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2018/11/06 11:18:15
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
pismakron wrote: The grots are only tougher if you give them a runtherd, and then only mildy so. The purpose of 10 man boyz squads is to walk, not advance, towards objectives or enemy scouts/rangers/stragglers. And when they encounter something mildly tougher, then they can do a bit of damage with their rerollable BC/rokkit/tankbustabomb. And if you want to, you can give them a trukk, making them extremely tough. And trukks are going to be one of the most usefull ork units in the codex, even without any passengers.
I am not saying that this is some kind of superb strategy, just that there are alternatives to 3x10 grots.
The runtherd isn't required to flat out be tougher vs S4 guns(and advantage only keeps getting bigger the higher S is) than orks. And that was before boys got 1/6 price hike! Seeing how common S4 gun is now that grots are even MORE tough(being already tougher in index) it's safe to say grots are...Well even tougher than boys than they were when they were already tougher.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/06 11:19:30
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Weazel wrote: I'm convinced I need 2 Bonebreakers full of Nobz and a Battlewagon full (or nearly full) of Tankbustas, Evil Sunz obviously. The problem is that's a hefty amount of points and the only way to get them to fit in a double battalion let alone a brigade is to go 60 Grots. But I don't really want to go 60 Grots...
How would you fill the rest of the list to get a reasonable amount of CPs?
Would you just keep 1 Battalion and try to live with those 8-9 CPs and stack up on more heavy hitters?
No Knights in our meta so no need to prepare for that.
Maybe fill one of the bonebreakers with boyz instead of nobz? Not the same punch obviously but quite a bit cheaper plus you "only" need 50 grots then. But yeah, it's a shame how common of a sight the 10 man grot blobs are going to become. I sort of feel that the specialist detchments should've been bumped to 2CP when battalion & brigade went up. And obviously I'm gutted that warbikers aren't troops for evil sunz speed freeks
2018/11/06 11:21:58
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Weazel wrote: I'm convinced I need 2 Bonebreakers full of Nobz and a Battlewagon full (or nearly full) of Tankbustas, Evil Sunz obviously. The problem is that's a hefty amount of points and the only way to get them to fit in a double battalion let alone a brigade is to go 60 Grots. But I don't really want to go 60 Grots...
How would you fill the rest of the list to get a reasonable amount of CPs?
Would you just keep 1 Battalion and try to live with those 8-9 CPs and stack up on more heavy hitters?
No Knights in our meta so no need to prepare for that.
Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz
+ HQ +
Deffkilla Wartrike
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
+ Troops +
Boyz
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
But generally speaking I'd be wary of filling up a battlewagon with tankbustas. That seems like a too juicy of a target in my mind. If you don't get T1 then they'll blow it up and even if you can hide your tankbustas out of LoS so they themselves are safe you don't have another transport big enough for them to jump into.
That's my reason for putting them into a trukk, and having another unit in a trukk alongside them. So if the opportunity presents itself they might have another chance to become trukkbustas.
2018/11/06 11:32:26
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Weazel wrote: I'm convinced I need 2 Bonebreakers full of Nobz and a Battlewagon full (or nearly full) of Tankbustas, Evil Sunz obviously. The problem is that's a hefty amount of points and the only way to get them to fit in a double battalion let alone a brigade is to go 60 Grots. But I don't really want to go 60 Grots...
How would you fill the rest of the list to get a reasonable amount of CPs?
Would you just keep 1 Battalion and try to live with those 8-9 CPs and stack up on more heavy hitters?
No Knights in our meta so no need to prepare for that.
Spoiler:
Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz
+ HQ +
Deffkilla Wartrike
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
+ Troops +
Boyz
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Howabout that? Though you need some room from somewhere to fit in some gear for nobs(I REALLY hate how battlescribe handles equipment for nobs).
Can't come up with much better than that. Cramming up CP's with those is tough. Still 40 grots but better than 60 eh?
edit: One room for gear is 3rd weirdboy. Misclicked 1 more than intended
Well this is pretty close to what I came up with, however I only have one Weirdboy, going to get a second at some point but three is really pushing it. Also a KFF would be pretty nifty to have in case I lose first turn.
Any good alternatives to Deffkoptas, modelwise? I don't have the Black Reach koptas and the one that GW sells is a horrible, horrible model. I can only think of the one that Kromlech sells. Maybe I'll pick up a few and some of their new Grot sculpts as well.
This is getting expensive real fast tbh.
7000+
3500
2000
2018/11/06 11:42:54
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
3 weirdboys was misclick from my part. Wasn't intending 4 HQ's when 3 is minimum! Though warboss with the nobs could work I suppose. Went for the new super useful trike HQ and then wanted 2 cheap ones to fill brigade so weirdboys it is which can be used to save CP(da jump T1 rather than tellyporta. Especially if you were planning to deep strike bonebreakas and nobs to keep 50% on board) or buff character but guess relic power klaw warboss could be neat to have...
KFF is bit expensive. Are you planning to use this for tournament? Noticed lately at least tournaments I go in Finland have index banned so no KFF except morkanaut, that flyer or mega armour big mek.
No idea for deth koptas. Need to figure some myself as well. Alternative 3x5 stormboyz and use them for objective grabbing if you can fit them to reserves still.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 11:43:16
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/06 11:52:05
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
pismakron wrote: The grots are only tougher if you give them a runtherd, and then only mildy so. The purpose of 10 man boyz squads is to walk, not advance, towards objectives or enemy scouts/rangers/stragglers. And when they encounter something mildly tougher, then they can do a bit of damage with their rerollable BC/rokkit/tankbustabomb. And if you want to, you can give them a trukk, making them extremely tough. And trukks are going to be one of the most usefull ork units in the codex, even without any passengers.
I am not saying that this is some kind of superb strategy, just that there are alternatives to 3x10 grots.
The runtherd isn't required to flat out be tougher vs S4 guns(and advantage only keeps getting bigger the higher S is) than orks. And that was before boys got 1/6 price hike! Seeing how common S4 gun is now that grots are even MORE tough(being already tougher in index) it's safe to say grots are...Well even tougher than boys than they were when they were already tougher.
How do you reckon that? As I see it, Boyz that benefit from the mob rule are straight up tougher against S4 than Grots without a runtherd. And to add to what I said before, the Death Skullz clan trait makes that stupid wrecking ball on the trukk into a half decent weapon. Maybe running Grots in Trukks should be a way to get CP's. The grots can shoot when the trukk is in CC.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 11:52:36
2018/11/06 11:53:47
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Anvildude wrote: Hol' on, so the Bonebreaka- when you say 'no limitation' that doesn't mean 'can take as many as it wants of anything', does it?
No limitation meant that it can take everything the battlewagon can take, which is:
- Up to four big shootas
- Killkannon or Kannon or Zzap gun
- one Lobba
- Grot riggers, grabbin' klaw, wreckin' ball, stikkbomb chukka
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/06 12:02:44
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Choppa, Choppa . Nob: Choppa, Choppa
Sounds like an ork song
On topic, I really like that list. I'm going to steal it, with a minor change: Since I'm blood axes, I will have 3x 20 boyz using the blood axe stratagem to hide instead of 30+30+10.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 12:14:25
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/06 12:12:50
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
pismakron wrote: The grots are only tougher if you give them a runtherd, and then only mildy so. The purpose of 10 man boyz squads is to walk, not advance, towards objectives or enemy scouts/rangers/stragglers. And when they encounter something mildly tougher, then they can do a bit of damage with their rerollable BC/rokkit/tankbustabomb. And if you want to, you can give them a trukk, making them extremely tough. And trukks are going to be one of the most usefull ork units in the codex, even without any passengers.
I am not saying that this is some kind of superb strategy, just that there are alternatives to 3x10 grots.
The runtherd isn't required to flat out be tougher vs S4 guns(and advantage only keeps getting bigger the higher S is) than orks. And that was before boys got 1/6 price hike! Seeing how common S4 gun is now that grots are even MORE tough(being already tougher in index) it's safe to say grots are...Well even tougher than boys than they were when they were already tougher.
How do you reckon that? As I see it, Boyz that benefit from the mob rule are straight up tougher against S4 than Grots without a runtherd. And to add to what I said before, the Death Skullz clan trait makes that stupid wrecking ball on the trukk into a half decent weapon. Maybe running Grots in Trukks should be a way to get CP's. The grots can shoot when the trukk is in CC.
S4 wounds T2 less than twice as often as T4. You have more than twice as much grots as you have boyz.
Also you don't btw need runtherd. Warboss will do just as well.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/06 12:18:39
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
What about 6x10 Boyz in 3 BWs as the core of two battallions? With 13-14 CPs I could mob some of those units up and make them decent in combat thanks to the Skarboyz and/or the Fight Twice strategems combined to the Goffs kultur bonus. The main problem would be the slow footslogging HQs if biker ones from the index are not allowed. Mixing trukks and BW only for troops and characters sounds too expensive if I have to embark 6 troops choices but maybe I could try it as well.
Maybe 4x10 boyz in 2 BWs and 2x10 Grots would be a more realistic and flexible choice.
2018/11/06 12:34:38
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
For mob up you need to disembark and it's 2 squads a turn max(and if other squads end up losing just 1-2 per squad they can't even be mobbed up) so that's...not good. And having them on small squads is going to be less efficient than in one big squad. 3x20 and 3x10 grots would be better.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/06 12:38:58
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
S4 wounds T2 less than twice as often as T4. You have more than twice as much grots as you have boyz.
Also you don't btw need runtherd. Warboss will do just as well.
Yes, but are you going to have a warboss camping on an objective? Your above calculation only holds true if you ignore morale and the cost of mitigating it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blackie wrote: What about 6x10 Boyz in 3 BWs as the core of two battallions? With 13-14 CPs I could mob some of those units up and make them decent in combat thanks to the Skarboyz and/or the Fight Twice strategems combined to the Goffs kultur bonus. The main problem would be the slow footslogging HQs if biker ones from the index are not allowed. Mixing trukks and BW only for troops and characters sounds too expensive if I have to embark 6 troops choices but maybe I could try it as well.
Maybe 4x10 boyz in 2 BWs and 2x10 Grots would be a more realistic and flexible choice.
A BW with 2x10 boyz is 260 points. Two trukks with 2x10 boyz is 268 points (274 with wrecking balls)). If you want the open topped option, then the trukks are more durable and can bring a couple of characters along. I definitely think that Death SKullz are the best choice for a MSU trukk-list. Otherwise take a blood axe battlewagon with 2x10 boyz and deepstrike your HQ for one CP per character, using the blood axe dead-sneaky stratagem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 12:48:02
2018/11/06 12:51:30
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Yes, but are you going to have a warboss camping on an objective? Your above calculation only holds true if you ignore morale and the cost of mitigating it.
For example 12 hits, 8 grots die, 2 more to morale. 5 boyz die, 2.5 more boyz die to morale=7.5 boy die. You have lost 52.5 pts vs 30.
The morale hurts more only when you are talking about in very specific cases.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morkphoiz wrote: Can anyone give me a tip on Warbikes? Should I run a lot of small units for free bosses or few larger units?
1 big unit. The -1 to hit protects only from 1. They are still too expensive to run multiple big squads and are super soft without that -1 to hit so maximise it's efficiency. Lots of small squads is only sensible if you already have 1 maxed out squad of bikes
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/06 12:59:19
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/06 13:01:07
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Morkphoiz wrote: Can anyone give me a tip on Warbikes? Should I run a lot of small units for free bosses or few larger units?
I like to run them in smaller units. Sure, the stratagems aren't worth to chuck on 3/4 man bike mobs but they become really flexible, especially if you're evil sunz. Then they're super quick harassing units that still shoot well (for Orks that is) and you get the boss nob in a greater ratio than in large units. 3 bikes, where one is a boss nob with a killsaw+choppa is 84 points. That's a pretty decent deal for the amount of chaff clearance, speed and potential elite killing that unit brings. The cheapo option, with 2 bkes plus the nob with 2 choppas is 69 points if you just want them for capping objectives/clearing screens/soaking up overwatch.
Their pure offensive output isn't that scary per point even with the 4 point drop IMO, but now I really feel like they could find a place in several different builds.
2018/11/06 13:10:40
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
For example 12 hits, 8 grots die, 2 more to morale. 5 boyz die, 2.5 more boyz die to morale=7.5 boy die. You have lost 52.5 pts vs 30.
The morale hurts more only when you are talking about in very specific cases.
No. On average more points of grots will be lost to S4 attacks, when the boyz are benefitting from mob rule (as in three 10 model squads standing next to each other). The exception is when the grots have a runtherd or warboss to buff them.
2018/11/06 13:19:15
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
For example 12 hits, 8 grots die, 2 more to morale. 5 boyz die, 2.5 more boyz die to morale=7.5 boy die. You have lost 52.5 pts vs 30.
The morale hurts more only when you are talking about in very specific cases.
No. On average more points of grots will be lost to S4 attacks, when the boyz are benefitting from mob rule (as in three 10 model squads standing next to each other). The exception is when the grots have a runtherd or warboss to buff them.
If you have 30 boyz guarding objective that's loooooooots of points just sitting duck there and at that point might just as well factor in support for grots.
Also enemy can shoot at middle squad and side squad and so much for the morale bonus. Here's what my opponents learned to do ages ago.
Mob1(30 strong) Mob2(30 strong) Mob3(30 strong)
Blow up 20 from Mob2 and mob3(easy as stealing candy from kid). Mob3 has whopping LD10 and 20 casualties. Next turn blow hole to mob1 and squad next to it and again casualties. Scale tactic to 10 sized mobs and that rule loses meaning.
And of course 10 grots can simply die in the first place negating morale worry to begin with. And seriously? 210 pts to guard one objective? What a waste of points. Good luck trying to win games with strategy like that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 13:19:51
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/06 13:23:22
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
S4 wounds T2 less than twice as often as T4. You have more than twice as much grots as you have boyz.
Also you don't btw need runtherd. Warboss will do just as well.
Yes, but are you going to have a warboss camping on an objective? Your above calculation only holds true if you ignore morale and the cost of mitigating it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blackie wrote: What about 6x10 Boyz in 3 BWs as the core of two battallions? With 13-14 CPs I could mob some of those units up and make them decent in combat thanks to the Skarboyz and/or the Fight Twice strategems combined to the Goffs kultur bonus. The main problem would be the slow footslogging HQs if biker ones from the index are not allowed. Mixing trukks and BW only for troops and characters sounds too expensive if I have to embark 6 troops choices but maybe I could try it as well.
Maybe 4x10 boyz in 2 BWs and 2x10 Grots would be a more realistic and flexible choice.
A BW with 2x10 boyz is 260 points. Two trukks with 2x10 boyz is 268 points (274 with wrecking balls)). If you want the open topped option, then the trukks are more durable and can bring a couple of characters along. I definitely think that Death SKullz are the best choice for a MSU trukk-list. Otherwise take a blood axe battlewagon with 2x10 boyz and deepstrike your HQ for one CP per character, using the blood axe dead-sneaky stratagem.
In my oppinion, boyz should not be riding in battlewagons unless they are goff scarboyz. For all other clans, you can get just as much killing power from a much more survivable unit of nobz, which also fit into a bonebreaka.
The awesome part about a bonebreaka is the transport pulling its own weight, so it's not pure tax on the unit like the trukk or basic battlewagons are.
In general, boyz have not changed much from the index, and back then charging 20 out of a wagon was very underwhelming.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/06 13:30:14
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
For example 12 hits, 8 grots die, 2 more to morale. 5 boyz die, 2.5 more boyz die to morale=7.5 boy die. You have lost 52.5 pts vs 30.
The morale hurts more only when you are talking about in very specific cases.
No. On average more points of grots will be lost to S4 attacks, when the boyz are benefitting from mob rule (as in three 10 model squads standing next to each other). The exception is when the grots have a runtherd or warboss to buff them.
If you have 30 boyz guarding objective that's loooooooots of points just sitting duck there and at that point might just as well factor in support for grots.
Also enemy can shoot at middle squad and side squad and so much for the morale bonus. Here's what my opponents learned to do ages ago.
Mob1(30 strong) Mob2(30 strong) Mob3(30 strong)
Blow up 20 from Mob2 and mob3(easy as stealing candy from kid). Mob3 has whopping LD10 and 20 casualties. Next turn blow hole to mob1 and squad next to it and again casualties. Scale tactic to 10 sized mobs and that rule loses meaning.
And of course 10 grots can simply die in the first place negating morale worry to begin with. And seriously? 210 pts to guard one objective? What a waste of points. Good luck trying to win games with strategy like that.
You are the only one who talked about guarding an objective. I specifically talked about fielding and engaging with 3x10 units of Death SKull boyz. And you made the claim that grotz would be tougher points for point. And that claim is only tue with a runtherd or warboss nearby.
In my oppinion, boyz should not be riding in battlewagons unless they are goff scarboyz. For all other clans, you can get just as much killing power from a much more survivable unit of nobz, which also fit into a bonebreaka.
The awesome part about a bonebreaka is the transport pulling its own weight, so it's not pure tax on the unit like the trukk or basic battlewagons are.
In general, boyz have not changed much from the index, and back then charging 20 out of a wagon was very underwhelming.
Nobz cant act like a CP battery. And the bonebreaka is 159 points for a transport capacity of 12.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 13:35:09
2018/11/06 14:23:05
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Grots are better choice for cp battery as they are cheaper and can be used as shields for better units. I agree wth the assessment on use of nobs. Even on my evil sunz army they will have 6 attacks with double choppa and buffed by warpath. Just played a tournament against a An ork army me on Codex release day with lots of boys and it did terrible. In my meta green tide never did well and truck boys were abysmal. I would not call my meta very competitive
2018/11/06 14:40:35
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
In my oppinion, boyz should not be riding in battlewagons unless they are goff scarboyz. For all other clans, you can get just as much killing power from a much more survivable unit of nobz, which also fit into a bonebreaka.
The awesome part about a bonebreaka is the transport pulling its own weight, so it's not pure tax on the unit like the trukk or basic battlewagons are.
In general, boyz have not changed much from the index, and back then charging 20 out of a wagon was very underwhelming.
12 Nobz or 10 Nobz + 2 Runts are very expensive if embarked in a Bonebreaka. The vehicle becomes priority target and it's not going to reach combat in a single battle. I'd rather put Nobz in a trukk and boyz in Bonebreakas.
I'm not sure that a standard Battlewagon is a pure tax compared to a Bonebreaka. The Battlewagon can also have a Deff Rolla so basically it trades that average of +3/4 attacks with a transport capacity of +8 bodies and a cost of -20 points. 6 attacks with the Rolla aren't garbage compared to 9-10 with the same weapon, that can also be just 7 with a bad roll on the D6.
I agree about the Skarboyz suggestion but since my army is painted as Goffs I'd like to use that stratagem a lot. At least for the first weeks I'm going WYSIWYG with the kultur choice.
2018/11/06 14:42:29
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
1) Kommandos; if you are using a min squad of Kommandos to grab objectives from deepstrike, is it worth spending the extra points for the boss nob and powerclaw?
2) MSU on certain units; given the unreliability or fragileness of some units, is it a must to have a larger squad? Specifically, is 5 Lootas or Tankbustas going to do anything other than die?
Thoughts:
Blood Axes are looking pretty good for surviving turn 1 with mobs of boyz on the field. The clan trait will kick in, and if you really need it, the army wide +1 will make your grot shield only trigger if you fail a 4+ save. With a batt of BAs you would also qualify for the BA warlord strat of regaining all the CPs you're spending .
2018/11/06 14:47:33
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
For example 12 hits, 8 grots die, 2 more to morale. 5 boyz die, 2.5 more boyz die to morale=7.5 boy die. You have lost 52.5 pts vs 30.
The morale hurts more only when you are talking about in very specific cases.
No. On average more points of grots will be lost to S4 attacks, when the boyz are benefitting from mob rule (as in three 10 model squads standing next to each other). The exception is when the grots have a runtherd or warboss to buff them.
If you have 30 boyz guarding objective that's loooooooots of points just sitting duck there and at that point might just as well factor in support for grots.
Also enemy can shoot at middle squad and side squad and so much for the morale bonus. Here's what my opponents learned to do ages ago.
Mob1(30 strong) Mob2(30 strong) Mob3(30 strong)
Blow up 20 from Mob2 and mob3(easy as stealing candy from kid). Mob3 has whopping LD10 and 20 casualties. Next turn blow hole to mob1 and squad next to it and again casualties. Scale tactic to 10 sized mobs and that rule loses meaning.
And of course 10 grots can simply die in the first place negating morale worry to begin with. And seriously? 210 pts to guard one objective? What a waste of points. Good luck trying to win games with strategy like that.
You are the only one who talked about guarding an objective. I specifically talked about fielding and engaging with 3x10 units of Death SKull boyz. And you made the claim that grotz would be tougher points for point. And that claim is only tue with a runtherd or warboss nearby.
You are both right on this in my oppinion. Boyz are way better than gretchin for units that are pushing forward to take objectives from your enemies or just kill stuff. A warboss will be somewhere to mitigate morale and you need the additional durability to S4-7 because you are actually running straight at bolters, assault cannons and the like. Gretchin die too fast and will leave huge holes that expose your characters, plus they do too little when they actually do reach your opponent.
However, in 8th, especially when playing ITC or maelstrom games, you need some units that just sit on objectives somewhere to score points and prevent some jetbikes/scouts/nurglings from just jumping on them for easy points. Unless you are running deff skulls, gretchin are the best units for that job, since you are loosing the least points from just having them sit there all game.
In general, neither boyz nor gretchin will be doing anything while sitting in the backfield, so you want as little points taken from your main force as possible. Any weapon shot at gretchin will be a wast of points, so it really doesn't matter a lot if they are less survivable than boyz - in reality, anything that will wipe out 10 gretchin usually does the same to 10 boyz.
Nobz cant act like a CP battery.
6x 10 boyz are 420 points, add six klaws and you are at 498 points. Add three bare bone battlewagons and you are at 858 points. That's not a CP battery, that's something Grey Knights make fun of because they can generate CP more efficiently.
Just for comparison: 60 Gretchin and two SAG meks and two weird boyz are 464 for 10 CP.
And the bonebreaka is 159 points for a transport capacity of 12.
Bonebreaka is a 159 point monstrous creatures that happens to be transporting nobz.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/06 14:59:10
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
I gota say im loving the new orks. Plenty of build options. Ive been playong AM in 8th but have dusted off my green horde upon purchasing the codex.
Id appreciate thoughts on my list.
Deathskulls spearhead
1xBig mek with shokk gun
3x Mek gunz (traktor cannons)
I know only the big mek gets the kultur but the deathskulls rerolls are ideal for the unreliable shokk gun. Am i right that he'll be able to repair the gunz? For 170 points total i think these guys pack a punch
Evil Sunz brigade
1 x wartrike with kunnin but brutal
1x warboss on bike
1 x big mek with kff and redder armour
1x nob with banner
1 x painboy
1 x 5 nobz in mega armour
1 x 30 boyz
1 x 20 boyz
1 x 18 boyz
3 x 10 grots
3 x 3 bikers nobz with pk
3 x battlewagons with deffrollas
16 CPs
I can get it down to 13 drops (elites and boyz either in battlewagon or telaporting in (can we definitely use the telaport strat multiple time pre game)
I havent gone for the bonebrekka for points reasons. I will definitely be telaporting the nob with a banner as this will ensure he can land nearest the cc where hes +1 to hit will do the most damage.
Im torn as to whether i should telaport the meganobz on their own or in a battlewagon. The 3d6 charge strat would result in a good chance of the deff rolla making its charge after Deep strike. Battlewagons dont get ere we go though.
If i didnt telaport one of the battlewagons id start all 3 battlewagons filled with boyz and a painboy within 9" of the kff. If i get turn one ill just jump the big mek into a battlewagon go hell for leather. If i go second the kff combined with the prepped position means the battlewagon will be 3+ 4++(that plus 1 to cover works on invulnerable saves right) The wartrike would mean they could charge after moving between 15" and 20".
kunnin but brutal looks to gel well with evil sunz with the ability to redeploy the battlewagons/bikes and wartrike near the enemies closest units. Further supporting a t1 charge.
If i went with the 3 x battlewagon rush id have to drop one of the boyz squad from 30 to 20. This lowers the possibility of the greentide strat being used and means its highly unlikely none of my boyz will ever get the +1 attack for being over 20.
The drop from 30 to 20 boyz woukd allow me to change the big mek with kff and boss on bike with mega armour big mek and another wartrike respectively removing all index models (if that was ever an issue)
The kff prepped position combo looks quality in the event i go second although obviously a turn one charge would ukd benefit fot me more.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/06 15:08:08
7000+
3500
2000 
