Can Chaos Terminators take 2 Lightning claws?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Galef**

I don't have the Codex, but have seen several really cool dual Lightning claw Termies and Khorne Axe/Claw conversions and was wondering if it was even possible.
I have the Index, which just allows them to swap Combi's for Combi's and Melee for Melee.

Does the Codex allow them to swap their Combi-bolter for a Lightning claw, thus making dual melee weapon Terminators an option (so long as one of them is a claw)?
I'm going to model a Wolrd Eaters Termie and it just doesn't feel Khornate to have a Combi-bolter when they could get more choppy.

Also, I'll be making an Emperors Children Termie with similar aesthetics to a 30K Phoenix Terminator, so he'll have a 2-handed pole arm sword (using an Eldar Wraith blade)
As 40K Termies all have Combi-bolter (usless my above question is possible), would a wrist mounted Combi-bolter look too out of place?
And what weapon is closest to a Phoenix Terminator's weapon? Power Axe? Power maul?

Thanx

-

**Aelyn**

Galef wrote:
I don't have the Codex...

The forum is not a replacement for the rules. If you don't want to get the codex now, your local store might have an open copy or there may be someone who can show you their copy, but you'll need the codex to play with the models anyway.

Galef wrote:
IAlso, I'll be making an Emperors Children Termie with similar aesthetics to a 30K Phoenix Terminator, so he'll have a 2-handed pole arm sword (using an Eldar Wraith blade)
As 40K Termies all have Combi-bolter (usless my above question is possible), would a wrist mounted Combi-bolter look too out of place?
And what weapon is closest to a Phoenix Terminator's weapon? Power Axe? Power maul?

I think the wrist-mounted storm bolters on grey knights look great, so would expect combi-bolters to also look good. As for the weapon, a two-handed glaive feels more like an axe to me than anything else.

**RobS**

Galef wrote:
I don't have the Codex, but have seen several really cool dual Lightning claw Termies and Khorne Axe/Claw conversions and was wondering if it was even possible.
I have the Index, which just allows them to swap Combi's for Combi's and Melee for Melee.

Does the Codex allow them to swap their Combi-bolter for a Lightning claw, thus making dual melee weapon Terminators an option (so long as one of them is a claw)?
I'm going to model a Wolrd Eaters Termie and it just doesn't feel Khornate to have a Combi-bolter when they could get more choppy.

Also, I'll be making an Emperors Children Termie with similar aesthetics to a 30K Phoenix Terminator, so he'll have a 2-handed pole arm sword (using an Eldar Wraith blade)
As 40K Termies all have Combi-bolter (usless my above question is possible), would a wrist mounted Combi-bolter look too out of place?
And what weapon is closest to a Phoenix Terminator's weapon? Power Axe?

Thanx

-

In a word, yes. I don't have the Codex in front of me but you can swap the combi weapon for a melee weapon, I think.
There may be specific wording about the lightning claws but you can do it.

I'm also building up a Khorne terminator assault squad with lightning claws. Going to have to build them myself though for a suitably baroque look. Currently planning to combine some cataphractii terminator claws with some AoS Gorefists.

**Mmmpi**

It's either give up your melee weapon for a lighting claw, or give up both it and your gun for two.

**Galef**

Aelyn wrote:
Galef wrote:
I don't have the Codex...

The forum is not a replacement for the rules. If you don't want to get the codex now, your local store might have an open copy or there may be someone who can show you their copy, but you'll need the codex to play with the models anyway.

This is indeed why I didn't post this 2 days ago when I first wanted to ask.
But my LGS does not have an open copy and I do not play CSMs. But I do model and paint them and just wanted to know if a potential build was possible, because I doing it regardless.
Was just curious if an actual CSM player could build their Termies in this manner
I made an executive decision that my question was not breaking forum rules as I am asking if a build is possible, which has a modeling and discussion aspect.

I also wanted to discuss the potential aesthetics and build likelyhoods that are most common for 40k World Eaters that may have descended from 30K Red Butchers and 40K Emperor's Children descended from Phoenix terminators.
Since my question involves a discussion of rules, background AND modeling, I decided to post it in the General Discussion as the best option.

-

**RobS**

Galef wrote:
Aelyn wrote:
Galef wrote:
I don't have the Codex...

The forum is not a replacement for the rules. If you don't want to get the codex now, your local store might have an open copy or there may be someone who can show you their copy, but you'll need the codex to play with the models anyway.
This is indeed why I didn't post this 2 days ago when I first wanted to ask.
But my LGS does not have an open copy and I do not play CSMs. But I do model and paint them and just wanted to know if a potential build was possible, because I doing it regardless.
Was just curious if an actual CSM player could build their Termies in this manner
I made an executive decision that my question was not breaking forum rules as I am asking if a build is possible, which has a modeling and discussion aspect.

I also wanted to discuss the potential aesthetics and build likelyhoods that are most common for 40k World Eaters that may have descended from 30K Red Butchers and 40K Emperor's Children descended from Phoenix terminators.
Since my question involves a discussion of rules, background AND modeling, I decided to post it in the General Discussion as the best option.

-

I know where you are coming from - I'm not likely to game much with my army but I wanted to convert them and build them within the rules.

I'm giving my Chaos Lord a single lightning claw and a chainfist. Because cool. But because I'm awkward I wanted the lightining claw on his left hand so I'm having to model up a right-handed chainfist.

**Galef**

RobS wrote:
I'm giving my Chaos Lord a single lightning claw and a chainfist. Because cool. But because I'm awkward I wanted the lightining claw on his left hand so I'm having to model up a right-handed chainfist.

Yeah I'm modeling mine a bit weird too.
He'll have the Axe in the right and the claw on left (converted from the power fist the kit comes with, but with added claws).
What is awkward about that is that you if you swap the Combi-bolter for the claw, it should be on the right, since Combi-bolters are apparently all right-handed

But one of the things I like about Chaos models is that there is a lot more options for aesthetics than Loyalists, because Warbands do not adhere to particular doctrine or have "factory assembly line" wargear options, often just using what they have or, more likely, what they take.

-

**Crispy78**

Yes, 2 lightning claws is allowed

**Galef**

Mmmpi wrote:
It's either give up your melee weapon for a lighting claw, or give up both it and your gun for two.

Crispy78 wrote:
Yes, 2 lightning claws is allowed

But it sounds like Lightning claw + Axe is not allowed. I'm still doing it though...

RobS wrote:
Because cool.

-

**Table**

Its possible but who would want to? If your doing it for modeling purposes go for it, you will find you have to kitbash or go with expensive bits to do it since dual lightning claw models are not in existence for chaos terminators. I think the Chaos Lord in Term Armor has a pair and that's it. At least this is the correct information from a bit ago when I was trying to build dual claw terms for my old BL army. If you are doing it for ingame reasons, don't. Lightning claws are terrible now at the price you pay for them.

**Crispy78**

Yeah, the CSM terminator box doesn't actually come with *any* lightning claws. I used the ones from the raptor / warp talon box.

**Galef**

Well, the 2 power fists the set comes with have sharp pointy fingers. It isn't a stretch to just extent those into claws and you're done. In fact, that is exactly what I will be doing, just replacing the finger tips with longer blades.

But, the set does not come with right-handed power fists, so I either have to use a Combi-weapon (boring and not very Khorne WE Red Butcher-like) or just cut the Combi-bolter off one of the arms and replace it with an Axe, which is very much Khonrate.

This particular project is meant to match my Imperial Terminators, of which I have:
1 GK with Halberd and SB
1 Salamander with TH/SS
1 Wolf Guard with Lighnting claws
1 Flesh Tearer with PF/SB
1 Deathwing with PF/SB

So that's a Terminator from each SM Codex, and all of them have iconic/common wargear for their faction

For Chaos I already have:
1 Black Legion w/ axe and combi-melta
1 Death guard with Combi-flamer (plague spewer) and Scythe (power axe)

And in addition to the WE and EC terminators that are the subject of this thread, I am also adding a Tsons Terminator with Combi-bolter and Power sword.
Both the Tsons and WE will have their iconic head piece similar to Rubrics and Berserkers.
So I'll also have 1 Terminator per Codex, plus 1 for each god-aligned legion.

5 terminators on each side. And maybe some day I'll play a 5v5 game where each Terminator is their own unit equipped as-is.

-

**RobS**

Galef wrote:
Well, the 2 power fists the set comes with have sharp pointy fingers. It isn't a stretch to just extent those into claws and you're done. In fact, that is exactly what I will be doing, just replacing the finger tips with longer blades.

But, the set does not come with right-handed power fists, so I either have to use a Combi-weapon (boring and not very Khorne WE Red Butcher-like) or just cut the Combi-bolter off one of the arms and replace it with an Axe, which is very much Khonrate.

This particular project is meant to match my Imperial Terminators, of which I have:
1 GK with Halberd and SB
1 Salamander with TH/SS
1 Wolf Guard with Lighnting claws
1 Flesh Tearer with PF/SB
1 Deathwing with PF/SB

So that's a Terminator from each SM Codex, and all of them have iconic/common wargear for their faction

For Chaos I already have:
1 Black Legion w/ axe and combi-melta
1 Death guard with Combi-flamer (plague spewer) and Scythe (power axe)

And in addition to the WE and EC terminators that are the subject of this thread, I am also adding a Tsons Terminator with Combi-bolter and Power sword.
Both the Tsons and WE will have their iconic head piece similar to Rubrics and Berserkers.
So I'll also have 1 Terminator per Codex, plus 1 for each god-aligned legion.

5 terminators on each side. And maybe some day I'll play a 5v5 game where each Terminator is their own unit equipped as-is.

-

This is a cool project. I don't know for sure but I can't think of a reason a CSM terminator can't have two different melee weapons. A lord or exalted champ certainly can.

I had a similar idea of a chaos vs imperial terminator game. Maybe a Space Hull type scenario?

**Raichase**

Unless they've put it in an errata and I've missed it, you can't legally give a Chaos Terminator an axe/claw combo.

Basically you have a terminator armed with a combi-bolter and power axe. He can replace both of those with a pair of lightning claws, or replace his power axe with a melee weapon and his combi-bolter with a different combi-weapon.

I'm assuming this is because the rules are now written to fit the models available, rather than the rules being written for whatever the models could be armed with by converting them. Which is disappointing, I think an axe/claw combo would be worse during a game than either the pair of lighting claws or the combi-bolter/claw option... Thankfully it's just a modelling/painting project, so the exact rules don't matter! Rule of cool says go for it.

**techsoldaten**

A Chaos Terminator Lord comes with a power sword and a combi bolter. Both the power sword and the combi bolter can be swapped for anything from the Terminator Melee Weapons list.

Which means, you can have dual lightning claws, an axe + claw combo, or whatever else you want. Any Terminator Melee Weapon can replace the stock item in any combination.

The real question is... why not magnetize the model for weapon swaps? If you ever do get around to playing them, you might find both combinations are sub-optimal. Twin Lightning Claws are expensive and you might find you really need a combi-plasma at some point.

**BaconCatBug**

Because Magnetising infantry is a massive pain and not worth the effort. If you want to do arm swaps on infantry, you should pin them.

**Brutus_Apex**

The lightning claws from the Warp Talon box is the best for conversions.

I've used them on my Terminators for duel lightning claws and they look great. Better actually than the oversized ones on the Loyalist terminators. They don't look like Gorilla arms.

**Galef**

For my Khorne terminator, I'm content to have claw and axe and if I ever used it in a game, it'd count-as dual claws.
Khorne just looks best with an Axe and since it's easy to just remodel the right hand with the axe and turn the left handed power fist into a claw, that is my solution.

**NurglesR0T**

Battlescribe will list out what options are available.

It's no replacement for owning the codex obviously but will suffice most of the time.

**RobS**

Galef wrote:
For my Khorne terminator, I'm content to have claw and axe and if I ever used it in a game, it'd count-as dual claws.
Khorne just looks best with an Axe and since it's easy to just remodel the right hand with the axe and turn the left handed power fist into a claw, that is my solution.

I agree with this!

In fact, I might change my plans slightly and give the champ of my Khorne terminator lightning claw squad an axe and a claw because it would look boss.

But yes, rules only allow a warlord to take a single lightning claw and another melee weapon.

Can you actually buy chaos termis with LCs?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and although no game experience as yet it seems to me that terminators with lightning claws would be very effective at tearing through lightly armoured infantry hordes.

**Galef**

RobS wrote:

Can you actually buy chaos termis with LCs?

Yes and no. The 5-man Termie box does not have Claws, but the Termie Lord does. GW just recently sold the 2 sets in a single box. So in that regard, you could get a single set of claws for the unit.

But as I mentioned earlier, the Power Fist is easily converted to a Lightning claw by cutting the fingertips and replacing them with long blades, which is what I've done for mine.
Heck, for my bike Lord and Black legion champion, I just painted the fingertips silver and they kinda look like Claws without conversion

-

**RobS**

Galef wrote:
RobS wrote:

Can you actually buy chaos termis with LCs?
Yes and no. The 5-man Termie box does not have Claws, but the Termie Lord does. GW just recently sold the 2 sets in a single box. So in that regard, you could get a single set of claws for the unit.

But as I mentioned earlier, the Power Fist is easily converted to a Lightning claw by cutting the fingertips and replacing them with long blades, which is what I've done for mine.
Heck, for my bike Lord and Black legion champion, I just painted the fingertips silver and they kinda look like Claws without conversion

-

My warlord has Giegor Fell-hands claw with the wolfy pattern filled in with green stuff. And the squaddies are going to have Legion LCs chopped together with AoS gore fists.

I'll post them when they are done. Haven't decided on the champ yet. Might just make him a cool model and forget WYSIWYG. Don't really like the combi weapon look for an assault guy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just had a good idea, combi bolter mounted on the back of a chainfist, axe in the other hand.
Just ignore one of the melee weapons for game-legal purposes.

**Fallenbourne**

I can second using warp talon arms as a alternative LC. I can also suggest using the cataphractii pattern termi armor with LC's. I put skulls and spikes on a set I have and it came out pretty good. I run them with my Termi lord with LC and Chainfist. For that model I ended up buying a Tyberos model and using the arms on a chaos termi lord.

**RobS**

Fallenbourne wrote:
I can second using warp talon arms as a alternative LC. I can also suggest using the cataphractii pattern termi armor with LC's. I put skulls and spikes on a set I have and it came out pretty good. I run them with my Termi lord with LC and Chainfist. For that model I ended up buying a Tyberos model and using the arms on a chaos termi lord.

Hah, that's funny. I have made one CSM terminator already with warp talon/raptor lightning claws, and I'm planning to model the rest out of cataphractii LCs. I am also in the process of building my chaos terminator lord with a LC and a chainfist!

Got any pictures of the finished cataphracti LC models? I've been wondering exactly how to do the conversion, whether to keep the armour strips or file them off...etc.

**Fallenbourne**

I don't have any pictures on me. All I really did was pile skulls and spikes on top on the armor. Didn't need to file anything off as there isn't any iconography on them. I would have done some head swaps but the gorget/collar makes that really difficult.

I kept the armor strips as I am a fan of the way it looks. I'll get some pics up later.

**akaean**

Crispy78 wrote:
Yeah, the CSM terminator box doesn't actually come with *any* lightning claws. I used the ones from the raptor / warp talon box.

The one? The one? The Raptor / Warp Talon box comes with an ocean of lightning claws, if you build the Raptor Squad you will have more lightning claw bits than you know what to do with. Claw for you! Claw for you! Everyone gets a claw!

Seriously, if you like lightning claws, the Raptor / Warp Talon box is a really great box for bits.

**Avatar 720**

akaean wrote:
Crispy78 wrote:
Yeah, the CSM terminator box doesn't actually come with *any* lightning claws. I used the ones from the raptor / warp talon box.

The one? The one? The Raptor / Warp Talon box comes with an ocean of lightning claws, if you build the Raptor Squad you will have more lightning claw bits than you know what to do with. Claw for you! Claw for you! Everyone gets a claw!

Seriously, if you like lightning claws, the Raptor / Warp Talon box is a really great box for bits.

The ones.

**RobS**

akaean wrote:
Crispy78 wrote:
Yeah, the CSM terminator box doesn't actually come with *any* lightning claws. I used the ones from the raptor / warp talon box.

The one? The one? The Raptor / Warp Talon box comes with an ocean of lightning claws, if you build the Raptor Squad you will have more lightning claw bits than you know what to do with. Claw for you! Claw for you! Everyone gets a claw!

Seriously, if you like lightning claws, the Raptor / Warp Talon box is a really great box for bits.

Damnit - I am planning to get some Warp talons at some point - I should have got them first so I could spread the LC love out amongst my guys.

**Galef**

I got my Chaos Termies done:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/765973.page#10208337

**NH Gunsmith**

The plastic Horus Heresy boxes come with claws that attach to Power Fists to make them lightning claws, they are dirt cheap online as well.