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As it is, they're claiming that cancelling bookings if you're too late as a system is too harsh on people who are late, but I can't see that it's harsher than not being able to book at all.
at all.

That's crazy, if you're late you can just ring up and ask them to hang on to your table for a bit. IMO there's nothing harsh about giving away a table if you're over an hour late and can't be bothered to make a 2 minute phone call!

Process wrote:
I think this is all a little premature considering not all of the facts are available regarding how booking swill change.

But personally i think the bookings for standard tables should be scrapped, there's like 40/50 in there so i cant imagine a time where one wouldn't be available (unless special event/edition release etc).

The feature boards should have a booking system and a charge.

If thats the way you go; the amount of standard tables freed by unused bookings lets you reduce the number of the standard tables and increase the feature tables.

Bookings are being changed to a turn up and play system. What else would you like to know facts-wise?

If I want a 6 by 4 realm of battle board, and some GW scenery followed by low quality heated through burger, I'll go play at my FLGS and pop in the nearby Wetherspoons.

The curly fries are excellent though.

Good idea in my opinion. We've gone before and had to book a table we didnt really want as the table we were after had been booked all weekend. Guess what? They never turned up over the whole weekend.

I can understand people wanting to book specific tablesif youre playing a specialist game but maybe its best to see how tbis goes and maybe also the system from there.

Thebiggesthat wrote:

Process wrote:
I think this is all a little premature considering not all of the facts are available regarding how booking swill change.

But personally i think the bookings for standard tables should be scrapped, there's like 40/50 in there so i cant imagine a time where one wouldn't be available (unless special event/edition release etc).

The feature boards should have a booking system and a charge.

If thats the way you go; the amount of standard tables freed by unused bookings lets you reduce the number of the standard tables and increase the feature tables.

Bookings are being changed to a turn up and play system. What else would you like to know facts-wise?

Well generally, facts-wise, id like to know all of the facts facts before bringing out my best REEEEE haha

Has it been stated that no booking facility will exist at all? I find this hard to believe.

Eek. Supposed to be booking a few days in Feb next year for my mate's stag do... may need a rethink, or an email nearer the time...

I suspect looking at the community response, we may get a roll-back, or a move to a deposit system.

It's not exactly rocket science, but then... geederps...

Sadly I fear that the sort of people who book for free and fail to show up (and more importantly can't even be bothered to call/email to let WHW know they won't be coming)

are just the sort of people who will give the staff loads of grief over a 'lost' booking fee

They've been saying in response to some of the Facebook comments that if you're travelling from far away or with a large group to contact their team ahead of time so they can try their "very best to arrange something". Not exactly the most reassuring thing, I was at Warhammer World earlier this year with some friends, and we wouldn't have made the trip at all if we didn't know for sure we had a table to play on. Booking flights and accommodation would be a bit too much for a "show up and see" system of getting a table.

As for the reason for the change, if vacant tables were the main issue, their system of letting people book tables for an entire day seemed to be as much of a problem as no-shows. There were a fair few tables that booked by people who didn't turn up, but some of the feature tables were only in use for a couple of hours and were vacant for the rest of the day. Our local GW has timeslots for booking tables, and if you need longer for a game, book two back-to-back. Really can't see why Warhammer World wouldn't be able to do something similar. A very paranoid part of me thinks the actual reason for the change is to cut down on the administrative burden of managing their tables.

The booking system was morning or afternoon, or both. I've always booked a table for a full day, because with four people dumping their entire AoS armies onto the board, it takes us all day! Quite a few tables did say they were booked from 11am, or from 3pm or the like, so I suppose it wouldn't have been a problem to use those if you'd be finished up by that time.

Bobug wrote:
maybe its best to see how tbis goes and maybe also the system from there.

We simply can't. People can't plan meets for months, take days off work, and spend hundreds of pounds travelling around the country on the promise that we'll "probably" get a table.

Process wrote:
Has it been stated that no booking facility will exist at all? I find this hard to believe.

Quoting directly from one of the responses on the Facebook post (linked so you can check, if you need):

"None of our tables will be bookable. It's to make sure all of our awesome gaming tables are being used all the time by people who are definitely here!"

I would say that one quote comfortably sums up what I said in the first post about what they're doing and why.

Exactly. The evidence is right there.

They should have a fee

Devil's Advocate: if GW had said they're charging a fee to book tables there'd have been uproar across the community. Damned if they do, damned if they don;'t

 BroodSpawn wrote:
Devil's Advocate: if GW had said they're charging a fee to book tables there'd have been uproar across the community. Damned if they do, damned if they don;'t

They did suggest something like that in the past, and there was uproar, but it was truly bizarrely handled - the booking price table started at "Up to ten tables - [Insert fee here]".
I don't remember what the exact value was, but my recollection is that it would have have been acceptable (if a little steep) for ten tables, but ludicrous for people who only needed two, three or four.

In any case, a fee could be somewhat offset by making it a deposit or, as some have suggested, redeemable as a voucher for Bugmans and/or the store.

It wouldn't be unthinkable for GW to implement an automated system. Go to a booking machine, scan a printed or smartphone ticket, have the machine refund the deposit/spit out the requisite vouchers, then show you where your tables are in the hall.
The machine could then automatically void bookings that haven't checked in (potentially keeping back a few spare in case of genuine latecomers) and would know where to send any walk-ins.
As far as keeping track of vacated tables, have a staffer walk around the hall every now and again with a tablet so that they can prod things to say "Table 17 empty", "Table 32 empty" such that the system can put those tables back into the pool.

It would obviously cost a bit to implement a custom solution like that, but as far as reducing the staff workload and discouraging no-show bookings (and any genuine no-shows would start to pay back the cost of the system), it should be pretty darn effective.

If they made people pay a £5 deposit to book a table, which was refundable when you show up, it might help.

Or at least deter those arseholes who never bother to turn up.

Is travel really expensive within the UK? I don't have an argument with WW's policy change other than I can't see £5 being a significant deterrent. But just the travel costs being alluded to sounds really high.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Is travel really expensive within the UK? I don't have an argument with WW's policy change other than I can't see £5 being a significant deterrent. But just the travel costs being alluded to sounds really high.

Yes, it's also unusual - there's a joke that 200 miles is a long way in Europe, but 200 years is a long time in the states. A two-hour drive is a long way over here, and charged accordingly (we pay close to the same price for a litre as you do for a half a gallon, Google gives $3.30 for a gallon which is £2.50ish. Petrol at a cheap place here will be £1.20 a litre). Train tickets etc then take this into account.

Travelling from major population hub to hub is probably about the same cost, but they're a lot closer here. On public transport, if you wanted to go from London to Nottingham tomorrow, that's a $180 USD return ticket, valid for that day only and sticking to off-peak times. $297 USD if you wanted complete freedom that day. That's close to a 3hr drive, and 150 miles each way - it's a long way over here.

Post WWII the UK government tore up vast amounts of the UK rail network for the rail metal and to reduce its operating costs. However in doing so it tore the entire freight distribution network out. This instantly put the cost of passengers up significantly because that was always a loss area next to freight and commercial transportation of goods.

So today we have a huge fleet of lorries and far fewer train connections - with many smaller urban areas not even having branch lines any more. The result is very expensive public transport. The privatisation of the rail network did nothing to help this and only made it worse (esp since the fracturing of many rail network services and contracts into multiple companies generally increase admin and other costs).

That is really expensive. 150 miles each way would probably cost me about $45 in gas. I've honestly just assumed you guys payed very little to get around because of the well developed train system.

This is such a poor idea. Clearly WHW was having a significant problem with tables being reserved but unused, but this just wasn't the way to handle it.

Why not figure out a rough percentage of how many tables went unused (e.g. 40%) and use that to estimate how many tables need to be available for reservations (60% of all tables). That leaves you with some tables available for gamers who just show up, but doesn't significantly reduce the number of reserved tables that are actually used by the reserver.

Then free up reserved tables after some reasonable period of time (30 minutes, whatever). Make that time frame explicit in the reservations, so no one can be surprised. That makes more tables available if possible.

Given that their reservations have been going on for quite some time, GW should be able to figure out pretty accurate percentages for each of those, and dial in fairly accurately how many reserved tables are actually needed, and how late people with reservations actually show up.

This would also allow people who really needed a specific table to reserve it, while the people who are just walking in, and most likely haven't planned a specific scenario for a specific table end up using the tables that aren't in high demand at the moment.

Completely separate to that, I'd personally make all reservations purchase a WHW store credit (and charge more for a full day than morning/afternoon). Don't refund those credits at all unless the reservation is cancelled sufficiently early (maybe 1 day, maybe one week out?). That way, most people will be using their credits at WHW when they show up for their game, and those people who fail to show up for their game will still be motivated to show up to WHW eventually just to use their credit--so you will get a visit out of them anyway). That doesn't have to be a nominal charge, either. I suspect most people spend some amount of cash on a visit to WHW, and I suspect that the people who plan a single yearly visit with friends spend a lot, while the people who show up weekly spend much less. The people who are making a significant holiday trip to WHW won't mind a larger store credit requirement, and the people who show up each week can probably just rely on unreserved tables and not need to spend the cash on a reservation.

I think most people would accept a deposit that's refunded as store credit, providing you can also use that credit in Bugmans. Most folk going as a trip will end up eating or drinking something out of there anyway, and most of the rest would be going by FW.

The cynic in me says that it's a quick "we won't do reservations at all", then when there's uproar, they back down with "FINE, but there's a small charge". Just a PR move.

 Brunius wrote:
The cynic in me says that it's a quick "we won't do reservations at all", then when there's uproar, they back down with "FINE, but there's a small charge". Just a PR move.

Could be - otherwise we'd all be here arguing about how outrageous it is and that our local club doesn't need to charge or that the GW stores never charge and OMG maybe GW is going to roll it out for all stores!

In fact that might have been a big reason they didn't want to charge, being able to turn up and play for free is one of the important aspects of GW stores. They've dabbled with tokens and tickets in the past for table rental based on purchases - though honestly that whole system when I encountered it always felt rather casual than formal - and likely only really affected very busy stores. I've not ben in ages to know if that's still going (and it was a few years ago that I encountered it)

 MarcoSkoll wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Having visited many, many times....even if you rock up and can’t get a table, there’s still plenty enough to enjoy to prevent a wasted journey

Having also visited many times, I can tell you that it's definitely not enough when you've seen all of it before, you've had people book days off work to fly down from Inverness a day early because they want to play a game that only a few people in the country still stick with, and when you've spent three months on crafting a new narrative, scenarios and models for your meet.

"Wasted journey" here means hundreds of man-hours of travel and work down the drain, so no, there's definitely not enough there to prevent it being a wasted journey.

Exactly what I was going to say. I've been plenty of times before it's a complete waste of time and money if there isn't a table free as I've got to drive a few hundred miles, pay for a hotel, food and fuel for the car. I love the exhibition hall as much as the next warhammer superfan but that alone isn't worth driving all that way and spending all that money to go and see for a couple of hours. There's absolutely no way in hell I'm going there if there's a chance that I'm not going to be able to do what I've planned and set out to do.

This just seems like a lazy solution.

Seems like the best way would be to take a deposit that is turned into store/bugmans credit on arrival. Couple that with losing your booking if you're not there within 30 minutes (and haven't phoned ahead).

I think that would suit everybody?

Herbington wrote:
This just seems like a lazy solution.

Seems like the best way would be to take a deposit that is turned into store/bugmans credit on arrival. Couple that with losing your booking if you're not there within 30 minutes (and haven't phoned ahead).

I think that would suit everybody?

yeah that should work. In the same direction they could manage reservations via website or app. Easy for everyone.

I don't think it makes much sense to take booking fees from people purely to refund them later. There are costs associated with doing that. The charge of a deposit that is turned into credit on arrival sounds like a good solution though - offsets the cost of running the booking system

Don't see where is the problem here. They're still open for talking for special cases that I see showing up on this topic and that I feel are, frankly, far from being the majority of cases behind their decision (meaning, the "book and forget" kind of people).

No need to involve money, here. Just talk first. Then decide and plan in accordance.

I also bet that the reason of their decision is actually based on what is the reality of games at Warhammer World, based on from where the people booking then not showing up and how often they do that. They have the data. Random people on the internet do not.

So I won't throw the stone at them and will first try to have a talk with them if one day, I would cross the sea to play on one of their tables with my friends rather than going all "oh noes don't do that because of some special cases that we do not know represent the reality of your situation everyday !"

That's nice. The rest of us have learned from experience not to give GW the benefit of the doubt, and when you have even the folks running the extremely pro-GW "narrative" focused specialist games Facebook groups(ie, the people who actually do organise these big meetup events that GW will maybe kinda sorta someway somehow think about perhaps considering on a case-by-case basis...) expressing concern, I'd say that's a pretty solid indicator they've made the wrong decision.

I think it's important to remember that the real villains of the piece are the "gamers" that book and don't show, and the real victims are those gamers who show up but can't get a table because of all the 'reserved' signs.