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Orks everywhere... Think I need more flamers

 office_waaagh wrote:

The skarboyz stratagem gives the Goff clan enormous flexibility in what the Boyz can deal with. Being able to throw S5 onto 90 boyz for a measly 3 CP if facing Knights, Death Guard, Custodes, or other high toughness enemies expands the range of things the Boyz can handle. Add in exploding 6's in melee, mob up, grot shield, the 'ard boyz stratagem depending what you're up against, and the ability to bring a mob back on when it's nearly wiped out and you have a combination of lethality and staying power that I think has a lot to recommend it. Not to mention the option to take Ghaz. Admittedly the Evil Sunz kultur is stronger in a vacuum, but the boost from 57% to 72% for making a charge out of deep strike is probably not going to be decisive most of the time.

42% chance of failing and being deleted accomplishing nothing. It's very unreliable to try to deep strike with goffs and remember you will be losing ~60 models a turn against sub optimal gunline so that 90 boyz is mostly dead after enemy gets to shoot.

If you teleport all 3 you get 1-2 squad. Yey. Hopefully screens are cleared so you can actually get to knight. 30 skarboyz does 9 wounds to knight. IF you get 2 units and all into combat(unlikely) you cause 18 wounds. Then those 2 units will get deleted and gap between next knight and the 3rd unit 9" behind can easily be big enough it won't attack next turn either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Orks everywhere... Think I need more flamers

Flamers bad now that orks can do reliable 9" charge out of deep strike. No overwatch. And they won't be walking through but are coming through deep strike. If you are imperium invest more of basic infantry squads(screen) and punishers. Nothing annoys ork more than 40 S5 shots rerolling 1's to hit. Especially one that costs 2/3 of your boyz squad!

So what's a good number of Evil Sunz Stormboyz to use ? 30 ? 60 ? 90 ? (120 @ 3K ?) Zero ?

T2 deepstrike + charge or keeping them with the boys and using the 30" threat range ?

I'm trying to make a case to myself for Flash Gitz because I love the models and I think there's a lot of potential there, it's just...not being able to make them bad moonz or death skullz really hurts their damage output relative to lootas or bustas that can double-shoot or re-roll wounds. The 4+ save and 2 wounds combined isn't enough to make up for the fact that they won't be able to use Grot Shields unless they're in a Freebooterz detachment.

Early december I'll be taking a plunge and try COMPETIVE tournament. Usually I restrict myself to the more casual as I find them more enjoyable but due to codex being week too late for 6k apoc game(which I then missed due to stomach issues) and tournament(lists needed to be returned friday, tournament on sunday and on saturday I was 240km trip away from nearest store with ork codex...) and this month casual tournament not simply having enough hobby budget I'm itching to play anything! So let's see how much I can cheese up. Also good motivator to paint stuff as I need to paint new stuff for this list. 2000 pts, no index stuff, FW allowed. Only WARLORDS faction strategems are available which helps orks. No faction specific tactical objective cards. Mix of maelstrom and eternal war scenarios. Winner will get place to invitational tournament.

Battallion: Evil suns

Trike HQ
warboss w/big choppa
3x10 gretchin
3xdeff dread(skorcha, 2xklaw, saw each) Yea yea skorcha sucks. I have to see if I can find some spare arms of anything and exchange the preglued skorcha that they were armed when I bought the models.

Battalion: Bad moons

2xweirdboy
3x10 gretchin
10xtank bustas
7xlootas
6xmek guns(4xtraktor gun, 2xkmk)
6xmek guns(4xsmasha gun, 2xkmk)
chinork(skorcha)

Battalion: Deathskulls
big mek w/shokk attack gun(deathskull warlord trait)
weirdboy
3x10 gretchin

So basically ork gunline. 12 mek guns, lootas(with show off if needed) and tank bustas should give me decent shooting. 9 gretchin squads ensure screens and objective grabbing. Dreads will be in tellyporta ready to come smashing. Tank bustas coming in with chinork either hiding behind LOS blocking or deep striking depending on terrain.

Alternative idea is replace one weirdboy into big mek in mega armour w/kff for the mek gun battery protection. However this requires point drops so chinork off and tank bustas into 12 strong mob and sent into range by da jump. That or walk behind grot screen.

One issue is there's only 30 gretchin to protect the stuff I want to protect with grot screen :-/ Moving either lootas or tank bustas to deathskulls would help on that regards but those units really want to be bad moons...

edit: That's 20 drops. Rather lot. Odds of getting that +1 is pretty slim I think so maybe better to split the mek guns to 5x2 and 2x1 drops. Would increase drops to 25 but I could at least get key deployments after enemy has mostly deployed plus more flexibility in placement. With 9 grot units, deff dreads to deep strike and 7 mek gun drops lootas and tank bustas should be able to go where they have best possibilities to do stuff.

 office_waaagh wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Brigade is definitely a possibility as well.

It'll likely come down to:

1 Brigade
1 Battalion+2 1cp divisions
2 Batalion+?

A Patrol can substitute for a third division as well, if you're looking for 1-2 units in particular.

The biggest problem will be Klan+Kultur; EvilSunz is the best for just about everything, but if you want any sort of shooting element - you'll want to take BadMoonz (Or Deathskullz, if you're going Tankbustas).

I'm curious to see which ends up winning out, mass MekGunz, or Tankbustas; it's possible a mix will form as well.

For this reason you are probably right and double battalion might be better so you are not locked in to a single clan.

Hard to say for mek guns and bustas. Guns will tend to be less of a points investment I feel and can act as psuedo silverbuillets against certain units. The amount of damage that bustas can do with the investment of points and CP is pretty amazing tho.

Just to throw this out there, I actually think a Goff brigade backed up by a Bad Moonz battalion or detachment might be really effective...I know, I know, Evil Sunz, but hear me out.

The skarboyz stratagem gives the Goff clan enormous flexibility in what the Boyz can deal with. Being able to throw S5 onto 90 boyz for a measly 3 CP if facing Knights, Death Guard, Custodes, or other high toughness enemies expands the range of things the Boyz can handle. Add in exploding 6's in melee, mob up, grot shield, the 'ard boyz stratagem depending what you're up against, and the ability to bring a mob back on when it's nearly wiped out and you have a combination of lethality and staying power that I think has a lot to recommend it. Not to mention the option to take Ghaz. Admittedly the Evil Sunz kultur is stronger in a vacuum, but the boost from 57% to 72% for making a charge out of deep strike is probably not going to be decisive most of the time.

Throw mek gunz in for heavy support, probably stormboyz for fast attack and free deep strike (saving precious CP's for other stuff), and maybe small units of meganobz or nobz for elites (or kommandos to keep it cheap), you could put together a brigade for ~1400 points, leaving you 600 points for Bad Moonz lootas and grots in a battalion with a couple of weirdboyz or big meks for HQ's to wreck things at range. Or bring in Tankbustas that you can deep strike and double shoot to basically remove one thing you hate from the battlefield on the turn they arrive. Drop battalion for smaller detachment to cut back on HQ choices to save points.

To my mind, the greatest strength here is the ability to adapt to your opponent so easily with stratagems that you can pick after you know what you're up against. You can tellyport different units depending on what you're facing, for example, and being able to add skarboyz to the mix of things you can do to adapt to your opponent might make the Goffs a better choice than their kultur makes them first appear.

I can dig this. 1260 for S5 160 boys take 2 wierdboy boys and 2 smashbosses. Last few points need to be silver bullets against everything else. Still seems flawed but I’m sure the concept is pretty strong with some optimization. You are just playing index orks but it’s much stronger.

Qadripple kmb deff dreads could be fun for freebotas/bad moonz/deffskullz.

I will try to run mechanized freebootaz using tabletop simulator just to get a feel of them. Don't have this many vehicles irl unfortunately and will likely not spend so much money on the whole new army. Well, unless i get a great deal that is.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Because the Gretchin around the Mekguns are now part of the Mekgun model, does that mean we can shoot from the gretchin?

And because they don't have a ruleset when it says "Must be within 1" of the mekgun" because the gretchin *are* the mekgun, can you chainthem to fire the mekgun even further than normal?

Also, because they "aren't" part of the mekgun, nor do they have rules. How do they move? Can they move?

This is why we can’t have nice things.

I do not have the codex, but just consider the grots as table decoration, or wound counters; not as a means of breaking the unit.

tneva82 wrote:


42% chance of failing and being deleted accomplishing nothing. It's very unreliable to try to deep strike with goffs and remember you will be losing ~60 models a turn against sub optimal gunline so that 90 boyz is mostly dead after enemy gets to shoot.

If you teleport all 3 you get 1-2 squad. Yey. Hopefully screens are cleared so you can actually get to knight. 30 skarboyz does 9 wounds to knight. IF you get 2 units and all into combat(unlikely) you cause 18 wounds. Then those 2 units will get deleted and gap between next knight and the 3rd unit 9" behind can easily be big enough it won't attack next turn either.

I think you're greatly overestimating the difference between 42% chance of failure and 28% chance of failure. Evil Sunz trait doesn't make it a sure thing by any means, just a bit more likely. I don't disagree that it's a considerable boost, but it's by no means certain enough to be relied upon as the lynchpin of your plan. Even Evil Sunz still fail that charge about three times out of ten.

I think your "lose 60 Boyz a turn" rule of thumb will need some testing out, since we've got a lot more tools to mitigate this now. Yeah, if there are just 90 boyz standing around on the table they won't last long against a gunline, but threat overload is always a good defense and now we have stratagems to keep them alive a bit longer. Plus one of those boyz units can come back on from any table edge for 3 CP. If you go second you've got prepared positions, and if you go first your lootas and mek guns can hopefully put a dent in the most dangerous things to your boyz. If you manage to get a unit of Skarboyz into combat with a Knight they'll actually do a little over 10 wounds thanks to the klan kultur, and you can spend the 3 CP to fight a second time and deal another 10 wounds to it after a pile in move, so it's not as hopeless as all that. If you've peeled a few wounds off it with mek guns or lootas the skarboyz should just be there to finish it off. Alternative is Evil Sunz boyz clear away the screen and then struggle to hurt the knight. Skarboyz can clear away the screen and then also finish off the knight.

Again, I'm not suggesting this is the optimal way of getting rid of a Knight, it isn't by any means. I'm just suggesting that, as tempting as it is to get sucked into the Evil Sunz kultur, it's worth trying out some builds centred around other clans to see how they do. On paper, I like the fact that Skarboyz lets you take Boyz confident that you can upgrade them to deal with big scary things that they'd normally struggle with, and still have the numbers to hold the board and chew through screening units. But most importantly, you can make the decision to make them skarboyz AFTER you know what you're up against.

Mellon wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
I'm scratch building mek guns so that one mek gun box+trukk box=4 mek guns.

This sounds interesting. Do you have some pics or advice for the process?

Lots of you tube input on this one - use the truck axles and wheels as the mek gun base, add truck parts to taste, mount mek gun barrel to result, profit.

 Weazel wrote:

Okay I have missed that. Do you have a page reference?

Yeah GW likes to put key rules in little boxes outside of the main body of text. It's at the bottom of page 132, underneath the generic warlord traits.

 office_waaagh wrote:
Plus one of those boyz units can come back on from any table edge for 3 CP.

Yeah. If opponent is stupid enough to conveniently leave them alive rather than wiping them out. That strategem does squash do if you are already dead unit.

The da jump+charge sucked before. S5 doesn't help at all for that as issue never was killing the target. Problem was getting that charge in the first place and failure being simple deletion even faster than if you hadn't da jumped in the first place.

 Latro_ wrote:
also not tactics but quickly on the mek gun front does anyone know the stock dimensions, gonna 'mek' me own

IIRC it’s 8.5 x 6.5 x 6 cm.

 office_waaagh wrote:
I'm trying to make a case to myself for Flash Gitz because I love the models and I think there's a lot of potential there, it's just...not being able to make them bad moonz or death skullz really hurts their damage output relative to lootas or bustas that can double-shoot or re-roll wounds. The 4+ save and 2 wounds combined isn't enough to make up for the fact that they won't be able to use Grot Shields unless they're in a Freebooterz detachment.

I am super annoyed by this also. They started out in 3rd as the archetypal Bad Moonz unit and then got flanderized over the years into being so obnoxious about their guns that they get cast out and can only be Freebootaz.

tneva82 wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:
Plus one of those boyz units can come back on from any table edge for 3 CP.

Yeah. If opponent is stupid enough to conveniently leave them alive rather than wiping them out. That strategem does squash do if you are already dead unit.

The da jump+charge sucked before. S5 doesn't help at all for that as issue never was killing the target. Problem was getting that charge in the first place and failure being simple deletion even faster than if you hadn't da jumped in the first place.

Hey dude, if you don't like it then don't try it. In the world where your opponent always kills boyz in exact multiples of 30 and completely wipes your units, you fail all your deep strike charges, and Knights always have their full wounds when you charge them, not much is going to work.

The comparison to Da Jump isn't great because with tellyporta, stormboyz, etc you can have multiple units appearing at once instead of just one per turn, which was a dicey prospect.

Like I keep saying, I'm not sure that this is a good idea, but I do think it's worth trying out. And I would very humbly suggest to you that your certainty that it isn't a good idea is not well founded, and you should be open to new ideas that don't necessarily align with your own pre-existing ideas and beliefs.

 office_waaagh wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:
Plus one of those boyz units can come back on from any table edge for 3 CP.

Yeah. If opponent is stupid enough to conveniently leave them alive rather than wiping them out. That strategem does squash do if you are already dead unit.

The da jump+charge sucked before. S5 doesn't help at all for that as issue never was killing the target. Problem was getting that charge in the first place and failure being simple deletion even faster than if you hadn't da jumped in the first place.

Hey dude, if you don't like it then don't try it. In the world where your opponent always kills boyz in exact multiples of 30 and completely wipes your units, you fail all your deep strike charges, and Knights always have their full wounds when you charge them, not much is going to work.

The comparison to Da Jump isn't great because with tellyporta, stormboyz, etc you can have multiple units appearing at once instead of just one per turn, which was a dicey prospect.

Like I keep saying, I'm not sure that this is a good idea, but I do think it's worth trying out. And I would very humbly suggest to you that your certainty that it isn't a good idea is not well founded, and you should be open to new ideas that don't necessarily align with your own pre-existing ideas and beliefs.

Who says they kill them in exactly 30's? I'm not expecting them to be "oh let's leave that unit resurrecting and shoot elsewhere because I might kill 2-3 orks more!". That would be stupid. I don't plan on enemy being idiot. What happens when you do that and face non-idiot(most of players)? Answer: You get screwed.

If your grand plan hinges on opponent playing like brain dead idiot then that's not good idea. And the "kill resurrecting unit with slight overkill rather than leave it alive" is fairly standard move that's been known for oh over a year.

But sure. Keep counting "I'm only playing against brain dead idiots" mantra. That's going to work!

tneva82 wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:
Plus one of those boyz units can come back on from any table edge for 3 CP.

Yeah. If opponent is stupid enough to conveniently leave them alive rather than wiping them out. That strategem does squash do if you are already dead unit.

The da jump+charge sucked before. S5 doesn't help at all for that as issue never was killing the target. Problem was getting that charge in the first place and failure being simple deletion even faster than if you hadn't da jumped in the first place.

Hey dude, if you don't like it then don't try it. In the world where your opponent always kills boyz in exact multiples of 30 and completely wipes your units, you fail all your deep strike charges, and Knights always have their full wounds when you charge them, not much is going to work.

The comparison to Da Jump isn't great because with tellyporta, stormboyz, etc you can have multiple units appearing at once instead of just one per turn, which was a dicey prospect.

Like I keep saying, I'm not sure that this is a good idea, but I do think it's worth trying out. And I would very humbly suggest to you that your certainty that it isn't a good idea is not well founded, and you should be open to new ideas that don't necessarily align with your own pre-existing ideas and beliefs.

Who says they kill them in exactly 30's? I'm not expecting them to be "oh let's leave that unit resurrecting and shoot elsewhere because I might kill 2-3 orks more!". That would be stupid. I don't plan on enemy being idiot. What happens when you do that and face non-idiot(most of players)? Answer: You get screwed.

If your grand plan hinges on opponent playing like brain dead idiot then that's not good idea. And the "kill resurrecting unit with slight overkill rather than leave it alive" is fairly standard move that's been known for oh over a year.

But sure. Keep counting "I'm only playing against brain dead idiots" mantra. That's going to work!

I genuinely can't tell if you're serious or not. Possibly you don't know what you're talking about? Irrespective of the fact that you're getting really, really hung up on that one stratagem for some bizarre reason, I don't think you can reasonably claim that units of boyz are only ever either at full strength or wiped out. Tide of traitors gets used fairly often, as I understand it, which does basically the same thing.

I think maybe you need to take a deep breath and calm down, your tone suggests you're getting a bit worked up. At the end of the day it's fine to say "well, office_waaagh, I don't think that's a good idea, but by all means try it and let me know if it works! It would be great to be surprised by an effective new strategy that I wouldn't have thought to try." This is a much more pleasant response to someone you disagree with than "your ideas are bad and you should feel bad because you are a bad person". Relax, mate, we're all friends here.

Guys you're suggesting Tellyporting (2cp) everything and all boyz are going to use Endless Green Tide (3cp) and oh also you better use Fight Twice (3cp) every chance you get... I mean how are you farming all those CPs?

 Weazel wrote:
Guys you're suggesting Tellyporting (2cp) everything and all boyz are going to use Endless Green Tide (3cp) and oh also you better use Fight Twice (3cp) every chance you get... I mean how are you farming all those CPs?

Yeah, CP's would definitely be tight. Not to mention the CPs to put Skarboyz on boyz units. You can only use Endless Green Tide once per game, but it's still expensive. I'd bring at least 2 battallions and ideally a brigade + batallion, hopefully sitting somewhere in the 15-20 CP range to start with, and then prioritize stratagems according to what you're facing. I probably wouldn't deep strike 3 units of Boyz in the first place though. But I'll have to see whether in practice dumping all the CP into one big skarboy tellyport assault on turn 2 is worth it or not. My instinct says no, but I don't like to discount things until I try them in practice.

 Weazel wrote:
Guys you're suggesting Tellyporting (2cp) everything and all boyz are going to use Endless Green Tide (3cp) and oh also you better use Fight Twice (3cp) every chance you get... I mean how are you farming all those CPs?

That too. Let's see. Tellyporting 3 mobs of goffs(guess 2 can do on a pinch if you don't mind bit unreliability)=9 CP. Green tide=12CP. Fight twice=15. Prepared position=17. Maybe he's even planning to use show off with lootas since he's planning to make big dent with them=20. Hopefully he's not then planning to get extra gubbins, mob up, grot shield etc.

With 90 boyz that's also going to be like 660 pts and 3 battallions=6 HQ's and apart from weirdboys which are max 3 we don't have cheap HQ's and none which are really great for teleporting ones(especially as you most def can't afford deep strike those as well. Maybe if your plan was to use blood axe strategem for boyz and characters but then no skarboys)...So brigade+2 battallions(which would be needed for above CP usage) with 90 boyz and big mob of lootas is going to be tricky fit in 2k...

And 1 unit of skarboyz while more manageable then has that 42% and you are dead. And even if you charge you are struggling to get all into b2b contact. Likely the long side is going to be screened so you are facing the sideway moving narrow side for your 9" charge.

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Guys you're suggesting Tellyporting (2cp) everything and all boyz are going to use Endless Green Tide (3cp) and oh also you better use Fight Twice (3cp) every chance you get... I mean how are you farming all those CPs?

That too. Let's see. Tellyporting 3 mobs of goffs(guess 2 can do on a pinch if you don't mind bit unreliability)=9 CP. Green tide=12CP. Fight twice=15. Prepared position=17. Maybe he's even planning to use show off with lootas since he's planning to make big dent with them=20. Hopefully he's not then planning to get extra gubbins, mob up, grot shield etc.

With 90 boyz that's also going to be like 660 pts and 3 battallions=6 HQ's and apart from weirdboys which are max 3 we don't have cheap HQ's and none which are really great for teleporting ones(especially as you most def can't afford deep strike those as well. Maybe if your plan was to use blood axe strategem for boyz and characters but then no skarboys)...So brigade+2 battallions(which would be needed for above CP usage) with 90 boyz and big mob of lootas is going to be tricky fit in 2k...

And 1 unit of skarboyz while more manageable then has that 42% and you are dead. And even if you charge you are struggling to get all into b2b contact. Likely the long side is going to be screened so you are facing the sideway moving narrow side for your 9" charge.

Yeah, good points for sure. I've made a couple of sample lists and the best I can do is brigade+battalion for 20 CP. Could tellyport one unit and da jump another maybe, if you wanted to go that way. There are definitely pitfalls. I'll have to see how survivable 90 boyz are on the table now against different opponents. Up to now I've always been bringing 120-160.

With the new codex I'd like to try two different kinds of lists: a mechanized one with transports, artillery and probably the new missiles buggy and another on focussed on 3 deep striking units, which are 30 boyz, 30 stormboyz and 5+ Meganobz (maybe 3 Deff Dreads instead). Eventually I could also add 15 kommandos but probably only in very relaxed games.

I'm not in favor of a gunline because orks shooting, even with the buffs, it's not amazing anyway. I've already got drukhari for that

I'm also not sure about farming tons of CPs: the only effective way seems to be spamming gretchins which don't benefit from stratagems.

I think the green tide took a serious hit, and I'm frankly happy with that.

What about Ghaz? Is he really dead with the codex? I usually never played him before, because IMHO he was overrated, but now that his +1A aura got nerfed and the Relic Klaw makes a regular Warboss a fighter as good as Ghaz I really don't see the legendary ork as the go-to leader for an ork army.

The Skarboyz stratagem could be very effective on embarked squads of boyz I think. My army is painted as goffs so I'm going to stick with the WYSIWYG kultur for now.

Never mind.

 Blackie wrote:
With the new codex I'd like to try two different kinds of lists: a mechanized one with transports, artillery and probably the new missiles buggy and another on focussed on 3 deep striking units, which are 30 boyz, 30 stormboyz and 5+ Meganobz (maybe 3 Deff Dreads instead). Eventually I could also add 15 kommandos but probably only in very relaxed games.

Not sold on deepstrike for 30 strong stormboyz. If they are evil sun they have 15+7+2d6+1=30" charge range(so get in combat vs stuff 31" away) in one turn provided you have either bike warboss or da jump warboss nearby. That's enough to cause serious T1 threat range and more likely to succeed against many targets than DS+charge! (especially since you use goff) DS stormboyz would be more like for small squads to capture objectives preferably in turn 3 IMO.

BTW not sure is the stormboy change good or bad. 6" advance rather than d6 makes for hell of a fast but you lose 1/6 of squad that way. There's also no way to overcome that like it was before with warboss. Also as the new trike HQ doesn't help them it's either warboss(slow so hard to keep up without da jump) or warboss on bike(not legal for everybody).

I'm also not sure about farming tons of CPs: the only effective way seems to be spamming gretchins which don't benefit from stratagems.

You don't use gretchins to any strategems anyway even if they were legal. They are there for objective control at backfield in which role boyz flat out suck, board control(ditto) and grot shield.

But yeah with boyz dead except for deep striking mucha cp requires grots. Good thing I have 120 of those!

Greentide strat is very powerful. Not just because you get boyz back but for several other reasons:
- you get an outflank
- you annoy your opponents. Sure, with split fire they can generally kill < half of the squad and than go back to killing stuff turn 2 but that's not always possible due to many opponents packing tons of firepower they don't want to waste. And than you use grot shields and get multiple deepstrikes in turn one with dajump and egt (endless greentide).

The fun part is that even with slower grots you can afford to leave part of the ork swuad behind the grot shield - that's gona be lagging behind if you play footslogging evil sunz.

You can leave a couple boyz out of los and than save this last boy with a grot screen.

Opponents can't alwayz wipe the whole squad - especially later on in the game when your opponent has taken casualties allready.

30 boyz turn 1 don't seem that much. 30 boyz returning turn 4 is huge.

I'm a bit torn now:

What would you guys say is better:
Battlewagon with KFF mek for 5++ with 19 (18 if index is banned) Tank bustas
OR
2 trucks 10 tank bustas each with a big mek on bike with KFF trailing along 5++'ing both

works out the sameish pts.

Also:
One thing thats slipped the tactics radar i have noticed is we do have that new 2cp strat so everything starts in cover... kinda imo makes blood axes 18" thing even worse.

 koooaei wrote:
Qadripple kmb deff dreads could be fun for freebotas/bad moonz/deffskullz.

I think for death skullz you want your dread to have around 1-2 KMB/rokkit, to maximise the benefit of your rerollable hit, wound and damgage die.

 Blackie wrote:

I'm also not sure about farming tons of CPs: the only effective way seems to be spamming gretchins which don't benefit from stratagems.

There is such a thing as 10 man boyz-squads. Minimum-squads with one or two rokkit-launchas could be usefull, especially for Death Skulzz. You should be able to take a cheap batallion for 350-400 points even without taking grots.

pismakron wrote:
There is such a thing as 10 man boyz-squads. Minimum-squads with one or two rokkit-launchas could be usefull, especially for Death Skulzz. You should be able to take a cheap batallion for 350-400 points even without taking grots.

10 strong boyz are horribly expensive and softer than grots are. Yea the rokkit is nice with death skulls(only with death skulls) but 82 pts for soft rokkit launcha? What other purpose those have? For chaff/objective holding/board control the much tougher grots are better option.

tneva82 wrote:

pismakron wrote:
There is such a thing as 10 man boyz-squads. Minimum-squads with one or two rokkit-launchas could be usefull, especially for Death Skulzz. You should be able to take a cheap batallion for 350-400 points even without taking grots.

10 strong boyz are horribly expensive and softer than grots are. Yea the rokkit is nice with death skulls(only with death skulls) but 82 pts for soft rokkit launcha? What other purpose those have? For chaff/objective holding/board control the much tougher grots are better option.

The grots are only tougher if you give them a runtherd, and then only mildy so. The purpose of 10 man boyz squads is to walk, not advance, towards objectives or enemy scouts/rangers/stragglers. And when they encounter something mildly tougher, then they can do a bit of damage with their rerollable BC/rokkit/tankbustabomb. And if you want to, you can give them a trukk, making them extremely tough. And trukks are going to be one of the most usefull ork units in the codex, even without any passengers.

I am not saying that this is some kind of superb strategy, just that there are alternatives to 3x10 grots.

I'm convinced I need 2 Bonebreakers full of Nobz and a Battlewagon full (or nearly full) of Tankbustas, Evil Sunz obviously. The problem is that's a hefty amount of points and the only way to get them to fit in a double battalion let alone a brigade is to go 60 Grots. But I don't really want to go 60 Grots...

How would you fill the rest of the list to get a reasonable amount of CPs?

Would you just keep 1 Battalion and try to live with those 8-9 CPs and stack up on more heavy hitters?

No Knights in our meta so no need to prepare for that.