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Dual Slugga Nobz can melee just fine. Every model has Range: Melee, S:User, AP:0, D:1 weapon in addition to any other weapons they might have. I believe this was FAQ'd.

 Weazel wrote:
Dual Slugga Nobz can melee just fine. Every model has Range: Melee, S:User, AP:0, D:1 weapon in addition to any other weapons they might have. I believe this was FAQ'd.

Well if you call 3 S5 AP0 D1 as "just fine" Going to lack a punch and dual slugga isn't that hot either though conversion would be funny.

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Dual Slugga Nobz can melee just fine. Every model has Range: Melee, S:User, AP:0, D:1 weapon in addition to any other weapons they might have. I believe this was FAQ'd.

Well if you call 3 S5 AP0 D1 as "just fine" Going to lack a punch and dual slugga isn't that hot either though conversion would be funny.

Didn't say it was viable or good, however there was an argument made that dual Slugga Nobz could not melee at all.

 Weazel wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Dual Slugga Nobz can melee just fine. Every model has Range: Melee, S:User, AP:0, D:1 weapon in addition to any other weapons they might have. I believe this was FAQ'd.

Well if you call 3 S5 AP0 D1 as "just fine" Going to lack a punch and dual slugga isn't that hot either though conversion would be funny.

Didn't say it was viable or good, however there was an argument made that dual Slugga Nobz could not melee at all.

Hmm where was such arqument? Previous page had this:

"So... If you can give Nobz 2 Sluggas... Don't Sluggas count as melee weapons, and doesn't that give them an extra attack in melee due to being paired weapons? Or is that not a thing anymore... "

If you refer to that that was asking if you get +1 attack in h2h for having 2 sluggas(like in 7th ed).

People wondering how to get in melta range with a TB unit. Stick them in a truck. Charge the truck at a target (say a screen) locking it into melee while keeping within 6" of a knight/vehicle for tankbusta bombs - profit. Truck can be deepstrukk/tellyportad too, worst case it fails the charge but the TB fire anyway. Thoughts?

Also (can't check this atm), do Skarboyz bossnobz increase in Strength too (do they go to S6)?

I can see goffs being the best mechanised lists, Skarboyz are cheap pointwise and mean, don't really care about being below 20 in number.. I'm thinking up a mechanised Goff list with some grots for cp, will report later on this.

Sluggaloo wrote:
People wondering how to get in melta range with a TB unit. Stick them in a truck. Charge the truck at a target (say a screen) locking it into melee while keeping within 6" of a knight/vehicle for tankbusta bombs - profit. Truck can be deepstrukk/tellyportad too, worst case it fails the charge but the TB fire anyway. Thoughts?

Danger is what has invariably happened everytime I charge with transport with valuable cargo still inside: Enemy surrounds vehicle and blows it. Bye bye vehicle, bye bye cargo. They don't even have to bother to shoot at the contents. Worse if the unit surrounding it can do it...I escaped from this once but that was vs rookie player who didn't surround the battlewagon despite having ample chance to do that...

Also obviously knight will have ample time to go elsewhere with his 12" movement. Or charge(by now sure to be dead) contents of trukk and kill 'em.

Maybe works better vs russ etc who aren't as mobile and don't come in charging with 12" stomps(or pack plenty of guns) but knight is nasty one. Especially as knights tend to be accompanied by cheap IG chaff to surround the trukk in the first place...

tneva82 wrote:

Sluggaloo wrote:
People wondering how to get in melta range with a TB unit. Stick them in a truck. Charge the truck at a target (say a screen) locking it into melee while keeping within 6" of a knight/vehicle for tankbusta bombs - profit. Truck can be deepstrukk/tellyportad too, worst case it fails the charge but the TB fire anyway. Thoughts?

Danger is what has invariably happened everytime I charge with transport with valuable cargo still inside: Enemy surrounds vehicle and blows it. Bye bye vehicle, bye bye cargo. They don't even have to bother to shoot at the contents. Worse if the unit surrounding it can do it...I escaped from this once but that was vs rookie player who didn't surround the battlewagon despite having ample chance to do that...

Also obviously knight will have ample time to go elsewhere with his 12" movement. Or charge(by now sure to be dead) contents of trukk and kill 'em.

Maybe works better vs russ etc who aren't as mobile and don't come in charging with 12" stomps(or pack plenty of guns) but knight is nasty one. Especially as knights tend to be accompanied by cheap IG chaff to surround the trukk in the first place...

That is an excellent point about the surround risk I hadn't considered. However it does depend on the screen. I wouldn't be at all worried if a guardsmen unit I charge into were to surround the truck, the longer the truck is locked in melee, the more rounds of shooting TB have uninterrupted.

And as for the knight.. what knight? You'll 100-0 a knight if you lob 10 TB bombs, TWICE. I think those two stratagems in tandem is legal?

Sluggaloo wrote:
That is an excellent point about the surround risk I hadn't considered. However it does depend on the screen. I wouldn't be at all worried if a guardsmen unit I charge into were to surround the truck, the longer the truck is locked in melee, the more rounds of shooting TB have uninterrupted.

And as for the knight.. what knight? You'll 100-0 a knight if you lob 10 TB bombs, TWICE. I think those two stratagems in tandem is legal?

Things are rarely alone though. It's not the one unit in h2h you are worried. It's the one unit falling back, getting some buddies to surround and then have trukk deleted by autocannons/missile launchers/plasma guns. If there's stuff around that can surround it it's 1 turn job.

And the knight you are trying to get into melta bomb range by charging trukk into screen with tank bustas loaded in. You need to disembark to use the strategem so either you drive in(hopefully avoiding trukk being blown to bits) or deep strike and then you need to be in range that is enough to disembark and walk into grenade range. Which is distance either knight can move to safety or charge in himself killing the(sure to be dead) tank bustas once they disembark from wrecked trukk.

Remember you can't drive next to knight inside trukk and use the grenade strategem nor show off.

tneva82 wrote:
Remember you can't drive next to knight inside trukk and use the grenade strategem nor show off.

Aw shucks

Moriarty wrote:

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:
Thanks for some of the thoughts posted, I'd still be interested to know how the Big-Gun Kannon is ranking given the changes verses the KMK.

It seems it might have old krew rules (??)
It doesn't benefit from the Dakka Dakka Dakka rule
It's the same points, whereas KMK is + 30 points (??)

Any thoughts?

Big Guns still available with Index rules according to GW, are cheaper, have poorer stats, but still give high S shots. Being cheaper means more shots per point anyway - possibly better than having DDD? If the opponent targets them, more models is a bonus.

Can’ say how they would ‘rank’, but for me they are still a good choice.

I think in the index everyone agreed they were the poor-man's artillery choice, but they sound like they might be a bit of a sleeper unit now, given that (due to their absence in the codex) they're retaining a lot of the features nerfed from the Mek Gunz, if what Koooaei stated (meant to state) about kannons having Klan traits, the Gunz being Orks, then that sounds like they might be dead nasty.

In which case, and also regardless of Klan rules, does anyone think it might be the better long-range support unit??

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

Moriarty wrote:

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:
Thanks for some of the thoughts posted, I'd still be interested to know how the Big-Gun Kannon is ranking given the changes verses the KMK.

It seems it might have old krew rules (??)
It doesn't benefit from the Dakka Dakka Dakka rule
It's the same points, whereas KMK is + 30 points (??)

Any thoughts?

Big Guns still available with Index rules according to GW, are cheaper, have poorer stats, but still give high S shots. Being cheaper means more shots per point anyway - possibly better than having DDD? If the opponent targets them, more models is a bonus.

Can’ say how they would ‘rank’, but for me they are still a good choice.

I think in the index everyone agreed they were the poor-man's artillery choice, but they sound like they might be a bit of a sleeper unit now, given that (due to their absence in the codex) they're retaining a lot of the features nerfed from the Mek Gunz, if what Koooaei stated (meant to state) about kannons having Klan traits, the Gunz being Orks, then that sounds like they might be dead nasty.

In which case, and also regardless of Klan rules, does anyone think it might be the better long-range support unit??

Until they get FAQ' (which they will).. it would appear so. They retain the old grout gunners rules which the codex removed from the mek guns so there will be plenty of people riding to abuse them further.

Sluggaloo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Remember you can't drive next to knight inside trukk and use the grenade strategem nor show off.

Aw shucks

That would certainly have made that grenade swing awesome! Now it's super specialised as enemy has to be pretty nutty to leave those tankbustas walking into melta bomb range untouched. Maybe some will reach but as fun as 10 melta bombs sounds in practice unless you go for like 3x15 tank bustas and try to swarm them by sheer numbers...Yeah wouldn't count on actually doing that 10 grenades!

BTW how much non-vehicle stuff with like T7 or better and 3+ or better save and lots of wounds? Those seems to be tough one to deal with. Even with lootas with more dakka and show off you are looking at ~16 wounds vs T7 if they get 4+ save. Good as such but was looking at castellan robots(6 of them would be nasty. 9 dead orks PER ROBOT when they go for all gung-ho). Luckily those are vehicles so tank bustas will fare much better(basically averaging 3 dead castellan and wound) but noticed that if they werent' vehicles it would have been pretty much same which you use.

Not that ~15 wounds would be bad but only 2 robots dead and 4-5CP used plus lootas dead next.

Thank the gork those are vehicles!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

I think in the index everyone agreed they were the poor-man's artillery choice, but they sound like they might be a bit of a sleeper unit now, given that (due to their absence in the codex) they're retaining a lot of the features nerfed from the Mek Gunz, if what Koooaei stated (meant to state) about kannons having Klan traits, the Gunz being Orks, then that sounds like they might be dead nasty.

In which case, and also regardless of Klan rules, does anyone think it might be the better long-range support unit??

Keep in mind they don't gain the dakkadakkadakka though so -3 to hit=auto miss and no extra shots.

If kannons can get deathskull clan rules, they probably just turned into the best point-for-point fire support option in ALL OF 40K

Which is pretty ludicrous for orks.

My first thought is that they probably CAN benefit from deathskull s trait RAW as they and their grot crew are separate units, and the kannons themselves do not have the gretchin keyword.

Hope this gets FAQed tbh cos if it works then GW just broke the game - guilliman re-rolls for free plus a bonus damage re-roll plus a random bonus 6++ save on an already good platform. Raven knight castellans will wish they had access to this kind of dakka lol

tneva82 wrote:

Sluggaloo wrote:
BTW how much non-vehicle stuff with like T7 or better and 3+ or better save and lots of wounds? Those seems to be tough one to deal with.

Hmm of the top of my head other than Tyranids and daemons I can't think of any other faction bringing that sort of profile. So no Imperial soup at least I think? Best answer might just be the Smashboss.

Edit: oops I f*cked p that quote!

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Dual Slugga Nobz can melee just fine. Every model has Range: Melee, S:User, AP:0, D:1 weapon in addition to any other weapons they might have. I believe this was FAQ'd.

Well if you call 3 S5 AP0 D1 as "just fine" Going to lack a punch and dual slugga isn't that hot either though conversion would be funny.

Didn't say it was viable or good, however there was an argument made that dual Slugga Nobz could not melee at all.

Hmm where was such arqument? Previous page had this:

"So... If you can give Nobz 2 Sluggas... Don't Sluggas count as melee weapons, and doesn't that give them an extra attack in melee due to being paired weapons? Or is that not a thing anymore... "

If you refer to that that was asking if you get +1 attack in h2h for having 2 sluggas(like in 7th ed).

Might have been a while back, when the dual slugga option was first mentioned.

By the way, who at GW thought that 18 points for a lobba is okay? Why would I ever want to stick that to my battlewagons?

 DoomMouse wrote:
If kannons can get deathskull clan rules, they probably just turned into the best point-for-point fire support option in ALL OF 40K

Which is pretty ludicrous for orks.

My first thought is that they probably CAN benefit from deathskull s trait RAW as they and their grot crew are separate units, and the kannons themselves do not have the gretchin keyword.

Hope this gets FAQed tbh cos if it works then GW just broke the game - guilliman re-rolls for free plus a bonus damage re-roll plus a random bonus 6++ save on an already good platform. Raven knight castellans will wish they had access to this kind of dakka lol

Has GW FAQ'ed index after codex comes out?

Hey at least the CREW doesn't get the 6+++

But yeah nasty kannons. Guess one arqument for many tournaments to ban index.

edit: Unit of 6 kannons would cause ~9 wounds to knight on 5++(RIS wouldn't much help for knight player as they shoot 1 at a time and if he activates RIS for first one you switch target) counting reroll to damage as ~4 wounds(2d6 pick highest is pretty much spot on 4.5 but just reroll is not as good. Are you going to reroll 3? 4? 5?).

486 for 18 kannons which would vaporize knight. Without reroll to damage rolls 23.6 wounds. Though presumably partway through damage RIS WOULD come up as by then it's worse for orks to split damage between 2 than take the enemy the RIS boost

 Jidmah wrote:
By the way, who at GW thought that 18 points for a lobba is okay? Why would I ever want to stick that to my battlewagons?

The 18 point lobba is right up there with the 5 point cybork upgrade IMO, only to be edged out by the frankly offensive 5 point stikkbomb chukka

tneva82 wrote:
edit: Unit of 6 kannons would cause ~9 wounds to knight on 5++(RIS wouldn't much help for knight player as they shoot 1 at a time and if he activates RIS for first one you switch target) counting reroll to damage as ~4 wounds(2d6 pick highest is pretty much spot on 4.5 but just reroll is not as good. Are you going to reroll 3? 4? 5?).

When re-rolling dice for max result, re-rolling up to 3 will yield a higher average result, while re-rolling fours (or even fives) will yield a lower average result. I did the math for 7th edition's 'ere we go, I think I still have the spreadsheet somewhere if you want the math.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
edit: Unit of 6 kannons would cause ~9 wounds to knight on 5++(RIS wouldn't much help for knight player as they shoot 1 at a time and if he activates RIS for first one you switch target) counting reroll to damage as ~4 wounds(2d6 pick highest is pretty much spot on 4.5 but just reroll is not as good. Are you going to reroll 3? 4? 5?).

When re-rolling dice for max result, re-rolling up to 3 will yield a higher average result, while re-rolling fours (or even fives) will yield a lower average result. I did the math for 7th edition's 'ere we go, I think I still have the spreadsheet somewhere if you want the math.

Hmm wouldn't that make sense though. Average is 3.5 so if you reroll 3 you are getting average of 3.5. Maybe I'm too simplistic.

Though always not as simple as that but especially start of knight hunting would be reroll 1-3 then.

Sluggaloo wrote:


Also (can't check this atm), do Skarboyz bossnobz increase in Strength too (do they go to S6)?

Sadly no. The strategem says that Boyz get S5 not +1S. That would make big choppas S8 and way more effective, something I'd really like to happen ma sadly it's not how the strategem works.

Without re-creating the spreadsheed, it basically works like this:
If you rolle a 1, you re-roll for average 3.5, if you roll a 2, you re-roll for avarage 3.5, etc. You keep 4, 5 and 6.

The average after a re-roll would be 3.5+3.5+3.5+4+5+6, for an average of 4.25. If you re-roll threes as well, the average goes to 4.16, if you re-roll anything but a six it goes to 3.91.

Of course, that's only half the truth, as the averages don't properly reflect the chance of each result actually happening.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a completely unrelated note: I know that the difference between the wazbom and the other planes is just one sprue, and since my planes are fully magnetized, I don't really want to buy more of them.

Does anyone know a store where I can buy just the upgrade sprue?

 Jidmah wrote:

Of course, that's only half the truth, as the averages don't properly reflect the chance of each result actually happening.

Yep. And sometimes keeping 3 is more valuable than aiming for 6 and risking worse

Guess I'm going to konvert a bunch of big gunz/mek gunz then. If they do ban index or nerf kannons if I just make something suitably orky and shooty I'll run them as smasha guns or KMKs instead

 Elfric wrote:
A couple of questions :

1) I guess Forgeworld units like Deff Dread, Grot Tanks, Kill Tanks etc don't benefit from kukturs? Just DDD

2) A squad of 10 Bad Moonz tank bustas with Extra Stikk bombs and Showin Off can throw 10d3 melta bombs twice a target. That's correct?

Grot tanks are Gretchin keyworded so no
Meka dread and kill tanks have the clan tag which confers kulturs

 Elfric wrote:

2) A squad of 10 Bad Moonz tank bustas with Extra Stikk bombs and Showin Off can throw 10d3 melta bombs twice a target. That's correct?

Yes.



That phase. Showing off still happens in shooting phase(indeed right after it has shot first time) so grenade strategem is still active.

gungo wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
A couple of questions :

1) I guess Forgeworld units like Deff Dread, Grot Tanks, Kill Tanks etc don't benefit from kukturs? Just DDD

2) A squad of 10 Bad Moonz tank bustas with Extra Stikk bombs and Showin Off can throw 10d3 melta bombs twice a target. That's correct?

Grot tanks are Gretchin keyworded so no
Meka dread and kill tanks have the clan tag which confers kulturs

Shame about the Grot tanks as i have a Mega Tank and 4 regular tanks, but great news about my Mega Dread! I know it's expensive in money and points, but a Goff or Freebooter Kill Tank is frightening when you think about what it can do. Insane rate of fire depending on the gun, plus it's at Strength 10 if it charges in. Load up with Meganobz and go Knight hunting. You can even deepstrike a Kill tank as it's 18 PL.

Hey all

Been building my new Deffkilla Wartrike and been thinking on how to get him up the board. So far I have:-
- Kult = Evil Sunz. +2"M, +1"Adv, +1"Charge
- Fuel Mixa Grot. 6" Adv instead of D6
- Strat Ramming Speed. 3D6 Charge.
- Maybe use the Kunnin' But Brutal Warlord trait to redeploy.

That would be a M+Adv+Charge of 33" on average. Can anyone get more out of this?

 vim_the_good wrote:
Hey all

Been building my new Deffkilla Wartrike and been thinking on how to get him up the board. So far I have:-
- Kult = Evil Sunz. +2"M, +1"Adv, +1"Charge
- Fuel Mixa Grot. 6" Adv instead of D6
- Strat Ramming Speed. 3D6 Charge.
- Maybe use the Kunnin' But Brutal Warlord trait to redeploy.

That would be a M+Adv+Charge of 33" on average. Can anyone get more out of this?

You are bit off actually. 16" base+7 for advance+11.5 for average charge=34.5" so 35.5" away will be tagged. Frankly that's overkill though. Save ramming speed. Orks are super hungry for CP and even without it you will get 31" anyway without ramming speed.

So, here you go. Index guilliorks.

Deffskullz:
3 lil meks with kmb
3 solo koptaz with kmb
3x6 kannonz

Heard you like rerolls.