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So I recently started painting up a box of Scions I had for awhile, Alphic Hydras was the scheme I really liked and as a bonus in the fluff they work close with Ultramarines.

I'm not planing on getting a bunch, 3 troop slots a command squad and the two HQ slots (But who gets just what they say they're gonna get). I don't really wanna plunge into guard but I love the look of these guys. Though the "the Loyal 32" has crossed my mind but then I'd "need" to get the Hostile Environment suit off FW cause those are awesome!

So I have a couple questions.

What can I do to make the Tempestor Primes look more unique?

How can I make the 4 Scions in the command Squad with 4 plasma guns look different?

Can Scions take Leman Russ' and other "Regiment" units freely? (I guess also where does it say it in the codex?)



Thanks!

 fraser1191 wrote:
So I recently started painting up a box of Scions I had for awhile, Alphic Hydras was the scheme I really liked and as a bonus in the fluff they work close with Ultramarines.

I'm not planing on getting a bunch, 3 troop slots a command squad and the two HQ slots (But who gets just what they say they're gonna get). I don't really wanna plunge into guard but I love the look of these guys. Though the "the Loyal 32" has crossed my mind but then I'd "need" to get the Hostile Environment suit off FW cause those are awesome!

So I have a couple questions.

What can I do to make the Tempestor Primes look more unique?

How can I make the 4 Scions in the command Squad with 4 plasma guns look different?

Can Scions take Leman Russ' and other "Regiment" units freely? (I guess also where does it say it in the codex?)



Thanks!

While I can't really help with the first two questions, to answer the third, no, they cannot take other <REGIMENT> units freely. They can't even take auxilia without losing their doctrine due to the wording of the auxilia rule. Page 84 contains the denial of using MILITARUM TEMPESTUS to replace <REGIMENT>, while page 132 details the Auxillia rule, specifically the line "Note, however, that the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS units do not themselves benefit from any Regimental Doctrine unless every unit in that Detachment is from the Militarum Tempestus (in which case they will gain the Storm Troopers doctrine)." which is a unique and more restrictive rule than other Regiments have.

Basically, while you can take Militarum Tempestus units in a <REGIMENT> detachment, the Militarum Tempestus don't benefit from a doctrine (although the <REGIMENT> units will if you stick to one <REGIMENT> ). To benefit from a doctrine, they must be isolated in their own detachment with ONLY Militarum Tempestus units (and will get the Storm Troopers doctrine). If you want to include units other than Scions and Taurox Primes (While MT can't take normal Tauroxes, any Infantry can ride in normal Tauroxes or Chimeras despite not being able to take MT as the <REGIMENT> ), while benefiting from the doctrine, you need to slap them into another detachment (which would be beneficial anyway as then the other detachment will get to be Cadian, Catachan or whatever).

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
So I recently started painting up a box of Scions I had for awhile, Alphic Hydras was the scheme I really liked and as a bonus in the fluff they work close with Ultramarines.

I'm not planing on getting a bunch, 3 troop slots a command squad and the two HQ slots (But who gets just what they say they're gonna get). I don't really wanna plunge into guard but I love the look of these guys. Though the "the Loyal 32" has crossed my mind but then I'd "need" to get the Hostile Environment suit off FW cause those are awesome!

So I have a couple questions.

What can I do to make the Tempestor Primes look more unique?

How can I make the 4 Scions in the command Squad with 4 plasma guns look different?

Can Scions take Leman Russ' and other "Regiment" units freely? (I guess also where does it say it in the codex?)



Thanks!

While I can't really help with the first two questions, to answer the third, no, they cannot take other <REGIMENT> units freely. They can't even take auxilia without losing their doctrine due to the wording of the auxilia rule. Page 84 contains the denial of using MILITARUM TEMPESTUS to replace <REGIMENT>, while page 132 details the Auxillia rule, specifically the line "Note, however, that the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS units do not themselves benefit from any Regimental Doctrine unless every unit in that Detachment is from the Militarum Tempestus (in which case they will gain the Storm Troopers doctrine)." which is a unique and more restrictive rule than other Regiments have.

Basically, while you can take Militarum Tempestus units in a <REGIMENT> detachment, the Militarum Tempestus don't benefit from a doctrine (although the <REGIMENT> units will if you stick to one <REGIMENT> ). To benefit from a doctrine, they must be isolated in their own detachment with ONLY Militarum Tempestus units (and will get the Storm Troopers doctrine). If you want to include units other than Scions and Taurox Primes (While MT can't take normal Tauroxes, any Infantry can ride in normal Tauroxes or Chimeras despite not being able to take MT as the <REGIMENT> ), while benefiting from the doctrine, you need to slap them into another detachment (which would be beneficial anyway as then the other detachment will get to be Cadian, Catachan or whatever).

That's interesting, I don't own the codex so I'll look through when I get the chance though. Maybe I'll just get another 10 Scions for a 10 man unit, Prime, and Command Squad, and build The Loyal 32. Which will Require me to probably build a Custom Regiment. I've never done anything like that before so it'll be interesting

Switching the left arm can help somewhat with plasma Scions, give your plasma gunner the medkit arm and running legs, and he'll look like he's rushing to patch someone.

You could use proxies.
I didn’t want multiple captains running around, so my second Prime is a fantasy warrior priest with a chainsword. He’s supposed to be a Schola drill abbot refreshing his experience.
An Inquisitor could fit too.

If you’re down for a bit of surgery, hot shot arms can be fitted with SM plasma guns.
http://cadiascreed40k.blogspot.com/2014/04/hobby-post-modifying-scion-plasma-gun.html
http://cadiascreed40k.blogspot.com/2015/02/guest-hobby-converted-imperial-guard.html

I'll toot my own horn here




The gal on the left is another Tempestor Prime, but I need to figure something to make her stand our more than the just the coat.

 fraser1191 wrote:
So I recently started painting up a box of Scions I had for awhile, Alphic Hydras was the scheme I really liked and as a bonus in the fluff they work close with Ultramarines.

I'm not planing on getting a bunch, 3 troop slots a command squad and the two HQ slots (But who gets just what they say they're gonna get). I don't really wanna plunge into guard but I love the look of these guys. Though the "the Loyal 32" has crossed my mind but then I'd "need" to get the Hostile Environment suit off FW cause those are awesome!

So I have a couple questions.

What can I do to make the Tempestor Primes look more unique?

How can I make the 4 Scions in the command Squad with 4 plasma guns look different?

Can Scions take Leman Russ' and other "Regiment" units freely? (I guess also where does it say it in the codex?)

Thanks!

I think there's like a coat and a pointing hand you can give the Tempestor Prime. If you're using the gas-mask heads you can give the boss-man a beret head too.

I can't help you there. You'll need to do lots of cutting.

Finally, with regards to the Leman Russes and such being Tempestus Scions, I'm looking at the codex and FAQ's now:
Pg 84: "Units with the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS keyword treat this their <REGIMENT> keyword in all respects, but the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS keyword cannot be used to replace the <REGIMENT> keyword on any other datasheet."
Pg 132: "MILITARUM TEMPESTUS units can be inculded in an ASTRA MILITARUM detachment without preventing other units in that detachment from gaining a Regimental Doctrine. Note, however, that the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS units themselves do not benefit from any Regimental Doctrine unless every unit in that detachment is from the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS [in which case, they will gain the Storm Troopers doctrine]."
Pg 132: "The units listed can be included within any ASTRA MILITARUM detachment without preventing the other units in that detachment from gaining a Regimental Doctrine." The listed units are Tech Priest Enginseer, Servitors, Ministorium Priest, Crusaders, AERONAUTICA IMPERALIS, OFFICIO PREFECTUS, MILITARUM AUXILIA, and SCHOLASTICA PSYKANA.

I believe that Bacon Cat Bug's interpretation is, in this case, incorrect. You can field auxiliary troops without breaking your Regimental Doctrine.

There is a passage in the codex indicating that this is the order of precedence of the rules:
Pg82-83: In the example force, a squad of bullgryns is part of the Kappic Eagles detachment. It then claims that the separate elements [1 Spearhead [CADIA], 1 Patrol [MILITARUM TEMPESTUS] and 1 BAttalion [CADIA]] can be merged into a Brigade but "This restricts the operational autonomy of the Militarum Tempestus detachment". This implies that, including the presence of the Bullgryn, the Militarum Tempestas are receiving their Stormtroopers doctrine when it's just them and the bullgryn.


Also of note, Chimerae and Tauroxes cannot be Militarum Tempestus, but you can load Militarum Tempestus troops into them, so if you want to ride in Chimerae you can bring a separate Guard detachment with the Chimerae in it.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I believe that Bacon Cat Bug's interpretation is, in this case, incorrect. You can field auxiliary troops without breaking your Regimental Doctrine.

My "interpretation" is not incorrect, because it's what the rules say. I literally quoted the rule that shows why MT can't take Auxiliary units when other regiments can. Ok to be more precise, yes, they can take Auxiliary Units, but they lose their doctrine if they do so unlike other Regiments.

Fluff pages are not rules. If they were I'd love to play a game someday with my Ultramarines against you and use my plot armour to win. Anyway this has been hashed out before to no avail in another thread so I won't drag it out any more in this one. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/755709.page#9947889

 Bobthehero wrote:
I'll toot my own horn here

Spoiler:

The gal on the left is another Tempestor Prime, but I need to figure something to make her stand our more than the just the coat.

I too will also participate in some horn-tooting...



The Hostile Environment sets make very nice Kasrkin stand-ins.

These are great suggestions guys

Though I'm a little disappointed I can't slot in the odd unit I like, like bullgryns

I thought the guard codex would be a little more open on what can be taken

You can use the arms from any of the hellguns where the left hand sits on the gun, not the barrel. Cut the gun off and, from it, also a big enough chunk from the spot where the left hand sits on the gun. That part should fit on the plasma gun grip that is on the middle bottom side of the plasma gun.

https://imgur.com/a/ha5lvYf

If you want tanks, the Taurox Prime is somewhat tanky; and it won't remove the Doctrine from the MT guys, so that's a plus too.

The only awkward thing is its a transport for a unit that inherently gets deepstrike, so you'll very rarely actually want to use it as a transport.

 Kcalehc wrote:
If you want tanks, the Taurox Prime is somewhat tanky; and it won't remove the Doctrine from the MT guys, so that's a plus too.

The only awkward thing is its a transport for a unit that inherently gets deepstrike, so you'll very rarely actually want to use it as a transport.

It works quite well when you consider it as a way to 'roll back' the Scions after deep-striking and getting their target.

 fraser1191 wrote:
These are great suggestions guys

Though I'm a little disappointed I can't slot in the odd unit I like, like bullgryns

I thought the guard codex would be a little more open on what can be taken

You can, you just use another detachment.

My interpretation of the Auxilery units was you could take them in a "Cadian" detatchment, and the rest of the detachment would benefit from being "Cadian", except for the Scions. I dont have my codex right infront of me, so I may be mistaken

TBH the Scion <Regiment> ability is garbage, so dont worry about using it. Back before the first FAQ, Scions were great for making Soup detachments (Combining different allies into one detachment) because you didnt really have a <Regiment> ability anyway. Was very fluffy to bring in Inquisition.

In summery, bring your LRBT in the same detachment, and make it <Cadian/Catachan>. Dont worry about not having a <Regiment> bonus on the Scions, the only one they can use is terrible.

There is a greatcoat that comes in the package, works good to distinguish the Tempestus Prime. Use plasma guns from other sources (ie the Plasma gun pack for space marines) and use the arms from other special weapons in the sprue. I cut off the Grenade Launcher from the associated arms, and stuck a plasma gun there very easily.

And for the record, I always take 20 scions in my Guard lists.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Switching the left arm can help somewhat with plasma Scions, give your plasma gunner the medkit arm and running legs, and he'll look like he's rushing to patch someone.

Or he's just preparing for the inevitable burns he's bound to have when he overcharges that thing.