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Is it something specific to Blood Angels or are there equivalents in other Space Marine armies?

Thanks in advance!

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
Is it something specific to Blood Angels or are there equivalents in other Space Marine armies?

Thanks in advance!

SG

You can have a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield on a Captain with Jump Pack, but that's not a Smash Captain.

You need relics, traits, and strats that are damage multipliers, and I don't think any other chapter comes particularly close.

Yeah. No other can do ds and 3d6 charge or prevent overwatch or cause in a turn like 16 attacks if need be with +1 to wound to wreck a knight in one go.

space wolves captains with sagas etc can out smash captain a BA captain smash.

Oh? What's the average output vs knight and what delivery methods they have?

I for one hope this new FAQ has killed this stupidly-named, stupid thing that is blighting 40k once and for all.

Good riddance.

 Grimtuff wrote:
I for one hope this new FAQ has killed this stupidly-named, stupid thing that is blighting 40k once and for all.

Good riddance.

What is wrong with them? Never faced one personally but heard they can be a bit tasty. Curious.

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah. No other can do ds and 3d6 charge or prevent overwatch or cause in a turn like 16 attacks if need be with +1 to wound to wreck a knight in one go.

How are you getting 16 attacks? Captains have around 4 so even with a "fight twice" strategem you're not going to get anywhere near 16.

Model that's hard to prevent from dropping in, sports 3++ and can wreck knight a turn is tough one. And cheap. It's character so can't shoot, overwatch might be prevented and it can move fast, fly over screens(before in charge as well), deep strike(mid game as well) and charge 3d6.

Basically only way to protect is like 13" circle of screen around model you want to keep alive. Screen might cost as much as smash captain that blows something else instead.

Also very binary option that is either nightmare or easily dealt. And encourages soup as well so that any elite army has tons of screens


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah. No other can do ds and 3d6 charge or prevent overwatch or cause in a turn like 16 attacks if need be with +1 to wound to wreck a knight in one go.

How are you getting 16 attacks? Captains have around 4 so even with a "fight twice" strategem you're not going to get anywhere near 16.

Death company, d3 more, fight twice. Chopchop chop. Not sure was there another way as well

To be clear, a Smash Captain is just whatever you call the most optimized combat captain space marines can put out. From 6th ed's Smashbane, to 7th's Chapter Master Smash****er.

You can basically count on somebody trying to brainstorm one for every space marine or space marine-esque codex, and the crown falls to whoever wears it best.

tneva82 wrote:
Oh? What's the average output vs knight and what delivery methods they have?

Really it is a space wolves rune priest with jump pack not a captain, but it’s the “smash captain” idea, 112 points base. Remember he has a 6 inch heroic intervention for starters, in case that comes in. Make him the warlord, give relic wolfen stone so now 4 attacks, gives plus 1 attack. Give a runic axe, cast fury of the wolf priest, str 5 ap-3 after rune priest swings we get 6 attacks with this (wc7) until your next psychic phase. 3 cp you get another attack phase which means more wolf attacks as it is after your priest swings in name for the turn. That is 10 attacks twice for 20 attacks in 1 phase. Warlord trait saga of the beast slayer, add 1 to the wound rolls against monsters or vehicles, so if knights use this. If no the saga of the wulfen for adding a trait, choose extra attack for 22 attacks hitting on 2’s, wounding most things on a 2 or 3. And knights on 4s. You can also do the dark angels honor battle for 1 cp and possibly get the +1 str , attack and the rest there too.

 Valkyrie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yeah. No other can do ds and 3d6 charge or prevent overwatch or cause in a turn like 16 attacks if need be with +1 to wound to wreck a knight in one go.

How are you getting 16 attacks? Captains have around 4 so even with a "fight twice" strategem you're not going to get anywhere near 16.

4 base attacks + 1 on the charge from the black rage rule which you can give a Blood Angels character for 1CP + D3 attacks from Red Rampage stratagem for 1CP and then doubled with 3CP for Honour The Chapter = 12-16 attacks.

As a prolific Smash user, he will be missed post FAQ.

In my relatively fluffy Angels list, he and my Librarian Dread were my sole sources of reliable AT.

Yes he was a little cheap, but the Blood Angels didn't really have many options in jump lists.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Oh? What's the average output vs knight and what delivery methods they have?

Really it is a space wolves rune priest with jump pack not a captain, but it’s the “smash captain” idea, 112 points base. Remember he has a 6 inch heroic intervention for starters, in case that comes in. Make him the warlord, give relic wolfen stone so now 4 attacks, gives plus 1 attack. Give a runic axe, cast fury of the wolf priest, str 5 ap-3 after rune priest swings we get 6 attacks with this (wc7) until your next psychic phase. 3 cp you get another attack phase which means more wolf attacks as it is after your priest swings in name for the turn. That is 10 attacks twice for 20 attacks in 1 phase. Warlord trait saga of the beast slayer, add 1 to the wound rolls against monsters or vehicles, so if knights use this. If no the saga of the wulfen for adding a trait, choose extra attack for 22 attacks hitting on 2’s, wounding most things on a 2 or 3. And knights on 4s. You can also do the dark angels honor battle for 1 cp and possibly get the +1 str , attack and the rest there too.

Well that is nice infanpry killer but falls short vs vehicles. Unless that weapon has some damage can't smash knight for example. Part of why smash captain was so popular was ability to...well smash..knights at ease and without guard allies knights could only pray for luck as knights without allies can't prevent it from charging.

Different usages

I've used him a bit and its the BA stratagems that make him stand out from the pack, noone else can get as reliable a charge off deepstrike, can go into deepstrike from the table and get an ungodly number of damage 3 attacks rerolling 1s to hit and with +1 to wound.

He is very cheap - in points. The cost in command points though is really high, to jump off the table and deepstrike in with a 3D6 charge with +1+D3 attacks attacking twice costs.....8 CP! or 9 after the FAQ, sure he can kill more of less anything but without the farm (good riddance, it was annoying, even to those who used it) that'll take up most of your command points.

It'll be interesting to see where they go from here, I think BA players will still pack them but not use all the strat all at once whilst soup players will drop them in favour of something that is not as killy but far less CP dependant, Custode bike captains I suspect.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
To be clear, a Smash Captain is just whatever you call the most optimized combat captain space marines can put out. From 6th ed's Smashbane, to 7th's Chapter Master Smash****er.

You can basically count on somebody trying to brainstorm one for every space marine or space marine-esque codex, and the crown falls to whoever wears it best.

Last time smash mouth was a thing it was the bike version with wolves in 7th iirc

it happens almost every edition.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
space wolves captains with sagas etc can out smash captain a BA captain smash.

Yeah, but they can't reach CC T1, which is half of what makes a BA Smashcaptain so strong.

Pandabeer wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
space wolves captains with sagas etc can out smash captain a BA captain smash.

Yeah, but they can't reach CC T1, which is half of what makes a BA Smashcaptain so strong.

BA cannot be there turn 1 anymore either though with the faq i thought.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
space wolves captains with sagas etc can out smash captain a BA captain smash.

Yeah, but they can't reach CC T1, which is half of what makes a BA Smashcaptain so strong.

BA cannot be there turn 1 anymore either though with the faq i thought.

sure can just have to spend an extra cp now

I always played my BA captain as a counter charge unit and he is still viable in that roll. Keep him in your lines and move him towards threats that come to your line and swat them away. If a target of opportunity presents itself, only then will he consume CP (at best I try to keep it to his attack twice strategem). He hits hard enough for a 114pt model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
space wolves captains with sagas etc can out smash captain a BA captain smash.

Yeah, but they can't reach CC T1, which is half of what makes a BA Smashcaptain so strong.

BA cannot be there turn 1 anymore either though with the faq i thought.

Upon Wings of Fire still works for 2CP. Just need to start the captain on the board in deployment.

Raven Guard puts itself forward as a distant third.

Warlord trait denies Overwatch.
Chapter relic is a jump-pack that allows shoot/charge after an advance.
New chapter strat lets the unit move before the 1st turn.

It's only a regular Thunder Hammer and even with the fight-twice strat it's only 8 attacks, but it does offer a 24+3d6 threat range if you get the first turn.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
I for one hope this new FAQ has killed this stupidly-named, stupid thing that is blighting 40k once and for all.

Good riddance.

What is wrong with them? Never faced one personally but heard they can be a bit tasty. Curious.

They have been considered OP because they get 3D6 charge range after DS, no overwatch, get several bonus attacks, can fight twice, and have +1 to wound on the charge, so they were an extreme threat to things like knights. It is a bit silly to have one SPESS MERREN smash a slaughterbot to pieces.

Then again, they were (and are) a massive relic / CP sink - you need to feed them stratagem after stratagem to become really scary.

I've only fought one, once - he rolled a total of 6 on his 3D6 charge, twice (because he could reroll the charge too), and him and my DP squared off and both bounced off each other's 3+ invlun until he got smitten.

The Newman wrote:
Raven Guard puts itself forward as a distant third.

Warlord trait denies Overwatch.
Chapter relic is a jump-pack that allows shoot/charge after an advance.
New chapter strat lets the unit move before the 1st turn.

It's only a regular Thunder Hammer and even with the fight-twice strat it's only 8 attacks, but it does offer a 24+3d6 threat range if you get the first turn.

Gotta correct myself, it's only 20+3d6". I'd seen the summary but not read the actual new wording of the strategem. At least it's still only 1 cp.

Iron Hands USED to have one with the Iron Resolve Warlord Trait and The Shield Eternal, but now the FNP doesn't stack because GW makes dumb decisions and Iron Hands aren't allowed to keep nice things.

Chaos can manage a smash captain, with a daemon prince with wings and a skullreaver axe.

Doesn't get a 3D6 charge though, so its less reliable. Also can't deepstrike without spending CP on stratagems.

Also costs almost double the points.

 Desubot wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
To be clear, a Smash Captain is just whatever you call the most optimized combat captain space marines can put out. From 6th ed's Smashbane, to 7th's Chapter Master Smash****er.

You can basically count on somebody trying to brainstorm one for every space marine or space marine-esque codex, and the crown falls to whoever wears it best.

Last time smash mouth was a thing it was the bike version with wolves in 7th iirc

it happens almost every edition.

IIRC for most of 7th it ("smash captains" not the edition) was dominated by a bike mounted Iron Hands Chapter master, he was kitted out with a thunderhammer, a shield a bike and some sort of relic that made the captain damn near unkillable. he didn't put out any more damage then anyone else but he was a LOT harder to kill hving a 2+/3++/4+++ save or something disagusting like that