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If you could make another legion go the way of the II and XI what would it be. I think the DA's would be cool, they could still exist, still fight for the Imperium but the Imperium could have wiped their legion from the records.

None. having legions just be dissappered would suck, they all have their fans, and having any get wiped, even if still existing would really suck for the players.

BrianDavion wrote:
None. having legions just be dissappered would suck, they all have their fans, and having any get wiped, even if still existing would really suck for the players.

I never said they would disappear, did you even read my comment.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
None. having legions just be dissappered would suck, they all have their fans, and having any get wiped, even if still existing would really suck for the players.

I never said they would disappear, did you even read my comment.

I did but to vanish that much from history, realisticly they'd have to basicly dissapper.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
None. having legions just be dissappered would suck, they all have their fans, and having any get wiped, even if still existing would really suck for the players.

I never said they would disappear, did you even read my comment.

I did but to vanish that much from history, realisticly they'd have to basicly dissapper.

No they wouldn't, not in the slightest. We know about them, you can't erase them, but the Imperium can and the DA could go on there own way.

To be fair, your OP did say "go the way of the II and XI", which has an instance implication of "disappear or forgotten without a trace". Whether that was your intention is irrelevant, the "idea" is put in our heads when worded that way.

But if you instead meant Excommunicated, that's another thing. DA's already have half a Legion that the Chapter itself has unofficially "excommunicated" and don't want the wider Imperium to know about.
To do the same for the rest of them would be....odd. Although, it's feasible if Terra were to find out about the events post-Heresy and thus excommunicate the rest of the DAs and all their successors.

But no. We're pretty past the point in which any Legion, loyal or traitor, can be "forgotten"

-

A full first founding legion - agreed.

A second + founding chapter, though, can (and has) definitely been airbrushed out of history where the need arises. The Fist Exemplar as a case in point - and arguably the Grey Knights (not sure of their current status on that front)

locarno24 wrote:
A full first founding legion - agreed.

A second + founding chapter, though, can (and has) definitely been airbrushed out of history where the need arises. The Fist Exemplar as a case in point - and arguably the Grey Knights (not sure of their current status on that front)

the fists exemplar where only 2000 years old at the time.

the thing is, more to the point "what would be the point"? if they kept the faction around you have a SERIOUS disconnect of "all the players have heard of these guys but... EVERYONE IN UNIVERSE HAS FORGOTTEN!"

GW has eneugh trouble keeping chaos straight. the lost legions only work because GW's kept such a strong lid on them on an OOC level

It'd only have even the slightest chance of making sense with a founding legion that has a long history of chaffing with the Imperium as a whole - as in, the Space Wolves, though even then it'd be a massive stretch.

And the lost legions are only "lost" to give players creative freedom to make up their own fluff.
You would not have this for an existing Chapter/legion that already has well-established fluff.

-

I don't think the IOM would ever allow a first founding chapter die out at least in name. Lets say totally hypothetically that the entire chapter of say the Imperial Fists died to man in some great calamity or crisis. I'd imagine that they would quickly pull in successor marines, repaint them and pretend everything is fine. Then we use the geneseed stock to slowly regrow that chapter. The moral blow of a Legions passing is not something that could be allowed.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
If you could make another legion go the way of the II and XI what would it be. I think the DA's would be cool, they could still exist, still fight for the Imperium but the Imperium could have wiped their legion from the records.

The Ultramarines. If for no other reason than to piss off Matt Ward.

 Sasquatch wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
If you could make another legion go the way of the II and XI what would it be. I think the DA's would be cool, they could still exist, still fight for the Imperium but the Imperium could have wiped their legion from the records.

The Ultramarines. If for no other reason than to piss off Matt Ward.

*takes a shot*

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, your OP did say "go the way of the II and XI", which has an instance implication of "disappear or forgotten without a trace". Whether that was your intention is irrelevant, the "idea" is put in our heads when worded that way.

But if you instead meant Excommunicated, that's another thing. DA's already have half a Legion that the Chapter itself has unofficially "excommunicated" and don't want the wider Imperium to know about.
To do the same for the rest of them would be....odd. Although, it's feasible if Terra were to find out about the events post-Heresy and thus excommunicate the rest of the DAs and all their successors.

But no. We're pretty past the point in which any Legion, loyal or traitor, can be "forgotten"

-

To be fair I added an explanation after that...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
A full first founding legion - agreed.

A second + founding chapter, though, can (and has) definitely been airbrushed out of history where the need arises. The Fist Exemplar as a case in point - and arguably the Grey Knights (not sure of their current status on that front)

the fists exemplar where only 2000 years old at the time.

the thing is, more to the point "what would be the point"? if they kept the faction around you have a SERIOUS disconnect of "all the players have heard of these guys but... EVERYONE IN UNIVERSE HAS FORGOTTEN!"

GW has eneugh trouble keeping chaos straight. the lost legions only work because GW's kept such a strong lid on them on an OOC level

All the legions knew of the II and XI and the rest of the universe had not. Same with daemons, the Imperium has managed to keep them a secret, its not a matter if it could happen, its a matter if you would want it to happen. Wouldn't bother me with my SW's, I'd think it was cool, the Imperium already see us as heretics.

yeah see, thats the thing, what I want is stuff that makes sense, will move the story forward and is reasonably possiable.

It's all fine and dandy to say "I want GW to give me free Minis" but that's so unlikely it's simply not worth discussing. what you propose is in the same catagory.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Lets say totally hypothetically that the entire chapter of say the Imperial Fists died to man in some great calamity or crisis.

I was going to say, "You mean again?" but then I realised that's the joke. Well played.

BrianDavion wrote:
yeah see, thats the thing, what I want is stuff that makes sense, will move the story forward and is reasonably possiable.

It's all fine and dandy to say "I want GW to give me free Minis" but that's so unlikely it's simply not worth discussing. what you propose is in the same catagory.

Makes sense like the first two lost legions. Yeah that happening again is impossible. It would move the story lightyears, it would give an abundance of stories and clashes with the Imperium, you just don't like the possibility that your smurfs won't be as clean and shiny as they are. Plus it could be like the SM game, the chapter has to go rogue and prove its innocent, I think that would be so cool and totally willing for my Chapter to go through it.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
yeah see, thats the thing, what I want is stuff that makes sense, will move the story forward and is reasonably possiable.

It's all fine and dandy to say "I want GW to give me free Minis" but that's so unlikely it's simply not worth discussing. what you propose is in the same catagory.

Makes sense like the first two lost legions. Yeah that happening again is impossible. It would move the story lightyears, it would give an abundance of stories and clashes with the Imperium, you just don't like the possibility that your smurfs won't be as clean and shiny as they are. Plus it could be like the SM game, the chapter has to go rogue and prove its innocent, I think that would be so cool and totally willing for my Chapter to go through it.

the two lost legions have been lost since the beginnings of the great crusade, always have been. even we the fans have no idea who they are which is why it works. Also they're not around and active, which is, yet again why it works. we have other examples of Legions who where effectively scrubbed from IoM records, All the ones that went traitor. due to simply existing scrubbing their records isn't as effective.
thats what I'm saying, it's not some lame attempt to protect the Ultramarines (scurbbing the Ultramarines from existance is doubly impossiable, I roll my eyes at any one who'd reply with UMs as an answer because it's proof positive they're just trying to be edgy and aren't thinking things through) it's because it simply wouldn't work, and it might move the story, byt Gulliman and Abbaddon agreeing to settle the fate of humanity with a Dance off would move the story, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. The story being moved in 40k is something that needs to be approuched VERY carefully, and it should ALWAYS be done with an eye towards improving the experiance for players.