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Gitdakka wrote:
If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.

Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.

Thank you!

Three of my favorite kits to kitbash from are the Devestator Squad, the Assault Squad and the Vanguard Squad. You can create so many interesting hand poses, and action poses with just those three kits!

 Togusa wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.

Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.

Thank you!

Three of my favorite kits to kitbash from are the Devestator Squad, the Assault Squad and the Vanguard Squad. You can create so many interesting hand poses, and action poses with just those three kits!

Glad to hear! I feel I have barely scratched the surface with these kits. I want to buy them again and kitbash even more. I have not even started to use the spare hand poses yet as I get carried away with all the guns and CC weapons.

Gitdakka wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Modellers aren't restricted by the contents of the box. Unless they have a malfunctioning imagination.

Thats a strange thing to state. Can modellers appreciate a good box of miniatures or are they then malfunctioning? Should we all just buy greenstuff and copper wire and make our minis from scratch to be considered worthy hobbyists?


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.

Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.

I agree, but we still have old school Marines, maybe they'll get ridda em maybe they won't. by my way of thinking the best way to enchourage things is buy what you want, if we're still buying tons of old school marines for the modeling options (I know I am) GW will take note of that\. the horus heresy referance IMHO is a good one,Primaris Marines are proably designed to cash in on the popularity of the heresy, and thus use a similer approuch to warfare


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


You also never answered the question regarding the Aura Of Dark Glory vs the Sigil Of Corruption.

in fairness thats not a very good question considering that neither of those where modeling options and where just something you wrote down on your list that it had.

However the same logic applies. If the option is useless, it's useless. Counts-As happens a lot with Marine armies for that reason.

You are still weating the waac googles, in wich case a model is only as good as its rules...
For me the weapons play differently in the game. Flamers, meltas, plasmas, heavy bolters, fists, swords all act differently in the game wich is enough for me to use them all.

If the tournament optimal choice is to put nothing but plasmas on everything because of damage per points scenarios then the choice is there. That however is not how we all play the game. And if the rules was reduced to only one loadout option, it would make the game less compelling to me.

This is a good point, if the game is all about plasma and lascannon type weapons, then why not just reduce the overall cost of making the models and release kits with only these two weapons in them? I have played amazing games with load-outs and units others consider to be garbage rules wise, just by talking with my opponet and taming down the way we both play.

And no, to the person who said I am arguing from a modelers perspective, I am not. I commonly use gravity rifles on my marines, I often put power fists on Sargents, or master crafted bolters on veterans. You would never see a squad of US Marines in real life, all of them carrying the exact same weapon, with identical attachments, with identical skills. Min/Max only exists in the realm of fantasy.


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Gitdakka wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
If you buy a box of tacticals, assult marines and devastators, the options you get are staggering. You can equip your dudes with all kinds of guns and pointy sticks. You can make custom characters with jump packs, thunderhammers, claws, pistols, swords etc to infinitum. Bling dudes out with banners, nades, holy texts and a huge variety of shoulder pads and helmets.

Without waac googles marines are a modellers, collectors and gamers dream come true. I dont see what is compelling with primaris. Their kits dont combine and their rules and bits leave bare bones options for customization. Others may like it but to me they are nowhere near as compelling as the regular marines.

Thank you!

Three of my favorite kits to kitbash from are the Devestator Squad, the Assault Squad and the Vanguard Squad. You can create so many interesting hand poses, and action poses with just those three kits!

Glad to hear! I feel I have barely scratched the surface with these kits. I want to buy them again and kitbash even more. I have not even started to use the spare hand poses yet as I get carried away with all the guns and CC weapons.

A fun thing to do is to get hold of one of the Heavy Bolters from the MK3 marine kit. You can position it on the right hand in just about any way you would want to. Then you can have the marines' left hand holding just about anything, or performing any one of about 5 different hand signals!

danp164 wrote:
I confess I haven;t read much on the Dark Imperium just caught the clip notes that Primaris were under construction for 10k years as a directive from the Girlyman to mech master Belly Crawl and now the king has returned the Primaris have been released to chapters as reinforcements, this is the sum total of my Dark Imperum Lore knowledge, I am ok with this... furious retconning.

From a model perspective however when compared to a regular human model Genestealer cultist for example they look bang on as a massive super soldier. My issue is I know have a squad of 10 intercessors (Thank you warhammer conquest) ad I thought I would add them to my small DW army (Just veteran 2 kill teams atm) but by comparison they make the standard veteran marines look.... um a little... off kilter? So i'm wondering ow others have dealt with it, Hope it grows on you? or just start a full Primaris SM army?

I ask because I'm going to be doing a slow grow league soon with a few new players and I'm wondering whether to double down on a mixed DW army or start full Primaris SM Army...

I've converted Primaris into my normal marines. I have Primaris TWC, Long fangs, blood claws, grey hunters etc. My army now is technically fully Primaris. I only use my old models for APOC games.

 Togusa wrote:
... if the game is all about plasma and lascannon type weapons, then why not just reduce the overall cost of making the models and release kits with only these two weapons in them? ...

Because it isn't? I'd be sad if they pulled those options, I love my Heavy Bolters and Grav Cannons and for every game where I wished I had the extra AP on the LasCannon there's been another where I was glad I had the option to throw six or seven Frag rounds at a target. And in my experience the Plasma Gun (and Plasma Cannon, and all the other special weapons) aren't in a good place for the points right now.

Back on topic, the more I've played the Primaris marines the less the " legionnaire" unit setup bothers me. It does really make me want some more non-plasma, non-bolter based weapon options though. They're just begging for a medium range AutoCannon based unit and something that can make the Heavy Flamer profile work.

(Speaking of weird profiles, has anyone found a reason to use Flame Gauntlet Aggressors? )

The Newman wrote:

(Speaking of weird profiles, has anyone found a reason to use Flame Gauntlet Aggressors? )

Maybe if you're playing Salamanders, they've that stratagem... but probably not even then. They're just way worse and not even cheaper. Another case of Primaris options not really being options because all except one choice are clearly terrible.

 Crimson wrote:

The Newman wrote:

(Speaking of weird profiles, has anyone found a reason to use Flame Gauntlet Aggressors? )

Maybe if you're playing Salamanders, they've that stratagem... but probably not even then. They're just way worse and not even cheaper. Another case of Primaris options not really being options because all except one choice are clearly terrible.

I was curious because on paper the Macro Plasma Blaster being cheaper that the Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon looks like a blatent mistake but in practice dakka mode is better than you'd expect, and I couldn't help wondering if someone had found the Flame Gauntlet had a similar "crap on paper, good in practice" thing going on that I'm just not seeing.

The Newman wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

The Newman wrote:

(Speaking of weird profiles, has anyone found a reason to use Flame Gauntlet Aggressors? )

Maybe if you're playing Salamanders, they've that stratagem... but probably not even then. They're just way worse and not even cheaper. Another case of Primaris options not really being options because all except one choice are clearly terrible.

I was curious because on paper the Macro Plasma Blaster being cheaper that the Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon looks like a blatent mistake but in practice dakka mode is better than you'd expect, and I couldn't help wondering if someone had found the Flame Gauntlet had a similar "crap on paper, good in practice" thing going on that I'm just not seeing.

Nah played against them and even as RG they are easily avoided and still die like marines.
If you had an army that was pure melle damage as an opponent maybe.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
What are the primaris marines who look like they’re farting in mid-air?

Targets. I've always made it a point to kill crappy looking models 1st.
The only models that trump this targeting priority are those I learn my opponents really attached to.

 Crimson wrote:

The Newman wrote:

(Speaking of weird profiles, has anyone found a reason to use Flame Gauntlet Aggressors? )

Maybe if you're playing Salamanders, they've that stratagem... but probably not even then. They're just way worse and not even cheaper. Another case of Primaris options not really being options because all except one choice are clearly terrible.

flamer aggressors are the easy build option, and we wonder why they're crap?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

The Newman wrote:

(Speaking of weird profiles, has anyone found a reason to use Flame Gauntlet Aggressors? )

Maybe if you're playing Salamanders, they've that stratagem... but probably not even then. They're just way worse and not even cheaper. Another case of Primaris options not really being options because all except one choice are clearly terrible.

flamer aggressors are the easy build option, and we wonder why they're crap?

I really don't think that's the reason. If it were, then certainly the stuff from the starter box would not be the flat out best options for both the Intercessors and the Hellblasters.

 Crimson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

The Newman wrote:

(Speaking of weird profiles, has anyone found a reason to use Flame Gauntlet Aggressors? )

Maybe if you're playing Salamanders, they've that stratagem... but probably not even then. They're just way worse and not even cheaper. Another case of Primaris options not really being options because all except one choice are clearly terrible.

flamer aggressors are the easy build option, and we wonder why they're crap?

I really don't think that's the reason. If it were, then certainly the stuff from the starter box would not be the flat out best options for both the Intercessors and the Hellblasters.

heh true, more likely GW just, as always, over estimates the value of flamers.

I think flamers are probably in the worst spot they have ever been. At least in recent years. They used to be low cost and a reasonable counter to a number of things. Sure, what they did could also be mostly done with massed bolter fire (something marine lists can do almost casually) but they had jobs they did, and niches they filled.

Flamers these days don’t bring a lot to the table. 1d6 is not a replacement for the template. 8” range where 9” is a critical limitation on a number of deployment options. Just more S4 hits.

And the aggressors are probably the worst place to mount them. Slow and short ranged, but a bonus for standing stuff. The other build just gets so much more dakka, even the auto-hit of the flamers pales to raw statistics.

I could maybe see using one in a deathwatch squad. He’s mostly there for the buff. But the squad wants to be operating in tight rapid fire range, so he makes for decent charge deterrent.

For normal marines you could stick a squad in a repulsor and go fire bomb things. Expensive, not very efficient, fragile, but probably entertaining.

It needs something to represent wall of fire.

The wording would need some good templating, but basically something let it shoot overwatch fire against any successful charge regardless of range.

There are problems with implementing that into the rules, but with the right wording I don't think it would be insurmountable.

After a successful charge is made against a unit containing models with this weapon, you may immediately shoot with it as if it were the shooting phase. You must target the unit that just charged, but you may ignore whether any units are within 1" of each other for the purposes of the attacks

This wording does two interesting things that might make flamers viable:

1.
In some circumstances you get to shoot the flamer twice against the same charge. You are charging into a wall of fire after all.

2.
You get this bonus attack (though not the normal overwatch attack) when charged even if your unit is already engaged in melee. Which makes fully engaging a unit with flamers extremely difficult.

For Flamers, there's a thread on what should happen to them in Proposed Rules. A lot of ideas come out. Some better than others.

 Crimson wrote:
Just go full Primaris. The range is a bit limited right now, but they will be expanded in the future. If your minimarines are just two squads at this point, it is not a huge loss. I shelved a full, extensively converted marine army and switched to Primaris.

Honestly that's what I'm doing. I actually find painting Primaris a treat, especially when compared to how much of a chore I felt that the Oldstartes were to paint. Their design works well for a lot of tricks (like base > heavy drybrush your highlights > wash/glaze) to speed things up as well. I respect that they aren't for everyone, but they finally got me pulling the trigger on an Imperial Fists army to the point that I want at least a full unit of all the options (and the intent to slowly expand into a Primaris chapter in the future).