Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just to add a cheap necron unit and some more horror to the necrons, I'd like to suggest a new necron unit: Mindshackled.

Mindshackled would be non necrons units, orks, humans, tau, eldar, etc that have been taken ovrer by mindshackle scarabs and turned into mindless cyber zombies under the control of the necrons. They would be very cheap units that were strictly fodder.

So it gives the necrons a cheap screening unit but they all count as dead at the end of the battle so the enemy might get points for them.

Any thought on this?

Mindshackled meat puppets is cool in my book. Giving 'crons a way to fill out detachments for CP seems like a good idea, and the fluff doesn't seem to contradict it (although I usually hear about mindshackles being used on a select few dudes instead of whole armies).

I'd ditch the "count as dead at the end of battle" part though. That does wonky and wildly different things depending on the format you're playing in. In an ITC style mission, for instance, dying at the end of the game doesn't really do anything because you usually only care about stuff that dies during game turns. In the kill points eternal war mission though, it potentially shifts the end of game score dramatically. And if your buddies ever want to run custom missions with unusual scoring mechanics or unusually low VP counts...

But yeah. Make them, like, conscripts with no stratagems and maybe no shooting, and you're golden. Probably price them the same as conscripts despite being worse because bodies that are *too* cheap get problematic. Inefficient-but-cheap is still useful in a 'cron force, yeah?

Well, think of these as the cheapass version of mindshackel scarabs, very simple ones meant for mass control as opposed to the more refined, sophisticated version used on that poor dark angel Sargent, for example.

I was wondering if a special FNP save would be good for them without making them op. I'm cool with dumping the dead at the end of the battle thing. It was Mrs about the necrons not able to keep their zombies working long.

No shooting? Hmm, maybe, or maybe melee units and shooting units as separate units? Or an option to equip normal mind shackled with some cheap ass necron built gun? I'm open to all ideas.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, think of these as the cheapass version of mindshackel scarabs, very simple ones meant for mass control as opposed to the more refined, sophisticated version used on that poor dark angel Sargent, for example.

I was wondering if a special FNP save would be good for them without making them op. I'm cool with dumping the dead at the end of the battle thing. It was Mrs about the necrons not able to keep their zombies working long.

No shooting? Hmm, maybe, or maybe melee units and shooting units as separate units? Or an option to equip normal mind shackled with some cheap ass necron built gun? I'm open to all ideas.

Well, mechanically, giving them a gun makes them significantly more useful (assuming the gun 's profile isn't worse-than-lasgun garbage). If the goal is to make these guys cheap (I'm assuming the 4 - 7 points range), then you'll want to price them comparably to similarly-priced things. FNP on a cheap model is arguably more useful than on a more expensive one-wound model because the point of massed chaff is to force your opponent to waste shots clearing it.

It would strike me as a little bit weird for 'crons to equip their mindless thralls with significantly worse guns than what warriors have. You could totally make a skitarii-esque troop unit for the 'crons; just make sure it has a similar pricetag to a skitarii. But beyond that, it's difficult to discuss without more concrete examples. If I were to make this unit, I'd probably do one of the following:

A.) Just guard conscripts by another name. Same pricetag. No stratagem support. No order support. No Dynasty tactics. Just mindless guardsmen being pushed forward by low-quality scarab AI. If they aren't breaking the game in the guard 'dex with support, they'll probably be reasonable in the 'cron 'dex without support, even though they will significantly boost the amount of CP you have.

B.) Crummy skitarii. Give them 6+ FNP, WS/BS 4+, 5+ saves, and something akin to a gauss flayer for a weapon. Probably lands them around 8ish points. More killy, more durable (but less durable point for point thanks to the higher cost), and more expensive, but still cheap by 'cron standards. They will give up kill points and generate CP while still feeling like they've been enhanced by the 'crons.

C.) Literally just guard infantry using genestealer cult rules as a guideline for what IG look like when splashed into a xenos 'dex.

This is a neat idea.

I'd recommend just making them shambling corpses-think Poxwalkers, but maybe with a 6+ armor and 6+ FNP.

Mindshackled Horde-Troops, 3 PL

M..........5"
WS.......5+
BS........5+
S..........3
T...........4
W..........1
A...........1
Ld.........6
Sv.........6+

This unit contains 10 Mindshackled Bodies. You may add up to 10 more for +2 PL, up to 20 more for +5, or up to 30 more for +7 PL. Each model is equipped with Improvised Cudgels and Debris.

Weapon.......................Range.........Type................S.........AP......D.......Abilities
Improvised Cudgels.....Melee.........Melee..............User....0........1........Whenever the bearer fights, they make a single extra attack with this weapon.
Debris..........................6"................Grenade d3.....3.........0........1........One in five models (rounding up) per squad may throw this, instead of just one per squad.

Abilities
Insensate To Pain-This model ignores wounds taken on a roll of 6.
Mindless-This model automatically passes morale tests.

Faction Keywords
Necron

Keywords
Infantry, Mindshackled Horde

Points
5 PPM, all weapons are free.

Not bad . I was kinda thinking of making them multiple models on one large base with multiple wounds and attacks, like a scarab base.

One idea you gave me was the poxwalker analogy: Maybe units can gain back wounds by inflicing them on enemy models as they abosrbd tissue from the enemy and energy from their gear and ammo. So every wound they inflict adds to the damage of bases at the owners discretion.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Not bad . I was kinda thinking of making them multiple models on one large base with multiple wounds and attacks, like a scarab base.

One idea you gave me was the poxwalker analogy: Maybe units can gain back wounds by inflicing them on enemy models as they abosrbd tissue from the enemy and energy from their gear and ammo. So every wound they inflict adds to the damage of bases at the owners discretion.

Putting multiple models on one base would be a bit weird just because we have tons of examples of units that represent hordes including full on zombies in the form of pox walkers. That said, doing so would mostly be a debuff to them as they'd become more suscetiple to multi-damage weapons.

Letting them "eat" enemy models is cool. Just make sure you add some points to their price tag to account for it. Also, rather than tracking a bunch of floating damage boosts, why not just eschew the multi-wound base idea and steal the pox walker rules for doing the same basic thing?

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Not bad . I was kinda thinking of making them multiple models on one large base with multiple wounds and attacks, like a scarab base.

One idea you gave me was the poxwalker analogy: Maybe units can gain back wounds by inflicing them on enemy models as they abosrbd tissue from the enemy and energy from their gear and ammo. So every wound they inflict adds to the damage of bases at the owners discretion.

It could be an amazing way to model Scarab Swarms though! Creating a very unique looking army!

To better represent their mindless nature however I'd add a bit that means they can't hold or contest objectives.

I would prefer scarabs as troops, really, but cyber zombie slaves sounds cool too.
You do hear about the necrons using MSS to control people, and this would be a nice reference to that.

Of course, you would then have to explain why the necrons just don't do that to everyone. Like, release a cloud of nanites over a city and just mind control everyone.
Maybe instead of MSS, they are humans captured by the necrons and experimented upon. They were then lobotomized and bits of them replaced with machinery to act as expendable slave labor and cannon fodder.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I would prefer scarabs as troops, really, but cyber zombie slaves sounds cool too.
You do hear about the necrons using MSS to control people, and this would be a nice reference to that.

Of course, you would then have to explain why the necrons just don't do that to everyone. Like, release a cloud of nanites over a city and just mind control everyone.

Why don't nids just release viral strikes like the lire eater virus and do their own exterminatus? Then land and eat the masses of life eater virus residue to has all the genetic data in it? Maybe the implantation has to be done with physical contact.

Thematically good.

But they seem to only exist as a cheap gameplay mechanic - screening bodies and detachment fillers.

It would be interesting if they were being controlled specifically somehow - so if the warlord dies, then they immediately die.

Alternatively, have them as an option to take with the overlord / lord / cryptek (however it fits in the fluff), and they have to stay within 6" of the lord to be able to move, shoot, fight, charge etc.

so, for each unit in your army with mindshackle scarabs you may include 1 unit of mindshackled slaves.

Mindshackled slaves may not move, shoot or fight if not within 6" of a model with mindshackle scarabs - they will stand still and do nothing.

Mindshackled slaves do not take up a slot (this is to stop them being used for CP spam, I don't think a unit of shuffling mindless zombies should be seen as the core of an army!).

I would give them the same movement as necrons so they don't slow down any advance, and BS 6+ WS 5+, 5+ Save. Maybe feel no pain, but not if you want them cheap. Use them to screen your warlord whilst he goes about his business.

Ok, make them controllable by a cryptek or a spider, possibly some other units. A lord? Ha! You think a necron lord would sully himself controlling such insignificant units?

If GW isn't insanely opposed to human suicide bombers we could give them the ability to make an overload self destruct attack like scarabs, letting them explode and causing more wounds. Or you could buy the suicide bomb option for points.

Just make Scarabs Troop, but never give them ObSec. Problem solved.


From a thematic and aesthetic standpoint, I really dislike the idea of Necrons utilizing slaves, and the "fleshbags as meatshields" is already something done by Chaos...and the Imperium.

 DV8 wrote:
Just make Scarabs Troop, but never give them ObSec. Problem solved.


From a thematic and aesthetic standpoint, I really dislike the idea of Necrons utilizing slaves, and the "fleshbags as meatshields" is already something done by Chaos...and the Imperium.

This would be the easiest solution but I would like to see what we can do for this unit proposed.

I'm thinking 5 points, Conscript stats, and passes their morale tests.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm thinking 5 points, Conscript stats, and passes their morale tests.

Not even Necrons, emotionless machines, auto-pass their morale tests without using a Warlord trait or burning CPs like everyone else.

Cheap fearless hordes (in practice) will just end up being unshiftable blobs parked on objectives that you have to kill to a last man. Auto-passing morale as an innate ability for cheap horde fodder is just asking for trouble.