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2018/11/09 14:22:09
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Why take Traktor cannons against knights? Those aren't really efficient against them, imo. You'll be better off with KMK due to the higher number of shots.
This is an all comers list, testing for a tournament, sorry should have said. Will try it against a few different style armies
mean green fightin machine
2018/11/09 14:27:26
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Why take Traktor cannons against knights? Those aren't really efficient against them, imo. You'll be better off with KMK due to the higher number of shots.
This is an all comers list, testing for a tournament, sorry should have said. Will try it against a few different style armies
Ah, that makes more sense then. Looks good overall.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/09 14:28:10
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/11/09 15:53:08
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: Got my first game with the codex today against knights, 2 of the little ones and 3 of the big ones I think... dunno what they are lol Will let you know how it goes!
The tankbustas are in the Battlewagon and the Meganobz are in the bonebreaka, the bone breaker will teleport in.
Awesome 1750 list tell me how it does
I feel bad for people who can’t use the index and a much lesser degree forgeworld. You are completely hampered by no index units. We lost so many options through GW discontinuing so many models. The main loss was the massive utility of so many aura characters.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think another star unit people need to look at are evil sun burna kommandos.
They have been upgraded with the codex.
Evilsun kommandos can finally reliably make a charge.
Still have decent saves (with cover).
But can still have 2 burnas for free (index) and now Tankbusta Bombs which pair well with burna range.
And still use that kommando BC nob you got from forgeworld upgrade set (index).
With the price increase on boyz kommandos are a no brainer to help supplement that turn 2 beta strike.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/11/09 17:58:12
2018/11/09 19:01:55
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
They went over several example lists, and made a large number of errors. By my count 3 of the 8 lists were illegal (ie points don't add up, detachments aren't legal), and one of them didn't work the way he said it did.
Some of that is just extremely casual player trying to talk about a new book.
But, I think the Gretchen restriction on Gretchen, Killa Kans, Mek Guns is going to catch out lots, and lots of people. He was convinced that Killa Kans got cover for being blood axes, and could leave combat and shoot, and that Mek Guns got the benefit of Freebootas.
Don't make the same mistake. Know your Gretchen.
2018/11/09 19:08:59
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
I tabled him turn 4 go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder tbh though. The bonebreaker took some horrific damage in overwatch to a knight and so was a bit crap, I expected more.
Main thoughts are that I need some little fast units to soak up over watch, don’t know where I would lose the points from though
mean green fightin machine
2018/11/09 19:36:05
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: I tabled him turn 4 go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder tbh though. The bonebreaker took some horrific damage in overwatch to a knight and so was a bit crap, I expected more.
Main thoughts are that I need some little fast units to soak up over watch, don’t know where I would lose the points from though
Good going on the tabling.
Little Fast Units tend not to soak up knight overwatch, they tend to be vaporized by it, allowing the knight to kill multiple things on your turn.
Possibly an new, empty trukk.
2018/11/09 19:40:46
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: I tabled him turn 4 go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder tbh though. The bonebreaker took some horrific damage in overwatch to a knight and so was a bit crap, I expected more. Main thoughts are that I need some little fast units to soak up over watch, don’t know where I would lose the points from though
Have you considered grots? A full squad of 30 is only 90. That's the only expendable unit I could think of. Orks don't have something that's cheap and fast. Well, I guess you can use storm boyz, but that's a waste.
A sacrificial trukk might be a good idea.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/09 19:50:16
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/11/09 20:05:05
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: I tabled him turn 4 go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder tbh though. The bonebreaker took some horrific damage in overwatch to a knight and so was a bit crap, I expected more.
Main thoughts are that I need some little fast units to soak up over watch, don’t know where I would lose the points from though
what warlord trait did you use? Brutal but kunnin will give you a to hit reroll and plus 1 damage
That usually should come out ahead of the +1 str +1 atk trait except maybe knights.
Would love to know which is better for trikeboss.
2018/11/09 20:18:14
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: I tabled him turn 4 go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder tbh though. The bonebreaker took some horrific damage in overwatch to a knight and so was a bit crap, I expected more.
Main thoughts are that I need some little fast units to soak up over watch, don’t know where I would lose the points from though
Howd your MANZ do?
Also, wouldn't koptas be best for soaking up overwatch? Fast, cheap, somewhat durable, and can fight back with the rotors.
2018/11/09 21:41:59
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
I took the rerolls vs vehicles and monsters one but then just before the game changed to the Evil Sunz fall back and charge one as the trike rerolls wounds anyway lol My mate was good enough to just let me switch it because I was play testing.
@zend the Meganobz were great when they got in by turn 3, I used the boarding action with them in turn 2 but that sucked, 5 attacks hitting on 4s wounding on 3s wasn’t great and I rolled badly as well and it was the beast knight with a 4 up invul.... but it’s ok turn 3 they got out and slapped him silly
mean green fightin machine
2018/11/09 21:43:20
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: I tabled him turn 4 go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder tbh though. The bonebreaker took some horrific damage in overwatch to a knight and so was a bit crap, I expected more.
Main thoughts are that I need some little fast units to soak up over watch, don’t know where I would lose the points from though
Have you considered grots? A full squad of 30 is only 90.
That's the only expendable unit I could think of. Orks don't have something that's cheap and fast.
Well, I guess you can use storm boyz, but that's a waste.
A sacrificial trukk might be a good idea.
A Trukk is going to get blown to bits by Knight overwatch. Knights have relatively few shots for their cost so your best bet is to sent in a Boyz mob to eat overwatch (and a big enough mob will actually also shave a few wounds off of it) and then send in the model you actually want to kill the thing with.
BAN wrote: I tabled him turn 4 go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder tbh though. The bonebreaker took some horrific damage in overwatch to a knight and so was a bit crap, I expected more.
Main thoughts are that I need some little fast units to soak up over watch, don’t know where I would lose the points from though
Howd your MANZ do?
Also, wouldn't koptas be best for soaking up overwatch? Fast, cheap, somewhat durable, and can fight back with the rotors.
Same as for the Trukk: Kopta's are 4W models that cost about 40-50 points each. Knights LOVE to overwatch those. To eat Knight overwatch you need to send in a horde of low-cost bodies so the Knight massively overkills them and your charge only costs 28 points (4 Boyz) instead of 80+ (2 or 3 Koptas). If you can somehow get Gretchin in reliable charging distance you should use those of course but under normal circumstances Evil Sunz Boyz are your best bet for overwatch soaking.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/09 21:49:47
2018/11/09 21:45:47
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: I tabled him turn 4 go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder tbh though. The bonebreaker took some horrific damage in overwatch to a knight and so was a bit crap, I expected more.
Main thoughts are that I need some little fast units to soak up over watch, don’t know where I would lose the points from though
Have you considered grots? A full squad of 30 is only 90.
That's the only expendable unit I could think of. Orks don't have something that's cheap and fast.
Well, I guess you can use storm boyz, but that's a waste.
A sacrificial trukk might be a good idea.
A Trukk is going to get blown to bits by Knight overwatch. Knights have relatively few shots for their cost so your best bet is to sent in a Boyz mob to eat overwatch (and a big enough mob will actually also shave a few wounds off of it) and then send in the model you actually want to kill the thing with.
Alright, back to grot cannon fodder then. Much cheaper than boyz.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/11/09 21:59:52
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
I used the mobbed up 40 boyz to multi charge 2 knights turn 1 then the Warboss bike and the trike charged and killed 1 in combat. So the boyz did their job but they were all dead by turn 2 after 2 rounds of combat with a night plus a round of shooting ( he fell back and charged again)
mean green fightin machine
2018/11/09 22:26:31
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Coh Magnussen wrote: Can a stuck-in unit fire overwatch with pistols if it gets subsequently charged?
A model "cannot fire [Overwatch] if there are any enemy models within 1" of it."
Considering that a charging unit will be more than 1" away from the unit, and you're within 1" of an enemy unit already, there is no possible way for the charging unit to be the closest unit, so the Pistol rule doesn't help.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/09 22:28:57
2018/11/09 22:50:19
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: I used the mobbed up 40 boyz to multi charge 2 knights turn 1 then the Warboss bike and the trike charged and killed 1 in combat. So the boyz did their job but they were all dead by turn 2 after 2 rounds of combat with a night plus a round of shooting ( he fell back and charged again)
Sweet it worked out well then that’s what I want to do as well. Use warpath and dajump as a screen clear.
Then Wartrike, warboss on bike, painboy on bike, zhardsnark and 3 scrapjets.
Did the evil sun trait help at all?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/09 23:45:11
2018/11/09 23:00:53
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Wouldn't the KMK be more efficient over all though, due to the higher number of shots? I mean, you do have to roll to hit, but you also get more than one shot.
I don't know, the tractor cannon's single shot doesn't appeal to me. You can only deal at most 6 damage, and that's if you are lucky. You need at least 2 if you want to deal good damage in a single turn, and I'd still rather use KMK just because of the extra shots, which means more damage overall.
In terms of priority and frequency, I would go KMK - Smasha - Traktor, with traktor only being available if there's room for it.
Bubblechucka is not even under consideration because its gak. What is even the point?
Going back to this a bit, the KMK is objectively worse than two Smasha guns at literally everything. Pay those 2 extra points to double your wounds, split your fire, get better range, better AP, more shots and no overheat.
The only time a KMK could possibly be a consideration is if you're somehow running out of Mek Gun slots.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2018/11/09 23:32:19
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
I know you guys say Mek guns don't benefit from the kulturs, but it does say Units comprises "entirely" of gretchin. And the mekguns are vehicles and gretchin. So that's not entirely gretchin. What do you guys think about that? To me it feels like they do benefit.
2018/11/09 23:57:52
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Gruxz wrote: I know you guys say Mek guns don't benefit from the kulturs, but it does say Units comprises "entirely" of gretchin. And the mekguns are vehicles and gretchin. So that's not entirely gretchin. What do you guys think about that? To me it feels like they do benefit.
Show us a model in the Mek Gun unit that does not have the <GRETCHIN> keyword....
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2018/11/10 00:11:03
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Gruxz wrote: I know you guys say Mek guns don't benefit from the kulturs, but it does say Units comprises "entirely" of gretchin. And the mekguns are vehicles and gretchin. So that's not entirely gretchin. What do you guys think about that? To me it feels like they do benefit.
Except they don't.
Read the entry where it says mek guns and gretchin count as a single model for all rules purposes.
Mek Guns are just oversized weapons for the gretchin.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/11/10 01:31:35
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
BAN wrote: Yeh I think the evil suns worked, passed a couple of charges only because of the +1!
sorry I mean the warlord trait evil suns is great for 9in charge.
Ahhh, well it was a bit of a hasty mistake I think I didn’t find much call to use it in this game really, tempted to take brutal but Kunning for the extra damage on the charge more than the reroll hits. Or the +1 toughness maybe can’t decide.
mean green fightin machine
2018/11/10 01:45:07
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Wouldn't the KMK be more efficient over all though, due to the higher number of shots? I mean, you do have to roll to hit, but you also get more than one shot.
I don't know, the tractor cannon's single shot doesn't appeal to me. You can only deal at most 6 damage, and that's if you are lucky. You need at least 2 if you want to deal good damage in a single turn, and I'd still rather use KMK just because of the extra shots, which means more damage overall.
In terms of priority and frequency, I would go KMK - Smasha - Traktor, with traktor only being available if there's room for it.
Bubblechucka is not even under consideration because its gak. What is even the point?
Going back to this a bit, the KMK is objectively worse than two Smasha guns at literally everything. Pay those 2 extra points to double your wounds, split your fire, get better range, better AP, more shots and no overheat.
The only time a KMK could possibly be a consideration is if you're somehow running out of Mek Gun slots.
More shots? Its D3. You do get more minimum shots, but the max number of shots is the same.
Smasha guns also have that weird wounding thing where you have to exceed the targets toughness.
If I calculated it right, you have a 41% chance of wounding T8 and a 58% chance of wounding T7.
The KMK has a 50% chance of wounding T8 and a 66% chance of wounding T7.
Where the smasha gun excels though is against T4-T6; you have a 92% chance of wounding T4, a 83% chance of wounding T5 and a 72% chance of wounding T6.
In comparison, the KMK only has a wound chance of 83% against T4 and a 66% of wounding anything between T5-T7.
So against T7 and above, the KMK is statistically better if I calculated it right.
Against anything under that the Smasha Gun is statistically better.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/11/10 05:27:02
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
So i had my first game with the new buggies and gotta say ive drastically dropped my opinion of the boostablasta.
Its range and lack of proper melee (since it has decent stats but no ap, charging for the Spiked Ram is about all i'd do with it) makes it highly vulnerable. I think its gotta stick to evil sunz so they can Drive By alot, since being so close they will get charged.
I think i just got lucky with my dragsta because holy crap it mulched so many primaris! actually forced my opponent to divert his attention to it instead of my deffdread trio (win for me!)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/10 05:35:50
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2018/11/10 08:12:45
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Smasha guns also have that weird wounding thing where you have to exceed the targets toughness.
If I calculated it right, you have a 41% chance of wounding T8 and a 58% chance of wounding T7.
The KMK has a 50% chance of wounding T8 and a 66% chance of wounding T7.
You're right, I brainfarted for a moment and thought T7 was as high as it goes.
However, I believe that the extra 0.5 shots on average from 2 Smasha guns narrows the gap enough that with their extra point of AP it translates into more wounds even vs T7 or T8, as long as the target has a 3+ or better save and no invulnerable.
T8
KMK 3.5 shots * 1/2 to wound = 1.75 damage rolls
KMK 3.5 shots * 1/2 to wound * 5/6 to bypass 3+ save = 1.46 damage rolls
2 Smasha guns 4 shots * 0.41 to wound = 1.64 damage rolls
So against T7 it's already a wash even before accounting for saves, against T8 it's a difference of 1/10th of a damage roll before saves. And considering two guns are much harder to shut down than one, I would say the KMK is still the wrong choice every time.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/10 09:05:52
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2018/11/10 08:31:07
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Vineheart01 wrote: So i had my first game with the new buggies and gotta say ive drastically dropped my opinion of the boostablasta.
Its range and lack of proper melee (since it has decent stats but no ap, charging for the Spiked Ram is about all i'd do with it) makes it highly vulnerable. I think its gotta stick to evil sunz so they can Drive By alot, since being so close they will get charged.
I think i just got lucky with my dragsta because holy crap it mulched so many primaris! actually forced my opponent to divert his attention to it instead of my deffdread trio (win for me!)
Ugh that’s a shame he’s the first buggy I’m painting. And I only run painted models.
Luckily I run Evil Sunz though and I’m hoping his melee is more of a supplement for the ‘main’ T1 chargers rather than the deciding factor.
Did you run any big squads of bikes/other T1 threats with it?
Is anyone else thinking of positioning their Dragster out of LOS then banking on getting the shock tunnel off to move wherever with impunity? Should help it stay alive T1.
2018/11/10 09:31:11
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Vineheart01 wrote: So i had my first game with the new buggies and gotta say ive drastically dropped my opinion of the boostablasta.
Its range and lack of proper melee (since it has decent stats but no ap, charging for the Spiked Ram is about all i'd do with it) makes it highly vulnerable. I think its gotta stick to evil sunz so they can Drive By alot, since being so close they will get charged.
I think i just got lucky with my dragsta because holy crap it mulched so many primaris! actually forced my opponent to divert his attention to it instead of my deffdread trio (win for me!)
Ugh that’s a shame he’s the first buggy I’m painting. And I only run painted models.
Luckily I run Evil Sunz though and I’m hoping his melee is more of a supplement for the ‘main’ T1 chargers rather than the deciding factor.
Did you run any big squads of bikes/other T1 threats with it?
Is anyone else thinking of positioning their Dragster out of LOS then banking on getting the shock tunnel off to move wherever with impunity? Should help it stay alive T1.
I've run the KBB twice now (both in smaller games of 1k). The first time he did almost literally nothing, my dice were crazy cold and I got zero hits out of the rivet gun from 2 turns. The second game he did manage to mow down a hellblaster squad in a single turn and flame 2 or 3 scouts. After that he was shot to pieces obviously.
It's probably still 10-15 points overcosted I think, and I have no idea when I'd actually use the spiked ram since it really doesn't want to be in CC and I don't play Blood Axes. So unless you're dedicating a lot of units to the charge and those potential mortal wounds would simply mean that if they go through they kill the target outright. So effectively the opponent can't interrupt you because you want to start your combat elsewhere, other than that I don't know why it has a spiked ram really
2018/11/10 11:24:45
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
PiñaColada wrote: It's probably still 10-15 points overcosted I think, and I have no idea when I'd actually use the spiked ram since it really doesn't want to be in CC and I don't play Blood Axes. So unless you're dedicating a lot of units to the charge and those potential mortal wounds would simply mean that if they go through they kill the target outright. So effectively the opponent can't interrupt you because you want to start your combat elsewhere, other than that I don't know why it has a spiked ram really
This sounds about right.
Yea the only time I’d use his ram is if I thought I could kill the target with the MW or following fight phase. Or possibly to tie up a unit I don’t want to fire at me.
Obviously I’d be charging units that can’t effectively hurt the KBB in combat too.
mean green fightin machine 
~4100
~1660
go orks! I expected the trike to hit harder 
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
