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Do the calvery bases need to be slotted if putting age of Sigmar calvery on squares? I’m guessing not.

*EDIT*

I have a Dreadlord now. Feel free to recommend both low point builds (700give or take) and higher point builds (1k-2k

Gangland wrote:
Do the calvery bases need to be slotted if putting age of Sigmar calvery on squares? I’m guessing not.

I dont understand your question. Are you asking if you need to buy cavalry bases with slots or without.
It depends on the model but nearly all later edition cavalry were not slotta. GW does sell models that are slotta, and in the new assembly instructions it considers the slotta bar part of the sprue. Lixardmen infantry are a good example of this.

As a rule of thumb if you are buying cavalry bases buy slotless, you can glue on a slotta horse more easily than you can fill a slottabase.

Now for the specifics. Late edition Dark Elf cavalry (Cold One Knight boxset) and (Dark Rider/Warlock boxset) were all slotless, If you source older Dark Riders which were metal on plastic elf steeds you will find they were slotta. I don't know off top of my head whether the plastic fat lizard Cold Ones were slotta. i hated the models and never had any.

*EDIT*

Gangland wrote:

I have a Dreadlord now. Feel free to recommend both low point builds (700give or take) and higher point builds (1k-2k

How if the Dreadlord equipped? If not on a dragon you can use him as a Master for smaller battles. Elf lords are dangerously fragile due to T3 and you MUST heavily invest in item to protect them. This will make them expensive. This is not viable in low points games. Consequently for smaller games you are better with a cheap standoff general who avoids combat, either a budget Master of a budget High Sorceress.

What I figured. I would want bases without slots if putting Sigmar models on squares.

The dreadlord is not mounted. On foot metal model.

How are Cold One Knights? Better than Executioners/Black Gaurd? Thinking of getting a box or two of cold one knights to help beef up my army.

I have always taken Cold One knights in every DE army I ever made, they are my favourite unit. I used to take them in a unit of 12 with a BSB with the hydra banner that gave them all +1 attack, but that no longer exists I’d you are playing 8th.

In 8th I still ran them in a unit of 12 with a BSB and If I was playing 3000pts I would add Malus Darkblade to keep them from going stupid.its quite the points sink and I don’t necessarily recommend it.

You either run them as a large unit with character support, or as a small 5/6 man unit for flanking. But I think chariots are better in this regard.

I think that executioners perform better, but the Dark Elves need at least one unit that can crack heavy armour. That’s either Executioners, Cold One Knights or Kharibdyss.

Black Guard have the problem of being an elite infantry blender in an army of infantry blenders. They cost too much for what they do, and you can find other units that do the exact same thing in Core in the form of witch elves or corsairs. They are a decent unit, but very expensive and fragile.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I have always taken Cold One knights in every DE army I ever made, they are my favourite unit. I used to take them in a unit of 12 with a BSB with the hydra banner that gave them all +1 attack, but that no longer exists I’d you are playing 8th.

In 8th I still ran them in a unit of 12 with a BSB and If I was playing 3000pts I would add Malus Darkblade to keep them from going stupid.its quite the points sink and I don’t necessarily recommend it.

You either run them as a large unit with character support, or as a small 5/6 man unit for flanking. But I think chariots are better in this regard.

I think that executioners perform better, but the Dark Elves need at least one unit that can crack heavy armour. That’s either Executioners, Cold One Knights or Kharibdyss.

Black Guard have the problem of being an elite infantry blender in an army of infantry blenders. They cost too much for what they do, and you can find other units that do the exact same thing in Core in the form of witch elves or corsairs. They are a decent unit, but very expensive and fragile.

Yes this is for very casual 8th edition games. Basically me and 4 other friends who got into fantasy too late and play with what we can get.

I do have 2 cold one chariots and a Hydra. Do those make Knights errelavent or are they still worth taking?

 Orlanth wrote:


How if the Dreadlord equipped? If not on a dragon you can use him as a Master for smaller battles. Elf lords are dangerously fragile due to T3 and you MUST heavily invest in item to protect them. This will make them expensive. This is not viable in low points games. Consequently for smaller games you are better with a cheap standoff general who avoids combat, either a budget Master of a budget High Sorceress.

T4 on a pegasus, with easy access to a 1+ is not that shabby. Either a 1+ re-rollable with charmed shield for the odd cannon shot or a straight up 4++

Re-rolling 1s to wound makes ogre blade a great investment. It's a tough flying beastie that will eat monsters and fighty characters (OTS is a must then).

Avoidance DE was a top tier army because of guys like these.

if you're not adverse to non-GW models then I HIGHLY recommend Raging Hero's. Imo they blow the GW range out of the water for a cheaper price and are by far the best Dark Elf models out there. That is, as long as you are ok with playing an all-female army.

I just got into DE and these are the only models I buy now.
Btw as a new DE player too I really cannot recommend witch elves and Executioners enough. 30 Executioners with Tullaris seem to crush anything they are put against and I would argue that 30-40 Witch Elves with a Cauldron and Okhams mindrazor are possibly the most destructive unit in the game. I used them last game vs's a skilled Lizardman player and they just butchered every single thing in his army list without breaking a sweat

Heres the link to the Dark Elf range: https://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/types?q=Dark%20Elves%20%28DE%20-%20F%29

I'm going to second the opinion on Witch Elves and Executioners. They are just absolutely lethal, especially with a cauldron in the witches.

Supreme Sorceress
Dark Riders
Witch Elves with Cauldron
Executioners
Warlocks

^Thats a competitive army. Fill in the rest with whatever you want,

Gangland wrote:
What I figured. I would want bases without slots if putting Sigmar models on squares.

Slots have nothing to do with the rule system, units use slotted bases if there are bars underr their legs, they dont if glued to their bases by the soles of their feet.

Gangland wrote:

The dreadlord is not mounted. On foot metal model.

Take heavy armour and sea dragon cloak, it is 'standard issue' equipment. This drops you to a 3+ save on foot cheaply without touching your item allowance.

Enchanted shield gives you 1+, Dawnstone makes that rerollable. Go for a ward save otherwise.

If you don't want a shield halberd is a good choice, reroll most misses (later editions) and S5. Otherwise choose a decent magic weapon even +1A OR +1S is good enough.

There are several types of Dark Elf specific item which can be very nasty. This is very much edition dependent.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gangland wrote:


Yes this is for very casual 8th edition games. Basically me and 4 other friends who got into fantasy too late and play with what we can get.

I do have 2 cold one chariots and a Hydra. Do those make Knights errelavent or are they still worth taking?

Take Cold One Knights in single ranked small units. Dont bother with a banner but do take musician and champion. Five or six is fine. It's also fine taking two units of them.

Cold One Knights hit hard being lance cavalry, what sets them apart are the mount attacks, far nastier than horses. Cavalry mounts do not provide supporting attacks, only monsterous cavalry and riders. Due to the high cost of cold one cavalry, and this applies to lizardmen as well it is better to have a single rank as an impact unit supporting infantry blocks. Cold Ones provide good attrition, armour saves are as good as you can hope to get and the attack power is largely maintained over subsequent turns, for one rank only.
Use Cold One Knights in small numbers to bully chaff units, munch lance armed horse units over time, hunt characters or turn the tide of a drawn out infantry combat with a well timed charge. But you cant really tank with them like Empire or Bretonnian knights do.

So sounds like I should focus on Executioners rather than Cold One Knights. (Though maybe I’ll get just 1 box of cold ones).

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I'm going to second the opinion on Witch Elves and Executioners. They are just absolutely lethal, especially with a cauldron in the witches.

Supreme Sorceress
Dark Riders
Witch Elves with Cauldron
Executioners
Warlocks

^Thats a competitive army. Fill in the rest with whatever you want,

Witch Elves are shockingly strong when built right. My opponent was a veteran player and even he was taken aback by the raw damage output of a core unit.
Doomfires are unpleasantly strong to the point of being broken, semi no-risk, mass dice doombolts are so op
Dark riders are good but don't invest too heavily in them, they are juiced up redirectors really.
I actually quite like Morathi over the sorceress vs non-shooty armies, although I will admit you do pay for a lot of her weird, useless items. a potential +8 to casting and access to death, shadow and dark magic is very nice though


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gangland wrote:
So sounds like I should focus on Executioners rather than Cold One Knights. (Though maybe I’ll get just 1 box of cold ones).

go with what you prefer. If you want cold ones then take them, but they will not fulfil the role of monster/armour hunters anywhere near as efficiently as Executioners. I really cannot stress enough how good flat S6 striking at initiative 6 is. Saurus and Chaos warriors crumble like bread in a storm drain vs them. Imo they really need Tullaris though, it almost doubles their damage output

Witch Elves are obscene with the Razor Standard, Cauldron and Cry of War. God forbid putting Mind Razor on them, thats lights out for any unit.

Dark Riders are the best fast cav in the game, and they take up core. I never leave home without at least 2 units of 5. Board control is key.

BaconUprising wrote:
if you're not adverse to non-GW models then I HIGHLY recommend Raging Hero's. Imo they blow the GW range out of the water for a cheaper price and are by far the best Dark Elf models out there. That is, as long as you are ok with playing an all-female army.

I just got into DE and these are the only models I buy now.
Btw as a new DE player too I really cannot recommend witch elves and Executioners enough. 30 Executioners with Tullaris seem to crush anything they are put against and I would argue that 30-40 Witch Elves with a Cauldron and Okhams mindrazor are possibly the most destructive unit in the game. I used them last game vs's a skilled Lizardman player and they just butchered every single thing in his army list without breaking a sweat

Heres the link to the Dark Elf range: https://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/types?q=Dark%20Elves%20%28DE%20-%20F%29

They are very impressive models, but there are a few downsides:

They're very fragile compared to GW.
They frequently have a greasy coating that's difficult to remove. This coating just lets the primer flake off, taking any paint with it. People have said that the more common cleansers really aren't successful at removing this coating either.

 Mmmpi wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
if you're not adverse to non-GW models then I HIGHLY recommend Raging Hero's. Imo they blow the GW range out of the water for a cheaper price and are by far the best Dark Elf models out there. That is, as long as you are ok with playing an all-female army.

I just got into DE and these are the only models I buy now.
Btw as a new DE player too I really cannot recommend witch elves and Executioners enough. 30 Executioners with Tullaris seem to crush anything they are put against and I would argue that 30-40 Witch Elves with a Cauldron and Okhams mindrazor are possibly the most destructive unit in the game. I used them last game vs's a skilled Lizardman player and they just butchered every single thing in his army list without breaking a sweat

Heres the link to the Dark Elf range: https://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/types?q=Dark%20Elves%20%28DE%20-%20F%29

They are very impressive models, but there are a few downsides:

They're very fragile compared to GW.
They frequently have a greasy coating that's difficult to remove. This coating just lets the primer flake off, taking any paint with it. People have said that the more common cleansers really aren't successful at removing this coating either.

Raging Hormones figures are oddly appropriate for Witch Elves, they have the same thing going on. By the time you are done you are better off with GW plastics, more durable and about the same price.

jouso wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:


How if the Dreadlord equipped? If not on a dragon you can use him as a Master for smaller battles. Elf lords are dangerously fragile due to T3 and you MUST heavily invest in item to protect them. This will make them expensive. This is not viable in low points games. Consequently for smaller games you are better with a cheap standoff general who avoids combat, either a budget Master of a budget High Sorceress.

T4 on a pegasus, with easy access to a 1+ is not that shabby.

Still T3 on a Pegasus.
The rider gets the Wounds score of his monstrous mount (if it's higher), not its Toughness.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
if you're not adverse to non-GW models then I HIGHLY recommend Raging Hero's. Imo they blow the GW range out of the water for a cheaper price and are by far the best Dark Elf models out there. That is, as long as you are ok with playing an all-female army.

I just got into DE and these are the only models I buy now.
Btw as a new DE player too I really cannot recommend witch elves and Executioners enough. 30 Executioners with Tullaris seem to crush anything they are put against and I would argue that 30-40 Witch Elves with a Cauldron and Okhams mindrazor are possibly the most destructive unit in the game. I used them last game vs's a skilled Lizardman player and they just butchered every single thing in his army list without breaking a sweat

Heres the link to the Dark Elf range: https://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/types?q=Dark%20Elves%20%28DE%20-%20F%29

They are very impressive models, but there are a few downsides:

They're very fragile compared to GW.
They frequently have a greasy coating that's difficult to remove. This coating just lets the primer flake off, taking any paint with it. People have said that the more common cleansers really aren't successful at removing this coating either.

Raging Hormones figures are oddly appropriate for Witch Elves, they have the same thing going on. By the time you are done you are better off with GW plastics, more durable and about the same price.

some of the range, particularly the demons and Dark Eldar are certainly basement-dweller fetishist creepy but some of the Dark Elf range are decent imo. I've never had any issues with them really

For monstrous mounts you get both toughness and wounds, so Pegasus does give you toughness 4

That’s why chaos aspiring champions are so brutal on their daemonic steeds. They get toughness 5 and 3 wounds.

BaconUprising wrote:

Gangland wrote:
So sounds like I should focus on Executioners rather than Cold One Knights. (Though maybe I’ll get just 1 box of cold ones).

go with what you prefer. If you want cold ones then take them, but they will not fulfil the role of monster/armour hunters anywhere near as efficiently as Executioners. I really cannot stress enough how good flat S6 striking at initiative 6 is. Saurus and Chaos warriors crumble like bread in a storm drain vs them. Imo they really need Tullaris though, it almost doubles their damage output

One box of Cold One Knights is a good investment, because they do something different and look awesome while doing so. Champion and musician, NO standard bearer.

Executioners are very good but no savvy opponent will come near them with a monster, likewise with Witch Elves. You need to come to them. Bolt throwers, hunting chariot, manticore builds are your monster hunters. Executioners work well if you tie down a monster first.

Where Executioners excel is in line fighting. Take whatever line unit is facing you and kill it, quickly. Yes Tullaris is a good investment, but not essential to function. Remember though that all you can do with high strength Executioners you can also do with high rate of attacks and poison from Witch Elves. The good news here is why not take both, it not only makes for a very killy line deployment but it fits the Har Ganeth theme. Dark Elves are a damage output focused army, and these two units, plus the Hydra take it to extremes.

I’ve been trying to avoid witch elves due to the boxes being very expensive and hard to find. And like I stated this army needs not be competitive. I have little to no interest in tournament play. I only play with friends, and for the most part all the armies are either a starter set that’s been slightly expanded or a battalion that’s been slightly expanded.

But it does seem witch elves deserve their high demand and I guess I’ll just have to bite the bullet.

So I will be looking out for Executioners and witch elves. May still get a box or two of the cold one Knights in the mean time.

 Arnizipal wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:


How if the Dreadlord equipped? If not on a dragon you can use him as a Master for smaller battles. Elf lords are dangerously fragile due to T3 and you MUST heavily invest in item to protect them. This will make them expensive. This is not viable in low points games. Consequently for smaller games you are better with a cheap standoff general who avoids combat, either a budget Master of a budget High Sorceress.

T4 on a pegasus, with easy access to a 1+ is not that shabby.

Still T3 on a Pegasus.
The rider gets the Wounds score of his monstrous mount (if it's higher), not its Toughness.

Both. It was errata-ed on the first 8th ed FAQ.

Page 83 – Monstrous Cavalry.
In the second paragraph, replace “All the cavalry rules…with
one exception – monstrous cavalry always use the highest
Wounds characteristic…” with “All the cavalry rules…with
two exceptions – monstrous cavalry always use the highest
Toughness and Wounds characteristics…”

Oh yeah. One more thing I forgot to mention is I picked up a bolt Thrower for the Dark Elves. I’ll get around making a new army list soon as the op is long out of date with what I’m thinking of doing.

Edit

How many witch elves do I need?

Bolt throwers are one of those things you need to take at least 3 of, or don’t take any at all.

You’re most likely only going to have 2 turns of solid shooting before the battlefield is entirely wrapped up in close combat so weight of fire is important.

Once one side starts to break you can start clearing out weakened units if you still have your bolt throwers left but you won’t have proper fire arcs like you do on the first couple turns.

So I’ve acquired a box of Cold One Knights and a box of Executioners. The army is growing.

Gangland wrote:


How many witch elves do I need?

EITHER

1. One box of ten, champion and musician, you can go for a standard if you want to. Deploy them as a small flanking unit and inflict a heavy damage spike on an already engaged target. Vulnerable but highly efficient in destroying an engaged enemy via combat resolution overload. Watch out for stubborn units..

OR

2. Three or four boxes of ten, three is enough, with full command with magic standard and the Altar of Khaine and a Hag. Hellebron is an optional extra but don't skimp on any elements. Use as your main combat block deployed in horde formation, use all the extra rules you can get including extra attacks and the ward save. You will likely win, then bathe in blood while drinking your opponents tears. Watch out for bait units for your girl frenzy. Support with magic and missiles.

I’ll second what Orlanth said. I will however advise against hellbron and against taking the witchbrew. The extra attack that it provides isn’t necessary and you are at -3 to your leadership for berserk rage tests with frenzy. Losing control of your main battle line unit isn’t a good thing. Fantasy is all about board control and elves especially need to fight games on their own terms, not the enemies.

Cry of war is much better. Especially since the cauldron causes terror.

Witchbrew is for the Hag hero. Place her behind the block. She cant see anything to be charge baited If the witch elves charge march move her up into the unit, she need only touch the back rank to get put into the front, with +1A for the unit. Witch elves in horde with altar support dont need the Hag to fight if facing a distractor.

If charged you frenzy normally, if you lose a round of combat the next player turn the Hag joins the unit offering frenzy back without the -3 pursuit test penalty.

A further +1A can be achieved from the cauldron bound spell on the Altar of Khaine.

If it looks like the combat block is near to engaging or will engage its main opponent or the opponent has run out of chaff options then the Hag should join the unit ASAP.

An alternate sneakier trick is to voluntarily charge the Hag hero in a unit at a distractor target. The combat block of Witch elves then test for frenzy normally. This is fully legal as the player can assign an order to charges, volunteer to charge the Hag first, then test to see if the witch elves charge afterwards. This is an emergency solution with its own set of difficulties, but if your anti-chaff is bypassed it might be your last option to keep the witch elves on track.

As a main investment your Witch elves should always be testing on a minimum of Ld9, they are quite stable. More to the point the witchbane makes them look unstable when the ability to distract them away is less than it seems if handled properly. This can be to your advantage.

Any good witch elf alternatives? Cheapest prices are around $60 a box and that is just too much to me.

Avatars of War made some plastic not-witch elves as part of the Warthrone range, they turn up on auction sites from time to time.

Ok so I sat down, laid out all my boxes for Dark Elves again and made a list using what I had. Far more updated from last time. Here is my in progress 2,000 point 8th edition Dark Elf Army list:

Lords: 377pts

Dreadlord - 157pts
-Heavy Armor -Cloak -Shield

LVL 4 Supreme Sorceress - 220pts

Heroes: 95pts

Master (BSB) - 95pts

Core: 565

5 Dark Riders - 80pts

5 Dark Riders - 80pts

15 Corsairs with 2 Hand Weapons - 165pts

10 Dark Shards - 120pts

10 Dark Shards - 120pts

Special: 650pts

10 Executioners - 120pts

Cold On Chariot - 115pts

Cold One Chariot - 115pts

2 Bolt Throwers - 140pts

Hydra - 160pts

Rare: 250pts

5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125pts

5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125pts


I have 63pts to allocate still so feel free to make recommendations. Instead of 10 executioners I can make 15 Black Guards (Although I SHOULD be getting another box that can make both soon. Executioners seem better though). Nothing has been upgraded (given command or anything like that) unless otherwise stated.

Other things I have:

5 Cold One Knights

1 Assassin

1 Sorceress


Things I'm working on:

Witch Elves, Cauldron, and another black gaurd/executioner box or two.

Feel free to double check my math too.