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tneva82 wrote:
Dammit. Had had some hope flash gits would be if not great at least playable but without free boota detachment seems bit hard. Can\t use more dakka inside transport so can't use that to overcome having to move T1. If you are outside transport can't use grot screen either without freeboota detachment. Bummer :(

1) The bonus of more dakka doesn't care if gits move or not since they have BS4+(3+ for the kaptin). You get the same bonus damage out of the stratagem whether you move or not.
2) What's wrong with just moving them T1? Even at BS5+ they throw down ridiculous amounts of dakka, easily being worth their points (3 dead primaris/4.5 dead GEQ). You can then bunker up somewhere midfield starting T2. Heavy weapons can and should move this edition, plus gits have a close combat profile you might want to use.
3) Putting them in a detachment with gretchin doesn't do a lot outside letting those gretchin die for them via stratagem. The Freeboota trait only does something when you wipe out a unit, gretchin are not going to do that.

If you really want to field Freeboota flash gits, I'd go with badrukk + 3x 5 flash gits to maximize the free gitfindas on the captins as a spearhead. You're also more likely to have models benefiting from +1 to hit. Since you check if something is dead after every 15 shots. Best case you can have badrukk blow something up and then all three units get BS2+/3+ with re-rolling ones.
Stratagem coverage really doesn't matter here as more dakka is just overkill for them, plus you already have plenty of units eating your CP.

In general, IMO Freeboota kulture only makes sense when you have many units that benefit from it and many units that can trigger it. Unlike other kultures, souping hurts them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JeffVimes wrote:
What do you think would be the best way to run bikers? MSU of 3 to keep things cheap, or by large squad to be able to maximise the -1 to hit stratagem?

There is no advantage in running MSU. The klaw can't kill anything, and you lack numbers to wipe out infantry or contest objectives.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Dammit. Had had some hope flash gits would be if not great at least playable but without free boota detachment seems bit hard. Can\t use more dakka inside transport so can't use that to overcome having to move T1. If you are outside transport can't use grot screen either without freeboota detachment. Bummer :(

1) The bonus of more dakka doesn't care if gits move or not since they have BS4+(3+ for the kaptin). You get the same bonus damage out of the stratagem whether you move or not.
2) What's wrong with just moving them T1? Even at BS5+ they throw down ridiculous amounts of dakka, easily being worth their points (3 dead primaris/4.5 dead GEQ). You can then bunker up somewhere midfield starting T2. Heavy weapons can and should move this edition, plus gits have a close combat profile you might want to use.
3) Putting them in a detachment with gretchin doesn't do a lot outside letting those gretchin die for them via stratagem. The Freeboota trait only does something when you wipe out a unit, gretchin are not going to do that.

If you really want to field Freeboota flash gits, I'd go with badrukk + 3x 5 flash gits to maximize the free gitfindas on the captins as a spearhead. You're also more likely to have models benefiting from +1 to hit. Since you check if something is dead after every 15 shots. Best case you can have badrukk blow something up and then all three units get BS2+/3+ with re-rolling ones.
Stratagem coverage really doesn't matter here as more dakka is just overkill for them, plus you already have plenty of units eating your CP.

In general, IMO Freeboota kulture only makes sense when you have many units that benefit from it and many units that can trigger it. Unlike other kultures, souping hurts them.

Remember, Mek Gunz are gretchins. and they're really really good at killing things.

The only reason to take actual grots (the troop choice) in your freeboota detchment is...why wouldn't you, CPs are nice! sure you need one more mandatory HQ, but ork psychic powers don't care about Clan, so just take your Weirdboyz as Freebootas.

When I was making up my lists, I found no reason to not include a freeboota detachment, I was bringing enough gretchin for a second battalion anyway and it was just like...ok, I'll throw my shooty units in here and I'll just remember to shoot with the mek guns first. Both turns that mattered, I was able to have my flash gits and my wazbom jet boosted with the freeboota kultur in the shooting phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And if you don't want to invest even that heavily, one single unit of Flash Gitz can be turned into a Spearhead by declaring 1 weirdboy and 2 individual mek gunz as freebootas.

You're going to want minimum 1 waaagh aura in an army, and minimum 2 weirdboys (IMO, fists of gork and da jump are pretty mandatory).

that means you'll almost always have 1 HQ free to slip into a mandatory slot.

the_scotsman wrote:

I'd take a trukk for either of them personally, for the lootas primarily to keep them from being shot and they get a 50% chance for a free Loot It when it dies, for the gits to get them in range and because Loot It is huge value for them.

Inside trukk no more dakka, no show off. And the loot it for passengers is disputed status in terms of legality.

For the bustas, unless you're taking a max blob and trying to do showin' off double taps with them, make much more sense in a freeboota detachment. Simple reason being if the bad moon kultur matters...you're shooting them at the wrong thing. And even when it does matter, assuming your mek gunz can kill something (if they don't, you don't have enough mek gunz) the freeboota kultur is a higher numbers swing than the bad moonz kultur anyway.

a) show off
b) you can't always dictate targets. Hell there are entire factions where you won't HAVE vehicles to shoot at but have plenty of big tough targets to shoot at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

3) Putting them in a detachment with gretchin doesn't do a lot outside letting those gretchin die for them via stratagem. The Freeboota trait only does something when you wipe out a unit, gretchin are not going to do that.

That's the whole point...Otherwise they get just deleted when enemy decides it's their time to die. Flash gits problem has never been killyness(that was good enough in index) but the fact they get deleted the moment enemy has turn.

Put Flashgitz in a Battlewagon. If the Battlewagon is destroyed, have a unit loot it for 3+ armour save.

Flashgitz are one of the most improved units now and tougher now. Put a Painboy with them if you want to extend their survivability.

 Elfric wrote:
Put Flashgitz in a Battlewagon. If the Battlewagon is destroyed, have a unit loot it for 3+ armour save.

Flashgitz are one of the most improved units now and tougher now. Put a Painboy with them if you want to extend their survivability.

a) no strategems inside it so no more dakka
b) legality of loot if for passengers is seriously debated so don't count on being able to do it at least until FAQ clears it up.

Honestly, I think this depends on where you think CPs are better spent. I'd rather my shooting unit sit in their transport and continue to fire every turn than my shooting unit pop out, shoot twice one time, then instantly die to return fire.

If I spend CPs I'm going to be fighting twice, tellyporting, and throwing down grot shields. If you're going to go for a full shooty list, I 100% agree that you should bring some tankbustas in a bad moonz detachment for showin' off, but if I'm not dumping CPs into a shooty unit I want it to be in my freebootas detachment instead, since freebootas is a higher value kultur once it does go off.

Tankbustas in general I just look at and go..man..I could spend these points on more smasha gunz...wheras with flash gitz/lootas I feel they have more of a unique role to bring to the table. And I prefer the gitz to the lootas.

A unit of Bad Moonz Lootas firing at a T5 or less target where the multi-damage matters on Showin' Off deals .061 damage per point.

A unit of flash gitz just sitting in a trukk, using no stratagems, at their full BS with the Freebootas kultur on deals .059 damage per point.

a unit with 4+ save sitting in the protection of their trukk and spending no CP > a unit with a 6+ save that has to sit in the open and spend 2CP.

really dont see how people are saying you cant use CP on a unit embarked.
By that logic you cant shoot with them period. Open Topped doesnt specify a special way to select them to shoot. At all.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
really dont see how people are saying you cant use CP on a unit embarked.
By that logic you cant shoot with them period. Open Topped doesnt specify a special way to select them to shoot. At all.

Unit in transport is not on board and is not valid for any action unless specific excemption is given. Open topped gives you special excemption to shoot with. It does not specify any special excemption for strategems though.

I went looking to see if any FAQ specifically mentioned stratagems and open-topped (it doesn't, though it does mentioned that Aura abilities do not affect units inside a transport firing with Open Topped)

but the BRB faq did have this to say about the sequence with disembarking when a transport is destroyed:

"Q: How do transports work with regards to disembarking units
upon the transport’s destruction?
A: Disembarking from a destroyed transport operates
as follows:

1. If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent)
roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting
damage to nearby units.*

2. All models inside immediately disembark following the
standard rules for disembarkation.

3. Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models
disembarked in this fashion.

4. Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be
allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the
controlling player may choose which model.

5. Remove the destroyed transport model.

* Note that if the transport does explode, units being
transported are not affected as they are not yet on
the battlefield."

I don't understand how you could interpret this sequence in such a way where a unit would not be able to use Loot It! when they disembark from the transport at step 2, but before you remove the destroyed transport at step 5.

The transport is described as "destroyed" from step 1, and it is also described as "destroyed" at step 5....it follows from that that at step 2, the unit is on the board, and there is a destroyed transport within 3" of it. Therefore, use the stratagem then.

Wheres the debate here?

I have asked GW about this, so hopefully they clarify it. One way or another.

In normal cases a unit embarked on a transport is not considered to be "on the table" but they are at that point basically a static entity on another table not yet in the game. If a shooting unit is in an open-topped vehicle they can participate in the shooting phase and as such should be able to be targeted by stratagems I feel. They are on the table then, a transport is really not any different than a grot shield in my mind.

Until GW states otherwise I won't play strats on them but I really do believe they intended it to be possible to play strats on units embarked on open topped transports.

the_scotsman wrote:
Wheres the debate here?

There's entire thread about that on YDMC that's so far undecided. If you have thread that just fizzled off without good answer either way it's pretty clear sign it's still disbuted.

the_scotsman wrote:
I went looking to see if any FAQ specifically mentioned stratagems and open-topped (it doesn't, though it does mentioned that Aura abilities do not affect units inside a transport firing with Open Topped)

but the BRB faq did have this to say about the sequence with disembarking when a transport is destroyed:

"Q: How do transports work with regards to disembarking units
upon the transport’s destruction?
A: Disembarking from a destroyed transport operates
as follows:

1. If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent)
roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting
damage to nearby units.*

2. All models inside immediately disembark following the
standard rules for disembarkation.

3. Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models
disembarked in this fashion.

4. Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be
allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the
controlling player may choose which model.

5. Remove the destroyed transport model.

* Note that if the transport does explode, units being
transported are not affected as they are not yet on
the battlefield."

I don't understand how you could interpret this sequence in such a way where a unit would not be able to use Loot It! when they disembark from the transport at step 2, but before you remove the destroyed transport at step 5.

The transport is described as "destroyed" from step 1, and it is also described as "destroyed" at step 5....it follows from that that at step 2, the unit is on the board, and there is a destroyed transport within 3" of it. Therefore, use the stratagem then.

Wheres the debate here?

Personally don’t understand why there’s any debate it’s pretty clear in raw and rai that you can’t loot a vehicle you are in.

Guyver 3 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I went looking to see if any FAQ specifically mentioned stratagems and open-topped (it doesn't, though it does mentioned that Aura abilities do not affect units inside a transport firing with Open Topped)

but the BRB faq did have this to say about the sequence with disembarking when a transport is destroyed:

"Q: How do transports work with regards to disembarking units
upon the transport’s destruction?
A: Disembarking from a destroyed transport operates
as follows:

1. If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent)
roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting
damage to nearby units.*

2. All models inside immediately disembark following the
standard rules for disembarkation.

3. Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models
disembarked in this fashion.

4. Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be
allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the
controlling player may choose which model.

5. Remove the destroyed transport model.

* Note that if the transport does explode, units being
transported are not affected as they are not yet on
the battlefield."

I don't understand how you could interpret this sequence in such a way where a unit would not be able to use Loot It! when they disembark from the transport at step 2, but before you remove the destroyed transport at step 5.

The transport is described as "destroyed" from step 1, and it is also described as "destroyed" at step 5....it follows from that that at step 2, the unit is on the board, and there is a destroyed transport within 3" of it. Therefore, use the stratagem then.

Wheres the debate here?

Personally don’t understand why there’s any debate it’s pretty clear in raw and rai that you can’t loot a vehicle you are in.

...You use the stratagem when a vehicle is destroyed.

You get out of the vehicle at step 2 of this sequence. at that point, you are now on the board.

let's look at step 5 of this sequence to see if the vehicle is still destroyed at Step 2. It's destroyed at the beginning of this sequence. It's still destroyed at step 5 of this sequence.

Does it stop being destroyed at some point?

the_scotsman wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I went looking to see if any FAQ specifically mentioned stratagems and open-topped (it doesn't, though it does mentioned that Aura abilities do not affect units inside a transport firing with Open Topped)

but the BRB faq did have this to say about the sequence with disembarking when a transport is destroyed:

"Q: How do transports work with regards to disembarking units
upon the transport’s destruction?
A: Disembarking from a destroyed transport operates
as follows:

1. If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent)
roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting
damage to nearby units.*

2. All models inside immediately disembark following the
standard rules for disembarkation.

3. Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models
disembarked in this fashion.

4. Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be
allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the
controlling player may choose which model.

5. Remove the destroyed transport model.

* Note that if the transport does explode, units being
transported are not affected as they are not yet on
the battlefield."

I don't understand how you could interpret this sequence in such a way where a unit would not be able to use Loot It! when they disembark from the transport at step 2, but before you remove the destroyed transport at step 5.

The transport is described as "destroyed" from step 1, and it is also described as "destroyed" at step 5....it follows from that that at step 2, the unit is on the board, and there is a destroyed transport within 3" of it. Therefore, use the stratagem then.

Wheres the debate here?

Personally don’t understand why there’s any debate it’s pretty clear in raw and rai that you can’t loot a vehicle you are in.

...You use the stratagem when a vehicle is destroyed.

You get out of the vehicle at step 2 of this sequence. at that point, you are now on the board.

let's look at step 5 of this sequence to see if the vehicle is still destroyed at Step 2. It's destroyed at the beginning of this sequence. It's still destroyed at step 5 of this sequence.

Does it stop being destroyed at some point?

The stratagem says when a vehicle is destroyed within 3” of a unit you can loot it

A unit embarked on a transport would not be on the table when the unit was destroyed and embarked units can’t benefit from stratagems

I know kombis are expensive but... I feel like if you’re teleporting a unit in a tank/trukk and have limited capacity and a few extra points... maybe I would run a couple of kombis?
Heck even if ya just had extra points and no useful or way you wanted to use them


Could teleport 2 trukk full of nobs, with some kombis, and a wagon full of grots (or grots and chars) to shield them (and provide them a 20 cap transport they can both get into if need be? 10 grots and a wagon is like 9 PL? So could easily cram a couple characters on the wagon the teleport in also.

Probably not most effective use of points but I could see a use. I was thinking having a unit of them roast something to buff rest of army with +1 to hit. Skorxhas would be only ranged weap in unit and help get buff up like mek guns. Thought anti infantry, short range and same point cost with much lower damage potential.... but the delivery system is more mobile, has utility to fight in CC (especially with a cheap power stabba)... can stick with the rest of your army opposed to be overrun like Mek guns may? (If playing freebooters and looking for something to Combo the bonus. Having some shooting on every single unit seems important for this, one Infantry model from Some chaff unit could be easily killed by a single skorcha or a Kustom shoota from a nob or manz squad?

skyfi wrote:
I know kombis are expensive but... I feel like if you’re teleporting a unit in a tank/trukk and have limited capacity and a few extra points... maybe I would run a couple of kombis?
Heck even if ya just had extra points and no useful or way you wanted to use the


Could teleport 2 trukk full of nobs, with some kombis, and a wagon full of grots (or grots and chars) to shield them (and provide them a 20 cap transport they can both get into if need be? 10 grots and a wagon is like 9 PL? So could easily cram a couple characters on the wagon the teleport in also.

Probably not most effective use of points but I could see a use. I was thinking having a unit of them roast something to buff rest of army with +1 to hit. Skorxhas would be only ranged weap in unit and help get buff up like mek guns. Thought anti infantry, short range and same point cost with much lower damage potential.... but the delivery system is more mobile, has utility to fight in CC (especially with a cheap power stabba)... can stick with the rest of your army opposed to be overrun like Mek guns may? (If playing freebooters and looking for something to Combo the bonus. Having some shooting on every single unit seems important for this, one Infantry model from Some chaff unit could be easily killed by a single skorcha or a Kustom shoota from a nob or manz squad?

Umm you would spend 2CP to teleport some GROTS? Remember it's not units up to 20PL but unit up to 20PL. Each unit you put into teleport is 2CP(units inside transport don't count for PL of transport). Thus 2 trukks with nobs=4 CP, wagon full of grots=2CP, total=6CP.

Orks are hard pressed for CP's as it is. Tellyporting grots is not particulary efficient usage of CP's.

So, this was one of those arguments where a rule was unclear enough that one side could just keep yelling "I FEEL LIKE THIS SHOULD NOT WORK" loud enough to keep it "in debate" until we get a definite FAQ in 2 weeks. Gotcha. If you read the existing FAQ, it's pretty damn clear that a vehicle is still "destroyed" when you get out of it and before you remove it from the table - unless you're in the habit of claiming to your opponent that they're not allowed to use any kind of reactive stratagem unless they scream out that they're using it at the exact millisecond you declare something, there doesn't seem to be a ton of ground to stand on here. 40k is a board game. Nothing is truly "momentary" - "when a unit is targeted by a shooting attack" lasts from when the declaration is made until the dice begin to roll. "when a vehicle is destroyed" lasts from when the vehicle loses its final wound until the vehicle is removed from the board, as the existing FAQ ruling makes clear.

skifi, how are you using a kombi scorcha on a unit that is teleporting? Also, you need to kill a UNIT to get freebootas, not a model.

tneva82 wrote:

skyfi wrote:
I know kombis are expensive but... I feel like if you’re teleporting a unit in a tank/trukk and have limited capacity and a few extra points... maybe I would run a couple of kombis?
Heck even if ya just had extra points and no useful or way you wanted to use the


Could teleport 2 trukk full of nobs, with some kombis, and a wagon full of grots (or grots and chars) to shield them (and provide them a 20 cap transport they can both get into if need be? 10 grots and a wagon is like 9 PL? So could easily cram a couple characters on the wagon the teleport in also.

Probably not most effective use of points but I could see a use. I was thinking having a unit of them roast something to buff rest of army with +1 to hit. Skorxhas would be only ranged weap in unit and help get buff up like mek guns. Thought anti infantry, short range and same point cost with much lower damage potential.... but the delivery system is more mobile, has utility to fight in CC (especially with a cheap power stabba)... can stick with the rest of your army opposed to be overrun like Mek guns may? (If playing freebooters and looking for something to Combo the bonus. Having some shooting on every single unit seems important for this, one Infantry model from Some chaff unit could be easily killed by a single skorcha or a Kustom shoota from a nob or manz squad?

Umm you would spend 2CP to teleport some GROTS? Remember it's not units up to 20PL but unit up to 20PL. Each unit you put into teleport is 2CP(units inside transport don't count for PL of transport). Thus 2 trukks with nobs=4 CP, wagon full of grots=2CP, total=6CP.

Orks are hard pressed for CP's as it is. Tellyporting grots is not particulary efficient usage of CP's.

I was under impression teleport 20 PL limitation included passengers as well? Which was the logic of grots. You’re more or less teleporting an extra vehicle up front with a character, added benefit is Grot screen filling up seats? Always seemed to be an issue of Killy stuff getting it’s transported destroyed, usually in my deploymEnt zone.

To answer both Tneva and the scotsman.

I think he means the grots are in a transport that gets tellyported, say a battlewagon with 10 nobz and 10 grots. Because you can't even tellyport grots otherwise, can you? Gretchin can't be the target of strats unless specifically mentioned.

I also assume he means kombi-rokkits or at least kombiweapons in general, because otherwise it doesn't make much sense due to the lack of range combined with them dropping T2. Meaning they'd use the weapons at T3 if they're lucky..

the_scotsman wrote:
So, this was one of those arguments where a rule was unclear enough that one side could just keep yelling "I FEEL LIKE THIS SHOULD NOT WORK" loud enough to keep it "in debate" until we get a definite FAQ in 2 weeks. Gotcha. If you read the existing FAQ, it's pretty damn clear that a vehicle is still "destroyed" when you get out of it and before you remove it from the table - unless you're in the habit of claiming to your opponent that they're not allowed to use any kind of reactive stratagem unless they scream out that they're using it at the exact millisecond you declare something, there doesn't seem to be a ton of ground to stand on here. 40k is a board game. Nothing is truly "momentary" - "when a unit is targeted by a shooting attack" lasts from when the declaration is made until the dice begin to roll. "when a vehicle is destroyed" lasts from when the vehicle loses its final wound until the vehicle is removed from the board, as the existing FAQ ruling makes clear.

skifi, how are you using a kombi scorcha on a unit that is teleporting? Also, you need to kill a UNIT to get freebootas, not a model.

Can’t use it turn you drop in as 9” away, just reporting to not get shot to death t1.

I figure using your firing base you can whittle units down on T1, so that when you can use skorchas it might be an easy way to get a bonus in a future shooting phase? I figure having Nobs in trukk even with kff, gonna lose their trukks before they move if you don’t get t1. Porting them at least has their trukks die 9” away from enemies? (And your nearby boys can loot the truck?, that is if you jump 30 boys up or also port them in.)

Even spending 6 CP on porting or 8....
Doesn’t seem terrible with freebooters? If they are MSU you don’t benefit as much from some stratagems? If you’re running a brigade, seems like spending 6-8 on that is ok?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
To answer both Tneva and the scotsman.

I think he means the grots are in a transport that gets tellyported, say a battlewagon with 10 nobz and 10 grots. Because you can't even tellyport grots otherwise, can you? Gretchin can't be the target of strats unless specifically mentioned.

I also assume he means kombi-rokkits or at least kombiweapons in general, because otherwise it doesn't make much sense due to the lack of range combined with them dropping T2. Meaning they'd use the weapons at T3 if they're lucky..

Yeah grots would be in a wagon with nobs or whatever. Just to get under the restriction and make sure grots get used as shield where needed... and don’t have to waste jump on them?

Taking one kombi rokkit isn’t bad with ammo runt especially if culture bonus is up already I think.

Kombi skorchas are more what I’m thinking tho. For whatever reason I thought you could teleport in t1, then shoot them t2. If you can’t port in t1 though :(

Wagon 8 PL
Grots 1PL
3 manz 6 pl (or characters)
Warboss 5 Pl?

All fit in 20 cap wagon to port in,


Like 10 nobs (14 PL) trukk (3) and weirdboy (3) would make another 20 PL combo?


If it’s just the transport PL that counts... omg

the_scotsman wrote:

 JeffVimes wrote:
What do you think would be the best way to run bikers? MSU of 3 to keep things cheap, or by large squad to be able to maximise the -1 to hit stratagem?

Go large, but IMO they're a minimally competitive unit at best. I think a large squad is the best way to run a mediocre unit. In small squads, I just wonder why I'm not just bringing a skrapjet, a deffcopta, or even a boomdakka for a couple points more.

Thanks, that what I thought as well. I like the model and it fits the theme of my list, so I will still run them nut I wanted to have an opinion on how to make sure they are not just lost points.

Speaking of bikes, did their base size change with Speed Freeks? I'm building some bikes and need to source bases, but I'm not sure what the "current" base is.

Anyone tried a bike star yet?

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Speaking of bikes, did their base size change with Speed Freeks? I'm building some bikes and need to source bases, but I'm not sure what the "current" base is.

Yes they did, they are now the 75x42mm oval bases

skyfi wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

skyfi wrote:
I know kombis are expensive but... I feel like if you’re teleporting a unit in a tank/trukk and have limited capacity and a few extra points... maybe I would run a couple of kombis?
Heck even if ya just had extra points and no useful or way you wanted to use the


Could teleport 2 trukk full of nobs, with some kombis, and a wagon full of grots (or grots and chars) to shield them (and provide them a 20 cap transport they can both get into if need be? 10 grots and a wagon is like 9 PL? So could easily cram a couple characters on the wagon the teleport in also.

Probably not most effective use of points but I could see a use. I was thinking having a unit of them roast something to buff rest of army with +1 to hit. Skorxhas would be only ranged weap in unit and help get buff up like mek guns. Thought anti infantry, short range and same point cost with much lower damage potential.... but the delivery system is more mobile, has utility to fight in CC (especially with a cheap power stabba)... can stick with the rest of your army opposed to be overrun like Mek guns may? (If playing freebooters and looking for something to Combo the bonus. Having some shooting on every single unit seems important for this, one Infantry model from Some chaff unit could be easily killed by a single skorcha or a Kustom shoota from a nob or manz squad?

Umm you would spend 2CP to teleport some GROTS? Remember it's not units up to 20PL but unit up to 20PL. Each unit you put into teleport is 2CP(units inside transport don't count for PL of transport). Thus 2 trukks with nobs=4 CP, wagon full of grots=2CP, total=6CP.

Orks are hard pressed for CP's as it is. Tellyporting grots is not particulary efficient usage of CP's.

I was under impression teleport 20 PL limitation included passengers as well? Which was the logic of grots. You’re more or less teleporting an extra vehicle up front with a character, added benefit is Grot screen filling up seats? Always seemed to be an issue of Killy stuff getting it’s transported destroyed, usually in my deploymEnt zone.

Well yeah but what vehicle on earth you would want to teleport that you can't fill in with anything WORTHWHILE? The grots wouldn't be doing anything but fire pew-pew S3 pistols before turn 3 anyway. Put in tank bustas, flashgits, choppa boyz hell even shoota boyz or whatever that actually does something.

wait seriously units embarked dont get aura effects, even if the aura is inside the vehicle too?
So flashgitz + Badrukk in a wagon = no reroll 1s? thats unbelievably stupid. Yet another nail in the flashgit coffin.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
wait seriously units embarked dont get aura effects, even if the aura is inside the vehicle too?
So flashgitz + Badrukk in a wagon = no reroll 1s? thats unbelievably stupid. Yet another nail in the flashgit coffin.

Yep. Unless exception is given they are not existant.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
wait seriously units embarked dont get aura effects, even if the aura is inside the vehicle too?
So flashgitz + Badrukk in a wagon = no reroll 1s? thats unbelievably stupid. Yet another nail in the flashgit coffin.

That is what I have been saying since 8th dropped. So many important things are missing to make a number of Ork units worth taking. The Flashgitz one is important, but right now with the codex how about Tankbustas and the shoot twice strat? Can't do it if they are embarked on a transport and they can't live for more than 1 turn without a transport GW loves making useless things for the ork army, it is astounding.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Dammit. Had had some hope flash gits would be if not great at least playable but without free boota detachment seems bit hard. Can\t use more dakka inside transport so can't use that to overcome having to move T1. If you are outside transport can't use grot screen either without freeboota detachment. Bummer :(

1) The bonus of more dakka doesn't care if gits move or not since they have BS4+(3+ for the kaptin). You get the same bonus damage out of the stratagem whether you move or not.
2) What's wrong with just moving them T1? Even at BS5+ they throw down ridiculous amounts of dakka, easily being worth their points (3 dead primaris/4.5 dead GEQ). You can then bunker up somewhere midfield starting T2. Heavy weapons can and should move this edition, plus gits have a close combat profile you might want to use.
3) Putting them in a detachment with gretchin doesn't do a lot outside letting those gretchin die for them via stratagem. The Freeboota trait only does something when you wipe out a unit, gretchin are not going to do that.

If you really want to field Freeboota flash gits, I'd go with badrukk + 3x 5 flash gits to maximize the free gitfindas on the captins as a spearhead. You're also more likely to have models benefiting from +1 to hit. Since you check if something is dead after every 15 shots. Best case you can have badrukk blow something up and then all three units get BS2+/3+ with re-rolling ones.
Stratagem coverage really doesn't matter here as more dakka is just overkill for them, plus you already have plenty of units eating your CP.

In general, IMO Freeboota kulture only makes sense when you have many units that benefit from it and many units that can trigger it. Unlike other kultures, souping hurts them.

Remember, Mek Gunz are gretchins. and they're really really good at killing things.

The only reason to take actual grots (the troop choice) in your freeboota detchment is...why wouldn't you, CPs are nice! sure you need one more mandatory HQ, but ork psychic powers don't care about Clan, so just take your Weirdboyz as Freebootas.

When I was making up my lists, I found no reason to not include a freeboota detachment, I was bringing enough gretchin for a second battalion anyway and it was just like...ok, I'll throw my shooty units in here and I'll just remember to shoot with the mek guns first. Both turns that mattered, I was able to have my flash gits and my wazbom jet boosted with the freeboota kultur in the shooting phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And if you don't want to invest even that heavily, one single unit of Flash Gitz can be turned into a Spearhead by declaring 1 weirdboy and 2 individual mek gunz as freebootas.

You're going to want minimum 1 waaagh aura in an army, and minimum 2 weirdboys (IMO, fists of gork and da jump are pretty mandatory).

that means you'll almost always have 1 HQ free to slip into a mandatory slot.

I'm still not convinced that mek guns get the Freeboota aura.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm still not convinced that mek guns get the Freeboota aura.

While the guns themselves don't benefit from the Kultur, if you give them FREEBOOTAZ as a <CLAN> they still get to buff other units by destroying things.

Units comprised entirely of GRETCHIN cannot benefit from any Clan Kultur. In addition, Ork Stratagems can only be used on these units if the Stratagem explicitly states so (e.g. the ‘Grot Shields’ Stratagem).

Adding to the destroyed count that other units benefit from is not benefiting from the Clan Kultur. Gretchin units still have the Kultur, they just don't benefit from it. Neither the "Grots" or the Kultur itself prevents the unit being destroyed from being destroyed by a FREEBOOTAZ unit.