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Triple battallion (18 CP) with

3 weirdboyz
biker boss
big mek with KFF
big mek with SAG (or possibly a second KFF)

6x10 gretchins
3x30 boyz including nobz with big choppas

10 lootas
15 lootas

Only costs 1690 points. Cheap enough to add a 4th mob of 30 boyz, more gretchins and eventually a min squad of kommandos to grab objectives or harass backline shooters. Boyz, warboss and another HQ would be evil sunz. 60 gretchins are the minimum to shield the lootas, I'd also put a KFF because a list like this needs cheap HQs and there's rule of three. Adding the invuln makes lootas even more hard to kill.

I've tried this list in a few games (I had 3x deff dreads to complete the list, so no full green tide, but they arrive by tellyporta) and it can already be too powerful for casual or semi-competitive metas.

12 bustas could fire 24 shots. 12 hits. Let's say no more dakka. Another 3 hits. 7-8wounds, 5-6 past save, 15-18 wounds in.

Then rest of stuff

If you really want it dead 15 bad moon tank busta and another 10. Mob up, da jump, fire, shoot again. Average 36 wounds. If you want to be super sure max bomb squigs(i think these even get extra shots from rolling 1). The thing will go up in nuclear explosion. You need super unlucky rolls to fail

Thanks for color!

All the shields tactics, lootas are quite complicated for me , and not much orky. So i will try the said roster (plus it is already done except morkonaut and 3 nobz which is already bought) and will reply about the result.

Looks like on average the KLOS kills about 10.5 ork boyz a turn with its shooting, if it's within 18". If you have a Kustom Force Field bubble, that goes down to 7. Given taht you can pretty much totally punk the thing by bringing a couple 10-man gretchins squads and just lining them up in front, I think it's safe to say you wouldn't have to be too afraid of it.

hmm...anyone got any thoughts on the specialist detachments for orks, from the new vigilus defiant book?

 ZoBo wrote:
hmm...anyone got any thoughts on the specialist detachments for orks, from the new vigilus defiant book?

My ratings would be:

Stompa Mob: Shocker, this rating. Amazingly, taking 3k points of garbage to get very very small buffs does not a solid list make.

Kult of Speed: The special relic gives approximately equal durability to the deffkilla as does the Supa-Cybork, and when combined with the toughness warlord trait that stacks with it (ard as nails, in this case) it gives less durability than the Supa-Cybork combo of the 4++ Bad Moonz trait. The warlord trait is very situational. The only thing that's really worth it is the stratagem, making a 100% guaranteed charge of anything on the board for a speed freek unit. However, we basically have guaranteed turn 1 charges with plenty of stuff, so I don't know if it's worth a total of 3cp. I'll be leaving this one at home even when I play my speed freek army.

Dred Mob: here's where we start getting into the usable stuff. Deathskullz in particular love this one. I can also see it being worth it for Freebootas or Bad Moonz. Waiting for the FAQ to confirm whether it allows kan mobz to shoot twice, that'd be really nice. The only real "womp womp" here is that one of the two stratagems you get for your pricy buy-in detachment involves the craptastic mek shop....

Blitz Brigade: Here's what I'll be using with my speed freeks list! Say, have you ever wanted to have practically your entire army in range to charge turn 1? Take one of these with Rezmekkkas Redder Armor and the Backseat Driver trait and you'll have your Da Jumped squad, your Bonebreaka, Your Hang On Boyz'd squad, and your Deffkilla Wartrike+any warbikes in range to charge. This detachment gets real goofy real fast. The whole gunwagon+battlewagon combo thing isn't even that bad, I paid a CP for a mini-mek to have the blitz shouta and put it in a battlewagon filled with tankbustas next to an empty gunwagon, and they provided some solid backline firepower.

the_scotsman wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
hmm...anyone got any thoughts on the specialist detachments for orks, from the new vigilus defiant book?

My ratings would be:

Stompa Mob: Shocker, this rating. Amazingly, taking 3k points of garbage to get very very small buffs does not a solid list make.

Kult of Speed: The special relic gives approximately equal durability to the deffkilla as does the Supa-Cybork, and when combined with the toughness warlord trait that stacks with it (ard as nails, in this case) it gives less durability than the Supa-Cybork combo of the 4++ Bad Moonz trait. The warlord trait is very situational. The only thing that's really worth it is the stratagem, making a 100% guaranteed charge of anything on the board for a speed freek unit. However, we basically have guaranteed turn 1 charges with plenty of stuff, so I don't know if it's worth a total of 3cp. I'll be leaving this one at home even when I play my speed freek army.

Dred Mob: here's where we start getting into the usable stuff. Deathskullz in particular love this one. I can also see it being worth it for Freebootas or Bad Moonz. Waiting for the FAQ to confirm whether it allows kan mobz to shoot twice, that'd be really nice. The only real "womp womp" here is that one of the two stratagems you get for your pricy buy-in detachment involves the craptastic mek shop....

Blitz Brigade: Here's what I'll be using with my speed freeks list! Say, have you ever wanted to have practically your entire army in range to charge turn 1? Take one of these with Rezmekkkas Redder Armor and the Backseat Driver trait and you'll have your Da Jumped squad, your Bonebreaka, Your Hang On Boyz'd squad, and your Deffkilla Wartrike+any warbikes in range to charge. This detachment gets real goofy real fast. The whole gunwagon+battlewagon combo thing isn't even that bad, I paid a CP for a mini-mek to have the blitz shouta and put it in a battlewagon filled with tankbustas next to an empty gunwagon, and they provided some solid backline firepower.

Your Hang On Boyz'd squad wont be able to charge turn 1 sadly, might aswell bring up some bustas so they can actualy do something the turn they hang on and not just stand there picking flowers. Also only a WARBOSS may take the Blitz Shouta, as he is the ONLY character to gain the Blitz Brigade Keyword, not any other character. Warbosses, Battlewagons, Gunwagons and Bonebreakas. The relic requires a BLITZ BRIGADE CHARACTER, the minimek does not have the keyword. He may be in the specialist detachment but he doesnt get the keyword. Just GW bad rules writing for you. So the warboss will have the shouta and the mek the redder armour.

Its the same with our Kult of Speed, it only includes SPEED FREEKS, but Kult of Speeds in the past have had planes and trukk boys that form it.... so i dont view many of the specialist detachments to be that good.

Stompa Mob cant be used in standard games, Dread Waaagh is ok for a bad moons shokk attack Big Mek and a Gorka/Morka, Kult of Speed just makes one squad of Warbikes quicker which they are already quick as it is and Blitz Brigade is only good for evil sunz bonebreakas.

About KMB Lone Koptas with Deathskullz Klan Kultur, I wasn’t that impressed. Only one shot each doesn’t get enough hits. Next time I will try them in pairs, or solo but with kopta rokkits instead of KMB.

Certainly valid weapons. You get 38% more shots per point which is nice. However you do lose blip of ap and cause more than 1damage less per wound past save. Which actually compensates for more shots so extra ap actually wins out...however against w3 models rokkits are clear winners.

hopefully the dreadwaaagh shoot twice strat can benefit kans, and equip a whole squad with kmb and get some nasty dmg in a turn of good shooting and the kilakans with some kff suport and maybe a banner nob can hold their own on an objective (would be a reason to take them over the very static kmk mek gun).

maybe a good combo is 6 kmb kilakans with a kff mork making their way to the enemy lines raining down plasma while 6 defdredds and a gorkanaut come out of tellyport to reap the enemy line. have mek gunz hold your back objectives while dishing out offensive fire power along with a bigmek with the sag relic.


----===---
Gorkanaut 311 (tellyport)
Morkanaut kff 301 (march)
Deffdredd,3 saw, 1claw 100x6 (600) (tellyport x2)
Killakanz,kmb 49x6 (294) (march)
Grots x10x3 (90) (guard)
Weirboy x2 (124) (guard)
Bigmek,sag relic (80) (guard)
Bigmek,kff (75) (dajump to support dredds)
Mekgun smashas x4 (124) (guard)
--------====----
Reserves 911
Total 1999
Cp 9 (6 used for telyports)

ill let you guys think whats the best way to separate these into the spearhead and battalion and what kultures to use.

deff dreads evil sun at least along with grots. Ditto gorkanaut. Rest could be spearhead(well HQ's different as well). For spearhead clan iwth these I would likely go with dethskull to get that for SAG. Not much that benefits from bad moons here. Maybe morkanaut.

tneva82 wrote:
deff dreads evil sun at least along with grots. Ditto gorkanaut. Rest could be spearhead(well HQ's different as well). For spearhead clan iwth these I would likely go with dethskull to get that for SAG. Not much that benefits from bad moons here. Maybe morkanaut.

hmm, maybe have sag bigmek as freebooter so he can get a better bs when a mekgun inevitably kills something?

geargutz wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
deff dreads evil sun at least along with grots. Ditto gorkanaut. Rest could be spearhead(well HQ's different as well). For spearhead clan iwth these I would likely go with dethskull to get that for SAG. Not much that benefits from bad moons here. Maybe morkanaut.

hmm, maybe have sag bigmek as freebooter so he can get a better bs when a mekgun inevitably kills something?

Could be but that still averages only bit more than 1 extra hit compared to death skull and death skull provides reroll to wound and to damage as well. Plus 6++ and objective secured.

I was thinking about slotting in the relic SAG with the Loota star battlion. With 2 D6 shots reroll ones become a little more valuable.

Question: Do you think you need to reroll the strength and shots if you double shoot a SAG??

2d6 shot\s isn\t that much that you would reliably roll 2 or more 1's and deth skull rolls 1 ANY miss. You won't always roll even one 1 to reroll with bad moon. Albeit lootas are good so it's worth having worse SAG to get better lootas.

As for rolling them again(wouldn't think it's worth...) that\s yes you need to roll again. xd6 something are usually for phase but for attacks they are for attack. Lootas have definite exception for it but no such exception for SAG.

So I tried koptas in pairs with KMB and the Deathskulls Klan. For 2 shots, you get:

Miss: 30%
1 hit: 37%
2 hits: 21%
3 hits: 10%
4 hits: 2%

Not bad! However, with KMB and all those rerolls and additional shots, you will get quite a few Gets Hot results. But with 4 wounds each, depending on which kopta got the mortal wound, that’s not so bad. They were pretty nice. I’ll try them again in pairs.

Is taking 150 boyz to many? seems orks are all over the place and i want an all comers list. something like 2 battalions, 180 boyz, 2 warboss, 2 weirdboy, then fill with grots..?

Played a wierd 5x5 game. Meganobz and boyz were great. Kommandoes were also quite useful. Boyz even managed to hit something with a tankbusta bomb!
1v1 was basically won by turn 2 due to 1st turn charge and 2d turn meganob bomb also making it into combat. But than sw termies with 2 characters and a gk landraider came along. In the end 1367 pt of orks managed to kill like 2k pts of enemies and still had something left on the table.
Twas funny when 2 smashas overwatched a sw termie lord to death after 2 turns of doing absolutely nothing to castellan robots.

hi, i want to make some deffkopta but as airplanes...
i'm thinking to wings of glory airplanes, maybe with a gretchin inside if possible... what do you think?
do you have some alternatives to deffkopta?

I've been seen little orky spitfires. Mine will be balloons.

I wanted to do little StormHawks-style motorcycle-planes, but that never came to fruition for me. Maybe it'd work for you?

 deffrekka wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
hmm...anyone got any thoughts on the specialist detachments for orks, from the new vigilus defiant book?

My ratings would be:

Stompa Mob: Shocker, this rating. Amazingly, taking 3k points of garbage to get very very small buffs does not a solid list make.

Kult of Speed: The special relic gives approximately equal durability to the deffkilla as does the Supa-Cybork, and when combined with the toughness warlord trait that stacks with it (ard as nails, in this case) it gives less durability than the Supa-Cybork combo of the 4++ Bad Moonz trait. The warlord trait is very situational. The only thing that's really worth it is the stratagem, making a 100% guaranteed charge of anything on the board for a speed freek unit. However, we basically have guaranteed turn 1 charges with plenty of stuff, so I don't know if it's worth a total of 3cp. I'll be leaving this one at home even when I play my speed freek army.

Dred Mob: here's where we start getting into the usable stuff. Deathskullz in particular love this one. I can also see it being worth it for Freebootas or Bad Moonz. Waiting for the FAQ to confirm whether it allows kan mobz to shoot twice, that'd be really nice. The only real "womp womp" here is that one of the two stratagems you get for your pricy buy-in detachment involves the craptastic mek shop....

Blitz Brigade: Here's what I'll be using with my speed freeks list! Say, have you ever wanted to have practically your entire army in range to charge turn 1? Take one of these with Rezmekkkas Redder Armor and the Backseat Driver trait and you'll have your Da Jumped squad, your Bonebreaka, Your Hang On Boyz'd squad, and your Deffkilla Wartrike+any warbikes in range to charge. This detachment gets real goofy real fast. The whole gunwagon+battlewagon combo thing isn't even that bad, I paid a CP for a mini-mek to have the blitz shouta and put it in a battlewagon filled with tankbustas next to an empty gunwagon, and they provided some solid backline firepower.

Your Hang On Boyz'd squad wont be able to charge turn 1 sadly, might aswell bring up some bustas so they can actualy do something the turn they hang on and not just stand there picking flowers. Also only a WARBOSS may take the Blitz Shouta, as he is the ONLY character to gain the Blitz Brigade Keyword, not any other character. Warbosses, Battlewagons, Gunwagons and Bonebreakas. The relic requires a BLITZ BRIGADE CHARACTER, the minimek does not have the keyword. He may be in the specialist detachment but he doesnt get the keyword. Just GW bad rules writing for you. So the warboss will have the shouta and the mek the redder armour.

Its the same with our Kult of Speed, it only includes SPEED FREEKS, but Kult of Speeds in the past have had planes and trukk boys that form it.... so i dont view many of the specialist detachments to be that good.

Stompa Mob cant be used in standard games, Dread Waaagh is ok for a bad moons shokk attack Big Mek and a Gorka/Morka, Kult of Speed just makes one squad of Warbikes quicker which they are already quick as it is and Blitz Brigade is only good for evil sunz bonebreakas.

As with all the Vigalus specialist detachments (my guard make use of them) you should only take them if the army you run already has units that would take advantage of the extra rules. I run a brigade and battalion of evil sunz with two defftrikes anyway so the speed freak extras serve me well. An evil sunz defftrike with T8 and 5++ has a threat range of 44". ((14"+2")x2) + 2d6" (3d6" and mortal wounds if you use ramming speed). Making a beeline for a knight and either fight twice or fight after death would take a fair few wounds off a knight. 2d6" consolidation could tie up another tank too...

Ashkayel wrote:
About KMB Lone Koptas with Deathskullz Klan Kultur, I wasn’t that impressed. Only one shot each doesn’t get enough hits. Next time I will try them in pairs, or solo but with kopta rokkits instead of KMB.

I tried them. 3x single kopta with kopta rockits and i must say that i was surprised. together with dakkadakka they are really dangerous. There were times i had 2 or even 3 hits with the 2 rockit shots . I used them vs space wolf thunderwolf cavalry i think. 3W, 3+invulsv. So every failed invulsave was a expensive model removed. I was very happy with that result (the wolfs not so)

I woudn't use them in pairs. You make the most of the culture in single models because the amount of rerolls you get.

Didn't we all agree to migrate to the new Thread here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/767149.page

The OP is more active, and has a fully updated unit analysis on the first page.