CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.

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**mhalko1**

Just finished my first game with the new dex. It was only 1k points. I was evil sunz. I Lost a minor victory on the relic mission. I had a 9 wound gork left and he had a 4 wound flyrant.

I had a smasha gun that was rolling poorly. I had more 1s for my shots roll and not 1 single to wound roll was made. Rolling that 7+ is harder than it is mathhammered. My bun bonebreaka dod jack squat. 4 wounds to a carnifex. Most of my points were made back from the gorkanaut tellyportaing in. Still failed two charges this game. He killed a stonecrusher carnifex, a regular one. Wiped a unit of gaunts and a unit of genestealers. Did a couple more wounds to the flyrant.

My deffkilla was alright. Burned the majority of the 2nd genestealer unit and almost solod a carnifex, before dying.

Weirdboy didnt do hardly anything.

I think as excited to see how well the gork did even tho some of my opponents rolls failed miserably allowing him to survive. Kinda balanced out my tereible rolls. I think for part of the ork strategy discussions we need to math hammer the unit options for what happens when dice rolls are average, or below.

I think the traktor kannon would have served me better.

**An Actual Englishman**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, the only way you can fall back and charge is if there's a specific ability that allows it.

tneva82 wrote:

Yep there are ways to get it but ffr example i face mostly alaitoc for -1 to hit so those won#t be falling back and charging.

Could be strategem as well. Never been subject to fall back and charge spears so not sure what options they have. But just flying isn#t enough

Lol I thought it cost them nothing. That flying units could fall back and charge at no expense. Poor rule reading on my part.

Jidmah 766225 10225162
41c86c07f1ce6ec02d07db77ab9ac1d0.png wrote:
Eh, what else are you going to shoot with it? Just because it's D2 doesn't make it great at killing vehicles (wound on 4+, 5+ armor), especially not those from armies that can screen well. I'd much rather make sure that the things that actually hurt vehicles can get their charges off. Of course, if you can get in range of some helblasters...
In general, S6/7 AP-2 and D2 is awesome at clearing screens since it wounds most screens on 2+, ignores their armor and makes any FNP they might have useless.
Of course, you use warbikers for this task, who might actually be the better choice.

Exactly dude. I got a screen clearing unit in 12 bikes. I need AA though. Rivet cannon is weak but AA for me?

That's a stratagem which costs 2 CP though, they will not be able to do that indefinitely and not on multiple units. You can probably even make them eat burna overwatch by forcing them to re-charge from within 8". It's also not like they don't shoot and charge you if you don't get into combat with them.

See my incorrect reading of fly rule above.

I don't think the rivet gun is powerful enough for someone to bother shutting it down. It's still hitting on 5's. When you drive into 6" range, you can do the 4d3 burna hits, shoot the grot blasta and throw a stikkbomb and then charge to finish of the one or two guardsmen/fire warriors/guardians that managed to survive. Also note that the MW from the spiked ram are resolved before other nearby units do their charges.

True but not really what I'm looking for in my list.

Of course, by the same logic, nothing prevents you from just shooting the rivet gun at more juicy targets than the screen you are trying to clear.

True and what I'm thinking.

**Dr.Duck**

tneva82 wrote:
Dr.Duck wrote:
mrtomski wrote:
How are people feeling about the trike? People who have used it in game? I've picked one up due to the hype, but honestly wondering whether to drop it now.

I was on the fence about it due to it not having customizable weapon options. God knows why they did it this way. If it was just a boss on a bike im sure everyone would have been happier.

Im warming up to it now as a potentail smshboss platform. With dethskulls, the brutal warlord trait, and fists of gork it is pretty beast.

Why deth skulls? If he has brutal but kunning he already reroll" hits and wounds.

For PK users rerolling that one POS 1 that you roll when rolling for damage is pretty sweet. Other than that ya I guess hes already got rerolls to wound and hits.

Was just saying deffskullz due to my current list build, but rerolling dice for combat damage and those two melta shots I think is enough to merit.

**tag8833**

Had a game today against Knights.
Lancer
Atrapos
Warden
Gallant
Helverin

I was running:

Spoiler:

I'm batrepping this just to illustrate how easily Orks can deal with knights.

Spoiler:

Knight player hadn't played his list before and it showed. I had to keep help him with Strategems.

I went 1st, and the game was essentially decided. I Mobbed up my boyz, and jumped them to build a giant wall for all of the knights, so that none of them could move more than 9" Weiboyz smited a few wounds off the Atrapos. Then my Tankbustas killed the Lancer. When the lancer died, my opponent was so demoralized. My lootas, and other shooting took the helverin down to 4. I gave him a little pep talk, to not give up before he had a turn.

All his knights moved up to my wall of boyz. He shot most everything into my trukks and only killed 1, then charged the Atrapos, Gallant, and Warden. The Deathskulls 6++ saved a good number boys. I think he only ended up killing 15 of my 40. I popped the wrecker strategem and swung back, and he rotated ion shields on his Atrapos because that is where my PK's were. I didn't use my Deathskulls rerolls because he was so demoralized. so I ended up sticking 3 power klaw wounds, but rolled 1's for all the damage and didn't reroll, because I didn't want to risk killing the Atrapos. At the end of combat I still had the Warden and Atrapos tied up, but the Gallant was free.

My Warboss ran forward to charge the Warden. My Tankbustas shot at the Gallant (not double shooting), but despite that, they took it down to 1. Lootas finished the Helverin. I just skipped shooting a bunch of stuff. Warboss charged the warden, and I pretended that I didn't have a relic, and didn't use my Deathskulls rerolls So I only did 5 wounds to it. Then my Boyz swung, and I didn't use strats or my Deffskulls rerolls, but despite that I took the Atrapos down to 5 or 6. He swung back and killed my warboss.

So he popped the strat for his Atrapos to act normal. Atrapos and Warden moved to kill the Tankbustas which they did. Gallant moved up to engage the boyz, but didn't kill many, fortunately I was able to take the casualties that were engaged with him, so the boyz were disengaged.

On my turn a weirdboy perils himself to death, and took a couple wounds off both the warden and the atrapos as well as a bunch of my stuff. At that point my Gorkanaut shot the Atrapo to death. Weird. OK. My lootas finished the Gallant, and I shot the boyz at the Warden and did 6 wounds with Tankbusta bombs then charged my boyz into the Warden finishing it.

Tabled at the top of 3. I still had a bunch of CP at the end of the game.

Deathskulls are so good against knights. As are Tankbustas. He was so salty that I was able to kill his lancer with 2 units of Tankbustas. (one unit shot twice). I had too many threats for him to deal with. He never even shot my lootas, which were ready with their grot shields. My Nobz never disembarked from the Gorkanaut. The Gorkanaut never charged. There was essentially no way he could win the game once I created my boy wall, and neutralized his knights for a turn. Honestly, I'm not even sure he had a chance before that. My list just had too many threats for him to deal with.

**Vineheart01**

Yeah both my games with the new dex have ended by turn3 so kinda hard to judge anything. Funny part is i was doing more of a joke list....14 vehicles in a 2k list (3 dreads, 6 kanz, 1 mork, 1 deffkilla, 1 KBB, 1Scrapjet, and 1 Dragsta). By all rights that list should get mulched but Bad Moonz + DDD luck ftw.

Nothing more satisfying than having a Mork pump out enough damage to 1shot that new marine skimmer tank thing (keep forgetting what that is called). As in, IT oneshotted it on its own lol.

Im in love with KustomMega weapons now that theyre D6 damage and i can reroll 1s hehe

**Jidmah**

Pandabeer wrote:
Yeah, Rivet Kannon is S7 AP-2 D2 so it's a TEQ/Primaris/light vehicle hunter.

You might want to do the math on that bold statement.

To save you the trouble - it's not. Yes, killing a single high cost marine with the rivet kannon is awesome, but you are only wounding those things on threes and -2 AP means that they still get decent saves against it. It's a completely different league than overcharged plasma.

As I said, if you can plonk a helblaster, go for it, but you should definitely shoot a screening scout or guardsman over some intercessor sitting in a terrain piece. The screen being gone will do much more for to further your game plan than counting points killed.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

An Actual Englishman wrote:

Jidmah 766225 10225162
41c86c07f1ce6ec02d07db77ab9ac1d0.png wrote:
Eh, what else are you going to shoot with it? Just because it's D2 doesn't make it great at killing vehicles (wound on 4+, 5+ armor), especially not those from armies that can screen well. I'd much rather make sure that the things that actually hurt vehicles can get their charges off. Of course, if you can get in range of some helblasters...
In general, S6/7 AP-2 and D2 is awesome at clearing screens since it wounds most screens on 2+, ignores their armor and makes any FNP they might have useless.
Of course, you use warbikers for this task, who might actually be the better choice.

Exactly dude. I got a screen clearing unit in 12 bikes. I need AA though. Rivet cannon is weak but AA for me?

Math-wise it's not an anti-tank gun unless you get really lucky. If you already have a model, I would use it as a wingman for your bikes, block charges and areas from enemy units and eat overwatch for them.

If you are looking for anti-tank buggies, scrapjet and shokkjump dagsta are the speed freaks you're looking for.

**koooaei**

What's the ztate of new buggies? Are all of rhem overpriced? Can any of them be useful in a footslogging list? Are they good enough in a mech list over more wagons/trukks with orks?

**Blackie**

mrtomski wrote:
How are people feeling about the trike? People who have used it in game? I've picked one up due to the hype, but honestly wondering whether to drop it now.

IMHO it's very overrated. 120 points and you don't have solid shooting while in combat it's significantly worse than a standard warboss. It's just mobile, that's its only quality, the only fast HQ included in the codex. It also needs the trait that gives it the warboss aura or you're forced to include a warboss. I prefer embarking footslogging warbosses in transports than taking the deffkilla wartrike. Maybe in a list with 3x bonebreakas and some of the new buggies, especially those ones that have come punch in combat, he would be a great HQ. But I've tried 3x bonebreakas without him and I didn't miss the wartrike.

As long as Biker Boss or Zhadsnark are allowed take one of those instead of the wartrike.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

koooaei wrote:
What's the ztate of new buggies? Are all of rhem overpriced? Can any of them be useful in a footslogging list? Are they good enough in a mech list over more wagons/trukks with orks?

Yes they are a bit. However in a list with solid armored stuff, 2-3 of the best ones could do very well. Dragastas and Scrapjets only, the other ones are bland. They may be useful in a footslogging list but only if you field lots of them, 6+ at least, probably with also several mek gunz to attract heavy firepower. Otherwise they won't last a turn.

**An Actual Englishman**

Jidmah 766225 10225162
41c86c07f1ce6ec02d07db77ab9ac1d0.png wrote:
Math-wise it's not an anti-tank gun unless you get really lucky. If you already have a model, I would use it as a wingman for your bikes, block charges and areas from enemy units and eat overwatch for them.

If you are looking for anti-tank buggies, scrapjet and shokkjump dagsta are the speed freaks you're looking for.

Yea I got 1 of each excluding the Squig buggy. He's just too bad to warrant in a game. At 140 pts he's encroaching on Deff Rola battlewagon cost which is insanity to me.

I'm just trying to find the right use for each Buggy. Scrap jet and Dragster are obviously our primary anti tank buggies. One is more maneuverable but less survivable and probably slightly less damaging than the other.

Trikeboss is buffing character with some limited Anti-tank potential if I'm willing to burn a trait on him. His role is to ensure T1 charge and start overwhelming the enemy with threats for me.

Snazzwagon is our dedicated Anti-horde/chaff/screen clearer. Might be some shenanigan uses for those Molotov's that I haven't thought of yet, like denying Rangers/Scouts cover save? He'll be moving up with bikes and boss turn one to help clear screen and he'll be getting as close as possible to the enemy to try and blow up in their face.

Then we have KBB who I think lacks focus. His Burna exhausts are great Anti-screen. His rivet cannon is too few shots for me to be decent anti screen and Str 7 -2 AP 2D is an odd profile. I see it as useful for light vehicles like bikes, vypers, DE vehicles, sentinels etc. I guess the forward units that act as preliminary screens but aren't infantry? The spiked ram is an odd choice too. Perhaps useful to finish chaff or try and put a dent in a vehicle you want to shut down.

In terms of general use in an army I think the buggies suit my relatively mechanised force. Overload the enemy with T5 and T6 threats early game so the effectiveness of their shooting is diminished. Initiate combat on your terms and the opponent will feel on the back foot from the get-go regardless of their performance.

**Jidmah**

You need to look at the whole package, you are too hung up on the one gun wounding vehicles on 3+. Let's do the math for guardsmen in cover:

KBB
Burna exhausts are 4d3 hits, wound 5.33, kills 2.66
Rivet gun is 2 hits, wounds 1.66, kills 1.38
Stikkbomb is 1.16 hits, wounds .58, kills .29
Grot blasta hits .5, wounds .33, kill .16
Ram is 1 additional casualty
Combat hit 2, wound 1.33, kill .88
Total: 6.37

Snazzwagon
Big shoota is 1.5 hits, wound 1, kills 0.5
Mek Speshul is 3 hits, wounds 2, kills 1.66
Burna bottles are 2.33 hits, wounds 1.55, kills 1.04
Grot blasta is hits .5, wounds .25, kill .13
Combat hit 2, wound 1.33, kill .88
Total: 4.11

As you can see, the rivet gun is better at clearing guardsmen in cover than those burna bottles are, and the mek speshul can't take on the burna exhausts. KBB is the buggy you want to have clearing screens.

Edit: Fixed combat performance for snazzwagon.

**PiñaColada**

You also want to consider that it's pretty likely that you advanced the buggy T1 to be able to reach with those burna exhausts. So the stikkbomb and grot blastas aren't an option. No big deal really, but that would mean that the burna bottles or that grot blasta aren't options either..

The snazzwagon really should in my opinion be either;
4+ to hit with the mek speshul as well
12 shots with the mek speshul
The mek speshul being S6 or AP-3
15 points cheaper
Or the burna bottles being lobbed through something making them assault

By the way, we're assuming that the grot blasta being S4 on the KBB is a mistake right?

Edit: Also, Jidmah, why are the two buggies different in close combat? They should be the same, no?

**Jidmah**

oops, copy&past error. I gave the guardsmen 4+ armor against melee and then fixed it for one, but not the other.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
By the way, we're assuming that the grot blasta being S4 on the KBB is a mistake right?

Probably, but until errata is here, I'll just play it as written.

**CaffeineIsGood**

I really want someone to tell me the Snazzwagon works, it looks so cool.

Is the -1 to be hit not worth anything? it seems like that favours its role as a shooter, for example; it doesn't feel as much need to charge into an opponent to gain immunity in its shooting phase, losing its shooting phase next turn. And it can stack with Billowing-Exhaust for -2 to hit.

Currently I'm not sold with the buggies, I just can't fit them into any list, they just seem a bit meh compared to having some stormboyz or bikers even, does anyone prefer them to the other fast-attack options?

Also on another topic, where does the big(little)-squiggoth, stand compared to the Gorkanaut? I'm thinking it might be good to deepstrike a squiggoth with nobz or mega-nobz

**PiñaColada**

CaffeineIsGood wrote:
I really want someone to tell me the Snazzwagon works, it looks so cool.

Is the -1 to be hit not worth anything? it seems like that favours its role as a shooter, for example; it doesn't feel as much need to charge into an opponent to gain immunity in its shooting phase, losing its shooting phase next turn. And it can stack with Billowing-Exhaust for -2 to hit.

Currently I'm not sold with the buggies, I just can't fit them into any list, they just seem a bit meh compared to having some stormboyz or bikers even, does anyone prefer them to the other fast-attack options?

Also on another topic, where does the big(little)-squiggoth, stand compared to the Gorkanaut? I'm thinking it might be good to deepstrike a squiggoth with nobz or mega-nobz

I don't think the snazzwagon is bad, it's just fixed between warbikers and dakkajets in role and both of those units do it better IMO. The -1 to hit is nice obviously, but stacking it with the stratagem has to be considered super niche since you don't do it when fired upon but rather in your movement phase. So unless a game winning move is tied to it surviving and taking an objective/linebreaker I doubt that you'll see much use of that stratagem on it.
The model is fantastic though, so I imagine quite a few of us bought one just for that.

**Jidmah**

The only real application I see is driving them into powerful opponents on purpose and then re-roll the dice to see if they blow up. Strictly better than squig mines, if anything. You could also try tri-pointing knights with them, as they are pain in the rear to get rid of with their -1 to hit.

A trukk with shoota boyz probably does everything the snazzwagon does better while providing CP.

**An Actual Englishman**

Jidmah wrote:
You need to look at the whole package, you are too hung up on the one gun wounding vehicles on 3+. Let's do the math for guardsmen in cover:

KBB
Burna exhausts are 4d3 hits, wound 5.33, kills 2.66
Rivet gun is 2 hits, wounds 1.66, kills 1.38
Stikkbomb is 1.16 hits, wounds .58, kills .29
Grot blasta hits .5, wounds .33, kill .16
Ram is 1 additional casualty
Combat hit 2, wound 1.33, kill .88
Total: 6.37

Snazzwagon
Big shoota is 1.5 hits, wound 1, kills 0.5
Mek Speshul is 3 hits, wounds 2, kills 1.66
Burna bottles are 2.33 hits, wounds 1.55, kills 1.04
Grot blasta is hits .5, wounds .25, kill .13
Combat hit 2, wound 1.33, kill .88
Total: 4.11

As you can see, the rivet gun is better at clearing guardsmen in cover than those burna bottles are, and the mek speshul can't take on the burna exhausts. KBB is the buggy you want to have clearing screens.

Edit: Fixed combat performance for snazzwagon.

There's a few other things to consider too.

If Guardsmen are in cover its unlikely you're making a charge into them at all. They'll hole up in buildings and take casualties from the GF as required.

The range of the Mek Speshul and Big Shootas far exceeds the Burna exhausts. So the Snazzwagon doesn't have to be in charge range to fire its anti infantry weapons and it can target a broader number of units. I don't like the idea of having to be within 8" to use my most potent horde clearing tool because without using Evil Sunz shenanigans I'm going to have to charge or I get charged. Then without wiping the unit that I'm engaged with I can't fire my weapons again and lose efficiency.

I think you guys misunderstand me. I know they aren't particularly competitive choices. But the models are gorgeous and I'm going to paint them beautifully. I know I'll be using all of them regardless of their credibility as a potent threat so I might as well figure out how to get the most out of them. Which is what I'm trying to do more than anything.

**Vineheart01**

guardsmen? cover?
With how cover works in 8 how the gak does a unit with more than 10 bodies ever get cover?
which is part of the reason i think the snazz is overpriced, putting too much value in that ignore cover in a game where cover is either not a thing or its negated by high enough AP anyway.

**An Actual Englishman**

Vineheart01 wrote:
guardsmen? cover?
With how cover works in 8 how the gak does a unit with more than 10 bodies ever get cover?
which is part of the reason i think the snazz is overpriced, putting too much value in that ignore cover in a game where cover is either not a thing or its negated by high enough AP anyway.

The most common configuration of Guardsmen is 3 units of ten....

The only time they're not in cover is when they're being used as a screen which is pretty frequent too, to be fair.

**Jidmah**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
You need to look at the whole package, you are too hung up on the one gun wounding vehicles on 3+. Let's do the math for guardsmen in cover:

KBB
Burna exhausts are 4d3 hits, wound 5.33, kills 2.66
Rivet gun is 2 hits, wounds 1.66, kills 1.38
Stikkbomb is 1.16 hits, wounds .58, kills .29
Grot blasta hits .5, wounds .33, kill .16
Ram is 1 additional casualty
Combat hit 2, wound 1.33, kill .88
Total: 6.37

Snazzwagon
Big shoota is 1.5 hits, wound 1, kills 0.5
Mek Speshul is 3 hits, wounds 2, kills 1.66
Burna bottles are 2.33 hits, wounds 1.55, kills 1.04
Grot blasta is hits .5, wounds .25, kill .13
Combat hit 2, wound 1.33, kill .88
Total: 4.11

As you can see, the rivet gun is better at clearing guardsmen in cover than those burna bottles are, and the mek speshul can't take on the burna exhausts. KBB is the buggy you want to have clearing screens.

Edit: Fixed combat performance for snazzwagon.

There's a few other things to consider too.

If Guardsmen are in cover its unlikely you're making a charge into them at all. They'll hole up in buildings and take casualties from the GF as required.

The range of the Mek Speshul and Big Shootas far exceeds the Burna exhausts. So the Snazzwagon doesn't have to be in charge range to fire its anti infantry weapons and it can target a broader number of units. I don't like the idea of having to be within 8" to use my most potent horde clearing tool because without using Evil Sunz shenanigans I'm going to have to charge or I get charged. Then without wiping the unit that I'm engaged with I can't fire my weapons again and lose efficiency.

Look, if you want the awesome buggy with molotov-throwing orks to be awesome that's all great and good. But you are making up scenarios to give it some niche which it doesn't have. Both the KBB and the snazzwagon do the same job, with the snazzwagon simply being worse at it.

You also shouldn't keep it at a distance. At 24" it does two damage to T3/4+ models for 100 points - even the squig buggy (!) is way better at that range. Meanwhile throwing burna bottles and charging afterwards almost doubles its damage output to something at least half decent. Therefore you must get into that 6" grenade range to use them efficiently.

I think you guys misunderstand me. I know they aren't particularly competitive choices. But the models are gorgeous and I'm going to paint them beautifully. I know I'll be using all of them regardless of their credibility as a potent threat so I might as well figure out how to get the most out of them. Which is what I'm trying to do more than anything.

The way to use both the KBB and the snazzwagon is to drive up and kill as much light infantry as possible. When that's done, assault things that cannot fall back and shoot.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vineheart01 wrote:
guardsmen? cover?
With how cover works in 8 how the gak does a unit with more than 10 bodies ever get cover?
which is part of the reason i think the snazz is overpriced, putting too much value in that ignore cover in a game where cover is either not a thing or its negated by high enough AP anyway.

I assumed cover to show that the KBB outperforms the Snazzwagon even when they get to use their cover-ignoring ability. Of course, outside of cover or when -1 to hit is involved, the KBB becomes even better.

**PiñaColada**

Ehm, so maybe a dumb question but I never actually used our flyers so.. Can a burna-bommer drop bombs on a unit that is engaged in close combat? I'm guessing no, but might as well ask.

Also, if it flies off the board, does it explode on a 4+?

**Nightlord1987**

Help with deciding army clan!

I have about 5 units of 30 boyz, and one unit 30 gretchin. The rest of my collection are tons of Nobz, 2 Wyrdboys, 3 Warbosses (Plus Ghaz, Badrukk, and Grotsnik), Lootaz, and various trukks, buggies, koptaz, and a Battlewagon. At first I was gonna do a (somewhat) even split of Evil Suns and Death Skull, but I might just go all in on Death Skulls.

Obviously ES are the competitive choice, and i predict to be seeing alot of red Orkz at my LGS in the upcoming months. I myself, have always been partial to Death skulls, and have alot of looted trukks from cut open Rhinos and Goliaths.

Thoughts on where I should steer my collection? Is a Soup force better than a mono?

If the force is split, I would assume to tellyport/jump the Suns and just walk the Death Skulls.

**tneva82**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Help with deciding army clan!

I have about 5 units of 30 boyz, and one unit 30 gretchin. The rest of my collection are tons of Nobz, 2 Wyrdboys, 3 Warbosses (Plus Ghaz, Badrukk, and Grotsnik), Lootaz, and various trukks, buggies, koptaz, and a Battlewagon. At first I was gonna do a (somewhat) even split of Evil Suns and Death Skull, but I might just go all in on Death Skulls.

Obviously ES are the competitive choice, and i predict to be seeing alot of red Orkz at my LGS in the upcoming months. I myself, have always been partial to Death skulls, and have alot of looted trukks from cut open Rhinos and Goliaths.

Thoughts on where I should steer my collection? Is a Soup force better than a mono?

If the force is split, I would assume to tellyport/jump the Suns and just walk the Death Skulls.

It\s soup edition so obviously soup is going to be better than mono. Or to put it this way: Do you want 100% shooting or 100% h2h? If not you benefit more from having shooty stuff on shooty clan(bad moon or death skull) and h2h stuff in h2h clan(evil sun).

Also you have way too many boyz for one clan. You shouldn't be fielding much more than 2-3 units anyway. More grots meanwhile will be useful. I'm struggling to come up with effective list that doesn't have AT LEAST 40, more often 60+ grots.

You will need also tank bustas and both tank bustas and lootas benefit a LOT from having bad moon clan...For death skulls you would be looking more like small units with low shot high S/AP/damage shots to exploit the 1 reroll for to hit, wound and damage.

**daismith906**

Always wanted to do a defwing style lost back in the day

Is it a viable option now with this codex?

**koooaei**

daismith906 wrote:
Always wanted to do a defwing style lost back in the day

Is it a viable option now with this codex?

Meganobz are one of our top units imo. Now you fo need a backip plan for situations whrn you don't make a charge. Like taking even more meganobz so that at least someone would be able to tie things up.

They do consume a ton of cp though.

**BaconCatBug**

I just noticed something, 4 klaw Deff Dreads are Index only now, correct? The best you can do with the codex is 2 Klaws and 2 Saws?

**Vineheart01**

interesting note, yeah youre right BaconCatBug the Deffdread lets you replace the klaws but you cant replace the bigshootas with klaws.
Thats weird. Not that i'd bother, i like the 1klaw2saws idea

**Pandabeer**

BaconCatBug wrote:
I just noticed something, 4 klaw Deff Dreads are Index only now, correct? The best you can do with the codex is 2 Klaws and 2 Saws?

Correct.

**BaconCatBug**

Vineheart01 wrote:
interesting note, yeah youre right BaconCatBug the Deffdread lets you replace the klaws but you cant replace the bigshootas with klaws.
Thats weird. Not that i'd bother, i like the 1klaw2saws idea

I personally was thinking maybe 1Klaw3Saw would work out well. Thats 3 Klaw Attacks and 3 Saw attacks. Telllyport it up turn 2 and Ramming Speed it into something and rip it a new one.

**Pandabeer**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
interesting note, yeah youre right BaconCatBug the Deffdread lets you replace the klaws but you cant replace the bigshootas with klaws.
Thats weird. Not that i'd bother, i like the 1klaw2saws idea
I personally was thinking maybe 1Klaw3Saw would work out well. Thats 3 Klaw Attacks and 3 Saw attacks. Telllyport it up turn 2 and Ramming Speed it into something and rip it a new one.

Klaws are better than saws though. Think it's worth the extra 5 points to get an extra klaw attack unless you really need those 5 points to bring something else.

**BaconCatBug**

Also true. I mean in an Ideal world i'd stick to 4 klaws but I personally just suck it up and pretend the indexes don't exist.