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question on the boomdakka snazzwagon.
It says each of its crew has a grotblasta and burnabomb. I dont see anything saying how many crew it has, how many is this? I am ASSUMING the "grot wit needs a lessun" upfront doesnt count as crew.

Zachectomy wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Guys, I just realised (slash was told) that if Meganobz "Loot it!" then they become effectively 2++.

Because you cannot modify below 1 thanks to the Designers Commentary, and the Dark Eldar FAQ confirmed the RaW that only unmodified 1's fail, not modified 1's (the wording is the same for both To Hit and To Save, "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply." therefore the same rules apply).

That means if you have Meganobz that are 1+ save, and are hit by an AP-5 weapon, you roll a D6-5, which due to the Designers Commentary can be modified to the following values: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 or 1, which means all rolls other than a natural 1 pass. The same applies for all other AP values (even AP0, since the natural 1 fails).

Remember, FAQs are Rules as "Intended", so if anyone argues with you they must be trying to abuse the rules! /s (Mod Disclaimer: This is a lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek joke, not an attack on anyone.)

Is misunderstanding rules and making nonsensical generalizations your "thing"? Because looking at your signature, that seems to be the case. Meganobz with "Loot it" hit by an ap-5 weapon go to a 6+ save. Or is this all just joking self-parody? Because, you know... Poe's Law.

Firstly, rude.

Secondly, https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/766233.page#10215934 Modifiers do not modify the statistic, the modify the roll. Please reference the linked thread for a step by step breakdown.

BCB, get your nonsense out of our ork threat. Feel free to troll YMDC with your RANI nosense, but not an ork TACTICS thread.

15 x Badmoon tankbustas (+/- 5 Bomb squgs) in a battlewagon (a little over 400 pts), deepstriked turn 2 with the Tellyporta stratagem

Shoot them twice with Showin' Off Stratagem

Math'd out, (including the 1-off Bomb squigs) that does 24.3 dmg to a knight profile

Or 32 Dmg T7 3+ vehicles (so down one, stratagem then the other.

Any mIleage in this? guarentees you can get the shots off, without being focus-fired down in turn 1/2

(Edit - haven't included DDD on bomb squigs)

Ok, I'm going to try my hand at a ranking for the clan kulturs; please give feedback on these rankings and if we reach some sort of consensus we can put this into the OP. I'll post one at a time and edit this post as I go.

Evil Suns: A-Tier

Adds +1" to movement, advance, and charge rolls. Advancing and firing assault weapons does not incure the -1 to hit penalty.

Evil Suns is definitely the meta pick for a wide variety of army types. The extra movement gives footslogging boyz and walkers a considerable threat range. The bonus to charge rolls allows reliable charges out of deepstrike, whether it be from the tellyporta stratagem or da jump. Vehicle and bike-heavy lists also have the potential to threaten a turn 1 charge if your opponent doesn't deploy considerably far back. The ability to keep shooting with assault weapons at full effect while racing up the field ensures that you don't have to sacrifice your shooting to do so.

The Evil Suns stratagem is a good one, allowing you an additional move action on a speed freeks unit so long as you don't charge. Enables some fun jump-shoot-jump shenanagins or long distance objective grabbing.

The Evil Suns Warlord trait allows units to charge even if they fell back earlier in the turn if they are within 6" of the warlord. This is a great trait that really steps on the toes of blood axes. More mobility is always good.

The relic for Evil Suns is the weakest aspect here. Mortal wounds to units within 1" of a vehicle the bearer is embarked on. This requires the bearer to not only wait about inside a transport without getting in the thick of it themselves, but also activates in the movement phase, meaning it is only affecting things you charged that didn't fall back. Pretty useless. There are better relics.

Death Skulls: B+ Tier

Allows one re-roll to hit, to wound, and damage roll per unit. All units gain a 6++ invulnerable save. All infantry have objective secured.

Death Skulls is another strong kultur. I've ranked it a B+ because I feel it caters more to MSU play while Evil Suns caters to getting stuck in as fast as possible, and I feel the latter is stronger for orks. That doesn't make them bad though. Far from it. The huge amount of re-rolls is really useful for min squads of boyz with rokkits and tankbusta bombs, as well as anything else with a few high-value shots (shokk jump dragsta as well as other buggies, SAG big mek, CC attacks for things like powerklaws that have accuracy issues and variable damage rolls, etc. The 6++ is nice for infantry to ensure they always get their T-shirts, but the addition of obsec for all infantry is huge, especially considering the MSU-style of death skulls lends itself to running things like nobs in trukks, who can really benefit from this rule.

The Death Skulls stratagem allows you to re-roll wound rolls against a vehicle target. This is a nice damage boost and will certainly see use.

The Death Skulls warlord trait allows you to target enemy characters within 18" and re-rolls 1's in cc with a vehicle. Fairly meh. Your warlord is unlikely to be carrying a weapon that is decent for sniping characters, and if you want to go vehicle hunting, there are better warlord traits, like Brutal but Kunnin'.

Their relic gives a unit the mekaniak ability, or if they already have it, they always heal 3 wounds instead of 1. This is nice, but by its nature, 8th edition involves focusing vehicles down in a single turn rather than damaging them just a little bit. If your opponent wants something dead, 3 extra wounds likely won't be enough. Might be useful in the late game when shooting has decreased if you have a lot of vehicles that your mek can keep up with though.

We should hold off on the ranking for one week or so, until people have actually played games with the codex.

Currently in the process of building a battle wagon, pretty modular but now having read the book the plan is roughly thus...

Bonebreaker, for the bonus attacks on the charge, contains a unit of nobz, various weapons including a few klaws.

this is in my Blood Axe army, idea is to pile forwards (and when I get the trike) advance then charge using the Ramming Speed ability, nobz stay inside.

following turn, Nobz dismount, use the Blood Axe ability to pull back, the nobz are now in an easy charge range and the wagon can ram again for the bonus again if desired (or just charge usually).

needs something else to go in with it, specifically to make sure there is space around the wagon occupied by Orks (stop the wagon being surrounded) - these support models move before the wagon unloads and backs off - a mob of boyz will be plenty (via Da Jump possibly, or if on the second turn more conventional tricks), could use bikes though to taste.

the wagon gets a mahoosive "kill me now" sign on it, but if its absorbing firepower its allowing something else to close up, keep the nobz not too expensive (i.e. not too many upgrades, their job is to unload at close range, a bit of shooting then charge, after that its charge then maybe fall back and charge again - a few combi-scorcha?).

its not too many points, the wagon gets only assault weapons so it can fire on its way in, but not too many since its pull back or shoot.

Don't think this is game winning but that wagon looks nasty up close D6+6 attacks, or more likely 2D6 when damaged hitting on a 2+ is going to make a mess

 Jidmah wrote:
We should hold off on the ranking for one week or so, until people have actually played games with the codex.

Fair enough, sorry didn't see this because I was updating the post again.

As a die hard Evil Sunz player I'm trying to figure out if I like that warlord trait or not. Instinctively I thought it was great but I'm actually starting to struggle to find scenarios I'd use it in all that often. Well okay, maybe not struggle, but can you guys help me fill in some possible uses for it? These ones are pretty decent IMO but surely there are some that I'm missing.

The deffkilla has that sweet falling back stratagem that you can pop (and maybe combine with ramming speed) but you still lose out on your shooting. Unless you're subject to overwatch it's better than nothing obviously still.

Otherwise it can be used to tie up units in CC to at least somewhat protect them from enemy shooting (assuming you actually tie up dangerous shooting units) and then have the flexibility to go wherever you want. Works best with units that have poor shooting.

The Bonebreaka seems ideal for the task, get extra attacks on the charge, can tank overwatch from most things and optional armaments.

The trait with stack pretty well with deffkoptas because of FLY I guess

So ork boyz can equip a 1 in 10 tankbustabomb

So can extra stikkbombs stratagem let them throw one per boy?

 Rismonite wrote:
So ork boyz can equip a 1 in 10 tankbustabomb

So can extra stikkbombs stratagem let them throw one per boy?

Correct, but you're only going to be able to throw 3 plus 7 Stikkbombs. It's more useful to pewpew on close range chargers, especially because you're hitting on 6's anyway and you have Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
So ork boyz can equip a 1 in 10 tankbustabomb

So can extra stikkbombs stratagem let them throw one per boy?

Correct, but you're only going to be able to throw 3 plus 7 Stikkbombs. It's more useful to pewpew on close range chargers, especially because you're hitting on 6's anyway and you have Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!

I meant tankbusta bombs

Killa Kanz are missing KMB

Hmm. The Red armor relic might have a purpose... In that an enemy charging a vehicle to lock it might not be a safe bet. Still probably not worth it.

OK ladz, lissen up.

GET STUCK IN allows you to fight a second time, and can be activated when you choose a unit to fight.

"When you choose" occurs after all charges...but if it is your turn, you get to choose first.

So...

40 skarboyz attack because they charged.

Then other charges go.

Then you chooose to activate the scarboyz again...BEFORE THE KNIGHT GETS TO SWING BACK.

So all "80" boyz get their 4 attacks before the knight swings back. if under warpath, and Gazzy is near, they get 6 each...so

480 STRENGTH 5 ATTACKS with exploding 6s...yielding 178 WOUNDS.

Before the knight gets to swing back.

Or should I say..."What Knight??"

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Hmm. The Red armor relic might have a purpose... In that an enemy charging a vehicle to lock it might not be a safe bet. Still probably not worth it.

Rezmekkas redder armour is probably a decent fit on a normal mek in a bonebreaka. That's sort of what An Actual Englishman and myself spawned up as an idea. The enemy can leave the combat but would be subject to a stronger attack via the charge. Plus an extra 1" of move might help with getting a T1 charge every now and then. I haven't tried it out but that might be a pretty decent use of it.

The mek himself is cheap enough to not be too much of a tax if the vehicle breaks and that pistol is actually pretty scary now. Also, a relatively cheap way (29 points) to fill an elite slot if you need to do that

 JimOnMars wrote:
OK ladz, lissen up.

GET STUCK IN allows you to fight a second time, and can be activated when you choose a unit to fight.

"When you choose" occurs after all charges...but if it is your turn, you get to choose first.

So...

40 skarboyz attack because they charged.

Then other charges go.

Then you chooose to activate the scarboyz again...BEFORE THE KNIGHT GETS TO SWING BACK.

So all "80" boyz get their 4 attacks before the knight swings back. if under warpath, and Gazzy is near, they get 6 each...so

480 STRENGTH 5 ATTACKS with exploding 6s...yielding 178 WOUNDS.

Before the knight gets to swing back.

Or should I say..."What Knight??"

I mean you're spending 6CP to do that, so it's not that impressive.

leopard wrote:
Currently in the process of building a battle wagon, pretty modular but now having read the book the plan is roughly thus...

Bonebreaker, for the bonus attacks on the charge, contains a unit of nobz, various weapons including a few klaws.

this is in my Blood Axe army, idea is to pile forwards (and when I get the trike) advance then charge using the Ramming Speed ability, nobz stay inside.

following turn, Nobz dismount, use the Blood Axe ability to pull back, the nobz are now in an easy charge range and the wagon can ram again for the bonus again if desired (or just charge usually).

needs something else to go in with it, specifically to make sure there is space around the wagon occupied by Orks (stop the wagon being surrounded) - these support models move before the wagon unloads and backs off - a mob of boyz will be plenty (via Da Jump possibly, or if on the second turn more conventional tricks), could use bikes though to taste.

the wagon gets a mahoosive "kill me now" sign on it, but if its absorbing firepower its allowing something else to close up, keep the nobz not too expensive (i.e. not too many upgrades, their job is to unload at close range, a bit of shooting then charge, after that its charge then maybe fall back and charge again - a few combi-scorcha?).

its not too many points, the wagon gets only assault weapons so it can fire on its way in, but not too many since its pull back or shoot.

Don't think this is game winning but that wagon looks nasty up close D6+6 attacks, or more likely 2D6 when damaged hitting on a 2+ is going to make a mess

If you are building the official kit, it's pretty simple: Don't glue anything anywhere. Almost all parts of the battlewagon, including the 'ard case and deff rolla will hold in place without a single drop of glue. Glue a stack of washers or pennies under the grabbin' klaw, the lobba and the pintle mouunted shoota and you will be able to switch all gear except for the turret weapon at will. For the turret-mounted just use what you think looks best, magnetizing those is a pain in the rear and the difference between the three guns is minimal - someone who is not playing orks will not be able to tell a killkannon from a zzap gun.

As for the tactics - I'm planning on doing just that. Two bone breakers with 10 nobz and maybe a weird boy or banner each, another battlewagon with tank bustas, a unit of deff dreads on the tellyporta platform, 3x 20 boyz in hiding, dakkajets and burna bommers to clear chaff and a morkanaut to protect them all. A bull's eye on the wagon doesn't matter if the entire army consists of bull's eyes.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

480 STRENGTH 5 ATTACKS with exploding 6s...yielding 178 WOUNDS.

Before the knight gets to swing back.

Or should I say..."What Knight??"

I mean you're spending 6CP to do that, so it's not that impressive.

Obviously nothing the game needs 178 wounds.

But take 30 naked skarboyz...6 die to overwatch.

That leaves 24, with 4 attacks each, is 192 attacks. Against a knight it's still 42 wounds. All with just 1 naked unit of scarboyz.

ETA: 50 wounds. Forgot the exploding 6s!

 JimOnMars wrote:
OK ladz, lissen up.

GET STUCK IN allows you to fight a second time, and can be activated when you choose a unit to fight.

"When you choose" occurs after all charges...but if it is your turn, you get to choose first.

So...

40 skarboyz attack because they charged.

Then other charges go.

Then you chooose to activate the scarboyz again...BEFORE THE KNIGHT GETS TO SWING BACK.

So all "80" boyz get their 4 attacks before the knight swings back. if under warpath, and Gazzy is near, they get 6 each...so

480 STRENGTH 5 ATTACKS with exploding 6s...yielding 178 WOUNDS.

Before the knight gets to swing back.

Or should I say..."What Knight??"

They could also be hitting on 2s with a banner

I think us getting to activate it before the knight swings back is for YMDC

 Rismonite wrote:
They could also be hitting on 2s with a banner

I think us getting to activate it before the knight swings back is for YMDC

"Use this strategem in the fight phase when it is your turn to select a unit to fight, or at the end of the Fight phase."

I can't imagine someone saying "well, it's your turn to select a unit to fight, but you can't use that rule that says to use it when it's your turn to select a unit to fight"

Actually, I can see people saying that...but wtf really? Do I get to select or don't I?

Hmm, yeah thats a good point. If your Skars are the ONLY unit in combat, do you get a chance to use the stratagem since you no longer have any eligible units to pick?

I'm going to say no on that, because "If one player runs out of eligible units, the other player completes all of their remaining fights, one unit after another."

So, to make sure your Skars get to fight uninterrupted, you need at least one other unit in melee.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It's not for YMDC, it's clear as day.

Lets say the Skars are the only unit that charged, and you have 3 other combats going of 1 unit per side.

Step 1) Resolve Chargers. You charged with Skars, you resolve their attacks. Opponent has no chargers, obviously. Your opponent resolves his fights first ability units.

Step 2) It's your turn, you get to pick a unit to attack. Since by definition if there are ANY combats going you'll get to pick first, so you can use the stratagem to pick the Skars

The only wrench is if he has some unit with a fights first ability like Slaaneshi Daemons or something. Other than that if you've charged something it's your turn, so you get to resolve your chargers first, then you get to pick the first non-charging unit, even if you don't have any other combats.

Yep. The only defense is if someone interrupts, or if they have "always go first" rules.

I could see the knight interrupting.

Sorry about that, I realised I made a mistake and corrected myself. The line "If one player runs out of eligible units, the other player completes all of their remaining fights, one unit after another." is pretty cut and dry. If the Skars are the only unit you have within 1" and they charged, you don't have any eligible units after chargers are done, and the Knight gets to attack first. If you have at least one other unit within 1", you get to back to back your Skars.

Quirky, but thems the rules.

thinking...needs faq.

Quick list, I think it makes the best use of the deep strike turn 2 stomping... I'll teleport the BW with gaz and friends, then either the lv 2 odd boy (jump/fist of gork) goes in as well or stays back to jump the boyz up turn 2, grots shield boyz if no turn1. Tank bustas looking to drive up throw 10 bombs, alongside warbikes looking for fooder lines to chew on and hopefully charge. Kommandos for more boyz on turn 2 jump, even if they don't make the improved charge I can use 3D6 on BW to make sure Deff-rolla does some work. Might need more wounds in the list not to lose everything to a good shooting list, but with -1 to hit on bikes and everything behind grots or T5 and up with 5++, nobs loot BW for 3+, I bet I could get the truck to wreck near the kommandos get them a +3 in cover. Or just bring 30 mob back when under 15 boyz... So Many choices.

- Ork List 2000 pts - 11 CP

- Spear-head Detachment - (Goffs) + 1 CP
- HQ's -
- Gazzkull-Thraka - 235 pts
- Wired Boy - 62 pts
- Heavy Support -
- Battlewagon (Bonecrusher) - 140 pts - Deff rolla - 19 pts
- Smasha Gun x 1 - 31 pts
- Smasha Gun x 1 - 31 pts
- Elite -
- Nobs x 9 - 126 pts - 9 BC's 45 pts
689 points
- Battalion Detachment - (Evil- sunz) + 5 CP
- HQ's -
- Wartrike - 120 pts
- Big Mek on a warbike - 81 pts - KFF - 20 pts
- Big Mek - 55 pts - KFF 20 pts
- Troops -
- Grots x 10 - 30 pts
- Grots x 26 - 78 pts
- Boyz x 30 - 210 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Elites -
- Kommandos x 15 - 120 pts - Nob PK - 13 pts
- Tank Bustas x 10 - 170 pts - bomb squigs x 2 - 20 pts
- Fast Attack -
- Warbikers x 9 - 207 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Heavy Support -
- Smasha Gun x 3 - 93 pts
- Transports -
- Truck - 59 pts - big shoota - 5 pts
1,311 points

KillerOfMany wrote:
Quick list, I think it makes the best use of the deep strike turn 2 stomping... I'll teleport the BW with gaz and friends, then either the lv 2 odd boy (jump/fist of gork) goes in as well or stays back to jump the boyz up turn 2, grots shield boyz if no turn1. Tank bustas looking to drive up throw 10 bombs, alongside warbikes looking for fooder lines to chew on and hopefully charge. Kommandos for more boyz on turn 2 jump, even if they don't make the improved charge I can use 3D6 on BW to make sure Deff-rolla does some work. Might need more wounds in the list not to lose everything to a good shooting list, but with -1 to hit on bikes and everything behind grots or T5 and up with 5++, nobs loot BW for 3+, I bet I could get the truck to wreck near the kommandos get them a +3 in cover. Or just bring 30 mob back when under 15 boyz... So Many choices.

- Ork List 2000 pts - 11 CP

- Spear-head Detachment - (Goffs) + 1 CP
- HQ's -
- Gazzkull-Thraka - 235 pts
- Wired Boy - 62 pts
- Heavy Support -
- Battlewagon (Bonecrusher) - 140 pts - Deff rolla - 19 pts
- Smasha Gun x 1 - 31 pts
- Smasha Gun x 1 - 31 pts
- Elite -
- Nobs x 9 - 126 pts - 9 BC's 45 pts
689 points
- Battalion Detachment - (Evil- sunz) + 5 CP
- HQ's -
- Wartrike - 120 pts
- Big Mek on a warbike - 81 pts - KFF - 20 pts
- Big Mek - 55 pts - KFF 20 pts
- Troops -
- Grots x 10 - 30 pts
- Grots x 26 - 78 pts
- Boyz x 30 - 210 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Elites -
- Kommandos x 15 - 120 pts - Nob PK - 13 pts
- Tank Bustas x 10 - 170 pts - bomb squigs x 2 - 20 pts
- Fast Attack -
- Warbikers x 9 - 207 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Heavy Support -
- Smasha Gun x 3 - 93 pts
- Transports -
- Truck - 59 pts - big shoota - 5 pts
1,311 points

If you can squeeze in 3 grot units you can get 4 more command points. I think CP are going to be critical to orks doing knockout punches to things.

I think to be honest one of the few things that will be more common than seeing a Battalion of Grots with two cheap HQs will be seeing two such Battalions

2 battalions = 24 CP for (120 grots and 3 wired boys and a.... war boss?) = 562 points

.... I need to buy more grots...


edit.. nvm SAG big meq, ouch they good now? might just take the 3 odd boys and 3 war bosses if not, the kitbash for 3 sounds fun though... hmm

36 CP + 5 might be too much CP... if that is a thing...

leopard wrote:
I think to be honest one of the few things that will be more common than seeing a Battalion of Grots with two cheap HQs will be seeing two such Battalions

Not to be a debbie downer but because of the removal of the normal Big Mek, assuming whatever you're doing doesn't allow the Index, you've got to pay 200 points for the first battalion and then 207 for the 2nd. If they allow the old Big Mek you pay 200 for the 2nd battalion.

Guard still outdo you by a significant margin with their 180 and 181 battalions (although if Infantry go up to 5PPM then they'll be more expensive for the 2nd battalion). Dedicating 20% of your points on Gretchin that die to a wet fart is going to hurt your ability to take killy things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KillerOfMany wrote:
24 CP for (120 grots and 3 wired boys and a.... war boss?) = 559 points

.... I need to buy more grots...

You need 6 HQs for 3 Batalions. The cheapest one you can take is 2 Big Meks with SAG and 3x10 Gretchin which is 200 points.

I don't think Lucky Stikk is that good on a Wartrike... it already rerolls wound rolls in melee innately and if you get the Brutal but Kunnin' trait you reroll hits as well (seems a pretty strong trait as well because it also gives +1D on your charge, which is GAKHUEG on a Dd3 weapon. Makes sure that every unsaved wound takes a sizeable chunk out of target vehicle/ monster/ TEQ/ Primaris. Then cast Fists of Gork for 7 S9 attacks that hit on 2+ rerollable and wound practically everything on a 3+ or better).