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 Irbis wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
For what it's worth, GW have actually given BT Sword Brethren and even the Holy Orb in the Vigilus book.

Sure, it costs a CP to make them Sword Brethren, and more CP to use the stuff they get (ignoring wounds on a 5+ and rerolling wounds in melee+1 Attack), but hey, it's there.

The most insulting part though is that you can't make terminators, vanguard, or sternguard sword brethren for some bizarre reason. Better hope you like using company vets, cause thats all you're getting!

Is that insulting? It seems to me GW listened to people who whined BT shouldn't have these units (purely on the basis that 4th edition book didn't have them, only because it was before they were added to the game...), shrugged, and said "fine, you don't want nice veterans, then you will get old generic haphazard ones, happy now?".

If they did add vanguard and sternguard, the complains would be about forced Codexization or something instead, complete with claims on "loss" of nonexistent headcanon flavor (just look above, stuff BT had in their own book is unflavorful and badwrongfun for some reason now...). GW can't really win these days, can they?

Erm, within the context of the codex, Sternguard and Vanguard vets would be part of a sword brethren household, same with basic terminators which have always been sword brethren with access to terminator honours. How is having one of the iconic sword brethren units from previous editions be a symptom of "codexization?". I think you're just picking out a non-existent complaint to defend GW here.

Dingding we have a winner!

They were even listed as Sword Brethren Terminator Squad and Sword Brethren Assault Terminator Squad in the 4th edition Codex. Not to mention the Terminator Command Squad. Sure, I get Stern- and Vanguard not being part of the formation even though it's a bit annoying, but Lieutenants, Terminators, and Honour Guard? Wut?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
They were even listed as Sword Brethren Terminator Squad and Sword Brethren Assault Terminator Squad in the 4th edition Codex. Not to mention the Terminator Command Squad. Sure, I get Stern- and Vanguard not being part of the formation even though it's a bit annoying, but Lieutenants, Terminators, and Honour Guard? Wut?

Exactly, it's bizarrely arbitrary and seems to have happened because the models that are explicitly "sword brethren" on the GW store are resin power armour models, even though that's not the definitive sword brethren unit.

So a few responses; first in regards to Centurion. I am not saying they don’t fit flavor. Anything can fit the flavor, they simply wouldn’t add to the somewhat defined playstyle I am trying to create.

Secondly, Terminators can Deep Strike/Teleport. Centurions cannot. And also relavently no other snow flake chapter has access to Centurions (or in fairness Thunderfires which I would likely remove in next draft).

And in regards to Sword Brothern vs Stern/Vang. I said this elsewhere, and I’ll say it again. Mechanically Sword Brothern even in our original codex, if remade today best represented by Company Veterans. My rewritten rules for Sword Brothern allowed them to take 2-10 men.

And for Assault Marines? Assault Marines had a few notable variances from Crusaders. They had universal access to Storm Shields and could take up to three Power Weapons which I represented in the rewritten rules.

That said Honor Gaurd/Terminators/Liutanents should get it