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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 21:53:32
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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I was thinking it is perfectly possible to bring Cruze back, look at Torgaddon coming back from the dead as one of the Luperci.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 22:48:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 22:13:42
Subject: Kruze a daemon primarch?
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Ship's Officer
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Who the hell is Kruze? At least get the night haunter’s name right, it’s Konrad Curze. He’s better off being dead or brought back and being on the loyalist side.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 22:30:48
Subject: Kruze a daemon primarch?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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His whole death is a reference to Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now. He's meant to die.
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Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 22:47:51
Subject: Kruze a daemon primarch?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Big Mac wrote:Who the hell is Kruze? At least get the night haunter’s name right, it’s Konrad Curze. He’s better off being dead or brought back and being on the loyalist side.
It was a typo, calm down buddy. Automatically Appended Next Post: Grimtuff wrote:His whole death is a reference to Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now. He's meant to die.
I agree the dead should stay dead but I wouldn't mind seeing Cruze come back alive and at least in his case its possible.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 22:49:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 22:59:40
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Norn Queen
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Might as well revive Sanguinius and pretend the Heresy never happened.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 23:07:37
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'd prefer that they don't do that. There are a few primarchs that should just stay dead and he along with Manus, Sang and Horus coming back just cheapens the seating and gaks over the established character arches.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 23:08:29
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
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I thought Kurze as a daemon primarch of Malice would be pretty funny.
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Jon Garrett wrote:Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.
"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."
"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"
"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."
"...Kunnin'." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 23:25:22
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Ecept that its impossible to bring back Sanguinius or impossible before GW write ridiculous fluff to make it possible. Horus couldn't be brought back and although I'd love him to come back I don't think he should because it would go completely against the lore, Cruze is another story though, you wouldn't have to go against the lore to bring him back.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 23:26:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/19 23:29:40
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Ecept that its impossible to bring back Sanguinius or impossible before GW write ridiculous fluff to make it possible. Horus couldn't be brought back and although I'd love him to come back I don't think he should because it would go completely against the lore, Cruze is another story though, you wouldn't have to go against the lore to bring him back.
Except for Curze seeming to want to die - the infamous quote to the Callidus Assassin who (as far as we know) kills him would seem to bear this out.
Part of becoming a Daemon Prince (or Daemon Primarch) would be agreeing to the power. If you want to die, why agree to immortality?
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2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG
My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote:This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote:You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling. - No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 02:30:39
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Dysartes wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Ecept that its impossible to bring back Sanguinius or impossible before GW write ridiculous fluff to make it possible. Horus couldn't be brought back and although I'd love him to come back I don't think he should because it would go completely against the lore, Cruze is another story though, you wouldn't have to go against the lore to bring him back.
Except for Curze seeming to want to die - the infamous quote to the Callidus Assassin who (as far as we know) kills him would seem to bear this out.
Part of becoming a Daemon Prince (or Daemon Primarch) would be agreeing to the power. If you want to die, why agree to immortality?
Torgaddon obviously didn't want to be brought back but he still was brought back nonetheless. Cruze could be possessed and come back rather than being a daemon prince, which I think would be cool.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/20 02:31:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 02:33:45
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Ship's Officer
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Curze along with most of his 8th legion loath daemons, for they see getting external help from them is weakness. As much as I like to see him come back, he’s better off being dead, absent, maybe back as a redemption arc coming full circle, not as a primarch attached to any chaos god.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 02:34:29
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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Curse wanted to die, and he wanted the night lord legion to die too. He never appointed a successor in hopes the night lords would destroy themselves fighting over his throne. That was made pretty clear.
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"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 02:56:51
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Techpriestsupport wrote:Curse wanted to die, and he wanted the night lord legion to die too. He never appointed a successor in hopes the night lords would destroy themselves fighting over his throne. That was made pretty clear.
Doesn't matter, Chaos can use the soul of a dead person and combine it with a daemon you should read vengeful spirit or re-read it if you have forgotten, tells you all about it in that. Torgaddon went through it, even though he didn't want that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/20 02:59:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 03:08:57
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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Delvarus Centurion wrote: Techpriestsupport wrote:Curse wanted to die, and he wanted the night lord legion to die too. He never appointed a successor in hopes the night lords would destroy themselves fighting over his throne. That was made pretty clear.
Doesn't matter, Chaos can use the soul of a dead person and combine it with a daemon you should read vengeful spirit or re-read it if you have forgotten, tells you all about it in that. Torgaddon went through it, even though he didn't want that.
If chaos tried to force curse to serve it, he'd probably find a way to bite it in the ass. Maybe slaanesh would enjoy that, no one else would.
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"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 03:10:30
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Techpriestsupport wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote: Techpriestsupport wrote:Curse wanted to die, and he wanted the night lord legion to die too. He never appointed a successor in hopes the night lords would destroy themselves fighting over his throne. That was made pretty clear.
Doesn't matter, Chaos can use the soul of a dead person and combine it with a daemon you should read vengeful spirit or re-read it if you have forgotten, tells you all about it in that. Torgaddon went through it, even though he didn't want that.
If chaos tried to force curse to serve it, he'd probably find a way to bite it in the ass. Maybe slaanesh would enjoy that, no one else would.
Dunno, Magnus tried to resist Chaos, he could only do it for a short period of time, though if anyone could resist the gods it would be a Primarch.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 07:06:41
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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Delvarus Centurion wrote: Techpriestsupport wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote: Techpriestsupport wrote:Curse wanted to die, and he wanted the night lord legion to die too. He never appointed a successor in hopes the night lords would destroy themselves fighting over his throne. That was made pretty clear.
Doesn't matter, Chaos can use the soul of a dead person and combine it with a daemon you should read vengeful spirit or re-read it if you have forgotten, tells you all about it in that. Torgaddon went through it, even though he didn't want that.
If chaos tried to force curse to serve it, he'd probably find a way to bite it in the ass. Maybe slaanesh would enjoy that, no one else would.
Dunno, Magnus tried to resist Chaos, he could only do it for a short period of time, though if anyone could resist the gods it would be a Primarch.
Well, maybe his whiny, moany, doom and gloom goth routine is just so unbearable even chaos gods can't stand it...
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"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 07:33:03
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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The only dead primarch that should be brought back is Ferrus Manus, and that has nothing to do with any qualities as a character he does or does not have and everything to do with the concept of a fething dreadnought primarch.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 09:20:28
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
Watch Fortress Excalibris
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For some reason, I am disappointed this thread is not about the Zodiac Killer...
Anyway, Night Haunter's schtick is being the traitor primarch who refused to embrace Chaos despite being a sadistic, psychotic loon. The one who actually gets a sort of grimdarkified version of a redemption arc. If he came back as a daemon, he'd basically just be a more Gothy Fulgrim or a more intelligent Angron, so what would be the point?
The only dead primarch that should be brought back is Ferrus Manus, and that has nothing to do with any qualities as a character he does or does not have and everything to do with the concept of a fething dreadnought primarch.
Nah. The best reason to bring Ferrus back is to laugh at his reaction to what his legion turned into.
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A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 09:26:18
Subject: Kruze a daemon primarch?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Big Mac wrote:Who the hell is Kruze? At least get the night haunter’s name right, it’s Konrad Curze. He’s better off being dead or brought back and being on the loyalist side.
Presumably the Daemon Prince Cruze is shorter than the others, and he's one of the forgotten two because of that sofa-jumpjng incident ...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 09:32:55
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
Hanoi, Vietnam.
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Possible? Yes. Desirable? No. "Back from the dead" is the one of the laziest and lamest tropes available to a writer, along side, "Oh! What a terrible dream" and the Fonze jumps a shark. "Back from the dead" is the reason I lost interest in Heroes, Game of Thrones and other such promising rubbish.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 09:42:59
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Ginjitzu wrote:Possible? Yes. Desirable? No. "Back from the dead" is the one of the laziest and lamest tropes available to a writer, along side, "Oh! What a terrible dream" and the Fonze jumps a shark. "Back from the dead" is the reason I lost interest in Heroes, Game of Thrones and other such promising rubbish.
LOLWUT?
There are literally 2 characters in GoT (okay, 3 if you count the books) who has come back from being dead (The Hound doesn't count as he was never dead in the first place). GoT's whole shtick is it kills off characters willy nilly. Out of a main cast of hundreds we can barely count on one hand those who have bucked that trend. I honestly cannot believe I'm having to explain this to someone on a nerd forum in 2018...
Anyway, OT- Nope, nope, nope. Do not bring any dead primarchs back (or living ones for that matter, but that's a whole 'nother topic). A lot of the crux of the main characterizations of things in 40k rest on them being dead. The entire foundation of the imperium itself rests on the fact Sanguinius gave his life for his father.
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Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 09:45:37
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Fixture of Dakka
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It's not necessarily a bad story point - GoT spent some effort foreshadowing how and why it would happen, IIRC. However, the most common reason to do it is to evoke a Christ-like or vampire-like theme, and Conrad Curze is neither of those. He's a self-loathing psychopath who welcomes his execution as both vindication of his worldview and to end his misery. It's quite blatantly a reference to Heart of Darkness (Apocalypse Now for those of us who've not read the book). What good would bringing him back do?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 09:45:56
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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If we're talking about bringing back primarchs what about mean Russ or lion el'johnson?
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"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 09:50:56
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Bring back Ferus Manus as a head option for the Helbrute kit.
Don't give him any special rules or anything; he's just as lost as any other 'brute!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 09:53:41
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Duskweaver wrote:The only dead primarch that should be brought back is Ferrus Manus, and that has nothing to do with any qualities as a character he does or does not have and everything to do with the concept of a fething dreadnought primarch.
Nah. The best reason to bring Ferrus back is to laugh at his reaction to what his legion turned into.
Bleh, I always forget that GW decided they should make the Iron Hands primarch despise the Entire Thing of the Iron Hands. Step one of making the "main character" of a faction is making him someone that fans of the faction can get behind and agree with.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 10:07:06
Subject: Re:Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Those ones at least are not confirmed as dead. El-Jonson is sleeping. Russ, Khan, Vulkan and Dorn are all missing. Guilliman was in stasis. The only confirmed dead Imperial Primarchs are Sanguinius and Ferrus Manus.
Among the traitors, Horus and Curze are dead. Alpharius probably is. the other six are daemons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 10:26:27
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Cruising down the street in my m31...
But in all seriousness, no. The primarchs don't all need to come back. If you want primarchs, read the Heresy books. Curze is best as the more enigmatic damaged soul that he is. His death was to make a point about the imperium and the emperor. Automatically Appended Next Post: Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Doesn't matter, Chaos can use the soul of a dead person and combine it with a daemon you should read vengeful spirit or re-read it if you have forgotten, tells you all about it in that. Torgaddon went through it, even though he didn't want that.
Didn't that require some choice words from erebus along with a little human sacrifice?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/20 10:31:47
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 11:46:50
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
Hanoi, Vietnam.
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Grimtuff wrote:There are literally 2 characters in GoT (okay, 3 if you count the books) who has come back from being dead
That's eleven too many.
AndrewGPaul wrote:It's not necessarily a bad story point - GoT spent some effort foreshadowing how and why it would happen, IIRC.
To be fair, that's absolutely true about the foreshadowing. Most people tend to disagree with me about GoT, even friends who've turned against it for other reasons. Back from the dead is actually kind of just a pet peeve of mine; It just cheapens what should always be a feeling of genuine loss and I find myself unable to reconcile it in just about any form of fiction unless it's for comical reasons.
I take no solace in the unnerving feeling that Games-Workshop likely don't have any such compunction, and that sometime by ninth edition, Horus and Big E will be swinging swords and psychic beams at each other on every other tabletop.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/20 11:47:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 12:15:47
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Rising from the dead has a long pedigree in fiction, though - Someone more versed in ancient myths can probably come up with something better, but there's Osiris, Persephone, Lazarus, Jesus, etc. As soon as you posit the existence of a soul that exists after physical death, someone's going to suggest the idea of resurrection.
Doing it cheaply ruins things, I agree - that's why the idea of the Perpetuals annoys me, and why comic book plots make me roll my eyes - but I don't think I'd go so far to rule out the concept altogether. Apart from anything else, it's an interesting premise for a sci-fi whodunnit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/20 12:16:50
Subject: Cruze a daemon primarch?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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The emperor destroying Horus's soul so chaos could not revive him tells us that is it possible, so yes night haunter could be revived, as could sanguinius, as to what state they would be in is debatable, for all we know both their souls are being eternally tormented by the gods.
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