rapid Fire Weapons only firing 1 shot at close range if you move, and no shots at long range.

4th Edition:
- Complete loss of "Sweep and Advance". Not to be seen again until 8th edition with Pile-In moves bringing you potentially into new combats.
- Wound allocation for multi-wound units.
- Trying to make Leadership matter by having to make a test to shoot at things further away than the closest target.

5th Edition:
- Wound allocation, again, even though they tried to fix it.
- Getting better shots with blast weapons by having the tiny hole in the middle land on target, and half-strength to the blast everywhere else around it, felt grossly dumb.

6th Edition:
- Strength D weapons. (You hit with a Strength D weapon? Just remove the model unless they roll a 1.)
- The New Psychic Phase. Convoluted mess that it was.

7th Edition: (buckle up, since this was the last we saw of a bunch of maligned mechanics)
- Toe-in-Cover for gargantuan models.
- Broken Formations and Even More Broken Decurions so you could stack multiple free bonuses.
- Invisibility.
- Close-to-closest casualty removal.
- Blast and flamer templates. (I disliked the actual templates, even though I liked the random nature of them, they were just too swingy in that they forced players to always have to be mindful of exactly how spread out their models were, which then made blasts almost impossible to use with any value)
- Difficult terrain slowing everything down.
- Infantry being the worst unit type by a HUGE margin. I think the game is best when played with Infantry. The recent pushing of the power of Super Heavies in the game actually has me upset, because it's making the Infantry not matter much again.
- Battle Brothers and the ally-chart.
- Stomps. Hated stomps.
- Access points, and how people would get mad when my open-topped transports ignored them.
- Fear mechanic. It was pointless in 95% of your games.
- Soul Fire mechanic. It was pointless in 95% of your games.
- Having to find your rules for one unit across 4 books. I get people are getting upset that they have to carry around so much stuff again, but at least that's by your own choice for how you're building your army, and it's always "one unit, one source for rules"+rulebook+faq's. Okay, this is still an issue with there being answers for answers to some generic questions being found in specific FAQ's that aren't your own faction, but hey, it's still better than it was.
- Total loss of GW communication. I'm so glad that's over!
- Skimmers and Bike being the most sought after unit types, due to having access to Jink.
- Hammer of Wrath rules. They were helpful, but the reasoning for timings and how they hit was just... ugh.
- Challenges. They never felt natural. They always felt like you were abusing something, and whomever had the worse character felt like they were in a feel-bad situation where they either lose their character, or the character doesn't even get to fight.
- Vehicle Damage Table. Ever since 3rd this thing was annoying. Which chart? how much to add?
- Superheavies Ignoring the Vehicle Damage Table. So, you finally have something with enough hull points and weapons and whatnot that it's actually going to be interesting if you damage portions of it as it goes down? Great! Now let's make them ignore that.
- Armies just ignoring all the rules of the game. There was way too much of this, where some armies just played a different game than you.
- Scatbikes with Jump-shoot-jump, Obsec, and a movement distance that effectively made them teleport.
- Drop Pods getting more accurate the more stuff there was in the way to mess up a teleport.


Phew... 7th was bad...

7th edition.
See yarium post for many many good reasons that 8th is better

I don't miss blast templates and scatter dice.

- The fact that vehicles could be one-shotted or utterly crippled with a single hit while monstrous creatures only ever lost a single wound and never degraded, because somehow a giant bug getting headshotted with a lascannon seemingly wasn't possible or something. Even GW realized how much better this made MCs and suddenly every new big walker like Dreadknights or fricking Stormsurges weren't vehicles but monsters. It also lead to the god-awful band-aid that was D-weapons
- Dreadnoughts or any close combat vehicle being absolute crap against any sort of monster in close combat, or against most things in general that weren't bog standard infantry that didn't have a hidden fist/claw (which weren't many). Bjorn the Fell-Handed, the most legendary Dreadnought ever that costed close to 300 points and was eating monsters for breakfast in the lore had almost 0 chances against a basic Carnifex, let alone any better MC. Now finally those Dreads can and will trade equal or smash those bugs.
-That vehicles (even walkers on bases) had strict firing arcs to adhere to but even giant monsters that are so massive they would take half an hour to turn around could fire in any direction.
- The old cover system. 4++ saves for Grots and conscripts while Marines got absolutely nothing against anything that wasn't ignoring their entire save. Doesn't make sense and was too all or nothing. What is needed though is more detailed and easily accessible terrain rules (e.g rules for basic archetypes such as forests/ruins/streets/buildings/rivers) and the return of terrain based unit abilities such as the Chimera's status as amphibean vehicle or the Skitarii rangers ignoring negative terrain rules or such.
- The old AP system for the same reason. The granular WHFB system was always much better and I'm so glad we finally got it too.
-Sniper rifles being unable to actually snipe people. Instead they were there to pin things (as if that ever happened) and blink wounds off monstrous creatures (Wut?).
- Morale was utterly pointless and completely ignored by 90% of factions. Now you actually have morale losses in pretty much every game and it's a thing that needs to be kept in mind for almost any army.
- Mechanicus/Skitarii and Guard/Scions having their own codices rather than being combined like they are now. Just why? Especially Scions which had like 4 units + unecessary Commissars.
- Blast templates. A hassle, too random, lots of arguments and slowed the game down massively because everyone was spreading EVERY model out by 2" at all times. Bring back flamer templates though, they never were an issue IMO and are much better than D6 random hits that don't ignore cover (Wut?).
-6th edition fliers. Absolute balance breakers against any army that couldn't bring good AA... which was most of them. -1 to hit is a gazillion times better than only hitting on 6, except for Orks of course (which need a fix for neg. to shooting hit rolls).
- While things aren't even close to perfect now, compared to 8th ed 6th and 7th balance was absolute dog-feth, with many factions having codices from two editions ago and in particular in 7th edition at least half the armies had close to 0 chance against the top armies.

Why are we doing happy clap songs about what we dont miss when this edition is a steaming pile of Tau?

i do not miss going against free models.

gladius detachment bringing an extra few hundred points to a game, tyranids throwing out unending gaunts, and chaos spawning in tons of demons for free from sorcerors.

do not miss str D weapons

do not miss vehicle damage table. in 5th the glancing a land raider forever and never able to destroy them.

 Brutallica wrote:
Why are we doing happy clap songs about what we dont miss when this edition is a steaming pile of Tau?

Oh my, what a well argued post. If you want another "waaah, 8th edition is gak!" circle jerk thread then you are welcome to create one instead of doing off-topic drive by's here ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯.

 Brutallica wrote:
Why are we doing happy clap songs about what we dont miss when this edition is a steaming pile of Tau?

Maybe because it's not as bad as all the Chicken Littles would have us believe? Maybe because, while falwed for sure, it is one of the better editions of the game in its history.

i miss some univeral special rules, and blasts, i really miss blasts, especially the flamer template.
Other than that thank god formations died. Don't get me wrong handled propperly they could've been fairly good. Sadly we got formations which just gave you free points or effects that were broken, turning the 7th edition into a dick measuring contest of who had the better formations.
(bonus points for terrible written formations like the one for helldrakes that did not work propperly)

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

- Blast templates. A hassle, too random, lots of arguments and slowed the game down massively because everyone was spreading EVERY model out by 2" at all times.

I'm somewhat torn. On the one hand, I do quite like having a physical template, which can potentially scatter onto other units if it misses. On the other hand, by the end of 7th, the number of Large Blast Templates being casually thrown around made infantry guard unplayable.

Agreed about the arguments, though I wonder if that could have been solved with a better scatter mechanic.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Bring back flamer templates though, they never were an issue IMO and are much better than D6 random hits that don't ignore cover (Wut?).

Eh? I think it would be a bit weird to scrap blasts but keep flamer templates. Seems like it would be better to buff flamers (e.g. 2d6 but hits can't exceed number of models in the unit, and enemy units can never benefit from Cover against them).

I am in the do not miss flamer templates catigory. oh look your 100 points in flamers is going to absolutely destroy my 1850 in ork boys horde list. and somehow players always had flamers as their special weapons vs my horde orks but melta against nob bikers. (in pickup games not tournaments, with take all comers lists the flamers were less common)

also agree in 8th large blasts everywhere pretty much made infantry useless.

also do not miss the 2x str auto killing multiwound models.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I would say invisibility but it's still alive and well.

Thanks to Alaitoc Hemlocks yeah

templates..... No more drifting templates or arguments if a toe is covered or not.

Do not miss challenges. It was pointless and the stronger your character was the less interesting it was. Hey let my inittiative 10 challenge your nob with PK. I refuse as he is just going to die. Okay he can't make attacks now. It was the most garbage fluufy attempt at a rule that GW had written. So every game I had to choose for my nobs to die or never make attacks. I started downgrading to Big Choppas and then move to no wargear just so that I wasn't wasting points by refusing.

My Powerfist Sarge can't be challenged out!

Granted, he's also hitting with a fraction of the killing power he had in 7th, but still - his squad thinking him a coward if he doesn't go 1-on-1 with a Great Unclean One always struck me as strange.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I am in the do not miss flamer templates catigory. oh look your 100 points in flamers is going to absolutely destroy my 1850 in ork boys horde list. and somehow players always had flamers as their special weapons vs my horde orks but melta against nob bikers. (in pickup games not tournaments, with take all comers lists the flamers were less common)

Sounds to me like you never slapped 15 Burnas in a Battlewagon and gave them a taste of their own medicine. Roll up next to a unit and fire the Brunas from inside the Wagon, place template, realize that mathematically every template has to be in the same place as you have to cover the max amount of models, multiply the amount of hits by 15 and proceed to delete a unit through sheer volume of saves.

Orks could do template shenanigans better than a lot of things.

 iGuy91 wrote:
There are 2 things that I am SO GLAD are gone.

1 - Invisible Rerolling 2+ save Deathstars
2 - Formations giving Arbitrary buffs just for takings specific units.

Oh, right. Invisibility. That was awful.

Though.......overlapping - to hit auras now create situations where orks can simply not hit targets. That needs to be fixed, I think a game-wide rule that natural 6s always hit should be instituted.

5th edition wound allocation was indeed pretty bad.
Many a time I had a unit of genestealers assault something like a tactical squad, and roll a bunch of rends. But too bad they meant almost nothing, as all the rends got stacked on the sergeant or heavy weapons guy, leaving the rest of the squad to just take a bunch of regular armour saves.

It's also one of the many reasons why 5th edition tyranids were bad. They were one of the few armies that had pretty much no way of using the wound allocation mechanics to their own advantage, as every member of their squads had to be equipped identically.



The No Retreat mechanic for fearless units was also fairly awful. It heavily favoured fearless MEQ units over light infantry.
Fearless MEQs might just shrug off a couple of extra armour saves at the end of combat, in the odd occasion where they actually lost. Whereas gaunts tended to always 'lose' combat, even if they dragged down some models vastly more valuable than their own losses. So for them the rule basically meant 'always take double your casualties in close combat'.

Sure it was 'better' than being outright swept and losing the whole unit, but it was still depressing and a miserable mechanic. Particularly when being fearless across the board was supposed to be your armies big bonus to offset their nasty penalties, yet it ended up being worse than ATSKNF, which had the same upside of ignoring being swept, but also allowed marines to happily walk out of a losing combat and automatically act normally the next turn (with a free 3" movement bonus too!).



The old initiative system sucked due to the charging through cover = I1 thing. It was particularly disheartening due to playing an army with generally pretty high initiative across the board, except that they lacked the great and holy frag grenade, meaning that the stat became completely meaningless. No-one was ever stepping out of cover when up against tyranid infantry. So we just had to deal with always punching last.


The old thing where you could only hit a vehicle in close combat on a 6, if it moved more than (I think) 6", was pretty bad too. My army dealt with vehicles by sending giant can openers on legs over to crack them open. First I have to get all the way across the table, and then I can't even hit them, because the clowns are doing donuts in their parking lot. Wouldn't have been so bad if shooting was similarly affected, but nope, only close combat.



I'm pretty happy with 8th. It's the first time since 4th where my army has actually been any good.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:
Why are we doing happy clap songs about what we dont miss when this edition is a steaming pile of Tau?

Oh my, what a well argued post. If you want another "waaah, 8th edition is gak!" circle jerk thread then you are welcome to create one instead of doing off-topic drive by's here ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯.

Sorry my bad, keep on clapping.

Flyers only getting hit by range fire on a natural 6, UNLESS you bought a flipping terrain piece to park your dudes in.

6th edition caused my already wavering interest in the game with my CSM to completely cease. Sold my army off and everything.

8th edition is a hell of a lot better, Vehicles are tougher (as they should be), Flyers are mostly balanced (-1 to hit on them isn't NEARLY as bad), and cover saves aren't stupid anymore.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I am in the do not miss flamer templates catigory. oh look your 100 points in flamers is going to absolutely destroy my 1850 in ork boys horde list. and somehow players always had flamers as their special weapons vs my horde orks but melta against nob bikers. (in pickup games not tournaments, with take all comers lists the flamers were less common)

Sounds to me like you never slapped 15 Burnas in a Battlewagon and gave them a taste of their own medicine. Roll up next to a unit and fire the Brunas from inside the Wagon, place template, realize that mathematically every template has to be in the same place as you have to cover the max amount of models, multiply the amount of hits by 15 and proceed to delete a unit through sheer volume of saves.

Orks could do template shenanigans better than a lot of things.

Then realize that you are playing 7th edition and your battlewagon was not allowed to go faster than 6" if you wanted to flame anything. Unless your opponent was an idiot, you would never get any models under the template.

Burna wagon died with the last codex. Just like everything else that has half-decent in 4th, 5th or 6th. GW made sure you would not be competitive with your pre-codex army.

Flamer template means spacing between models matters, and spacing out infantry at 2" was the least fun part of every edition prior to 8th. The flamer template needs to stay dead just for that reason.

The classic force org chart was pretty restrictive if you wanted to build a themed list. I really like where we are now with rewards for fielding lots of troops, but the option to create a very specialised list if you want

Requiring the opponent's permission to field special characters lol

Constant chart checking!

That being said I really miss the unit stat and weapon summary pages at the backs of books...

“Remove these models from the table, they are counted as casualties” - Jaws of the world wolf, 6th Ed D-weapons, vortex of doom, etc

 Brutallica wrote:
Why are we doing happy clap songs about what we dont miss when this edition is a steaming pile of Tau?

Because it helps to remind people that all the editions before 8th had their own share of problems, and many of the problems people gripe about with 7th also existed in some form in the editions prior to 7th (it's just that formations and Invisibility tend to make people forget everything else). The game has really only had 4 "proper" editions. What we commonly call 4th-7th really really just revisions of 3rd.

 Brutallica wrote:
Why are we doing happy clap songs about what we dont miss when this edition is a steaming pile of Tau?

Well that took longer than normal.

 Brutallica wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:
Why are we doing happy clap songs about what we dont miss when this edition is a steaming pile of Tau?

Oh my, what a well argued post. If you want another "waaah, 8th edition is gak!" circle jerk thread then you are welcome to create one instead of doing off-topic drive by's here ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯.

Sorry my bad, keep on clapping.

So you make a condescending statement with nothing to back it up, and then when challenged attempt to somehow take the high ground? Fantastic.