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Hey fellas! I am asking this question for a friend who is thinking of starting up with myself and co.

Any idea on how much ££ they cost as an army, of course its subjective, but are they a very elite army or, or if they require alot of models on the table.

Also, are they similar to DE in playstyle?

Thanks again fellas


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: or are they still as they were, a niche army to add to existing space elfs

Most of the time they tend to be taken as a detachment with other Eldar, but they are viable as a mono-codex army. They just don't have a ton of different unit selections. For cost they are fairly reasonable I guess? Not a ton of models on the table. If I we're starting up a 2000pt pure Harlequin army from scratch, retail from GW would be roughly $800 USD. If you have a specific build with little to no extra models, and get discounted stuff could maybe get to 2000pts with $500 USD.

DE play a few different ways, so tough to say they play exactly like them.

Quins do need to get a lot of work done in the first 2 turns, if you don't hurt or cripple your opponent enough early on then they won't last long enough to win the mission. They are fast, have tricks, and are mainly an in-your-face army. Can struggle against monsters but rip through vehicles well.

Thankyou very much dude. Summed it up nicely, having looked they have some great models, just not a great amount. Seems better to go with them as an attachment.

Appreciate the help. The cost was surprisingly low also, considering the expense of all the models.

I play them fairly often as a mono-codex. Tell your friend to be prepared to lose a lot of games, especially against competent gun-lines.

The army was fairly expensive to build as their fairly low points for what they do. My initial investment was 6-5 Man boxes of players, 3 Transports, three gunship version of the transports, 1 seer, 1 solitaire and 3 death jester.

The recent FAQ changes have really, really hurt the army, and be advised it is likely impossible to win when fighting knights with this faction.

Why on earth is it impossible to beat IKs?

A 5-player squad with caresses and great harlequin support does 5.7 damage in CC.

A 4-bike Haywire squad drops over 6 MWs on one.

a 5-player squad with fusion pistols does 3.7 if the knight rotates to 4++.

That's 15 damage from 2 units, what's this 'impossible' rhetoric about?

Harlequins can do alright against Knights, if you Haywire up.

Funny enough, I think the 8th Edition close combat rules just don't serve them well, as Harlequins tend to be a "MSU close combat army" that relies on bringing multiple units and buffing characters into a fight to work.

The close combat interrupt stratagem is the bane of their existence, as you fight with one unit or character, and than that Knight Gallant or 20 Genestealer unit or whatever gets to interrupt and slaughter everything you charged in with. IMO, they desperately need a Vextor Mask/Armour of Russ/Mass Hypnosis-style ability to work.

Moreover, "trapping" units in close combat to avoid being shot at (a staple of cc armies in 8th) is something Harlequins struggle with, as even "harmless" units like Guardsman or Cultists can kill a Harlequin or two, if you're making a point of not killing too much initially. And your units aren't large.

Also, as noted, Harlequins have a tendency to bounce off high Toughness targets that aren't vehicles. Mortarion, Daemon Princes, Old One Eye, Hive Tyrants, Custodes Bike Squads, etc.., etc..

All of which is why allies with Doom, mass poison, Agents of Vect against that interrupt, maybe a Vexator Mask-&-Grotesque-star as anchor for your army, etc.. help out Harlequins a lot.

Ye, I agree gun line armies can be a up hill battle at times. But pure IK armies, they are not as hard at all. With haywire bikes + starweaver units etc (depends how you run them and other tricks), I would rather play against knights than a lot of other armies.

I can't help on cost I bought a lot of that are now out of production boxes ages ago (Death masque etc) and built from there. However, I can say even with lack of options this is a fun army to play and has a lot of tricks to use if you want advanced play etc.

 grouchoben wrote:
Why on earth is it impossible to beat IKs?

A 5-player squad with caresses and great harlequin support does 5.7 damage in CC.

A 4-bike Haywire squad drops over 6 MWs on one.

a 5-player squad with fusion pistols does 3.7 if the knight rotates to 4++.

That's 15 damage from 2 units, what's this 'impossible' rhetoric about?

One issue you run into is that for example getting into h2h is preeeeetty hard with FAQ. There's line of chaff front of the knights. You clear them, you are then in the open ready to be blasted by the enemy army. Ditto with fusion pistols. Presumably that 3.7 is if you get into half range. Guess what? There's chaff in there.

And mono harlies have trouble with chaff clearing due to army size.

tneva82 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Why on earth is it impossible to beat IKs?

A 5-player squad with caresses and great harlequin support does 5.7 damage in CC.

A 4-bike Haywire squad drops over 6 MWs on one.

a 5-player squad with fusion pistols does 3.7 if the knight rotates to 4++.

That's 15 damage from 2 units, what's this 'impossible' rhetoric about?

One issue you run into is that for example getting into h2h is preeeeetty hard with FAQ. There's line of chaff front of the knights. You clear them, you are then in the open ready to be blasted by the enemy army. Ditto with fusion pistols. Presumably that 3.7 is if you get into half range. Guess what? There's chaff in there.

And mono harlies have trouble with chaff clearing due to army size.

H2H is not that good period (your enemy can fall back, and if talking about a knight, unless you killing off last few wounds it's irrelevant). Harlequins excel at movement and positioning. Is all you play for. Getting over the enemy chaff with starweavers or moving around with units or hugging terrain and popping out etc etc etc


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Certain situations where in H2H is relevant obviously, but positioning and firepower + some tie-up or finishing off CC is what is key with harlies. Or going for objectives and distractions etc

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
Ye, I agree gun line armies can be a up hill battle at times. But pure IK armies, they are not as hard at all. With haywire bikes + starweaver units etc (depends how you run them and other tricks), I would rather play against knights than a lot of other armies.

I can't help on cost I bought a lot of that are now out of production boxes ages ago (Death masque etc) and built from there. However, I can say even with lack of options this is a fun army to play and has a lot of tricks to use if you want advanced play etc.

Why gunline army is so tough for Harlequins? They are hitting your Jetbike and Transport only on 4s (Space Marine / Chaos /other Eldar gunline) or 5s (IG / Tau gunlines) and those shots also need to go through 4++ save. Put up Lightening Fast Reflexes and those guns are hitting your most important jetbikes or Transports on 5s (Space Marines, IK, other Eldars) and even 6s (IG, Tau). Allying in an Craftworld small detachment with their psyker made more units to be hit on 5s or 6s. You can also use your own psyker to debuff that enemy unit with the most guns with another -1 to hit. Now that IK and Space Marine is hitting you on 6s, and that Tau Ripetide and IG Banblade cannot hit you at all.

I think Harlequins VS an gunline army, with their supersonic speed they only need to survive one round of firepower, after that they should be able to wipe out the screen with their own firepower and crush into enemy heart then it is basically gg for the gunline.

The only army I saw that ever defeated Harlequin is a Custodes army who spam their own jetbike. Their natural hitting on 2s will made their shooting coupled with all those hurricane bolters would still pretty efficient even after those to hit debuff. And their T5 / T6 , universial 2+/4++ and minimum 3W per model and their own -1 to hit banner aura, is a pretty pain for Harlequins to kill. And they have the mobility to catch up Harlequins. But that is only Custodes. Which I don't think it is a gunline army.

I play them regularly, and they get a lot of work done. I run mine with the midnight sorrow masque and everything assaults turn 2 at the latest. Their 6" pile in and consolidation moves are a real pain for most of my opponents.

As for cost, there was a box set that included them and deathwatch marines. Since it was the first place deathwatch we're available, they inundated the market with harlequins. Hit up eBay, you'll do fine

Well, I think its more a niche army to be added to a Drukhari or CW strike force.
First, you could go with battalion detachment consisting of
- Troupe Master
- Shadowseer
- 3x 5 Harlies
- 3 Starweavers.
Another option is an outrider detachment consisting of 3 small Skyweaver units and say a Shadowseer (unfortunately, there is no character on a jetbike).

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
Ye, I agree gun line armies can be a up hill battle at times. But pure IK armies, they are not as hard at all. With haywire bikes + starweaver units etc (depends how you run them and other tricks), I would rather play against knights than a lot of other armies.

I can't help on cost I bought a lot of that are now out of production boxes ages ago (Death masque etc) and built from there. However, I can say even with lack of options this is a fun army to play and has a lot of tricks to use if you want advanced play etc.

Why gunline army is so tough for Harlequins? They are hitting your Jetbike and Transport only on 4s (Space Marine / Chaos /other Eldar gunline) or 5s (IG / Tau gunlines) and those shots also need to go through 4++ save. Put up Lightening Fast Reflexes and those guns are hitting your most important jetbikes or Transports on 5s (Space Marines, IK, other Eldars) and even 6s (IG, Tau). Allying in an Craftworld small detachment with their psyker made more units to be hit on 5s or 6s. You can also use your own psyker to debuff that enemy unit with the most guns with another -1 to hit. Now that IK and Space Marine is hitting you on 6s, and that Tau Ripetide and IG Banblade cannot hit you at all.

I think Harlequins VS an gunline army, with their supersonic speed they only need to survive one round of firepower, after that they should be able to wipe out the screen with their own firepower and crush into enemy heart then it is basically gg for the gunline.

The only army I saw that ever defeated Harlequin is a Custodes army who spam their own jetbike. Their natural hitting on 2s will made their shooting coupled with all those hurricane bolters would still pretty efficient even after those to hit debuff. And their T5 / T6 , universial 2+/4++ and minimum 3W per model and their own -1 to hit banner aura, is a pretty pain for Harlequins to kill. And they have the mobility to catch up Harlequins. But that is only Custodes. Which I don't think it is a gunline army.

Do you play Harlequins or just what you have seen? from sounds you are theory hammering. Ye it sounds all good on paper, but when the dice roll. Remember harlie's are T3 and 4++, vehicles are only T5 with 6 W's etc. If custodes are only seen defeat Harlies, just your gaming group ?

GOOD Gun line armies are harder than a CC orientated army for harlies, beacuse gun lines can absorb fire or an assault and fall back and still have enough fire power to hit you with more fire (depends on army but, and will screen jump over or deploy points). Or can smash your units with an amount of shots if not out LoS etc to take you down. Close Combat orientated armies you can dance around and shoot or go into H2H with them because your clowns are ok at H2H and you can jump out and smash them with shooting and go in again with H2H and they usually don't have as much hit if they fall back with the rest of their shooting.

If objective game Harlies are always great.

Just my experience anyway. I find them a fun no matter what, for a pull out army.

They were awesome/phenomenal to paint. I run them soaring spite.

Lythrandire Biehrellian: The Deathwatch/Harlequin box talking about was Death Masque.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to emphasis the minus to hit aspect (which is a good ability, is not that great),

Only 1 unit can be targeted from lightning-fast reactions per turn, and there is a gak tone of units that give re-roll to hit, re-roll ones to hit, re-roll all, or ignore minus' (Guilliman, Cawl, Captains, Reapers, Destroyer's with destroyer protocol etc etc) and with such small wounds and Toughness etc an average gun line with a sense of how to screen and counter fast moving units can be a hard counter (which is what makes harlies fun).

 grouchoben wrote:
Why on earth is it impossible to beat IKs?

A 5-player squad with caresses and great harlequin support does 5.7 damage in CC.

A 4-bike Haywire squad drops over 6 MWs on one.

a 5-player squad with fusion pistols does 3.7 if the knight rotates to 4++.

That's 15 damage from 2 units, what's this 'impossible' rhetoric about?

Every time I've tried I get shot off the table before I can get anywhere near a knight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
Ye, I agree gun line armies can be a up hill battle at times. But pure IK armies, they are not as hard at all. With haywire bikes + starweaver units etc (depends how you run them and other tricks), I would rather play against knights than a lot of other armies.

I can't help on cost I bought a lot of that are now out of production boxes ages ago (Death masque etc) and built from there. However, I can say even with lack of options this is a fun army to play and has a lot of tricks to use if you want advanced play etc.

Why gunline army is so tough for Harlequins? They are hitting your Jetbike and Transport only on 4s (Space Marine / Chaos /other Eldar gunline) or 5s (IG / Tau gunlines) and those shots also need to go through 4++ save. Put up Lightening Fast Reflexes and those guns are hitting your most important jetbikes or Transports on 5s (Space Marines, IK, other Eldars) and even 6s (IG, Tau). Allying in an Craftworld small detachment with their psyker made more units to be hit on 5s or 6s. You can also use your own psyker to debuff that enemy unit with the most guns with another -1 to hit. Now that IK and Space Marine is hitting you on 6s, and that Tau Ripetide and IG Banblade cannot hit you at all.

I think Harlequins VS an gunline army, with their supersonic speed they only need to survive one round of firepower, after that they should be able to wipe out the screen with their own firepower and crush into enemy heart then it is basically gg for the gunline.

The only army I saw that ever defeated Harlequin is a Custodes army who spam their own jetbike. Their natural hitting on 2s will made their shooting coupled with all those hurricane bolters would still pretty efficient even after those to hit debuff. And their T5 / T6 , universial 2+/4++ and minimum 3W per model and their own -1 to hit banner aura, is a pretty pain for Harlequins to kill. And they have the mobility to catch up Harlequins. But that is only Custodes. Which I don't think it is a gunline army.

Yes, please come and try this with my 80 Fire warrior list. In rapid fire range each of my guys is throwing three shots thanks to fireblades, and if I overlap my fireblades, it's no 6 shots per fire warrior at half range. Given I will wound you on 3+, I'm not scared in the slightest.

 Togusa wrote:

Yes, please come and try this with my 80 Fire warrior list. In rapid fire range each of my guys is throwing three shots thanks to fireblades, and if I overlap my fireblades, it's no 6 shots per fire warrior at half range. Given I will wound you on 3+, I'm not scared in the slightest.

While slightly off-topic in this thread, I feel compelled to point out that you can't stack the fireblade's aura to get multiple additional shots like that. Regardless of how many fireblades auras are overlapping, it's only +1 shot.

If auras stacked that way, every custodes player would be enjoying -3 to be hit from shooting by stacking vexillas all day every day (and I'm sure many other armies have similar filth they could do with it).

Arson Fire wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Yes, please come and try this with my 80 Fire warrior list. In rapid fire range each of my guys is throwing three shots thanks to fireblades, and if I overlap my fireblades, it's no 6 shots per fire warrior at half range. Given I will wound you on 3+, I'm not scared in the slightest.

While slightly off-topic in this thread, I feel compelled to point out that you can't stack the fireblade's aura to get multiple additional shots like that. Regardless of how many fireblades auras are overlapping, it's only +1 shot.

If auras stacked that way, every custodes player would be enjoying -3 to be hit from shooting by stacking vexillas all day every day (and I'm sure many other armies have similar filth they could do with it).

Im questioning how they got through any game without their opponent going "errr what?".

I'm a 'pure' Harlies player (the other Eldar just dont float my boat) and whilst they are a lot of fun, I lose more than I win (helps that I'm not that competitive, and knew what I was getting into with the clowns!)

I dont like the Soaring Spite "clown cars with fusion" play-style, so I prefer Midnight Sorrow, and I'm relying on a *lot* of strategems, spells and movement shennanigans to go my way for an optimal performance...

...but on the occasions where the dirty tricks and cunning schemes come off? Bloody fantastic! The many lows make the highs that much sweeter!

I'd take that fire warrior list! You get no overwatch against my warlord and my harlies have a 6" pile in and consolidate move.

Bunch up for me, I love that stuff!

 Togusa wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Why on earth is it impossible to beat IKs?

A 5-player squad with caresses and great harlequin support does 5.7 damage in CC.

A 4-bike Haywire squad drops over 6 MWs on one.

a 5-player squad with fusion pistols does 3.7 if the knight rotates to 4++.

That's 15 damage from 2 units, what's this 'impossible' rhetoric about?

Every time I've tried I get shot off the table before I can get anywhere near a knight.

Why are you trying to get near a knight? Haywire has 24 inch range.

I'm not sure where the idea the Harlequins have trouble against knights comes from, if there is a army out there that is a hard counter to knights, it's Harlequins. It's practically the only reason they get allied into Drukhari and Craftworld lists, Skyweavers murder Knights and Vehicles. It's to the point I'm sorta concerned Skyweavers will get nerfed in CA in the next couple weeks because it doesn't seem like GW want Knights to have such an easy counter.

Harlequins have plenty of things they are weak against, Hordes, Monsters, some gunlines (unless you're running a Silent Shroud detatchment), but Knight and vehicles are not a weakness of theirs.

yeah... with always a -2 to hit (power or stratagem) and a 4++, 24" HWC. There is no reason you shouldnt be doing work to a knight, with their movements and survivability they also should never die easily, if you wanted too you can make them almost impossible to kill (unless they have MW bombs), up to -3/-4 to hit, 3++ and if they take a wound 2++.

Sure it takes a powers and some CP, but if thats when you need to do, you do it.

Each bike should average 1.74 wounds to a knight, I think. Knights also have a strat to get a 5+ vs mortal wounds? So even with 18 bikes you'd be unlikely to kill a knight in one round without the help of fusion etc. Also how do the bikes get a 2++?! There's nothing in the harlequin codex that allows that. One unit can be -2 to hit, one unit can have a 3++. If you dont get the first turn and cant hide the bikes, enough will die in the first turn that they are neutered. Don't knights have a stratagem to ignore hit modifiers too? Each unsaved wound from a helverin deletes a whole bike... It's easy to spin it to make it look easy for bikes but I think in reality it's pretty tough...

I forgot that the 2nd +1 invul strat wont make you go past a 3++, either way -2/-3 to hit with a 3++ is very strong (its been a few months since i played Quins as im having more fun with DE atm)

And yes they can ignore invuls, but only one can shoot a turn and its a one time shot, they could spend 3CP (or is it 2cp?) to have a 2nd one fireit also, but they still will be hitting on 5+ and cant re-roll 3-4's, it also might not even kill 1 if it does wound, they still need to roll 3 damage, granted it more likely to roll a 3-4-5-6 than a 1 or 2, but hitting on 5+ will mean he most likely wont fire at them.

Slashy McTalons wrote:
Each bike should average 1.74 wounds to a knight, I think. Knights also have a strat to get a 5+ vs mortal wounds? So even with 18 bikes you'd be unlikely to kill a knight in one round without the help of fusion etc. Also how do the bikes get a 2++?! There's nothing in the harlequin codex that allows that. One unit can be -2 to hit, one unit can have a 3++. If you dont get the first turn and cant hide the bikes, enough will die in the first turn that they are neutered. Don't knights have a stratagem to ignore hit modifiers too? Each unsaved wound from a helverin deletes a whole bike... It's easy to spin it to make it look easy for bikes but I think in reality it's pretty tough...

Ally in Craft World Eldar to have "Conceal" cast on a unit, it is a buff of further -1 to hit to the protected unit. Have the Shadowseer cast "Fog of Dreams" on the enemy most killy unit so it is now suffered debuff of -1 to hit. Coupled with the Jetbikes innate -1 to hit. Boom, you basically got invisibility deathstar back.

I've seen some post elsewhere on dakka where the poster said a Harlequin Solitare with "Suit of hidden knives" buffed by all these powers and lightening fast reflexes stratagem, charged into his main Primaris Deathwatch kill team, with -4 to hit basically each attacks from the marines are inducing Mortal Wounds back onto themselves. So the 10 men squad is wiped because they are basically killing themselves due to this Harlequin OPness.

Or a Farseer for Doom, as Doom is so freaking good.

Fog of Dreams only protects infantry, so it won't help bikes :(
But CWE for conceal sounds like a must.
I am new to harlequins, want to keep a mostly-pure force, but other than a farseer is there anything from the other Eldar books that essentially 'a really good idea for Harlequins to try to squeeze in? Whilst keeping Harlies as the bulk of the army.

Slashy McTalons wrote:
Fog of Dreams only protects infantry, so it won't help bikes :(
But CWE for conceal sounds like a must.
I am new to harlequins, want to keep a mostly-pure force, but other than a farseer is there anything from the other Eldar books that essentially 'a really good idea for Harlequins to try to squeeze in? Whilst keeping Harlies as the bulk of the army.

Usually a cheap battalion with 3x rangers, a Farseer and warlock is a good investment. The Rangers provide a backfield objective camping unit the Quins lack, the psykers provide buffs. I usually will include one other unit too, either Banshees for no overwatch, or Shining Spears for a beatstick to go along with the Skyweavers. Just keep in mind that a chunk of Farseer/warlock powers only affect Craftworld units, so choose carefully. Like Conceal, you can't conceal Skyweavers as they don't have the correct keyword.

With Banshees (with Quicken), Silent Shroud Skyweavers (with Twilight Pathways), and a Sky stride Soaring Spite Troupe Master with Starmist Raiment you can charge an entire front on turn 1 without overwatch. Plus a blitzing Solitaire. Fun times. It's not flawless, and you have to build your list for it, but it's a lot of fun (especially against Tau/Guard/Guilliman Marines).