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"This one was a monster - Twelve feet tall and boasting a horned helm, a tattered cloak of flayed skin and a sword that could fell a Valhallan frostoak. Before the Space Marines had dropped in to join the fight, Kreshnov had seen that giant cut Commissar Draski in half with a single swing, and flip the platoon's command Chimera onto its roof with just his gauntleted hands." - Dark Angels 7th Edition Codex, Pg. 27
A Chaos Marine lifting 40 tons.
"Amakyre dodged backwards and let himself fall from the platform rather than face Veq's blade, honed from the heart of a star and white-hot to all but Veq himself.
Gunfire erupted again from below. Veq swatted away a score of bullets from the Obliterator and caught three more with his free hand, throwing them back down to the floor of the bridge with a curse. The young one, the most dangerous, fired a well-aimed shot at his temple, but Veq flicked his head to the side and the silenced bolt flittered past him.
Veq took two steps and leapt, dropping through the lattice of bullet trails to land directly in front of the Obliterator whose every weapon was blazing at him from point-blank range. The star-sword cut through the air as Veq met every bullet, sending a sparkling fan of deflected fire in every direction.
The hulking Obliterator reeled as several of its own bullets punched through its biomechanical body. The flesh of one arm became fluid, extruded, and solidified into a blade of bone with gnawing teeth at the cutting edge. Veq ducked the first blow and parried the second, shearing the first blade in two as a barbed whip, tipped with a lamprey-like mouth, lashed from the Obliterator's other arm. Veq grabbed the lash, wrapped it round his fist, and used it to swing the Obliterator hard into the wall by the doorway.
Armour split and cracked. Corrupted blood spilled. Veq paused to dodge more bolter fire from the other Word Bearers who were falling back through the doorway." / Daemon Worldgons, p.472 -
"Plague Marines shot at him. Those shots that Gammadin did not slap out of the air, he took against his shoulder plates. Shrapnel puffed against him." / Blood Gorgons, p.159 - **
Slaps rounds out of the air.
"As the shell seared past, Rangar threw himself flat behind the low pile of rubble trying to make himself as small a target as possible. That had been close, too close. The shot had almost parted his hair. Only his lightning quick reflexes, and the microsecond's warning provided by his superhuman senses had got him out of the way. If he had ducked half a heartbeat later, his head would have been an exploding fountain of gore and bone." / The Space Wolf Omnibus, p.269 -
And hear Ragnar dodges a bolt round with microsecond reactions/warning.
"Combat reflexes took over and Rafen drew his bolt pistol in a fraction of a second, his other hand snatching at the hilt of the battle knife resting in a sheath along the line of his spine. He fired a single shot at the High Chaplain, aiming low, aiming to wound, to slow him down. But he might well have called out his intentions in a shout. Astorath swept his blade aside and intercepted the bolt mid-flight with a crack of sound, the round blasting harmlessly into the dirt. Rafen dodged to one side as the weapon's fast, fluid arc bisected the space where he had been standing, and he rolled, tumbling over red dirt and half-buried rocks."Pgs.231-232 H&B 16 – Redeemed (Hammer and Bolter).
"The gue'ron'sha war-leader was coming around, looking right in her direction despite her stealth field. She levelled her fusion blasters and loosed parallel shots right at him. As the vaporising blasts hit his bike, the vehicle burst apart in an explosion of molten metal and steam. Somehow, though, the warrior had hurled himself free a matter of microseconds before the shot hit home."
-Damocles
Kor'sarro Khan leaps out of the way of a Tau energy beam in a matter of microseconds. This is above bullet timing and microsecond reaction as well. This is a named Captain Marine, but he dodged a Tau beam faster than bullets in a matter of microseconds. That was from the book "Damocles".
"VENDATHA WAS NOT a fool. He knew the odds of surviving the
next few moments were slim, and he knew a primarch’s reflexes
were the peak of biological possibility, faster than even his own,
which bordered on the preternatural.
But Lorgar was at ease, his muscles loose. He actually expected
his offer of truce to hold some weight, and that lapse in judgement
was enough for Vendatha to take the chance. He pulled the
haft-trigger, and his spear’s underslung bolter cracked off a
stream of rounds on full-auto.
Argel Tal saw it coming. The swords of red iron smashed the
first three bolts aside, their power fields strong enough to detonate
the shells as they streaked towards the primarch’s heart. The
explosions threw the captain to the ground, his grey armour
scraping along the stone with the shriek of offended ceramite."
The First Heretic, Chapter 15
It doesn't make sense for Cain to defeat a Marine since they can bullet time and lift 10 tons at minimum (and 40 or more tons going with certain Marines like a few Chaos Marines). And from what I know, Cain got lucky after being thrown around. Gaunt also got lucky as he was thrown around. Besides, The Cain are unreliable in-universe texts in any case.
And I am not going to start a debate, this is just to show that Marines have bullet timed and that some can lift weight close to a tank. But people are probably going to start a debate here anyway with a different topic
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/24 18:54:11
Okay, I'm honestly confused what you think the purpose of the 40K background forum is to be honest. You state that you don't aim to create a debate here (which, to be fair, I don't really see a discussion worthy topic) but that in itself violates the point of posting a thread in the Background subforum, which is meant to facilitate discussion about the fluff. The whole point of a forum is to discuss and debate the appropriate topics in the appropriate areas. As others have mentioned before, this is not a chatroom, nor your personal blog. If you want to post things you find interesting without feedback, this is not the place to do it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/24 19:03:47
I'm not starting debate, am I? And this fits in background. Not starting a debate. But people will probably start a debate here unrelated to this thread.
Onething123456 wrote: I'm not starting debate, am I? And this fits in background. Not starting a debate. But people will probably start a debate here unrelated to this thread.
Did you read what I wrote? That's what I'm saying, this sub-forum is not for dumping book quotes and making inane statements. As quoted in the "What is this forum for?" stickied thread:
"40K Background Forum is for serious discussion and research of the 40K background stories known as fluff.
This includes asking and answering sensible questions about life in the 40K era, which might relate to all kinds of Imperial and Xeno military or civilian life providing your discussion remains based in the “serious” 40K universe."
So you've explicitly said that you don't want to start a debate, which goes against the purpose of this sub-forum. If you don't want discussion, why bother posting this thread? As a sort of PSA?
Onething123456 wrote: It doesn't make sense for Cain to defeat a Marine since they can bullet time and lift 10 tons at minimum (and 40 or more tons going with certain Marines like a few Chaos Marines). And from what I know, Cain got lucky after being thrown around. Gaunt also got lucky as he was thrown around. Besides, The Cain are unreliable in-universe texts in any case.
And I am not going to start a debate, this is just to show that Marines have bullet timed and that some can lift weight close to a tank. But people are probably going to start a debate here anyway with a different topic
But why? Why on Earth are you trying to show that? Every thread you start seems to be to prove people wrong about something. Is there a mass political movement out there I am unaware of that says Cain and Gaunt are figures we should venerate for killing Space Marines? Is it Berlusconi trying to make himself popular again? Is it a rival of Merkel trying to find a way of making her look bad?
Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.
Onething123456 wrote: It doesn't make sense for Cain to defeat a Marine since they can bullet time and lift 10 tons at minimum (and 40 or more tons going with certain Marines like a few Chaos Marines). And from what I know, Cain got lucky after being thrown around. Gaunt also got lucky as he was thrown around. Besides, The Cain are unreliable in-universe texts in any case.
And I am not going to start a debate, this is just to show that Marines have bullet timed and that some can lift weight close to a tank. But people are probably going to start a debate here anyway with a different topic
But why? Why on Earth are you trying to show that? Every thread you start seems to be to prove people wrong about something. Is there a mass political movement out there I am unaware of that says Cain and Gaunt are figures we should venerate for killing Space Marines? Is it Berlusconi trying to make himself popular again? Is it a rival of Merkel trying to find a way of making her look bad?
Not all. And this is not one of them. I asked about Warhammer World reprints. And no, nothing like that.
I am going to watch a movie if you don't mind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/24 19:22:59
Onething123456 wrote: It doesn't make sense for Cain to defeat a Marine since they can bullet time and lift 10 tons at minimum (and 40 or more tons going with certain Marines like a few Chaos Marines). And from what I know, Cain got lucky after being thrown around. Gaunt also got lucky as he was thrown around. Besides, The Cain are unreliable in-universe texts in any case.
And I am not going to start a debate, this is just to show that Marines have bullet timed and that some can lift weight close to a tank. But people are probably going to start a debate here anyway with a different topic
But why? Why on Earth are you trying to show that? Every thread you start seems to be to prove people wrong about something. Is there a mass political movement out there I am unaware of that says Cain and Gaunt are figures we should venerate for killing Space Marines? Is it Berlusconi trying to make himself popular again? Is it a rival of Merkel trying to find a way of making her look bad?
Not all. And this is not one of them. I asked about Warhammer World reprints. And no, nothing like that.
I am going to watch a movie if you don't mind.
D-Did you post in the wrong thread? You know this isn't a chatroom right? We're not talking live right now, you don't need to tell us when you're leaving.
Onething123456 wrote: It doesn't make sense for Cain to defeat a Marine since they can bullet time and lift 10 tons at minimum (and 40 or more tons going with certain Marines like a few Chaos Marines). And from what I know, Cain got lucky after being thrown around. Gaunt also got lucky as he was thrown around. Besides, The Cain are unreliable in-universe texts in any case.
And I am not going to start a debate, this is just to show that Marines have bullet timed and that some can lift weight close to a tank. But people are probably going to start a debate here anyway with a different topic
But why? Why on Earth are you trying to show that? Every thread you start seems to be to prove people wrong about something. Is there a mass political movement out there I am unaware of that says Cain and Gaunt are figures we should venerate for killing Space Marines? Is it Berlusconi trying to make himself popular again? Is it a rival of Merkel trying to find a way of making her look bad?
Not all. And this is not one of them. I asked about Warhammer World reprints. And no, nothing like that.
I am going to watch a movie if you don't mind.
No... um... you told us about Space Marines. The WHW thing was a totally different thread.
And I'm very sorry, but I simply can't permit you to just go watch a movie as if you have no other responsibilities. Get back here right now, you ungrateful, good-for-nothing reprobate.
Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.
Space Marines, much like Goku and Superman are often as strong/fast/durable as the plot needs them to be. There has been some pretty wide inconsistencies.
Grimskul wrote: Okay, I'm honestly confused what you think the purpose of the 40K background forum is to be honest. You state that you don't aim to create a debate here (which, to be fair, I don't really see a discussion worthy topic) but that in itself violates the point of posting a thread in the Background subforum, which is meant to facilitate discussion about the fluff. The whole point of a forum is to discuss and debate the appropriate topics in the appropriate areas. As others have mentioned before, this is not a chatroom, nor your personal blog. If you want to post things you find interesting without feedback, this is not the place to do it.
What's there to be confused? Thread is for him to post quotes for book chatroom style. That's what all his threads are all about. Nothing to be confused. You see his name as author of thread you know what the thread is all about to begin with.
The first quote seems to describe a daemon prince, the rest are BL authors being over enthusiastic. Capabilities of marines vary greatly depending on the author. Besides, it is not uncommon for normal humans in heroic adventure fiction to dodge bullets; James Bond or Batman can do it too, and they have no superpowers. Normal humans can defeat marines if writer wants it to happen.
Crimson wrote: The first quote seems to describe a daemon prince, the rest are BL authors being over enthusiastic. Capabilities of marines vary greatly depending on the author. Besides, it is not uncommon for normal humans in heroic adventure fiction to dodge bullets; James Bond or Batman can do it too, and they have no superpowers. Normal humans can defeat marines if writer wants it to happen.
That wasn't a Marine, it was a Chaos champion. And Chaos champions are commonly defeated by the best loyalist marines.
And every time a normal human has defeated a Marine, he got lucky and was getting thrown around before that.
Grimskul wrote: Okay, I'm honestly confused what you think the purpose of the 40K background forum is to be honest. You state that you don't aim to create a debate here (which, to be fair, I don't really see a discussion worthy topic) but that in itself violates the point of posting a thread in the Background subforum, which is meant to facilitate discussion about the fluff. The whole point of a forum is to discuss and debate the appropriate topics in the appropriate areas. As others have mentioned before, this is not a chatroom, nor your personal blog. If you want to post things you find interesting without feedback, this is not the place to do it.
What's there to be confused? Thread is for him to post quotes for book chatroom style. That's what all his threads are all about. Nothing to be confused. You see his name as author of thread you know what the thread is all about to begin with.
I guess to clarify, I should have said that I'm confused as to why he continues to do so when he's been told otherwise by multiple forum members, including a mod at some point. Is it a matter of reading comprehension issues, wilful ignorance or trolling? I feel like its a mix of the first two.
And Chaos champions are commonly defeated by the best loyalist marines. Not a Daemon Prince, it was a Chaos Marine.
And every time a normal human has defeated a Marine, he got lucky and was getting thrown around before that. It wasn't skill or strength,; it was luck.
James Bond and Batman aim dodge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
HoundsofDemos wrote: Space Marines, much like Goku and Superman are often as strong/fast/durable as the plot needs them to be. There has been some pretty wide inconsistencies.
Superman is planet level at best.
EDIT:
Not a debate, just thought I should say this.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2018/10/24 19:56:24
Twelve feet is taller than Guilliman. Either the writer was really confused, or that's a daemon prince.
And Chaos champions are commonly defeated by the best loyalist marines.
Sure. And the best of the normal humans can defeat marines.
I meant the Marine who swatted and caught bullets. Not the Chaos Marine who lifted 40 tons. It was probably a terminator. It was a Chaos Marine with the one who swatted and caught bullets.
Do those normal humans have superior strength and speed to Marines? Not in the least. Every time they win they get lucky and were being thrown around at first. Normal Marines can lift ten tons, bullet time a lot, and move faster than any human eyes can see.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/24 20:22:41
Do those normal humans have superior strength and speed to Marines? Not in the least. Every time they win they get lucky and were being thrown around at first. Normal Marines can lift ten tons, bullet time a lot, and move faster than any human eyes can see.
I am not disputing that marines arent physically more powerful than normal humans; of course they're that's their whole point. The differnce just is not so great that a skilled or lucky normal human couldn't overcome it, especially with a main character combat bonus.
Do those normal humans have superior strength and speed to Marines? Not in the least. Every time they win they get lucky and were being thrown around at first. Normal Marines can lift ten tons, bullet time a lot, and move faster than any human eyes can see.
I am not disputing that marines arent physically more powerful than normal humans; of course they're that's their whole point. The differnce just is not so great that a skilled or lucky normal human couldn't overcome it, especially with a main character combat bonus.
I know. And it really depends on the writer. And the Cain books are unreliable in-universe texts.
Given that normal Marines can move faster than any humans can see, dodge and catch bullets a lot of times (but not always), and lift ten tons, its a bit silly.
The quote from Ben Counter's Daemon World was a Chaos Marine.
But I'm not really debating, just saying for you to know.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/24 20:28:38
Do those normal humans have superior strength and speed to Marines? Not in the least. Every time they win they get lucky and were being thrown around at first. Normal Marines can lift ten tons, bullet time a lot, and move faster than any human eyes can see.
I am not disputing that marines arent physically more powerful than normal humans; of course they're that's their whole point. The differnce just is not so great that a skilled or lucky normal human couldn't overcome it, especially with a main character combat bonus.
I know. And it really depends on the writer. And the Cain books are unreliable in-universe texts.
Given that normal Marines can move faster than any humans can see, dodge and catch bullets a lot of times (but not always), and lift ten tons, its a bit silly.
The quote from Ben Counter's Daemon World was a Chaos Marine.
But I'm not really debating, just saying for you to know.
Thanks. I don't know how I'd know anything without coming onto Dakkadakka for you to tell me.
The quote from Ben Counter's Daemon World was a Chaos Marine.
Argueleon Veq was hardly "just" a CSM. He's the fething antagonist of the story and thus comes with a huge amount of plot armour. He is a super powerful Chaos Lord and main driving point behind the whole plot.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Black Library in particular and GW in general is very inconsistent with marines and their abilities. Some stories have them move faster than sight, throw tanks around and do back flips. Other stories are much more grounded and have them being a lot less powerful. We also have plenty of examples of humans beating a marine in combat, be it a shoot out or close combat and it's not always won by luck. The first few books from the HH in my opinion did a good job of showing marines as tough but no invincible without going over the top silly.
Do those normal humans have superior strength and speed to Marines? Not in the least. Every time they win they get lucky and were being thrown around at first. Normal Marines can lift ten tons, bullet time a lot, and move faster than any human eyes can see.
I am not disputing that marines arent physically more powerful than normal humans; of course they're that's their whole point. The differnce just is not so great that a skilled or lucky normal human couldn't overcome it, especially with a main character combat bonus.
I know. And it really depends on the writer. And the Cain books are unreliable in-universe texts.
Given that normal Marines can move faster than any humans can see, dodge and catch bullets a lot of times (but not always), and lift ten tons, its a bit silly.
The quote from Ben Counter's Daemon World was a Chaos Marine.
But I'm not really debating, just saying for you to know.
Thanks. I don't know how I'd know anything without coming onto Dakkadakka for you to tell me.
Don't forget to add the /s. He may take you literally.
Do those normal humans have superior strength and speed to Marines? Not in the least. Every time they win they get lucky and were being thrown around at first. Normal Marines can lift ten tons, bullet time a lot, and move faster than any human eyes can see.
I am not disputing that marines arent physically more powerful than normal humans; of course they're that's their whole point. The differnce just is not so great that a skilled or lucky normal human couldn't overcome it, especially with a main character combat bonus.
I know. And it really depends on the writer. And the Cain books are unreliable in-universe texts.
Given that normal Marines can move faster than any humans can see, dodge and catch bullets a lot of times (but not always), and lift ten tons, its a bit silly.
The quote from Ben Counter's Daemon World was a Chaos Marine.
But I'm not really debating, just saying for you to know.
Thanks. I don't know how I'd know anything without coming onto Dakkadakka for you to tell me.
Don't forget to add the /s. He may take you literally.
Oh I was serious. As he said, this topic is not for debate, just for information.
Actually, I'm confused. Isn't this a discussion forum?
A discussion implies a back and forth. Him posting cherry picked quotes from cherry picked books to try to prove a narrow interpretation on how something works in the setting is not a discussion.
HoundsofDemos wrote: Black Library in particular and GW in general is very inconsistent with marines and their abilities. Some stories have them move faster than sight, throw tanks around and do back flips. Other stories are much more grounded and have them being a lot less powerful. We also have plenty of examples of humans beating a marine in combat, be it a shoot out or close combat and it's not always won by luck. The first few books from the HH in my opinion did a good job of showing marines as tough but no invincible without going over the top silly.
^^^^
Basically everything in 40k is up to the author. We have Space Marines who are immune to anything less than antitank guns, and marines that die to bolter fire and simple mortars. We have Baneblade cutaway art that shows them cramped and submarine-like inside with barely any room to movr and books that talk about having Baneblades having built in command centers large enough to house a dozen standing officers. We have Eldar who can dodge bullets and slay dozens of marines without effort and Eldar who are slaughtered by the thousands by a single tac squad who sustain no casualties in the process.
Nothing in 40k is consistent.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
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HoundsofDemos wrote: A discussion implies a back and forth. Him posting cherry picked quotes from cherry picked books to try to prove a narrow interpretation on how something works in the setting is not a discussion.
With absolutely no context to those quotes.
Is it a critique of the Black Library? Is he saying that SMs should be stronger in game?
And then disingenuous about not wanting to start a debate.
HoundsofDemos wrote: A discussion implies a back and forth. Him posting cherry picked quotes from cherry picked books to try to prove a narrow interpretation on how something works in the setting is not a discussion.
With absolutely no context to those quotes.
Is it a critique of the Black Library? Is he saying that SMs should be stronger in game?
And then disingenuous about not wanting to start a debate.
General bad form...
I dunno, that's what I've been trying to figure out. He seems adamant in justifying in his very narrow minded perspective of the fluff, while basically refusing to hear out other's people's points, often quoting things that actually undermine his viewpoint. He also never seems to directly address a lot of people's arguments either. I feel like he should just start a blog if he wants an echo chamber.
Gonna join in with “what is the point of the threads this guy creates?” Makes an argument about something nobody cares about, then says he doesn’t care about having a discussion. I don’t think ANY of us on here care about quotes from BL books just spam posted. Can we have a mod come in and just let “onething” know that the forum is NOT for the kind of stuff he insists on forcing upon us?
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
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timetowaste85 wrote: Gonna join in with “what is the point of the threads this guy creates?” Makes an argument about something nobody cares about, then says he doesn’t care about having a discussion. I don’t think ANY of us on here care about quotes from BL books just spam posted. Can we have a mod come in and just let “onething” know that the forum is NOT for the kind of stuff he insists on forcing upon us?
I feel like ending this thread. I'm gonna try to look for a reprint of Rick Priestley's Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader from 1987.