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In my opinion, the KBB's job is to clear screens. With the charge, it's supposed to finish of tau warriors, guardsmen or scouts that have been hit by the rivet gun and the skorcha exhausts before.

Also to force units to fall back, bonking things like razorbacks, basilisks or shining spears simply shuts them off for a turn, no matter how much you kill.

 Jidmah wrote:
In my opinion, the KBB's job is to clear screens. With the charge, it's supposed to finish of tau warriors, guardsmen or scouts that have been hit by the rivet gun and the skorcha exhausts before.

Also to force units to fall back, bonking things like razorbacks, basilisks or shining spears simply shuts them off for a turn, no matter how much you kill.

I’m not sure I agree 100% on this. Surely the rivet gun is wasted on screens?

Also Shining Speara don’t care about falling back. They’ll fly right back into you after shooting you to bits to finish you off in combat.

Burna exhausts are definitely for screens though but I wonder if they’re supposed to be more of a charge deterrent than a real damage dealing thing? To put off those 10 guardsmen who want to shut your shooting down by bonking you with their lasguns. The rivet cannon is going into heavier infantry and light vehicles for me.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
In my opinion, the KBB's job is to clear screens. With the charge, it's supposed to finish of tau warriors, guardsmen or scouts that have been hit by the rivet gun and the skorcha exhausts before.

Also to force units to fall back, bonking things like razorbacks, basilisks or shining spears simply shuts them off for a turn, no matter how much you kill.

I’m not sure I agree 100% on this. Surely the rivet gun is wasted on screens?

Also Shining Speara don’t care about falling back. They’ll fly right back into you after shooting you to bits to finish you off in combat.

Burna exhausts are definitely for screens though but I wonder if they’re supposed to be more of a charge deterrent than a real damage dealing thing? To put off those 10 guardsmen who want to shut your shooting down by bonking you with their lasguns. The rivet cannon is going into heavier infantry and light vehicles for me.

Do the shining spear have some way to fall back and charge? Fly only allows shooting

tneva82 wrote:

Do the shining spear have some way to fall back and charge? Fly only allows shooting

I believe there's a craftworld that allows that. But honestly I'm wondering if they don't just kill it in your own combat phase, thus effectively just sacrificing your unit for nothing. Against a LR, stormsurge, land raider etc it's worth it but those opportunities are going to be rare.

EDIT: I found that, theoretically speaking, the rivet gun is pretty good against IG heavy weapon teams. Wounds on 2's, straight through their save and flat 2 damage kills a base per shot. Those things aren't points expensive generally speaking but the rule of three hard capped how many your opponent could bring so it's still a decent target if the rest of the IG stuff is T8 or just plain chaff

tneva82 wrote:


Do the shining spear have some way to fall back and charge? Fly only allows shooting

Lol are you serious?! I’ve been playing this wrong, with quite a few people, for this long?!?

Yeah, the only way you can fall back and charge is if there's a specific ability that allows it.

Ask your opponent what his Craftworld Trait is and if you can see the Shining Spear datasheet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Smasha guns also have that weird wounding thing where you have to exceed the targets toughness.
If I calculated it right, you have a 41% chance of wounding T8 and a 58% chance of wounding T7.

The KMK has a 50% chance of wounding T8 and a 66% chance of wounding T7.

You're right, I brainfarted for a moment and thought T7 was as high as it goes.

However, I believe that the extra 0.5 shots on average from 2 Smasha guns narrows the gap enough that with their extra point of AP it translates into more wounds even vs T7 or T8, as long as the target has a 3+ or better save and no invulnerable.

T8
KMK 3.5 shots * 1/2 to wound = 1.75 damage rolls
KMK 3.5 shots * 1/2 to wound * 5/6 to bypass 3+ save = 1.46 damage rolls
2 Smasha guns 4 shots * 0.41 to wound = 1.64 damage rolls

T7
KMK 3.5 * 2/3 = 2.33
KMK 3.5 * 2/3 * 5/6 to bypass 3+ save = 1.94
2 Smasha 4 * 0.58 = 2.32

So against T7 it's already a wash even before accounting for saves, against T8 it's a difference of 1/10th of a damage roll before saves. And considering two guns are much harder to shut down than one, I would say the KMK is still the wrong choice every time.

Well, 2 Smasha Guns are a little bit more than KMK, so I would imagine they can perform a little better.

Perhaps a good all comers ratio for a full Mek Gun battery would be 1 KMK + 3 Smasha + 2 Traktor.
2 Traktors have a good chance of 1 shotting or crippling most flyers
3 smashas can lay down some heavy anti-infantry fire and cripple light vehicles
The KMK is for whatever the Smashas are having trouble with. I would fire it last to try to finish off anything the smasha's couldn't kill.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Do the shining spear have some way to fall back and charge? Fly only allows shooting

Lol are you serious?! I’ve been playing this wrong, with quite a few people, for this long?!?

Yep there are ways to get it but ffr example i face mostly alaitoc for -1 to hit so those won#t be falling back and charging.

Could be strategem as well. Never been subject to fall back and charge spears so not sure what options they have. But just flying isn#t enough

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Perhaps a good all comers ratio for a full Mek Gun battery would be 1 KMK + 3 Smasha + 2 Traktor.
2 Traktors have a good chance of 1 shotting or crippling most flyers
3 smashas can lay down some heavy anti-infantry fire and cripple light vehicles
The KMK is for whatever the Smashas are having trouble with. I would fire it last to try to finish off anything the smasha's couldn't kill.

Statistically a Traktor kannon wounds on 3s against most flyers, so you have a 2/3rd chance to wound with each one, so the likelihood is less then 50% that both will wound. But if they do they do 3.5 damage on average so 7 damage, that will definitely hurt but it won't kill most flyers.

gungo wrote:

I think another star unit people need to look at are evil sun burna kommandos.

They have been upgraded with the codex.
Evilsun kommandos can finally reliably make a charge.
Still have decent saves (with cover).
But can still have 2 burnas for free (index) and now Tankbusta Bombs which pair well with burna range.
And still use that kommando BC nob you got from forgeworld upgrade set (index).
With the price increase on boyz kommandos are a no brainer to help supplement that turn 2 beta strike.

I am still wondering why people think Burna's are worth a damn? statistically they are about as good as a similar amount of points of choppa boyz in CC (at least before the nerf) Not saying Kommandos aren't worth taking, just that the Burna isn't anything special. 2 attacks hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s with -2 AP is not bad but 3 attacks hitting on 3s wounding on 4s with no AP is almost as good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
to put a finer point on the Burna question. They exemplify my opinion of what GW did with the Ork codex this edition. Nerf our good units (boyz) and then make our crap unit (burnas) slightly less crap so that they are almost as good as the nerfed unit. I consider this a net loss, especially since Burna's didn't even get a damage increase. So now instead of costing 140pts for a useless unit, its 120pts. Whoopee

I'm not an ork player. but I have always loved tank boyz, many mek gunz, lootaz, kommandos and a lot of gretchins. I don't own 1 normal orc boy etc These are the only unit I own (just cause liked the models). With some trucks and some characters I think viable army now.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Smasha guns also have that weird wounding thing where you have to exceed the targets toughness.
If I calculated it right, you have a 41% chance of wounding T8 and a 58% chance of wounding T7.

The KMK has a 50% chance of wounding T8 and a 66% chance of wounding T7.

You're right, I brainfarted for a moment and thought T7 was as high as it goes.

However, I believe that the extra 0.5 shots on average from 2 Smasha guns narrows the gap enough that with their extra point of AP it translates into more wounds even vs T7 or T8, as long as the target has a 3+ or better save and no invulnerable.

T8
KMK 3.5 shots * 1/2 to wound = 1.75 damage rolls
KMK 3.5 shots * 1/2 to wound * 5/6 to bypass 3+ save = 1.46 damage rolls
2 Smasha guns 4 shots * 0.41 to wound = 1.64 damage rolls

T7
KMK 3.5 * 2/3 = 2.33
KMK 3.5 * 2/3 * 5/6 to bypass 3+ save = 1.94
2 Smasha 4 * 0.58 = 2.32

So against T7 it's already a wash even before accounting for saves, against T8 it's a difference of 1/10th of a damage roll before saves. And considering two guns are much harder to shut down than one, I would say the KMK is still the wrong choice every time.

Math is correct but remember that Smasha Gunz have random Strength. Which means you may roll very poorly and have results that are way under the average. Average kicks in only with tons of dice, not with just a couple of Mek Gunz on the table.

20 Smasha Gunz are better than 10 KMKs, but with 4-6 of them I'm not sure if they're more reliable than 2-3 KMKs.

I'm only talking about how much damage they may cause, I'd take Smasha Gunz anyway because for the same cost of KMKs they have twice the wounds and IMHO durability is more useful than killyness with the new orks. .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

to put a finer point on the Burna question. They exemplify my opinion of what GW did with the Ork codex this edition. Nerf our good units (boyz) and then make our crap unit (burnas) slightly less crap so that they are almost as good as the nerfed unit. I consider this a net loss, especially since Burna's didn't even get a damage increase. So now instead of costing 140pts for a useless unit, its 120pts. Whoopee

Burnas simply need to have D6 autohits like any other proper flamer, period. With just D3 hits at 12ppm burnaboyz are not efficient as horde, which should be their role. Troops do it better, with also the advantage to fill troop slots.

 Blackie wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Smasha guns also have that weird wounding thing where you have to exceed the targets toughness.
If I calculated it right, you have a 41% chance of wounding T8 and a 58% chance of wounding T7.

The KMK has a 50% chance of wounding T8 and a 66% chance of wounding T7.

You're right, I brainfarted for a moment and thought T7 was as high as it goes.

However, I believe that the extra 0.5 shots on average from 2 Smasha guns narrows the gap enough that with their extra point of AP it translates into more wounds even vs T7 or T8, as long as the target has a 3+ or better save and no invulnerable.

T8
KMK 3.5 shots * 1/2 to wound = 1.75 damage rolls
KMK 3.5 shots * 1/2 to wound * 5/6 to bypass 3+ save = 1.46 damage rolls
2 Smasha guns 4 shots * 0.41 to wound = 1.64 damage rolls

T7
KMK 3.5 * 2/3 = 2.33
KMK 3.5 * 2/3 * 5/6 to bypass 3+ save = 1.94
2 Smasha 4 * 0.58 = 2.32

So against T7 it's already a wash even before accounting for saves, against T8 it's a difference of 1/10th of a damage roll before saves. And considering two guns are much harder to shut down than one, I would say the KMK is still the wrong choice every time.

Math is correct but remember that Smasha Gunz have random Strength. Which means you may roll very poorly and have results that are way under the average. Average kicks in only with tons of dice, not with just a couple of Mek Gunz on the table.

20 Smasha Gunz are better than 10 KMKs, but with 4-6 of them I'm not sure if they're more reliable than 2-3 KMKs.

I'm only talking about how much damage they may cause, I'd take Smasha Gunz anyway because for the same cost of KMKs they have twice the wounds and IMHO durability is more useful than killyness with the new orks. .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

to put a finer point on the Burna question. They exemplify my opinion of what GW did with the Ork codex this edition. Nerf our good units (boyz) and then make our crap unit (burnas) slightly less crap so that they are almost as good as the nerfed unit. I consider this a net loss, especially since Burna's didn't even get a damage increase. So now instead of costing 140pts for a useless unit, its 120pts. Whoopee

Burnas simply need to have D6 autohits like any other proper flamer, period. With just D3 hits at 12ppm burnaboyz are not efficient as horde, which should be their role. Troops do it better, with also the advantage to fill troop slots.

Smasha guns don#t have random s. If they did you would roll 2 times but you only roll once. What they do have is own to wound rules which changes odds depending on target T.

tbh im surprised the buggies dont have "fly" when it comes to charges since atleast 3 of them feel designed to charge, but not stay in melee.
Obviously they wouldnt actually have fly but something like "Driveby Taktics" or so where they can fall back and still shoot. KBB is probably the weakest at actually melee'ing but it has that ram and is still 4 S5 attacks hitting on 4s, which isnt bad at all but not really great either. I really wish i could fall back with it and shoot, but i play Bad Moonz (hence why i probably felt like he was wasted since the bulk of his power is autohit). What was it, Bloodaxes can fall back and shoot universally? Probably not worth it lol

First buggy i painted was the deffkilla and yeah no surprise how great he was lol.

Agree on KBB. It would actually benefit from the shock jump dragsta's melee weapon. I was very confused when I saw it had the MW ram, but no CC weapon. Yet the shock dragsta (which you never want in combat), does have a CC weapon. Bit confusing there.

So far the shokk dragsta has been an unbelievable performer in all my games (that and the smasha guns), while the trike boss and KBB have been pretty medicore. The trike boss is a far third behind zhardsnark and the index bike boss with killa klaw. Really just take him if you need the advance aura, but you can get stuff into CC without him pretty easily now.

I haven't tried the rokkit buggy yet, but it looks pretty solid as an all around threat platform. (still slightly points expensive, but hey, all the buggies are).

I'm currently working on a master smorgsmaboard list that looks something like this.



Alt list drops trukk boyz, one unit of grots, and tankbustas for 27 boyz + nob. (to da jump)

 greggles wrote:
Agree on KBB. It would actually benefit from the shock jump dragsta's melee weapon. I was very confused when I saw it had the MW ram, but no CC weapon. Yet the shock dragsta (which you never want in combat), does have a CC weapon. Bit confusing there.

So far the shokk dragsta has been an unbelievable performer in all my games (that and the smasha guns), while the trike boss and KBB have been pretty medicore. The trike boss is a far third behind zhardsnark and the index bike boss with killa klaw. Really just take him if you need the advance aura, but you can get stuff into CC without him pretty easily now.

I haven't tried the rokkit buggy yet, but it looks pretty solid as an all around threat platform. (still slightly points expensive, but hey, all the buggies are).

I'm currently working on a master smorgsmaboard list that looks something like this.

Spoiler:

Alt list drops trukk boyz, one unit of grots, and tankbustas for 27 boyz + nob. (to da jump)

I like that list, the dual KMB big mek is pretty badass, especially as deathskulls. Why put a killkannon on the bonebreaka though? Since I play Evil Sunz I've put 4x big shootas on it and that has worked out okay, your list also seems surprisingly light on anti horde (something I imagine a lot of Ork lists might become post codex, including mine)

Also, small note.. Why is it written as a Megatrukk skrapjet? I've seen this in several places,the name in the codex is Megatrakk

Hey Pina,
It is just a list from Battlescribe. Probably a bug. Agree on the lesser horde. I guess I put a kill kannon on the bone breaka so it would have something to fire off. Trying to make sure everything has a gun, so can utilize the death skulls rerolls..

I do think I'm going to drop the tankbusta unit, trukk, and one grot unit and swap for 28 boyz (with nob) to use as anti chaff, da jump distraction. I think I have enough anti tank across the board and agree with your comments.

I could also drop the 10 nobz for 4 mega nobz, don't know if that is worth the swap would mean less models to paint).

Thanks for your comments, appreciate the feedback.

I know some people are recommending max units of warbikers, because the -1 to hit and/or other strats are pretty decent on them then but I personally have found a decent amount of success with 3man bike squads. Either super cheap, with dual choppas on the nob or with a bit of extra punch with the other CC weapons.

Since you have an Index warboss on bike in the list they would still be able to advance and charge, right? So I'd maybe try and sprinkle in some bikes as I've found them to be excellent chaff clearers and harassers. Obviously they still die pretty quick but they bring a lot of utility

hmm, so I played 3 games in a friendly tournament at my local today, playing my first games with the new codex...my list probably wasn't particularly competitive, as it was basically what I had ready that passed for deathskulls...


Game 1 of 3: vs tyranids


Game 2: vs custodes/knight


Game 3: vs world eaters


so, I went 1-2 overall...and the 1 was against a noob, but...I did kill a knight in the first turn?...gotta say though, dakkadakkadakka, and the deathskulls reroll 1 hit/wound/damage per unit whenever it shoots/fights...they are bloody nice, got me a definitely noticeable amount of hits/wounds that I otherwise wouldn't...I've definitely gotta get a lot more games in though, try out some different stuff, and get less rusty at playing in general...but yeah, playing orks now definitely feels better than playing with the index, definitely

Nice tip! Thanks. Will work on the list some more.

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Do the shining spear have some way to fall back and charge? Fly only allows shooting

Lol are you serious?! I’ve been playing this wrong, with quite a few people, for this long?!?

Yep there are ways to get it but ffr example i face mostly alaitoc for -1 to hit so those won#t be falling back and charging.

Could be strategem as well. Never been subject to fall back and charge spears so not sure what options they have. But just flying isn#t enough

It's a stratagem called Feigned Retreat, for 2 CP they can retreat and shoot/charge. That said, charging spears is not a bad idea, they wound on 6+ if they don't charge and Aeldar don't swim in CP.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
In my opinion, the KBB's job is to clear screens. With the charge, it's supposed to finish of tau warriors, guardsmen or scouts that have been hit by the rivet gun and the skorcha exhausts before.

Also to force units to fall back, bonking things like razorbacks, basilisks or shining spears simply shuts them off for a turn, no matter how much you kill.

I’m not sure I agree 100% on this. Surely the rivet gun is wasted on screens?

Eh, what else are you going to shoot with it? Just because it's D2 doesn't make it great at killing vehicles (wound on 4+, 5+ armor), especially not those from armies that can screen well. I'd much rather make sure that the things that actually hurt vehicles can get their charges off. Of course, if you can get in range of some helblasters...
In general, S6/7 AP-2 and D2 is awesome at clearing screens since it wounds most screens on 2+, ignores their armor and makes any FNP they might have useless.
Of course, you use warbikers for this task, who might actually be the better choice.

Also Shining Speara don’t care about falling back. They’ll fly right back into you after shooting you to bits to finish you off in combat.

That's a stratagem which costs 2 CP though, they will not be able to do that indefinitely and not on multiple units. You can probably even make them eat burna overwatch by forcing them to re-charge from within 8". It's also not like they don't shoot and charge you if you don't get into combat with them.

Burna exhausts are definitely for screens though but I wonder if they’re supposed to be more of a charge deterrent than a real damage dealing thing? To put off those 10 guardsmen who want to shut your shooting down by bonking you with their lasguns. The rivet cannon is going into heavier infantry and light vehicles for me.

I don't think the rivet gun is powerful enough for someone to bother shutting it down. It's still hitting on 5's. When you drive into 6" range, you can do the 4d3 burna hits, shoot the grot blasta and throw a stikkbomb and then charge to finish of the one or two guardsmen/fire warriors/guardians that managed to survive. Also note that the MW from the spiked ram are resolved before other nearby units do their charges.

Of course, by the same logic, nothing prevents you from just shooting the rivet gun at more juicy targets than the screen you are trying to clear.

SemperMortis wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Perhaps a good all comers ratio for a full Mek Gun battery would be 1 KMK + 3 Smasha + 2 Traktor.
2 Traktors have a good chance of 1 shotting or crippling most flyers
3 smashas can lay down some heavy anti-infantry fire and cripple light vehicles
The KMK is for whatever the Smashas are having trouble with. I would fire it last to try to finish off anything the smasha's couldn't kill.

Statistically a Traktor kannon wounds on 3s against most flyers, so you have a 2/3rd chance to wound with each one, so the likelihood is less then 50% that both will wound. But if they do they do 3.5 damage on average so 7 damage, that will definitely hurt but it won't kill most flyers.

gungo wrote:

I think another star unit people need to look at are evil sun burna kommandos.

They have been upgraded with the codex.
Evilsun kommandos can finally reliably make a charge.
Still have decent saves (with cover).
But can still have 2 burnas for free (index) and now Tankbusta Bombs which pair well with burna range.
And still use that kommando BC nob you got from forgeworld upgrade set (index).
With the price increase on boyz kommandos are a no brainer to help supplement that turn 2 beta strike.

I am still wondering why people think Burna's are worth a damn? statistically they are about as good as a similar amount of points of choppa boyz in CC (at least before the nerf) Not saying Kommandos aren't worth taking, just that the Burna isn't anything special. 2 attacks hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s with -2 AP is not bad but 3 attacks hitting on 3s wounding on 4s with no AP is almost as good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
to put a finer point on the Burna question. They exemplify my opinion of what GW did with the Ork codex this edition. Nerf our good units (boyz) and then make our crap unit (burnas) slightly less crap so that they are almost as good as the nerfed unit. I consider this a net loss, especially since Burna's didn't even get a damage increase. So now instead of costing 140pts for a useless unit, its 120pts. Whoopee

Even as you say burnas are just as good as choppas as boyz which isn’t correct. They are substantially better in overwatch and NOW are more efficient becuase they pair well with tankbusta bomb range. You still come out ahead on kommandos which only cost 8ppm and burnas are free. For 1ppm over a boy they are a freakin deal.
Once you add in the fact they deepstrike +9in away, they gain +1 to wound rolls in melee, auto hit at range, and gain+2 to cover saves...but honestly I’m using burnas on my kommandos becuase I want to back up my beta strike with cheap deepstriking units that have even more -2+ap attacks. The actual burna firing range and overwatch protection are a bonus.

gungo wrote:


Even as you say burnas are just as good as choppas as boyz which isn’t correct. They are substantially better in overwatch and NOW are more efficient becuase they pair well with tankbusta bomb range. You still come out ahead on kommandos which only cost 8ppm and burnas are free. For 1ppm over a boy they are a freakin deal.

Burna's on Kommandos are ok, ive used them extensively in my games and the best I can say about them is that they are worth the price....since they are free. If you made them pay for those Burna's...yeah no.

The problem I have with them on Kommandos is my Kommandos are turn 2 charging so they don't even get to shoot in the shooting phase for the first 2-3 turns because they are either out of range or tied up in CC. In CC a Burna Kommando gets 2 attacks for 1.3 hits and .67 wounds which the average Marine still gets a 5+ save on so .44 Dead Marines, the average Kommando gets 3 attacks for 2 hits, 1 wound and .33 Dead Marines. So yeah I said Choppa kommandos were almost as good and I said that "PRE NERF" Burna boyz were about as good as a similar amount of Choppa Boyz. So even after the nerf you can have 3 Burna boyz for 36pts and 5 Choppa Boyz for 35pts. 5 choppa boyz get 15 attacks, 10 hits, 5 wounds and 1.66 dead Marines, 3 Burna boyz get 6 attacks, 4 hits, 2 wounds and 1.33 dead Marines. Pre nerf it was 3 Burna boyz vs 7 Choppa Boyz and the math was even more lopsided in favor of choppa boyz.

I do agree that they are good for overwatch, I just haven't had a chance to use them in that context because nobody wants to charge me and get stuck in with my entire army breathing down their necks turn 2-3. YMMV but I take them ONLY on my kommandos because they are free.

SemperMortis wrote:

gungo wrote:


Even as you say burnas are just as good as choppas as boyz which isn’t correct. They are substantially better in overwatch and NOW are more efficient becuase they pair well with tankbusta bomb range. You still come out ahead on kommandos which only cost 8ppm and burnas are free. For 1ppm over a boy they are a freakin deal.

Burna's on Kommandos are ok, ive used them extensively in my games and the best I can say about them is that they are worth the price....since they are free. If you made them pay for those Burna's...yeah no.

The problem I have with them on Kommandos is my Kommandos are turn 2 charging so they don't even get to shoot in the shooting phase for the first 2-3 turns because they are either out of range or tied up in CC. In CC a Burna Kommando gets 2 attacks for 1.3 hits and .67 wounds which the average Marine still gets a 5+ save on so .44 Dead Marines, the average Kommando gets 3 attacks for 2 hits, 1 wound and .33 Dead Marines. So yeah I said Choppa kommandos were almost as good and I said that "PRE NERF" Burna boyz were about as good as a similar amount of Choppa Boyz. So even after the nerf you can have 3 Burna boyz for 36pts and 5 Choppa Boyz for 35pts. 5 choppa boyz get 15 attacks, 10 hits, 5 wounds and 1.66 dead Marines, 3 Burna boyz get 6 attacks, 4 hits, 2 wounds and 1.33 dead Marines. Pre nerf it was 3 Burna boyz vs 7 Choppa Boyz and the math was even more lopsided in favor of choppa boyz.

I do agree that they are good for overwatch, I just haven't had a chance to use them in that context because nobody wants to charge me and get stuck in with my entire army breathing down their necks turn 2-3. YMMV but I take them ONLY on my kommandos because they are free.

First off last edition you were a turn 2-3 charge that wasn’t very reliable after the codex as evil suns you have a very good chance to make it the turn 2 charge immediately after you drop.
Secondly don’t throw numbers and try to skew the values by not being fair (kommandos get +1 wound in melee on terrain) Kommandos are 8ppm boyz are 7ppm. You can get 5 kommandos (3 choppas and 2 burnas) for 40pts and 5 boys for 35pts. You will kill 1.66 marines with 5 boys and 1.88 marines (even without the +1 wound it’s still better) however with the +1 wound you killl 2.52 marines. That’s nearly double the value on marines not including the free deepstrike or plus cover save. This is without command points or psychic powers to make them work.

But the real question is why did I put kommandos w burnas in my list not only are they a great value. They are one of the few units able to charge and flush out squads in ruins that bikes, dreads, etc can’t charge.. dropping 2 MSU kommando units (maybe I combine squad them to they survive overwatch) I’m able to charge scouts/devastators or whatever in ruins and clear them out. That’s why I use kommandos because point for point they are still better then boyz.

How are people feeling about the trike? People who have used it in game? I've picked one up due to the hype, but honestly wondering whether to drop it now.

mrtomski wrote:
How are people feeling about the trike? People who have used it in game? I've picked one up due to the hype, but honestly wondering whether to drop it now.

I was on the fence about it due to it not having customizable weapon options. God knows why they did it this way. If it was just a boss on a bike im sure everyone would have been happier.

Im warming up to it now as a potentail smshboss platform. With dethskulls, the brutal warlord trait, and fists of gork it is pretty beast.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
In my opinion, the KBB's job is to clear screens. With the charge, it's supposed to finish of tau warriors, guardsmen or scouts that have been hit by the rivet gun and the skorcha exhausts before.

Also to force units to fall back, bonking things like razorbacks, basilisks or shining spears simply shuts them off for a turn, no matter how much you kill.

I’m not sure I agree 100% on this. Surely the rivet gun is wasted on screens?

Also Shining Speara don’t care about falling back. They’ll fly right back into you after shooting you to bits to finish you off in combat.

Burna exhausts are definitely for screens though but I wonder if they’re supposed to be more of a charge deterrent than a real damage dealing thing? To put off those 10 guardsmen who want to shut your shooting down by bonking you with their lasguns. The rivet cannon is going into heavier infantry and light vehicles for me.

Yeah, Rivet Kannon is S7 AP-2 D2 so it's a TEQ/Primaris/light vehicle hunter. Burna is anti-GEQ and it'll even bring some pain to MEQ. Also, the thing is pretty fast so it's entirely possible to get into flamer range for some roasting in the shooting phase. You can even burn a CP on the Evil Sunz stratagem to GTFO again if need be.

 Dr.Duck wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
How are people feeling about the trike? People who have used it in game? I've picked one up due to the hype, but honestly wondering whether to drop it now.

I was on the fence about it due to it not having customizable weapon options. God knows why they did it this way. If it was just a boss on a bike im sure everyone would have been happier.

Im warming up to it now as a potentail smshboss platform. With dethskulls, the brutal warlord trait, and fists of gork it is pretty beast.

Why deth skulls? If he has brutal but kunning he already reroll" hits and wounds.

The terrain bonus is hit or miss because I have yet to be able to use it in that context. I don't know how often it can be used because the units I want to flush out of cover are usually being protected by a screening unit which defeats the entire purpose. But you are right that does factor in. But I am not disagreeing with you. I take Kommandos MSU because you just can't beat the value of 40pts for 5 models with deep strike and 2 free burnas and a free Nob upgrade

By turn 2 I’ve already cleared or engaged screens.
Turn 1 warpath and da jump 35boyz engage and clear the screen..
Bike star takes out biggest target...
Turn 2
War path da jump 25more boyz clear our whatever screen still survives
Teleport 2x klaw dreads and 2x MSU kommandos
Klaw dreads take out another tough target (hopefully backed up by the meka dread)
Kommandos take out ruin campers because that what they excel at....
I don’t know about you but ruin campers (dev squads, scouts, snipers) are really popular and competitive since you can’t engage them with most monstrous creatures or vehicles...

Has anyone run a Bad Moons Warboss with the 4++? How did it work out, was it worth it?