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2018/10/09 12:52:02
Subject: Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Yeah. There are people today in the real world who think that god(s) talk to them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andykp wrote: FINALLY. I thought I was alone in that. The great time of myth and intrigue is just a load of emo kids with daddy issues! GW sold out on that one, the books made too much money not to be milked dry. Alan blighs forgeworld books were better because it was just historical style accounts of the military actions. Shame about him.
There are plenty of people who feel like that, they just usually do not bother to bring it up as this section is the forum has been taken over by HH fans and it just leads to endless arguments.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 12:59:45
Crimson wrote: Yeah. There are people today in the real world who think that god(s) talk to them.
But those people are real, and we don't have an omniscient third person view of their lives.
Guilliman is a fictional character in a book, who we have narrative focus on. From what we are presented with, Guilliman's perspective isn't false. The Emperor really DID communicate to him.
You might not like it. That's what headcanon's for. It's cool that you dislike the way GW have taken the story. You can carry on with your version of the story, that's fine, but if other people actually want to talk about the actual storyline as presented, and the way Games Workshop is taking it, there should be nothing wrong with that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andykp wrote: FINALLY. I thought I was alone in that. The great time of myth and intrigue is just a load of emo kids with daddy issues! GW sold out on that one, the books made too much money not to be milked dry. Alan blighs forgeworld books were better because it was just historical style accounts of the military actions. Shame about him.
There are plenty of people who feel like that, they just usually do not bother to bring it up as this section is the forum has been taken over by HH fans and it just leads to endless arguments.
Arguments usually between people who follow the canon, and people who ignore the canon and spew headcanons everywhere. Headcanon's fine. Pretending that canon doesn't exist isn't great.
Besides - what's wrong with Horus Heresy fans? It's a far better STORY than most of 40k.*
*note, I say story, not setting. 40k used to have a near absence of story. That appears to be changing, for better or worse.
They/them
2018/10/09 14:25:11
Subject: Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Crimson wrote: I think that absence of a story is preferable to presence of a bad story. HH was fine as barely remembered myths, it was way cooler that way.
Maybe it was. It doesn't change the fact that now things are different. We have definitive answer, opinions, streams of consiousness from characters. I don't think it's productive to ignore that because you don't like it.
Cool is also subjective too - "I THOUGHT it was way cooler" would be more apt.
They/them
2018/10/09 16:00:49
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
My bigger problem with the HH novels is how uneven they are both in over all quality and tone and how bloated they have gotten. We have a ton of filler and it's fairly clear that BL doesn't have anyone looking over the entire series, spotting continuity errors or even a solid over all road map of the story they were trying to tell.
2018/10/09 16:23:02
Subject: Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Onething123456 wrote: Was there ever doubt that the Emperor is still alive before Guy Haley's Dark Imperium book? Books before Dark Imperium confirmed that.
Guy Haley's Throneworld book from the Beast Arises confirmed that.
Such power made Lhaerial’s mind reel, and for a moment her contempt for the creatures of Terra wavered. The mind of the Emperor was a mountain in the surging madness of the Othersea, blinding in its brilliance. The Great Powers circled this place like razorshark waiting out the death throes of a void-whale. That terrible presence held them back, and all His little servants were ignorant of it! Unease gripped her, that she would be noticed by the Dark Gods or their defier, and the fragile flame of her being snuffed out.
The feeling passed. The regard of the things of the Othersea was ossified, so long had they fixed their gaze on the Earth. The Emperor did not shift His regard. His attention was elsewhere, upon the blinding pyre of souls, navigation beacon of the mon-keigh. She had no indication she was seen. There was little relief in that. She had laughed in the face of She Who Thirsts, but the Corpse Emperor filled her with a sense of dread.
And this from Aaron Dembski's Bowden's Talon of Horus.
We can see that light. Those of us within the Empire of the Eye can actually see it. The Astronomican reaches even to our purgatorial exile, and to us it is no mere mystical radiance illuminating the warp. It is pain, it is fire, and it plunges entire Neverborn worlds into war.
It would be a mistake to believe the Emperor’s power battles the Four Gods’ forces, here. It is not order against chaos, nor anything as crude as ‘good’ against ‘evil’. It is all psychic energy, crashing together in volatile torment.
Most of the Radiant Worlds are uninhabitable, lost in the lethal crash of conflicting psychic energies. Armies of fire angels and flame-wrought projections wage war against everything in their path. We call this region the Firetide. What made the Avernus Breach so valuable was its path, not its destination. It cut through the systems forever bleached bare of life by the Firetide, and into the calmer Radiant Worlds beyond. These are the star systems bathed in psychic light without burning in it.
Entire centuries will pass without a single vessel sailing the region, for it offers little to us beyond yet another example of soul energies manifesting in ways mortals can barely control. On more than one occasion the Mechanicum has sought to use Neverborn spirits bound within arcane flesh-machinery to record the Radiant Worlds in an ever-shifting, evolving map. Such attempts have fared as poorly as you might imagine.
And the Inquisition War shows him talking to Draco.
The astonomican works; therefore he's alive. No psyker is powerful enough to direct the astronominan other than the emperor, even Magnus could only do it for a short time and he died because of it and he's the rarest of the rare in terms of human psykers.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/09 16:24:23
2018/10/09 16:32:16
Subject: Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Onething123456 wrote: Was there ever doubt that the Emperor is still alive before Guy Haley's Dark Imperium book? Books before Dark Imperium confirmed that.
Guy Haley's Throneworld book from the Beast Arises confirmed that.
Such power made Lhaerial’s mind reel, and for a moment her contempt for the creatures of Terra wavered. The mind of the Emperor was a mountain in the surging madness of the Othersea, blinding in its brilliance. The Great Powers circled this place like razorshark waiting out the death throes of a void-whale. That terrible presence held them back, and all His little servants were ignorant of it! Unease gripped her, that she would be noticed by the Dark Gods or their defier, and the fragile flame of her being snuffed out.
The feeling passed. The regard of the things of the Othersea was ossified, so long had they fixed their gaze on the Earth. The Emperor did not shift His regard. His attention was elsewhere, upon the blinding pyre of souls, navigation beacon of the mon-keigh. She had no indication she was seen. There was little relief in that. She had laughed in the face of She Who Thirsts, but the Corpse Emperor filled her with a sense of dread.
And this from Aaron Dembski's Bowden's Talon of Horus.
We can see that light. Those of us within the Empire of the Eye can actually see it. The Astronomican reaches even to our purgatorial exile, and to us it is no mere mystical radiance illuminating the warp. It is pain, it is fire, and it plunges entire Neverborn worlds into war.
It would be a mistake to believe the Emperor’s power battles the Four Gods’ forces, here. It is not order against chaos, nor anything as crude as ‘good’ against ‘evil’. It is all psychic energy, crashing together in volatile torment.
Most of the Radiant Worlds are uninhabitable, lost in the lethal crash of conflicting psychic energies. Armies of fire angels and flame-wrought projections wage war against everything in their path. We call this region the Firetide. What made the Avernus Breach so valuable was its path, not its destination. It cut through the systems forever bleached bare of life by the Firetide, and into the calmer Radiant Worlds beyond. These are the star systems bathed in psychic light without burning in it.
Entire centuries will pass without a single vessel sailing the region, for it offers little to us beyond yet another example of soul energies manifesting in ways mortals can barely control. On more than one occasion the Mechanicum has sought to use Neverborn spirits bound within arcane flesh-machinery to record the Radiant Worlds in an ever-shifting, evolving map. Such attempts have fared as poorly as you might imagine.
And the Inquisition War shows him talking to Draco.
The astonomican works; therefore he's alive. No psyker is powerful enough to direct the astronominan other than the emperor, even Magnus could only do it for a short time and he died because of it and he's the rarest of the rare in terms of human psykers.
Malcador. The Emperor directs the Astronomican, he does not power it. But he is the only one who can do it.
2018/10/09 17:05:00
Subject: Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Onething123456 wrote: Was there ever doubt that the Emperor is still alive before Guy Haley's Dark Imperium book? Books before Dark Imperium confirmed that.
Guy Haley's Throneworld book from the Beast Arises confirmed that.
Such power made Lhaerial’s mind reel, and for a moment her contempt for the creatures of Terra wavered. The mind of the Emperor was a mountain in the surging madness of the Othersea, blinding in its brilliance. The Great Powers circled this place like razorshark waiting out the death throes of a void-whale. That terrible presence held them back, and all His little servants were ignorant of it! Unease gripped her, that she would be noticed by the Dark Gods or their defier, and the fragile flame of her being snuffed out.
The feeling passed. The regard of the things of the Othersea was ossified, so long had they fixed their gaze on the Earth. The Emperor did not shift His regard. His attention was elsewhere, upon the blinding pyre of souls, navigation beacon of the mon-keigh. She had no indication she was seen. There was little relief in that. She had laughed in the face of She Who Thirsts, but the Corpse Emperor filled her with a sense of dread.
And this from Aaron Dembski's Bowden's Talon of Horus.
We can see that light. Those of us within the Empire of the Eye can actually see it. The Astronomican reaches even to our purgatorial exile, and to us it is no mere mystical radiance illuminating the warp. It is pain, it is fire, and it plunges entire Neverborn worlds into war.
It would be a mistake to believe the Emperor’s power battles the Four Gods’ forces, here. It is not order against chaos, nor anything as crude as ‘good’ against ‘evil’. It is all psychic energy, crashing together in volatile torment.
Most of the Radiant Worlds are uninhabitable, lost in the lethal crash of conflicting psychic energies. Armies of fire angels and flame-wrought projections wage war against everything in their path. We call this region the Firetide. What made the Avernus Breach so valuable was its path, not its destination. It cut through the systems forever bleached bare of life by the Firetide, and into the calmer Radiant Worlds beyond. These are the star systems bathed in psychic light without burning in it.
Entire centuries will pass without a single vessel sailing the region, for it offers little to us beyond yet another example of soul energies manifesting in ways mortals can barely control. On more than one occasion the Mechanicum has sought to use Neverborn spirits bound within arcane flesh-machinery to record the Radiant Worlds in an ever-shifting, evolving map. Such attempts have fared as poorly as you might imagine.
And the Inquisition War shows him talking to Draco.
The astonomican works; therefore he's alive. No psyker is powerful enough to direct the astronominan other than the emperor, even Magnus could only do it for a short time and he died because of it and he's the rarest of the rare in terms of human psykers.
Malcador. The Emperor directs the Astronomican, he does not power it. But he is the only one who can do it.
He used to power it and direct it, but that's irrelevant, he needs to direct it because he's the only one powerful enough to do it.
2018/10/09 17:34:43
Subject: Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Or that's what the authorities say. Maybe the real reason for all the witch hunts is to find poweful psykers they can install on the throne until they burn out and it is time to switch in the new one like a lightbulb. There's a giant unmarked pile of bones behind the Imperial Palace for the remains of all those psykers, the bones of the original Emperor laying on the bottom of it.
(No need to chime in to tell me how that cannot be because on page 128 of this and that BL book a Primarch said it isn't so while angsting and punching titans to death. I know.)
The truth is that the people in the 40k setting now don’t know how the astronomicon works. They have no real idea if the corpse it’s plugged into is alive or dead, powering it or directing it. The number of people sacfificed to power it daily could actual be the only thing giving it its “light”.
Having the narrator describe what guiliman heard and felt still leaves enough ambiguity for us not to know for a fact what happened. We know what guiliman thought happened. There could be any number of explanations. I know people who believe god has spoken to them and I don’t think he has. But they “know” he has.
2018/10/09 18:37:01
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Andykp wrote: The truth is that the people in the 40k setting now don’t know how the astronomicon works. They have no real idea if the corpse it’s plugged into is alive or dead, powering it or directing it. The number of people sacfificed to power it daily could actual be the only thing giving it its “light”.
Having the narrator describe what guiliman heard and felt still leaves enough ambiguity for us not to know for a fact what happened. We know what guiliman thought happened. There could be any number of explanations. I know people who believe god has spoken to them and I don’t think he has. But they “know” he has.
We know he did. Why the hell would he hallucinate it? Primarchs are mentally healthy beyond mortal ways. Gulliman has no mental problems.
Its a fact that it happened. Move on. Case closed.
2018/10/09 18:45:06
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Mind closed. Who know roboute mental state. It could have been tzeentch talking to him. Tomorrow GW could release a book undoes all of thei canon in a flash.
2018/10/09 18:48:16
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Andykp wrote: Mind closed. Who know roboute mental state. It could have been tzeentch talking to him. Tomorrow GW could release a book undoes all of thei canon in a flash.
I prefer that it was the Star Child. There was Table Top for the Sensei as champions of the Star Child in 1st Edition Rogue Trader. They could ascend to the Sensei equivalent of a Daemon Prince as a champion of the Star Child, and freely go between the warp and the materium. 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 18:48:38
2018/10/09 18:49:24
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Andykp wrote: Mind closed. Who know roboute mental state. It could have been tzeentch talking to him. Tomorrow GW could release a book undoes all of thei canon in a flash.
Could.
If they do, that's canon, and I'll take it. As it currently stands, the wider contextual stance taken by GW implies that it was genuinely the Emperor talking, and the fan-theories that Guilliman is hallucinating are just that - fan-theories.
They/them
2018/10/09 18:49:40
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
We know he did. Why the hell would he hallucinate it? Primarchs are mentally healthy beyond mortal ways. Gulliman has no mental problems.
Yeah, 'mentally healthy' certainly is not a description that I'd apply to Primarchs... these guys are bonkers. And let's not forget that the guy was popsicle for several millennia and resurrected by xeno-necromancy and heretech. Who knows what that sort of thing does to your brain.
Also, stop being so boring and literal. It's fiction anyway, none of it is real.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andykp wrote: It could have been tzeentch talking to him.
Or Ynnead. That would make sense. The whole thing could be an Ynnari plot to manipulate the Imperium for their purposes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 18:51:12
We know he did. Why the hell would he hallucinate it? Primarchs are mentally healthy beyond mortal ways. Gulliman has no mental problems.
Yeah, 'mentally healthy' certainly is not a description that I'd apply to Primarchs... these guys are bonkers. And let's not forget that the guy was popsicle for several millennia and resurrected by xeno-necromancy and heretech. Who knows what that sort of thing does to your brain.
Also, stop being so boring and literal. It's fiction anyway, none of it is real.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Andykp wrote: It could have been tzeentch talking to him.
Or Ynnead. That would make sense. The whole thing could be an Ynnari plot to manipulate the Imperium for their purposes.
At this point you are making balls-out assumptions. Guy Haley's Throneworld and Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Talon of Horus show he is alve. An Eldar Harlequin sensed the Emperor's power while she was on Terra, and the Emperor in the other book, Talon of Horus created the Angels of fire from the Astronomican.
And what you said would not do crap to the Primarch's mental health.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But everything in 40k is told from unreliable narrators. That is the point of the setting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 18:57:38
2018/10/09 18:58:08
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Crimson wrote: Also, stop being so boring and literal. It's fiction anyway, none of it is real.
Yay! Let's ignore everything about 40k background in the Background section!! It's fiction, so stop reading it and making rationalisations about it!!! It's not like people have done that for years with, I don't know, literally every fictional franchise ever? Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, Halo etc etc...
If people want to read the lore, and codify canon for it, why is that boring?
They/them
2018/10/09 19:05:32
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Crimson wrote: Also, stop being so boring and literal. It's fiction anyway, none of it is real.
Yay! Let's ignore everything about 40k background in the Background section!! It's fiction, so stop reading it and making rationalisations about it!!! It's not like people have done that for years with, I don't know, literally every fictional franchise ever? Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, Halo etc etc...
If people want to read the lore, and codify canon for it, why is that boring?
40K used to be different. The lore was a weird mess of lies and half truths. lot of things could be true, but many times no one really knew what was true for sure. That was interesting and the fans used to understand this. But nowadays it must be just the one way, and here are the quotes. So that's boring. If the point is just to verify the facts, you can go read the Lexicanum or the books in question; there is no need for an discussion forum.
HoundsofDemos wrote: I though Magnus could as well, at least in theory, since his father's plan for him was ultimately to be a living warp battery.
Magnus is no longer on the Imperiums side though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crimson wrote: Or that's what the authorities say. Maybe the real reason for all the witch hunts is to find poweful psykers they can install on the throne until they burn out and it is time to switch in the new one like a lightbulb. There's a giant unmarked pile of bones behind the Imperial Palace for the remains of all those psykers, the bones of the original Emperor laying on the bottom of it.
(No need to chime in to tell me how that cannot be because on page 128 of this and that BL book a Primarch said it isn't so while angsting and punching titans to death. I know.)
Well its possible as Lord Viktor LaHayn used the 'engine' that could create a psyker as powerful or near powerful as the Emperor in theory, out of a worlds population. So there is possibilities but for human born psykers it is incredibly unlikely, the black ships were in use for the great crusade and no psyker could be found anywhere near Malcador's strength, let alone the strength of the Emperor, plus there is nothing special about the Emperor if they could, there would be something like him in all the time of the age of strife, unification all the way up to the 41st millennium. Plus they'd need a constant supply of Malcadors as he was burned up by doing it for a short period of time. Plus Malcador was said to be stronger than Magnus, so I doubt the human physiology can handle doing it. So I really doubt it, the odds are too vast.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/09 19:21:04
2018/10/09 19:15:32
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
And what you said would not do crap to the Primarch's mental health.
Ah, good to see you're the resident expert on fictitious races and their fictitious gods and the effects they have on fictitious metahumans brains after their fictitious resurrections using means that are utterly beyond our current human understanding.
Good to know.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 19:15:49
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2018/10/09 19:16:56
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Crimson wrote: Also, stop being so boring and literal. It's fiction anyway, none of it is real.
Yay! Let's ignore everything about 40k background in the Background section!! It's fiction, so stop reading it and making rationalisations about it!!! It's not like people have done that for years with, I don't know, literally every fictional franchise ever? Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, Halo etc etc...
If people want to read the lore, and codify canon for it, why is that boring?
40K used to be different. The lore was a weird mess of lies and half truths. lot of things could be true, but many times no one really knew what was true for sure. That was interesting and the fans used to understand this. But nowadays it must be just the one way, and here are the quotes. So that's boring. If the point is just to verify the facts, you can go read the Lexicanum or the books in question; there is no need for an discussion forum.
I could sum up your argument in one word.
Was.
Just because you find it boring and uninteresting doesn't mean everyone else does. Some people want to discuss the actual canon on discussion forums. In those same forum, you can discuss maybe what it *should* be like, according to yourself, but on a thread which is about current canon?
Maybe this will all be a was too, but it ain't yet.
They/them
2018/10/09 19:17:34
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Andykp wrote: The truth is that the people in the 40k setting now don’t know how the astronomicon works. They have no real idea if the corpse it’s plugged into is alive or dead, powering it or directing it. The number of people sacfificed to power it daily could actual be the only thing giving it its “light”.
Having the narrator describe what guiliman heard and felt still leaves enough ambiguity for us not to know for a fact what happened. We know what guiliman thought happened. There could be any number of explanations. I know people who believe god has spoken to them and I don’t think he has. But they “know” he has.
They know exactly how the psykers feeding the Astronomican works, the Emperor installed the technology in master of mankind. They power it, as he needed the extra power because he was having trouble fighting the daemon incursion in the webway and holding the Chaos gods back while powering and directing the Astronomican. Its the Emperor himself that directs it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 19:20:02
2018/10/09 19:21:30
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Andykp wrote: The truth is that the people in the 40k setting now don’t know how the astronomicon works. They have no real idea if the corpse it’s plugged into is alive or dead, powering it or directing it. The number of people sacfificed to power it daily could actual be the only thing giving it its “light”.
Having the narrator describe what guiliman heard and felt still leaves enough ambiguity for us not to know for a fact what happened. We know what guiliman thought happened. There could be any number of explanations. I know people who believe god has spoken to them and I don’t think he has. But they “know” he has.
They know exactly how the psykers feeding the Astronomican works, the Emperor installed the technology in master of mankind. They power it, as he needed the extra power because he was having trouble fighting the daemon incursion in the webway and holding the Chaos gods back. Its the Emperor himself that directs it.
They "know" that as that's what they are told. How many things IRL do we "know" right now as that is simply what we are told to be the truth?
The Mechanicus nowadays don't have a fething clue how it works, as this was kinda a huge plot point pre 8th ed. They had to resort to the Dark Eldar (IIRC) to find a method to fix it.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2018/10/09 19:25:33
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
The 40k setting was written as an open sand box for games to be set in. Lord of rings and starwars were stories first. 40k deliberately ambiguous, starwars an actual linear story. (Except in episode release order). The BLHH version of events is one version but there are many more from many perspectives. Many not yet written. Some people on here take a books word as gospel but dismiss the writings in an earlier book. Seemingly not realising that one day a book will replace the one they swear is “fact”.
At the end of the day we don’t know what GW plan to do with the setting. The authors of the books you claim to be so reliable urge you to not take everything in them literally. The point of this discussion forum is to discuss the background. The background is still thankfully ambiguous enough to allow you to tell your own story in it. My groups games are all set in a remote area in the dark imperium so the people there’s knowledge of the emperor and things would be nothing to do what was in those books. They wouldn’t know a thing about the HH in detail, it would be mythical legend time. Same with guiliman coming to see the emperor. 40k is a game first. The story is their to support the game and sell models.
In summary I think people need to take it less seriously, it isn’t history your debating here it’s a fictional war game setting. To me there is no difference between head cannon and official cannon. It’s all as valid as anything else from someone’s view point. The eldar don’t think the same about the emperor as the humans do etc.
2018/10/09 19:29:04
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Andykp wrote: The truth is that the people in the 40k setting now don’t know how the astronomicon works. They have no real idea if the corpse it’s plugged into is alive or dead, powering it or directing it. The number of people sacfificed to power it daily could actual be the only thing giving it its “light”.
Having the narrator describe what guiliman heard and felt still leaves enough ambiguity for us not to know for a fact what happened. We know what guiliman thought happened. There could be any number of explanations. I know people who believe god has spoken to them and I don’t think he has. But they “know” he has.
They know exactly how the psykers feeding the Astronomican works, the Emperor installed the technology in master of mankind. They power it, as he needed the extra power because he was having trouble fighting the daemon incursion in the webway and holding the Chaos gods back. Its the Emperor himself that directs it.
They "know" that as that's what they are told. How many things IRL do we "know" right now as that is simply what we are told to be the truth?
The Mechanicus nowadays don't have a fething clue how it works, as this was kinda a huge plot point pre 8th ed. They had to resort to the Dark Eldar (IIRC) to find a method to fix it.
The mechanicus dont “know” how most things work. That’s why they pray to engines. They build things and repair them without any understanding of how they work. That’s the point. As above, they didn’t know how to fix it. Big E might have but that doesn’t mean the adepts in the 40000s have any clue. Feed more people to it and keep hoping.
2018/10/09 19:33:24
Subject: Re:Was there ever any doubt that the Emperor is still alive?
Just because you find it boring and uninteresting doesn't mean everyone else does. Some people want to discuss the actual canon on discussion forums. In those same forum, you can discuss maybe what it *should* be like, according to yourself, but on a thread which is about current canon?
Maybe this will all be a was too, but it ain't yet.
40K still has no hard canon, it never had. People just don't get it.
Spoiler:
Marc Gascoigne, former head of Black Library wrote:
"Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about “canonical background” will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history…
Here’s our standard line: Yes it’s all official, but remember that we’re reporting back from a time where stories aren’t always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.
Let’s put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex… and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.
I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a “big question” doesn’t matter. It’s all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is “Yes and no” or perhaps “Sometimes”. And for me, that’s the end of it.
Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note that answer may well be “sometimes” or “it varies” or “depends”.
But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.
It’s a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nuclear war; that nails it for me."
Furthermore, the speculation about the Ynnari plot or Guilliman being nuts are perfectly valid even in the light of the books being quoted. If only thing we can do is to quote stated facts as they appear in books without inserting any personal interpretation, what's the fething point? As i said, read the bloody book, then you know what it says, no discussion needed.
