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 Grimskul wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
I don't play orks but i am curious: Did they buff up Thrakka to the point he can fight guilleman evenly or not? I'd heard ork players wanting their own guilliman on the form of a buffed thrakka, I wondered if they got him.

No hes the exact same but about 20 points more expensive now.

You forgot he has the best WL trait in the Ork codex....+1 attack! Ol' Guilly's screwed in the knickers now! /s

Ghazzy hasn't changed at all except being slightly more pricey, but more importantly he's got the Goffs Kultur which can give him a few more shots in, and with support from Fists of Gork he can really lay down the smack on Guilly more than before. Even if Guilly manages to slice him up before he gets to kill him, the stratagem that allows him to fight one more time before dying is helpful.

I don't know about Ghaz but I kicked BobbyG over with a DS Goff Gork last game I played XD

*EDIT, btw he got up, took three mortal wounds from an exploding gork next turn, assaulted Ghaz, and managed to whiff and die again.*

 Redbeard wrote:
I've no idea about the power side of things anymore. But, from a model and lack-of-rules perspective, I have to say, I'm massively disappointed.

Orphans (not necessarily orphaned this codex, but orphaned recently enough):

Mega-armour boss
KFF Mek
Warboss on Bike
Nob w/ Banner and Powerklaw (The most recent model I'm aware of even has a powerklaw)
Nob w/ banner on Bike
Pain Boy on Bike
Wartrakks
Buggies
Skorchas
Kannons
Lobbas
ZZap Guns
Wazdakka - mentioned, but no rules.
Trukks w/ Rokkits.

FFS, I've got a 2000 point army of models that aren't even given an entry in this codex. Easily.

No Looted vehicle rules (again)
Burnas are only half as effective as every other flamer in the game (still)


The new models are great a stand-alone kits, but come on, we're ork players here. The heads aren't even interchangeable with other kits, something that's been consistent for years. And no options. Every dragster gets the same stuff, every squigbuggy gets the same stuff. Totally non-orky.

And from a game-play perspective, I don't care how cool the gun your put on an ork buggy is, it's still one roll from dying and probably not hitting its target. Buggies worked because they were expendable, and priced appropriately. These new cars all seem overpriced for their durability.

Too much entry-bloat. Same as they did with the planes. You could have had one entry for ork planes, and detailed what options they can take, but instead, there's four different plane entries, each one superficially different. Now we get the same thing with the buggies. This is what orphaned all our existing models.

Imagine if they were all just called buggies, and you could pick your options - jump motor, rokkits, rivvet cannon, etc. And if the kits had been designed so you could swap the wheels, the motors, the crew, the weapon mounts. These kits are nice, but I feel like it's just a huge wasted opportunity.

This guy gets it.

As much as i love the codex the options missing just feel so corporate, greedy and skummy.... I remember mo ths ago I listed everything we would lose and (apart from kopta rokkits) I was correct and even missed a few. People outright told me I was over reacting and they wouldn't be stupid enough to do that...

Not even the models, the options themselves (no rokkit trukks for example). Just leaves a sour taste in my mouth for what genuinely is a codex that had a lot of effort put into it. But just feels like the guy handed this in and marketing (like an imperial inquisitor) just put black lines through anything they might lose money on. Even if this wasn't the case, it feels like it was and that's what matters.

In a time where games are constantly squeezing every penny they can get out of us this stuff really shines bright when normally we would have just ignored it. And with the indexs slowly being discontinued and (from the looks of things) might be moved to open play I really don't know what to say. For now, I'm going to keep using the index for as long as I can.

What would fix this is if GW brought out 1 book with all the missing models and options in for every faction. A legacy book that they outright say can be used in match play and tournaments. But, even then, we would be paying extra for something we should have already been given.

Again, really like the codex overall but that doesn't mean I don't have valid criticisms and suggestions for GW.

Write to GW's FAQ email and let them know they've done a bad job.

I like the Ork Codex overall, but the lack of options, the lack of encouragement for kitbashing / conversion (no section on it, unlike the 4th ed book) and some really stupid pricing choices (ok, so the spanna in the burna boyz and the loota squads are the exact same, but loota spannas cost more. Why?) is frustrating.

Tank busta bombz on boyz though!

That's a gain?

minimal conversions sucks (you can still do Mek gunz and BWs, among others) and missing some index only options sucks. But I feel like we have a lot of options list wise. Its actually hard for me to write a list I like because theres so many cool things I want to bring but cant because of points. I think lack of options is not an issue here

Truk Kannons are a great plus for Orks but other armies might complain. Hitting automatically is not Ork-like. A friend said they are operated by Grots. Seems like a poor explanation.

nareik wrote:
Tank busta bombz on boyz though!

That's a gain?

Oh yay, we get to have 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 boyz.
In the meantime, we lost mega armored warboss, a generic big mek that can take a KFF without wearing mega armor, rokkits on trukks, powerklaws on tankbusta nobs, cybork body on warboss, various bike options for HQs, and a bunch of other stuff I can't bother listing.

I've noticed Orks have very much become a glass cannon army. If by turn 2 you haven't won the game then give up.

Still in index.

The tank busta bombs go someway toward explaining the extra 10 points per ten orks, though.

I see a lot of 'boyz got more expensive and gained nothing'' which isn't true.

 Xenomancers wrote:

English we get you waited a long time for this codex and it is your times to shine. Nothing in this is going to be nerfed so you don't need to defend.

There is no need to ignore the fact the codex is over buffed though.

Except the codex isn't overbuffed, someone said it earlier, the good things got nerfed and the bad things got a buff. The problem is that the only reason the Ork index was holding its own against anyone was because Boyz were doing the heavy lifting at 6ppm. Now they are 7ppm and EVERY competitive list i've seen so far has 30-60 boyz at most and the rest of the troop choices are taken by grotz because its better to get 30pts of grotz and some CP than it is to get 210pts of Ork boyz.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Boys are much better at 7 points with their current rules than they were in the index. There is no denying that.

Yes there is denying that, and easily. Without klan kultures, just taking into account DDD, Boyz are now WORSE point for point at shooting Marines than in the Index. Add in every kulture and its still true except for Bad Moonz. Same thing for Close combat, we got worse in CC except for Goffs who stayed about the same because they basically get DDD in CC as well. Every other Klan just gives the boyz more durability....ish. Which averages out to be about 16.6% better....or another way to view that is that it matches the points increase. SO badmoons are better Points for Point in shooting than before, Goffs are about equal in close combat and Snakebites and Deff Skullz are worse in everyway except in durability where they are now equal to where they were in the index.

 sfshilo wrote:
This is the strongest codex so far and it's going to pan out in the ITC circuit.

An already decent index army got totally pimped out. Glad there is an "opt out of combat" option in the ITC rules, figuring out 30+ models worth of dice will be a pain lol.

The only unit in the index that was doing anything was the Ork Boyz (and a few characters/HQs). So that unit got nerfed and the crap units got slight buffs...some didn't get anything *Cough Lootas *cough.

 sfshilo wrote:


Orks won major events without a codex. We are able to READ and do some pretty simple math to understand how good this codex is.

This codex will have to be nerfed, it is as good meta wise as the 7th ed Tau codex. Which EVERYONE told me was not overpowered just like you are saying now about this ork codex.

A simple test is just the power level. Nearly every 2000 point list I make is clocking in at 120 power level........that is nuts.

The only Major event I can think of where Orkz won was the london GT or whatever where every game only went until the top of turn 2 or maybe into turn 3 because the ork player slow played like hell. Go figure a hore army wins if the opponent only gets 2 turns to remove the entire horde from the board.

I have NO idea where this "Will have to be nerfed" nonsense comes from. Orkz have 1 build that is competitive and 1 that is fluffy/competitive. the competitive build is Codex: Deep Strike. have over half your army appear turn 2 in charge range (Evil Sunz only), that is going to be pretty damned hard to counter...ohh wait no its not, Cheap infantry screens are a thing for most armies. The fluffy/competitive build is going to be Evil Sunz as well, and its just going to be buggies/bikes/trukkz/wagonz rushing up the field turn 1 at full tilt and than hoping to get close enough to assault turn 1 so they don't get blasted off the table. You compare that to 7th Edition Tau which just brought 3+ Riptides and spent the game in a corner shooting everything off the table...... NO.

nareik wrote:
Tank busta bombz on boyz though!

That's a gain?

30pt increase for a full boyz unit, but hey, at 6' range they can chuck a single Tank Busta bomb right? This does borderline nothing for the unit and is so niche as to not matter in 90% of the cases.



This codex is alright, its a improvement on the Index but that isn't saying much since our index was a gigantic pile of crap except for Boyz and a few buffing characters. I was fairly sad when I saw lootas were still garbage and my beloved warbikes didn't get any buff at all except to drop 4ppm, personally I think Warbikes should be back down to 18ppm but I would have settled for 20. 23 is still way to much for a T5 model with a 4+ save and 2 wounds. At least in 7th they had a borderline invuln save with Jink which you could buff to a 3+

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

nareik wrote:
Tank busta bombz on boyz though!

That's a gain?

Oh yay, we get to have 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 boyz.
In the meantime, we lost mega armored warboss, a generic big mek that can take a KFF without wearing mega armor, rokkits on trukks, powerklaws on tankbusta nobs, cybork body on warboss, various bike options for HQs, and a bunch of other stuff I can't bother listing.

Still in the Index, dude.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

nareik wrote:
Tank busta bombz on boyz though!

That's a gain?

Oh yay, we get to have 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 boyz.
In the meantime, we lost mega armored warboss, a generic big mek that can take a KFF without wearing mega armor, rokkits on trukks, powerklaws on tankbusta nobs, cybork body on warboss, various bike options for HQs, and a bunch of other stuff I can't bother listing.

Still in the Index, dude.

Doesn't matter, still stupid.
I shouldn't have to use two books to use an options that were in the codex for years before GW got butt-hurt from not getting their way over chapterhouse, and its bloody stupid how in the codex there's a "Big Mek in Mega Armor" followed by a "Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun" but no "Big Mek"
It would be like there was an "Overlord with Hyperphase Sword" option and a "Overlord with Voidscythe" option but no "Overlord". Its dumb, it doesn't make sense, and GW's legal team are gits.

Orks are the 21st Codex released for 8th Edition. The only ones to lack this issue are the ones so young at to not actually have any out of production models, like Adeptus Custodes, Harlequins, and Imperial Knights. Even the brand new Death Guard and Thousand Sons Codexes managed to leave off old options that no longer exist on in-production kits.

Complaining about this is like complaining about the weather. It was inevitable and totally expected by anyone paying even the least amount of attention to the codex releases. Why can't you Ork players let it go?

 alextroy wrote:
Orks are the 21st Codex released for 8th Edition. The only ones to lack this issue are the ones so young at to not actually have any out of production models, like Adeptus Custodes, Harlequins, and Imperial Knights. Even the brand new Death Guard and Thousand Sons Codexes managed to leave off old options that no longer exist on in-production kits.

Complaining about this is like complaining about the weather. It was inevitable and totally expected by anyone paying even the least amount of attention to the codex releases. Why can't you Ork players let it go?

Come back when you spent time on money on miniatures that were valid for several editions, including the last one, only for them to be gone from the codex for no good reason other than legal nonsense.
Kitbashing used to be a thing, and the Orks had an emphasis on it. You can make a big mek from a nob and bits from the mega armor kit, you can make a mega armored warboss from the AoS megaboss boss kit and some other bits. Hell, in the 4th edition codex there was a section on kitbashing and personalizing your orks.
GW used to support that aspect of the hobby, which was a beautiful thing and now you're telling me to let that go?
gaking on your old fan base because of new blood is not smart.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Orks are the 21st Codex released for 8th Edition. The only ones to lack this issue are the ones so young at to not actually have any out of production models, like Adeptus Custodes, Harlequins, and Imperial Knights. Even the brand new Death Guard and Thousand Sons Codexes managed to leave off old options that no longer exist on in-production kits.

Complaining about this is like complaining about the weather. It was inevitable and totally expected by anyone paying even the least amount of attention to the codex releases. Why can't you Ork players let it go?

Come back when you spent time on money on miniatures that were valid for several editions, including the last one, only for them to be gone from the codex for no good reason other than legal nonsense.
Kitbashing used to be a thing, and the Orks had an emphasis on it. You can make a big mek from a nob and bits from the mega armor kit, you can make a mega armored warboss from the AoS megaboss boss kit and some other bits. Hell, in the 4th edition codex there was a section on kitbashing and personalizing your orks.
GW used to support that aspect of the hobby, which was a beautiful thing and now you're telling me to let that go?
gaking on your old fan base because of new blood is not smart.

Well... they don't produce a mini so they don't update the rules for it. I don't know of a game company creating rules for models they won't produce. It seems rather fair (and not a new trend, it has been happening way before chapter house drama, not on this scale though, I agree) unless we expect them to make rules for every single model they ever produced and this until they go out of business. Which is a bit unreasonable imho.
And if you love kit bashing and converting, I'm sure you'll find a use for these models

dhallnet wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Orks are the 21st Codex released for 8th Edition. The only ones to lack this issue are the ones so young at to not actually have any out of production models, like Adeptus Custodes, Harlequins, and Imperial Knights. Even the brand new Death Guard and Thousand Sons Codexes managed to leave off old options that no longer exist on in-production kits.

Complaining about this is like complaining about the weather. It was inevitable and totally expected by anyone paying even the least amount of attention to the codex releases. Why can't you Ork players let it go?

Come back when you spent time on money on miniatures that were valid for several editions, including the last one, only for them to be gone from the codex for no good reason other than legal nonsense.
Kitbashing used to be a thing, and the Orks had an emphasis on it. You can make a big mek from a nob and bits from the mega armor kit, you can make a mega armored warboss from the AoS megaboss boss kit and some other bits. Hell, in the 4th edition codex there was a section on kitbashing and personalizing your orks.
GW used to support that aspect of the hobby, which was a beautiful thing and now you're telling me to let that go?
gaking on your old fan base because of new blood is not smart.

Well... they don't produce a mini so they don't update the rules for it. I don't know of a game company creating rules for models they won't produce. It seems rather fair (and not a new trend, it has been happening way before chapter house drama, not on this scale though, I agree) unless we expect them to make rules for every single model they ever produced and this until they go out of business. Which is a bit unreasonable imho.
And if you love kit bashing and converting, I'm sure you'll find a use for these models

Didn't stop them for the last few editions. There was no mega armored warboss model in 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th, nor any bike characters. Apparently the reason why they didn't make them is because they expected ork players to make them themselves.
They could have made one now, but no, that would have been hard.
Also, did all these other game companies have an emphasis on converting for some 20 years?

 alextroy wrote:
Orks are the 21st Codex released for 8th Edition. The only ones to lack this issue are the ones so young at to not actually have any out of production models, like Adeptus Custodes, Harlequins, and Imperial Knights. Even the brand new Death Guard and Thousand Sons Codexes managed to leave off old options that no longer exist on in-production kits.

Complaining about this is like complaining about the weather. It was inevitable and totally expected by anyone paying even the least amount of attention to the codex releases. Why can't you Ork players let it go?

This is like saying "complaining about Loot Boxes is like complaining about the whether". This is what I was told until governments are finally looked into it and mading it illegal (meaning all our hard work and complaining is paying off)... If we do continue to kick up a fuss about it then maybe people will finally stop sticking up for GW (who honestly just care about money and would happily walk into your home and steal your wallet if they were allowed too) and realise this was a crappy move and then GW might eventually themselves realise it's a crappy move. If we don't keep on about it then there will be no one to regulate it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dhallnet wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Orks are the 21st Codex released for 8th Edition. The only ones to lack this issue are the ones so young at to not actually have any out of production models, like Adeptus Custodes, Harlequins, and Imperial Knights. Even the brand new Death Guard and Thousand Sons Codexes managed to leave off old options that no longer exist on in-production kits.

Complaining about this is like complaining about the weather. It was inevitable and totally expected by anyone paying even the least amount of attention to the codex releases. Why can't you Ork players let it go?

Come back when you spent time on money on miniatures that were valid for several editions, including the last one, only for them to be gone from the codex for no good reason other than legal nonsense.
Kitbashing used to be a thing, and the Orks had an emphasis on it. You can make a big mek from a nob and bits from the mega armor kit, you can make a mega armored warboss from the AoS megaboss boss kit and some other bits. Hell, in the 4th edition codex there was a section on kitbashing and personalizing your orks.
GW used to support that aspect of the hobby, which was a beautiful thing and now you're telling me to let that go?
gaking on your old fan base because of new blood is not smart.

Well... they don't produce a mini so they don't update the rules for it. I don't know of a game company creating rules for models they won't produce. It seems rather fair (and not a new trend, it has been happening way before chapter house drama, not on this scale though, I agree) unless we expect them to make rules for every single model they ever produced and this until they go out of business. Which is a bit unreasonable imho.
And if you love kit bashing and converting, I'm sure you'll find a use for these models

models like Big gunz and Buggies were still in productions and sold this year! If we don't regulate it then GW could just go "Okay... we need to boost sales before this codex. Let's just remove these models a few weeks before the codex and that gives us a reason to not write rules for it and force people to buy the new models!... Oh and while we're at it let's make this Iconic HQ everyone uses vanish and replace it with one you have to buy in a £40 box with 2 models that then become useless unless you buy another £40 box." Oh wait, they already did that. If you watch the live stream where they talk about the models that are going they always look like they're ashamed of themselves. Like the rule writers themselves don't want the models to vanish but the marketing team is forcing them....

It has nothing to do with lootboxes or whatver.
"We" are complaining about not having support for a product they don't have anymore (or even never produced at all).
A more fitting comparison since you like video games, would be to look at all the old games that aren't supported anymore and without official updates to them. If you want to play them, you have to go through the process of making them run on a modern environment by yourself and whatnot. And still, everyone does it.

Here you have a mini not produced anymore or that have never been, but still having rules compatible for the current edition but it's not good enough somehow. Just use the index or update its rules yourself. Or, since everyone loves converting it seems, make changes to the mini to use it in another role or whatever.

A mini isn't a car or such, you shouldn't be expecting support decades after it (even though it's nice of course) and when you get rid of something, there is always a point where it was still available yesterday. They can't erase support from history.
And we are already constantly buying new stuff to "replace" old stuff.

To be clear : I love having rules for old minis. I can't blame them for not making them though. And yes, it's a business move but still.

I think it's entirely reasonable to consider opportunity costs in evaluation of a new product.

If you only get a new codex once every five years (or more), then any missed opportunity is disappointing.

To be clear, we're not the imperium. There is no god-emperor telling us that rhinos may only ever have storm bolters, or tech priests going through centuries of approvals before being allowed to modify the divinely sanctioned sponson-weapon of a land raider.

Like I said about the new cars, they're awesome stand-alone models, but they're crap for converting, and even if I put the effort in to swap out the guns, we're playing a WYSIWYG game, so I can't just swap main guns, I have to move everything - or end up with a model that people will complain about. It's a huge missed opportunity, and feels like a misfire from a company that not too long ago loved to point out how they included options on sprues so we could mix stuff up.

Even the kits with options have lost the ability to mix them up. Want a plane with three pairs of guns and one bomb? You get the parts to build it, but it's not legal. Mork and Gork would never allow that!

So, yeah, we get a mix of aspect warrior squads (every model in the unit gets the same gun, like burnas/lootas) and imperial standard-template vehicles, and lost what made orks different.

I don't understand how this is a business move, unless you assume all customers are the same, and I think history shows that's not true. I have little motivation to buy more new cars, because I can't really do much else with them.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

nareik wrote:
Tank busta bombz on boyz though!

That's a gain?

Oh yay, we get to have 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 boyz.
In the meantime, we lost mega armored warboss, a generic big mek that can take a KFF without wearing mega armor, rokkits on trukks, powerklaws on tankbusta nobs, cybork body on warboss, various bike options for HQs, and a bunch of other stuff I can't bother listing.

Still in the Index, dude.

Doesn't matter, still stupid.
I shouldn't have to use two books to use an options that were in the codex for years before GW got butt-hurt from not getting their way over chapterhouse, and its bloody stupid how in the codex there's a "Big Mek in Mega Armor" followed by a "Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun" but no "Big Mek"
It would be like there was an "Overlord with Hyperphase Sword" option and a "Overlord with Voidscythe" option but no "Overlord with warscythe". Its dumb, it doesn't make sense, and GW's legal team are gits.

I'm not saying I disagree that needing two publications is stupid, but most of us went into 8th with the Index bought in the first place. As long we have that, we are okay I think.

We just need to fight GW in making sure they get updated. Us complaining here won't get my Chaos Steed HQ dudes to benefit from Legion rules, but enough of us complaining to their actual rules team might.

The new buggies annoy me... They gave us way more than I asked for but at the same time gave me no reason (other than the speed freaks box (which i did buy)) to buy them. Honestly, I'd love a squig buggy but I'd also love a War Trike Boss. I only really buy 1 model every few months so when it came to it I obviously got the triker boss. I should be torn between the two but I just went "well that's an obvious pick".

Models themselves are fantastic and a year down the line I might buy it (because I enjoy the model side more than the gaming a lot of the time) but right now they gave me no reason to go out and grab it day 1. And a 150pts is weirdly out of place... especially as the other buggies are all about 100 and the new wagon is 120 at base cost. Do I bring a 150 model that might be useful in a very specific circumstance? Or a 120 pts model i can 30 points of weapons onto, be just as effecting, higher T and double the wounds?

I know all this sounds like more complaining but I'm a believer that continued criticism and harsh peer review always leads to a better product.

Its a bit odd GW don't produce "official" kit bashes, here are the stats, here are the official instructions telling you which kits you need.

Perhaps even making a box that produces "a", "b" & "c" from spures taken from "x", "y" & "z".

would seem to cover the "no model" requirement, well yes here is one, made 100% from our parts.

given they have even made conversion frames before that route would work very well for orks.

Say a "Kommando" conversion frame, backpacks, heads, maybe a couple of arms - that can be put in a box with the boyz frames (perhaps with the command frame removed and being replaced by this one)

leopard wrote:
Its a bit odd GW don't produce "official" kit bashes, here are the stats, here are the official instructions telling you which kits you need.

Perhaps even making a box that produces "a", "b" & "c" from spures taken from "x", "y" & "z".

would seem to cover the "no model" requirement, well yes here is one, made 100% from our parts.

given they have even made conversion frames before that route would work very well for orks.

Say a "Kommando" conversion frame, backpacks, heads, maybe a couple of arms - that can be put in a box with the boyz frames (perhaps with the command frame removed and being replaced by this one)

This is a company that took down Table Top Simulator mods that let you play with digital 40k figures. Honestly, the negative press alone was way higher on that than any lost sales.

 lolman1c wrote:

This is like saying "complaining about Loot Boxes is like complaining about the whether". This is what I was told until governments are finally looked into it and mading it illegal (meaning all our hard work and complaining is paying off)... If we do continue to kick up a fuss about it then maybe people will finally stop sticking up for GW (who honestly just care about money and would happily walk into your home and steal your wallet if they were allowed too) and realise this was a crappy move and then GW might eventually themselves realise it's a crappy move. If we don't keep on about it then there will be no one to regulate it!

Greetings Citizen.
We heard that you filed some complaint that made us suspect you are no longer an Happy Consumer (TM) and therefore dangerous for the society.
Please follow us in the re-education camp where you will be re-introduced to the endless pleasures of non-conscious consuming.
You have 30 seconds to comply.

Those upset about losing options (that you can still use) and not being able to customise stuff should have lived through the 2nd to 3rd transition. Whole ORK armies were invalidated over night. Never mind 2000 points of stuff you can’t use (but can), my whole army made no sense any more after 3rd came in.

The new models are lovely, the rules good an quirky, and the wheels can be swapped about and you can do conversions, they just have to be conversions not head swaps. Use a bot of modelling skill and imagination.

leopard wrote:
Its a bit odd GW don't produce "official" kit bashes, here are the stats, here are the official instructions telling you which kits you need.

Perhaps even making a box that produces "a", "b" & "c" from spures taken from "x", "y" & "z".

would seem to cover the "no model" requirement, well yes here is one, made 100% from our parts.

given they have even made conversion frames before that route would work very well for orks.

Say a "Kommando" conversion frame, backpacks, heads, maybe a couple of arms - that can be put in a box with the boyz frames (perhaps with the command frame removed and being replaced by this one)

See, this is what I thought GW was actually going to do quite awhile back with their buggies and trukks. It turned out to be only wishful thinking.

Unfortunately, no matter how cool an ork vehicle looks it is just odd to have another one in your army just like it. A fleet of identical Rhinos looks great; identical slapdash buggies just look wrong. Every makeshift repair and bolted on plate is in the exact spot? Umm...

If they had made 2-3 chassis with 3-4 wheel pairings and a few options for motors, side panels, windshields, weapons, etc. they could have made any true ork fan very happy. Now they can't even make multi-pose soldiers. A huge part of the appeal of the hobby is being overlooked by the bean counters.

Andykp wrote:
Those upset about losing options (that you can still use) and not being able to customise stuff should have lived through the 2nd to 3rd transition. Whole ORK armies were invalidated over night. Never mind 2000 points of stuff you can’t use (but can), my whole army made no sense any more after 3rd came in.

So, in your opinion, because something sucky isn't quite as sucky as your prior experience, we should all be grateful? You're just the sort of customer GW likes - you've been fed a s--t sandwich so often, you've forgotten what's in it, and are just happy that it's warm and fresh.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Truk Kannons are a great plus for Orks but other armies might complain. Hitting automatically is not Ork-like. A friend said they are operated by Grots. Seems like a poor explanation.

The traktor kannon is specialized gear against few targets. It's okay vs dark eldars and eldars to have a few to force them to spread around but for creating damage it's actually smasha gun you want. More hits per point even vs -1 to hit. Traktor kannon becomes good against -2 targets but those aren't that common that you would want to go full on traktor kannons. It's niche weapon. Smasha gun is the main deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

nareik wrote:
Tank busta bombz on boyz though!

That's a gain?

Oh yay, we get to have 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 boyz.
In the meantime, we lost mega armored warboss, a generic big mek that can take a KFF without wearing mega armor, rokkits on trukks, powerklaws on tankbusta nobs, cybork body on warboss, various bike options for HQs, and a bunch of other stuff I can't bother listing.

Still in the Index, dude.

a) for how long
b) already illegal for many

tneva82 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Truk Kannons are a great plus for Orks but other armies might complain. Hitting automatically is not Ork-like. A friend said they are operated by Grots. Seems like a poor explanation.

The traktor kannon is specialized gear against few targets. It's okay vs dark eldars and eldars to have a few to force them to spread around but for creating damage it's actually smasha gun you want. More hits per point even vs -1 to hit. Traktor kannon becomes good against -2 targets but those aren't that common that you would want to go full on traktor kannons. It's niche weapon. Smasha gun is the main deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

nareik wrote:
Tank busta bombz on boyz though!

That's a gain?

Oh yay, we get to have 1 tankbusta bomb per 10 boyz.
In the meantime, we lost mega armored warboss, a generic big mek that can take a KFF without wearing mega armor, rokkits on trukks, powerklaws on tankbusta nobs, cybork body on warboss, various bike options for HQs, and a bunch of other stuff I can't bother listing.

Still in the Index, dude.

a) for how long
b) already illegal for many

Only illegal for those strictly following ETC and nobody has the balls to challenge them on their stance for Index or FW.

Otherwise these ARE core rules. ETC is a homebrew for losing core rules.