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A friend is looking to build a semi-competitive mono Blood Angels list. The focus is primarily Death Company and Devastators currently, but most any blood angel model (except Sanguinary are available).

He also has a lot of bikes and speeders (+ HQ) for Dark Angels (mostly focused and bikes and speeders like mentioned).

Tactics commonly used:
Captain Shield tends to do what he does, jumping around killing high value items.
The other captains babysit dev squads for rerolls and tacs.
The other HQ run with death company for the crazy boosts.

How would you optimize this, noting the Death Company is the primary focus here.
Meta includes:

Orks
Necrons
Chaos Daemons/Death Guard/Thousand Sons.





++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [55 PL, 958pts] ++
Armoury of Baal: 1 additional Relic of Baal, -1 CP

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord
Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun
Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol and boltgun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol and boltgun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol and boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 135pts]
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 135pts]
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 135pts]
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [65 PL, 1041pts] ++
+ HQ +

Chaplain [6 PL, 90pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack
Sanguinary Priest [5 PL, 86pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Jump Pack
The Sanguinor [9 PL, 170pts]

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol and boltgun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Heavy bolter
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol and boltgun

+ Elites +

Death Company [9 PL, 135pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Death Company [9 PL, 155pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul

Death Company [9 PL, 155pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul

++ Total: [120 PL, 1999pts] ++

Tacticals have not really a place in a BA army.
Captains on foot are too slow. Go with smash Captains all the way.
As it stands here in this army, DC can be used more as a counter-charge force.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Tacticals have not really a place in a BA army.
Captains on foot are too slow. Go with smash Captains all the way.
As it stands here in this army, DC can be used more as a counter-charge force.

Did you see that the captains on foot are specifically for the Devestator squads?

What would you replace the tac teams with? What replaces the heavy bolter for horde mulching (orks, nurglings, plaguebearers, etc?)

HB doesnt do much against hordes. You need aggressors. The amount of bolter shots they put out is insane. They can even hurt T5+ targets. A razorback with twin AC is also nice against hordes. Your devs need ML and PC. With hellfire shells and flakk missile you can do 2D3 MW if you have a cherub. Its been confirmed by the SM FAQ codex update. Replace tacs with intercessors or scouts. DC without lemartes isnt a good idea. Replace the sanguinor with him.

valdier wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Tacticals have not really a place in a BA army.
Captains on foot are too slow. Go with smash Captains all the way.
As it stands here in this army, DC can be used more as a counter-charge force.

Did you see that the captains on foot are specifically for the Devestator squads?

Sure. But here I'd consider the Captains also as counter-charge units if the enemy comes close.
A Captain on foot giving merely some rerolls is a waste of points.

 p5freak wrote:
HB doesnt do much against hordes. You need aggressors. The amount of bolter shots they put out is insane. They can even hurt T5+ targets. A razorback with twin AC is also nice against hordes. Your devs need ML and PC. With hellfire shells and flakk missile you can do 2D3 MW if you have a cherub. Its been confirmed by the SM FAQ codex update. Replace tacs with intercessors or scouts. DC without lemartes isnt a good idea. Replace the sanguinor with him.

Something closer to this? (I'm not sure that I think missile launchers are better than Lascannons though... Against T8 only captain smash is really effective. If he had las, wouldn't that be a lot more capable other than the flakk/hellfire strats? (He doesn't use dakka but I will certainly pass on this thread to him at the conclusion)

Also, how does the Cherub let you fire hellfire if you don't have heavy bolters? Would it not be better to go PC, PC, ML, HB? Then you could use both strats for 2d3 mortals?


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [60 PL, 1057pts] ++
+ HQ +
Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 148pts]
. 3x Aggressor
. . 3x Auto boltstorm gauntlets and fragstorm grenade launcher: 3x Auto boltstorm gauntlets, 3x Fragstorm grenade launcher
. Aggressor Sergeant
. . Auto boltstorm gauntlets and fragstorm grenade launcher: Auto boltstorm gauntlets, Fragstorm grenade launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 162pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 162pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 162pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [55 PL, 931pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander Dante [11 PL, 215pts]

Sanguinary Priest [5 PL, 86pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Jump Pack

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Elites +

Death Company [9 PL, 155pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul

Death Company [9 PL, 155pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul

Death Company [9 PL, 155pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul

++ Total: [115 PL, 1988pts] ++

valdier wrote:

Something closer to this? (I'm not sure that I think missile launchers are better than Lascannons though... Against T8 only captain smash is really effective. If he had las, wouldn't that be a lot more capable other than the flakk/hellfire strats? (He doesn't use dakka but I will certainly pass on this thread to him at the conclusion)

The ML is better because its has two profiles, one against high T targets and the other against hordes. And you can use flakk missile against FLY units with the cherub for 2D3 MW. There arent many T8 units in the game. Dont use dante, he is a waste of points. Lemartes is much better for DC.

valdier wrote:

Also, how does the Cherub let you fire hellfire if you don't have heavy bolters? Would it not be better to go PC, PC, ML, HB? Then you could use both strats for 2d3 mortals?

Of course you need HB to use hellfire shells. LC, PC, ML, HB is the way to go for devs. With the cherub you can use either hellfire shells or flakk missile twice for 2D3 MW.

Can I ask, how does it do 2d3?

I assume, fire the missile and use strat, hit on a 2+ with reroll ones from captain. 1d3 mortal. Use the cherub... You've already hit once so it auto does another d3 (because you only roll once, right)?


Revision 3:



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [24 PL, 387pts] ++
+ HQ +

Lemartes [7 PL, 129pts]
Sanguinary Priest [5 PL, 93pts]: Chainsword, Jump Pack, Plasma pistol

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [45 PL, 841pts] ++
+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 151pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 151pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [44 PL, 764pts] ++
+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 111pts]
. 2x Aggressor
. . 2x Auto boltstorm gauntlets and fragstorm grenade launcher: 2x Auto boltstorm gauntlets, 2x Fragstorm grenade launcher
. Aggressor Sergeant
. . Auto boltstorm gauntlets and fragstorm grenade launcher: Auto boltstorm gauntlets, Fragstorm grenade launcher

Aggressor Squad [6 PL, 111pts]
. 2x Aggressor
. . 2x Auto boltstorm gauntlets and fragstorm grenade launcher: 2x Auto boltstorm gauntlets, 2x Fragstorm grenade launcher
. Aggressor Sergeant
. . Auto boltstorm gauntlets and fragstorm grenade launcher: Auto boltstorm gauntlets, Fragstorm grenade launcher

Death Company [9 PL, 155pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul

Death Company [9 PL, 155pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul

Death Company [9 PL, 155pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul
. Death Company Marine: Plasma pistol, Power maul

++ Total: [113 PL, 1992pts] ++

You can use the Cherub

Ok, makes sense. Are there any other changes that can be seen here? I think Power maul over sword is preferable for the T7 things on the field. The few lascannons will really be the only thing to fight DG Tanks (T8)

valdier wrote:
Can I ask, how does it do 2d3?

I assume, fire the missile and use strat, hit on a 2+ with reroll ones from captain. 1d3 mortal. Use the cherub... You've already hit once so it auto does another d3 (because you only roll once, right)?

You have to make a second hit roll, again hitting on 2, re-rolling 1.

I really don't think the captains need the storm sheild. I know that's how people like to run them but they're already rocking a 4++ and you can use the extra points to stick a heavy bolter in those scout squads or even a third smash captain lite.

Would it be useful to diversify your DC weapons a bit? Plasma Pistols aren't bad, but a couple of Hand Flamers and Power Swords/Axes may help a bit.

 p5freak wrote:

valdier wrote:
Can I ask, how does it do 2d3?

I assume, fire the missile and use strat, hit on a 2+ with reroll ones from captain. 1d3 mortal. Use the cherub... You've already hit once so it auto does another d3 (because you only roll once, right)?

You have to make a second hit roll, again hitting on 2, re-rolling 1.

I'm not sure you do actually, it says you make one roll per phase, which means, even if you shot again, you wouldn't make a second roll that phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Would it be useful to diversify your DC weapons a bit? Plasma Pistols aren't bad, but a couple of Hand Flamers and Power Swords/Axes may help a bit.

Yeah, the Maul is kind of a place holder. It's a tough choice because against the current meta, AP-1 is the same as AP -3 for most things. The bonus to strength allows the DC to get S6/7 in some cases. It's definitely one of those meta choices I think.

valdier wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

valdier wrote:
Can I ask, how does it do 2d3?

I assume, fire the missile and use strat, hit on a 2+ with reroll ones from captain. 1d3 mortal. Use the cherub... You've already hit once so it auto does another d3 (because you only roll once, right)?

You have to make a second hit roll, again hitting on 2, re-rolling 1.

I'm not sure you do actually, it says you make one roll per phase, which means, even if you shot again, you wouldn't make a second roll that phase.

Q: How do the Flakk Missile and Hellfire Shells Stratagems
interact with an Armorium Cherub? Are you able to ‘reload’ the
weapon and fire again with the benefit of the Stratagem?
A: Yes.

In view of revision 3, there are too many Scouts for my liking.
Three Scout units should suffice. I'd add more killy units.

 wuestenfux wrote:
In view of revision 3, there are too many Scouts for my liking.
Three Scout units should suffice. I'd add more killy units.

What would you remove? To get the CP to power the list, something would have to go. Thoughts?

I wouldnt drop any scouts. 13 CP is nice to have. Give some of them combat knives and use them as CC units, with red thirst they get +1 to wound, when they charge, or get charged. Spend another CP for the veritas vitae, on a 5+ you get 1CP, when you use a stratagem.

valdier wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
In view of revision 3, there are too many Scouts for my liking.
Three Scout units should suffice. I'd add more killy units.

What would you remove? To get the CP to power the list, something would have to go. Thoughts?

Just not my playstyle.
They can provide board control which seems to be one of the big issues in matched play.
But the impact of the Scouts is usually rather low.
Pfreak's suggestion to equip some Scout units with cc weapon might mitigate their weaknesses.

13 CP in a BA list I think is incredibly necessary with jump captains being able to easily use a half dozen in the first turn alone.

Veritas Vitae is a for sure, that will definitely be in the list.

As for scouts, yeah, the weapons are temporary placeholders and that can be up to that player to decide how they want to use it. (shotguns, bolters, combat knives, etc).

On the use of the Cherub, I definitely agree it allows the strat to be "double tapped" basically. My question/point was, do you have to roll again or is it just an automatic d3 more mortals. Per the wording, it appears to be automatic.

List looks interesting. With DC, bigger units are more effective, giving ability to 'wrap and trap' (to not get shot), also can daisy chain them to ensure you get the buffs from lemartes / captain etc. if support units don't make the charge. Also against gunline armies have the ability to tie up multiple units. With the Descent of Angels strat gives you almost guaranteed charge (97%) when deep striking with lemartes (3d6 rerolling). But you can only use it once per charge phase so a larger unit makes more sense. Without rerolling & 3d6, a 9" charge is only 27%.

Also, drop the special weapons on the DC, esp. plas pistols, go for boltgun (not bolt pistol) & chainsword with a sprinkling of thunder hammers if you want something which hits harder. Weight of dice is what you're looking for.

On a more philosophical note, having a gunline doesn't really suit BA. Yes the mortal wounds are good, yes buffing with a captain works, but a lot of other space marines do it better and it makes no use of our special army trait. Red thirst is the key and it's better to try and maximise it rather than trying to do 2 armies in one (gunline + combat).

Edit: percentages.

On a more philosophical note, having a gunline doesn't really suit BA. Yes the mortal wounds are good, yes buffing with a captain works, but a lot of other space marines do it better and it makes no use of our special army trait. Red thirst is the key and it's better to try and maximise it rather than trying to do 2 armies in one (gunline + combat).

This is a good point.
BA with red thirst is more geared towards cc, its an assault army. Splitting the army into cc and gunline which operate largely independently is not a good army concept.
If you want a gunline, take Ravenguard and add some cc elements for counter charge.

A CC only BA army wont work well. First, because of the 9 charge roll needed (only 27% chance of success). Sure, re-rolls are possible, and the 3D6 charge strat, but still, your chances are not good making most of your charges. The cant deepstrike turn 1 in the opponents deployment zone rule hurts BA even more. Then you would have to charge chaff to get to the juicy targets, leaving your (expensive) chaff killing unit(s) exposed in the open. The opponent could simply fallback and shoot your (expensive) models. You need a gunline to cut holes in chaff units to make gaps for your CC units.

 p5freak wrote:
A CC only BA army wont work well. First, because of the 9 charge roll needed (only 27% chance of success). Sure, re-rolls are possible, and the 3D6 charge strat, but still, your chances are not good making most of your charges. The cant deepstrike turn 1 in the opponents deployment zone rule hurts BA even more. Then you would have to charge chaff to get to the juicy targets, leaving your (expensive) chaff killing unit(s) exposed in the open. The opponent could simply fallback and shoot your (expensive) models. You need a gunline to cut holes in chaff units to make gaps for your CC units.

This is a fair point, you do need a bit of chaff clearing to get to the meat. Intercessors / scouts plus storm ravens (min 2 if you're taking them) are the way to go. SR's give you the mobility to get your firepower where it's needed and are still points efficient despite the nerf last year. They also provide anti-tank at range which is handy if chaff is too deep.

Intercessors are a good dual use unit - 12 attacks in combat from a 5-man squad and surprisingly fast for grabbing objectives of you give them the auto bolt rifles. 2 wounds gives them a lot of resilience too against small-arms fire. However regular bolt rifles are most commonly the way to go as the -1 against +4 or +5 SV units is really effective. Plus extra range.

List I'm looking at currently is
2x Slam captain + lemartes + meph (or 3x capt + lemartes?)
6x scouts
15 DC
2x Storm ravens

Will get monstered by some armies but fun to play and keeps to the BA theme of fast + assault.

Edit: added list