CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.

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**Jidmah**

Fixed the quote

**tneva82**

PiñaColada wrote:

Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?

Correct. So assuming 122 for MA warboss he has 878 to spend so 9 dredds=97.5 pts per dread. He could get there with 3xKMB+dread klaw or 4xdread saw etc combo. Kind of close...

**Weazel**

Just to be clear, passengers on Evil Sunz transports can fire assault weapons without -1 hit if the transport advances? Or is there a blanket restriction on firing out of advancing vehicles altogether that I'm not aware of?

**geargutz**

PiñaColada wrote:

Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?

the warboss/9defdredds come to 987 pts with what i have them kitted with. the meganobz deploy normally (them and the rest of my army come to 966 pts, there is some room for manz wargear and other stuff) and will get jumped in the turn 2 psychic phase after the horde comes from reserves.

like i said, this is the closest i can get to null deployment.

**tneva82**

geargutz wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?

the warboss/9defdredds come to 987 pts with what i have them kitted with. the meganobz deploy normally (them and the rest of my army come to 966 pts, there is some room for manz wargear and other stuff) and will get jumped in the turn 2 psychic phase after the horde comes from reserves.

like i said, this is the closest i can get to null deployment.

a) out of curiosity what's the equipment? 3xKMB+dread klaw on leads to 995 pts. Kind of weird equipment though
b) here comes interesting rule question. You have 987 pts which is <50% of 2000 pts. HOWEVER if your rest of army comes to 966 pts that means you have more deep strikers than non-deep strikers in points. Isn't that violation of reserves? Is the more than half the max army size of half the points you actually have? (also you really couldnt' figure anything to use 47 pts?)

**PiñaColada**

geargutz wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?

the warboss/9defdredds come to 987 pts with what i have them kitted with. the meganobz deploy normally (them and the rest of my army come to 966 pts, there is some room for manz wargear and other stuff) and will get jumped in the turn 2 psychic phase after the horde comes from reserves.

like i said, this is the closest i can get to null deployment.

My mistake. By all means then, tellyport away

**Latro_**

Here is me 2k of the same ork army since more or less 4th ed

... not changed much. Managed to get a meaty brigade.

Spoiler:

Not used mekguns before they looks so good gonna get some.

Hit on idea of mek on bike with KFF, 2 trucks with bustas near by and also the koptas. Bit of a fast anti tank wave, mek gives em all a 5++ and he can fix em up on the way.
20 rokkit shots + 4 from the koptas. ES so can advance the truks and still fire. Get close then jump both units out (assuming alive) mob them up then fire 20 d3 tank busta bombs.

Seems fairly balanced right?

**Jidmah**

Weazel wrote:
Just to be clear, passengers on Evil Sunz transports can fire assault weapons without -1 hit if the transport advances? Or is there a blanket restriction on firing out of advancing vehicles altogether that I'm not aware of?

Depends. Evil Suns passengers will be able to fire without -1 to hit because Evil Suns ignore the penalty for advancing.

Flash Gits in an Evil Suns transport will not be able to shoot because they count as advancing when the transport advances and thus cannot shoot their heavy weapons.

So the klan of the passengers matters, not the klan of the transport.

**geargutz**

tneva82 wrote:

a) out of curiosity what's the equipment? 3xKMB+dread klaw on leads to 995 pts. Kind of weird equipment though
b) here comes interesting rule question. You have 987 pts which is <50% of 2000 pts. HOWEVER if your rest of army comes to 966 pts that means you have more deep strikers than non-deep strikers in points. Isn't that violation of reserves? Is the more than half the max army size of half the points you actually have? (also you really couldnt' figure anything to use 47 pts?)

warboss in megarmor with pk comes to 122pts
x4 deffdredds with 2saws and 2 bigshootas= 340
x5 deffdredds with 2saws and 2claws= 525

and as far as the 47 pts, its all additional wargear ill choose later when i get my collection of meganobz in hand. i forgot what i had them all loaded with and so i went with basic manz at 35 each. i guess my list is incomplete, but i was just giving an example of the army i want to try out. sorry if i didn't make that clear enough.

**Weazel**

Jidmah wrote:
Weazel wrote:
Just to be clear, passengers on Evil Sunz transports can fire assault weapons without -1 hit if the transport advances? Or is there a blanket restriction on firing out of advancing vehicles altogether that I'm not aware of?

Depends. Evil Suns passengers will be able to fire without -1 to hit because Evil Suns ignore the penalty for advancing.

Flash Gits in an Evil Suns transport will not be able to shoot because they count as advancing when the transport advances and thus cannot shoot their heavy weapons.

So the klan of the passengers matters, not the klan of the transport.

Well for the sake of the argument let's say Evil Sunz Tankbustas in an Evil Sunz trukk. They can fire their rokkits without penalty even if the Trukk advances?

**Jidmah**

Yes. The trukks' open topped rule makes the tankbustas count as advancing, but the tankbustas don't care.

No throwing grenades though.

**Latro_**

also not tactics but quickly on the mek gun front does anyone know the stock dimensions, gonna 'mek' me own

**Emicrania**

Sorry for the dumb question but I Always have problems understanding rules in the start, does the Mel Gunz have still 5 grots crew? Also do they benefit from Klan Rules?
Because what I see is "if ALL the unit is composed by grots"
The Mel Gunz unit is

Categories: Artillery, Heavy Support, Vehicle, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Ork, Mek Gunz, Gretchin

I am confused

**CthuluIsSpy**

What mek gun is the closest anologue to Zzap gunz? I don't have the index and I don't want to use it, so big gunz are out.
Also, do Mek Gun krew actually do anything, or are they just wound counters? I don't have the codex yet, just brainstorming.

**tneva82**

Emicrania wrote:
Sorry for the dumb question but I Always have problems understanding rules in the start, does the Mel Gunz have still 5 grots crew? Also do they benefit from Klan Rules?
Because what I see is "if ALL the unit is composed by grots"
The Mel Gunz unit is

Categories: Artillery, Heavy Support, Vehicle, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Ork, Mek Gunz, Gretchin

I am confused

Still have but they don't really do anything but take space. And no clan trait. They have ONE line of keywords so all models in the unit have them and one of the keywords is GRETCHIN and if unit is composed by GRETCHINS(note it's big bolded=keyword rather than say unit name) no clan trait. Ergo no clan trait. Bad in that no HUGE benefit boost from deathskull, good at least in that it doesnt' effectively make mek guns "death skull only".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What mek gun is the closest anologue to Zzap gunz? I don't have the index and I don't want to use it, so big gunz are out.
Also, do Mek Gun krew actually do anything, or are they just wound counters? I don't have the codex yet, just brainstorming.

Kustom mega kannon would probably be. Energy, can hurt itself.

And actually not even wound counters. They just are there. Eat space for harder to hide LOS/trickier to cram lots of space. If you don't have 5 and keep them regardless of wounds suffered you can expose yourself to accuse of abusing model removal for your benefit when rules don't give you right to remove models(and thus make footprint smaller)

**CthuluIsSpy**

K, I'll just proxy my scratch built zzap kannons as KMK then.
No idea what to do with krew though. I have better uses for 12 gretchin (10 from the box set, 2 I built from riggers) than sitting near cannons.
Maybe I can say the mek gunz krew are wearing purple, so they are being sneaky.

**Weazel**

tneva82 wrote:

And actually not even wound counters. They just are there. Eat space for harder to hide LOS/trickier to cram lots of space. If you don't have 5 and keep them regardless of wounds suffered you can expose yourself to accuse of abusing model removal for your benefit when rules don't give you right to remove models(and thus make footprint smaller)

A situation where you can see a part of a Grot within 1" of the Gun and not even a pixel from the Gun (which is huge in comparison) are few and far between. But RAW you probably can't use them as counters. Best to OK with your opponent to be on the safe side. That said I'm going to use the Grots as wound counters whenever possible.

**Latro_**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
K, I'll just proxy my scratch built zzap kannons as KMK then.
No idea what to do with krew though. I have better uses for 12 gretchin (10 from the box set, 2 I built from riggers) than sitting near cannons.
Maybe I can say the mek gunz krew are wearing purple, so they are being sneaky.

just use them as wound counters for the mek guns, put 6 round take one of everytime it takes a wound

**tneva82**

Weazel wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

And actually not even wound counters. They just are there. Eat space for harder to hide LOS/trickier to cram lots of space. If you don't have 5 and keep them regardless of wounds suffered you can expose yourself to accuse of abusing model removal for your benefit when rules don't give you right to remove models(and thus make footprint smaller)

A situation where you can see a part of a Grot within 1" of the Gun and not even a pixel from the Gun (which is huge in comparison) are few and far between. But RAW you probably can't use them as counters. Best to OK with your opponent to be on the safe side. That said I'm going to use the Grots as wound counters whenever possible.

Yes they are not going to be common but TFG's can make mountain out of anthil. Just something to be mindful.

I won't use them as wound counters as I have 6 per box to spread between 4. Not nearly enough!

**r_squared**

Jidmah wrote:
Yes. The trukks' open topped rule makes the tankbustas count as advancing, but the tankbustas don't care.

No throwing grenades though.

So, truck full of tankbustas can advance into 24" range, fire volley at full BS and then after shooting advance 13" +d6+1" back out of LoS for 1cp?

How very interesting.

**Jidmah**

Advancing just modifies your movement distance and doesn't move the vehicle, but otherwise I guess that's kind of the idea behind the stratagem.

**CthuluIsSpy**

tneva82 wrote:
Weazel wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

And actually not even wound counters. They just are there. Eat space for harder to hide LOS/trickier to cram lots of space. If you don't have 5 and keep them regardless of wounds suffered you can expose yourself to accuse of abusing model removal for your benefit when rules don't give you right to remove models(and thus make footprint smaller)

A situation where you can see a part of a Grot within 1" of the Gun and not even a pixel from the Gun (which is huge in comparison) are few and far between. But RAW you probably can't use them as counters. Best to OK with your opponent to be on the safe side. That said I'm going to use the Grots as wound counters whenever possible.

Yes they are not going to be common but TFG's can make mountain out of anthil. Just something to be mindful.

I won't use them as wound counters as I have 6 per box to spread between 4. Not nearly enough!

You could do what I did for my scratch built big gunz and just use gretchin from runtherd + grotz set.
It does look kind of odd as they are all using guns rather than spanners, but it'll get the job done.

**PiñaColada**

r_squared wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Yes. The trukks' open topped rule makes the tankbustas count as advancing, but the tankbustas don't care.

No throwing grenades though.

So, truck full of tankbustas can advance into 24" range, fire volley at full BS and then after shooting advance 13" +d6+1" back out of LoS for 1cp?

How very interesting.

Nope, it's evil sunz speed freeks units only. So unless the Chinork got that keyword you can only use it with the buggies, deffkoptas or warbikers. That is unfortunate because jump-shoot-jumping a trukk full of tankbustas out of LoS would've been a real nice tool to have in the arsenal

**tneva82**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You could do what I did for my scratch built big gunz and just use gretchin from runtherd + grotz set.
It does look kind of odd as they are all using guns rather than spanners, but it'll get the job done.

I could but kind of defeats the point of trying to kitbash cheaply. You would need 2 boxes so with my style 91e(well 10% off from FLGS). Okay still 23e per gun rather than 36e but you still pay basically 7e per gun.

**An Actual Englishman**

r_squared wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Yes. The trukks' open topped rule makes the tankbustas count as advancing, but the tankbustas don't care.

No throwing grenades though.

So, truck full of tankbustas can advance into 24" range, fire volley at full BS and then after shooting advance 13" +d6+1" back out of LoS for 1cp?

How very interesting.

No, they can't dude. Trukks and all our transports lack the requisite SPEED FREEKS keyword to enable them to move-shoot-move.

The only dudes that are doing that are the new Buggies (including the Bosstrike), Warbikers (Nob and standard) and Deffkoptas.

**Latro_**

good spot on the koptas! thats pretty sweet

nip 5 of them 22" forward fire 10 rokkits then zip back 21" again out of range or out of los!

edit: or is it 23" with the +1 to adv

**An Actual Englishman**

Latro_ wrote:
good spot on the koptas! thats pretty sweet

nip 5 of them 21" forward fire 10 rokkits then zip back 21" again out of range or out of los!

edit: or is it 22" with the +1 to adv

It's actually 23" lol.

16" move if Evil Sunz + 6+1" advance = 23"..... they are mad fast.

**Latro_**

ah yea edited while you were typing! they are actually pretty good some tactics to be had there.

**Coh Magnussen**

I assume y'all are talking about the Drive-by-Krumpin' strategem? I don't have my BRB handy, but the core rules on advance specify "Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that Movement phase." (emphasis mine).

Are we assuming that since we are making "a move as if it were in the Movement phase" that it can also choose to advance? I hope that's the case, but that looks like a bit of a stretch to me (unless I'm missing something?).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
A question on nob weapons -- do we have to choose either the "pick 2" or the "pick 1", or can we do both on the same model? (time to strap an extra choppa on the back of my boss nob with big choppa and kombi-skorcha!)

**An Actual Englishman**

Coh Magnussen wrote:
I assume y'all are talking about the Drive-by-Krumpin' strategem? I don't have my BRB handy, but the core rules on advance specify "Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that Movement phase." (emphasis mine).

Are we assuming that since we are making "a move as if it were in the Movement phase" that it can also choose to advance? I hope that's the case, but that looks like a bit of a stretch to me (unless I'm missing something?).

Yea we're talking about this strat and you're right in that it looks dubious with the BRB only. It was FAQ'd for a Tyranid power I believe that explained that the advancing modification on your movement is used for movement outside of the movement phase.

So let's say you're doing it on warbikes, because they advance normally. You roll D6 to advance. Add 1 because Evil Sunz. So let's say you end up with a +5" to your movement stat as you rolled a 4. That then modifies your movement for the movement phase to be 14" (base movement) +2" (Evil Sunz Speed Freeks) +5" (advance result). So your movement is now 21" This same movement characteristic stays even if you move again outside of the movement phase. You don't even roll to advance again as you only advance once per round.