Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Recently purchased the new Kill Team starter set to play with some friends, which inspired me to dust off my old Dark Vengeance starter kit. After looking through my models, I've decided I want to build a CSM list, non-competitive, to either play with friends or in small games at the local GW store. I put this list together on battlescribe, but wanted to run it past some more experienced players before I started purchasing any new models.


Word Bearers Battalion Detachment

+HQ+

Warlord - Dark Apostle w/ Voice of Lorgar (+3' range to auras), no mark, standard equipment - 76pts

Exalted Champion w/ Chainaxe and plasma pistol, mark of Khorne, Talisman of burning blood artefact - 78pts

+Troops+

10 Cultists w/ autoguns, Heavy stubber and champion with shotgun - 44pts

10 Cultists w/ autoguns, Heavy stubber and champion with shotgun - 49pts

10 Cultists w/ CCW, flamer and champion with CCW - 44pts

+Elites+

Helbrute w/ power fist and multimelta - 139pts


Total - 430pts


I'm leaving 70 points to summon a squad of 10 demons, probably Bloodletters.

I have all the models except the demons (I converted the Neophyte Hybrids from the Kill team box into more cultists, both the Apostle and the Ex. Champion are Chaos Chosen models), so I'm going to be buying new models anyway. Any suggestions?
(Sorry if the formatting is poor, first time posting here)

I like the idea of the summoned daemons, but unfortunately whilst it's well within the fluff for the Word Bearers, it's just not viable from a game mechanic point of view. You'd need to sacrifice a turn of movement for either your Apostle or Champion, and they both look like they want to get into combat quick smart - so if they're standing around, they're not fulfilling your objective of moving them forwards.

I do wonder as to the strategy? Your Apostle and Champion both offer some excellent buffs to close combat troops, are you going to use them to buff the Helbrute if/when it gets a charge off? If so, you can expect every single weapon your opponent has to be focused on the Helbrute - it's the best target for your enemies lascannons as they'd be wasted shooting them at Cultists.

I love Cultists, and it gives you plenty of command points to get a Battalion in 500pts, but I wonder if you're not going to find yourself outgunned on the table. If you're faced with vehicles then they're likely going to outrange your multi-melta on the Helbrute, and without him, you've got no anti-armour at all.

All that being said, as a fellow Word Bearer player, you're using a lot of the same units I am. I love my Helbrute, I love my cultists and I love my Apostle.

If you're going to be moving your Helbrute because you want him in combat, I'd consider investing in a cheaper gun - moving and firing the multi-melta means he's hitting on a 4+, and with one shot, that's not the kind of thing you want to rely on to stop enemy armour. I'd consider twin heavy bolters or a reaper autocannon - you save points, and get more shots whilst you're moving forward. I'd consider removing the heavy stubbers on the cultists, simply because if they're just milling around on objectives and not actually upsetting anyone, they're more likely to get away with it. Assuming you went with the reaper autocannon on the Helbrute, that gives you 90 points left over. That will buy 5 Word Bearers with a lascannon, for some backfield anti-tank (or a missile launcher if you're expecting to take on hordes and want the versatility). If taken as a troops choice, you could then split your third unit of cultists to bolster the other two units to be 15-strong each, or take one as 20 and one as 10 (thus giving more value to the Tide of Traitors stratagem).

On the other hand, if you swapped the plasma pistol for a bolt pistol on the champion, you could take the 5 Word Bearers as havocs with two plasma guns (although without a lord, you'd need to be careful on the overcharge).

Consider:

Dark Apostle 76pts
Exhalted Champion w/ Chainaxe/Bolt Pistol, MoK, Talisman 71pts

20 Cultists with Autoguns 80pts
10 Cultists with CCW 40pts
5 Word Bearers with Lascannon 90pts

Helbrute with Reaper Autocannon and Helbrute Fist 127pts

Total of 484pts, so with the 16 left over you could choose some upgrades for the cultists or your champion.

Anyway, however you go about it, good luck with Word Bearers - I play them with using a separate detchment of daemons, and deep strike them in with the appropriate stratagem from the daemon book. Still fluffy as Word Bearers should be, with Cultists and Daemons, but without having to suffer for my fluff on the table.

^ Looks like good advice

Thanks for all that feedback Raichase, I've put together your suggested list and managed to come to 499 points by upgrading to a twin heavy bolter on the helbrute and a powerfist on the exalted champion.

I've been looking at some forums etc. online about summoning daemons, and it seems like it's pretty good for allowing your force to adapt by summoning a certain type of daemon, i.e. Khorne for killing something, maybe nurgle for holding some objectives. As I have very little experience with CSM, is summoning actually a viable strategy?

I also figured that if I was buying some space marines, I might as well buy the Start Collecting box, which got me up to nearly 1000 points after some rearranging:

Word Bearers Battalion Detachment

+HQ+

Warlord: Dark Apostle, Voice of Lorgar - 76pts

Exalted Champion, power fist, Mark of Khorne, Talisman - 82pts


+Troops+

30 Cultists (20 autoguns, 10 CCW), 2 Heavy Stubbers - 128pts

5 CSM, meltagun - 82pts

5 CSM, Heavy bolter - 75pts


Word Bearers Vanguard Detachment

+HQ+

Sorcerer, Force stave, no mark, Prescience and Warptime - 98 pts

+Elites+

5 Chosen, Mark of Khorne and Icon of Wrath - - Champion w/ power sword and PP, 3x Chosen w/ Chainswords, Chosen w/ Lightning Claws - 113 pts

Helbrute w/ fist and heavy bolter - 129 pts

Helbrute w/ Missile launcher and Lascannons - 147 pts


Total: 930pts, 6 CP

Again, I don't know if I should spend the last 70 points, and what on. I could probably add a basic CSM squad, or bolster a current one. Any suggestions? All feedback is welcome.

Issue with summoning being a) need to be still b) not even reliable relying on dice roll. That's big mountain to overcome for the flexibility rather than just have daemon detachment around...

From what I can recall, a squad of 10 daemon infantry has a power level of 4, which is pretty much guaranteed on three dice (pretty sure you just have to roll over their power level). I even think Word Bearers have a stratagem that lets them reroll one of those dice. I don't think getting them to the table will be difficult, I'm just not sure if it's efficient points-wise? I didn't want a lot of daemons in my army, but I do think it could be a cool addition. Maybe at 1500+ points games I could take a seperate detachment, but for now I just want to make a somewhat viable starting army that I don't have to invest a lot of money in. Thanks again for the feedback

Ferrous695 wrote:
Thanks for all that feedback Raichase, I've put together your suggested list and managed to come to 499 points by upgrading to a twin heavy bolter on the helbrute and a powerfist on the exalted champion.

Sweet, that sounds like it will be pretty solid for small games. I mean it also depends on your local gamers - I played in a 500pt tournament at my local GW with my Word Bearers, and found a mix of people, some playing themed armies with the "rule of cool" reigning supreme like my army, some trying to max out the best toys in the smallest points, and some guys somewhere in the middle. I mean one bloke had a Necron Lord, two small units of warriors and some kind of flyer. This was 7th ed, so I just completely ignored the flyer and let it shoot at things and just focused on objectives. Won the maximum victory.

You might run into a guy who thinks it's fun to bring as many tanks as possible to a 500pt game - if he's doing it because he just bought the kit and he wants to try it out on the table, then I'm down to get curb stomped. If he's doing it because winning games makes him feel good about himself, then you just adjust your list to suit (ie max out on lascannons).

I've been looking at some forums etc. online about summoning daemons, and it seems like it's pretty good for allowing your force to adapt by summoning a certain type of daemon, i.e. Khorne for killing something, maybe nurgle for holding some objectives. As I have very little experience with CSM, is summoning actually a viable strategy?

I LOVE the idea of it - I had a similar idea to yourself, leave a bunch of reserve points set aside to tailor my army to my opponent. Need something killed, summon bloodletters. Need something that can soak up some damage, summon plaguebearers. The issue is the limitations it places on the character doing the summoning - if you are running a fairly static gunline and you're summoning in for a counter attack, then you can likely get away with it. I was just picturing a situation in which you're trying to get your cultists and Helbrute into combat, but you're faced with a choice - do so without the aura from the Apostle because he's rooted to the ground summoning in daemons, or leave the daemons in the warp and hope you can still summon them next turn.

I like the looks of your 1000pt list - I reckon buy a few more bodies for either the meltagun squad or the Chosen squad. I'd also consider switching the Chosen for Berzerkers, if they're destined for combat anyway, Berzerkers are going to hit a lot harder for similar points. They're base S5, and attack twice in every fight phase without even looking at the stratagems. Pretty solid choice for my money. Your opponent will see them as a threat and will pour fire into them, so more bodies the better!

Thank you all for all this awesome feedback! It's been a great help, looks like i've got something to spend my money and time on in the next month or so. Better get busy painting!

Please share your painting results to inspire the rest of us Word Bearers players to get off our backsides and paint our own toys too, haha.