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I was under the impression that, apart from the Space Wolves and post-heresy Slaaneshi types, Space Marines were essentially asexual.
However when listening to the Horus Rising audiobook, the narrator at one point seems to remark that the Marines on board the Vengeful Spirit hung out with the remembrances to "meet girls," which seems to suggest at least some amount of attraction going on, although not necessarily actual liaisons. Is that an inconsistency on Dan Abnett's part, or is sexuality more of a "rare but extant" thing among Space Marines? Or are the Luna Wolves also an exception like the Space Wolves?

All 40k Space Marines are asexual, the Space Wolves aren't an exception.

30k Marines had much less indoctrination and hypnosis and general mind mashing so they probably remember what attraction is like.

I could see marines having a “hey brah, brah, brah moments on the vengeful spirit”. I wouldn’t necessarily say they’re there to meet girls, but they do certainly have pleasure themselves with any means, ask Fulgrim’s legion.

 Danielle Rae wrote:
I was under the impression that, apart from the Space Wolves and post-heresy Slaaneshi types, Space Marines were essentially asexual.
However when listening to the Horus Rising audiobook, the narrator at one point seems to remark that the Marines on board the Vengeful Spirit hung out with the remembrances to "meet girls," which seems to suggest at least some amount of attraction going on, although not necessarily actual liaisons. Is that an inconsistency on Dan Abnett's part, or is sexuality more of a "rare but extant" thing among Space Marines? Or are the Luna Wolves also an exception like the Space Wolves?

Rare, but extant.

There is nothing stated in the lore that marines suddenly become eunuchs during the astartes creation process. It is most likely that the psycho-indoctrination and the chemical cocktails kill their libido though, so they have less desire to do those things, but not NO desire.

pm713 wrote:
All 40k Space Marines are asexual, the Space Wolves aren't an exception.

That has never been stated in the lore. In fact, quite the opposite has been strongly hinted at in multiple BL novels.

Depends on the writer. It’s all fiction. There’s no factual source of information. At best, certain elements become common and assumed... but it’s the entire galaxy we’re talking about.

In a universe where psycho indoctrination has some failures, to the point that marines embrace the “factual” forfeiture of their souls to chaos... deciding to get it on, even if rarely, doesn’t seem far fetched.

 Danielle Rae wrote:
I was under the impression that, apart from the Space Wolves and post-heresy Slaaneshi types, Space Marines were essentially asexual.
However when listening to the Horus Rising audiobook, the narrator at one point seems to remark that the Marines on board the Vengeful Spirit hung out with the remembrances to "meet girls," which seems to suggest at least some amount of attraction going on, although not necessarily actual liaisons. Is that an inconsistency on Dan Abnett's part, or is sexuality more of a "rare but extant" thing among Space Marines? Or are the Luna Wolves also an exception like the Space Wolves?

You know, a man might be curious to meet girls for other reasons than sex or relationship. Maybe they are curious to see how they look like, or talk or behave in general afterall. Some Space Marines might have no clear memory of women and girls, living all their lives urrounded by their brothers and meeting mostly soldiers who are more often then not men. Perhapse they are interested in relationship with somethign very different from them. Space Marines are mostly asexual, but that doesn't mean they are deprived of romantic feelings. There is a lot of wiggle room there.

There's also Terran late uplifted Astartes vs the more modern Super-puberty process to take into account.

Are you an accomplished adult warrior, painstakingly raised to superhuman status, or an accelerated and psycho-indoctrinated child?

However when listening to the Horus Rising audiobook, the narrator at one point seems to remark that the Marines on board the Vengeful Spirit hung out with the remembrances to "meet girls,"

As I recall it was Imperial Army soldiers who were trying to meet women, and Loken was fairly disapproving.

pelicaniforce wrote:

However when listening to the Horus Rising audiobook, the narrator at one point seems to remark that the Marines on board the Vengeful Spirit hung out with the remembrances to "meet girls,"

As I recall it was Imperial Army soldiers who were trying to meet women, and Loken was fairly disapproving.

"These soldiers are gratifying a physiological urge that is responsible for the propagation of the human race across the stars, and the continuance of the species, including making new space marines. They are doing it in a manner that does not jeopardize the mission or unit cohesion in any obvious way. I disapprove because it hurts my delicate space marine sensibilities." -Loken

I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

 Nerak wrote:
I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

That is a possibility. But that doesn't mean the urge to procreate and the "equipment" by which to do it with is not there.

The topic of Space Marine genitalia or fertility seems to recur with depressing regularity on many forums and different message boards. I suspect this may be due to the portrayal of Space Marines increasingly like macho movie action heroes, which are a stereotypical masculine wish fulfillment fantasy: the ultra strong, supremely competent, long lived, fast, square jawed action hero. The problem is they are portrayed as if they are your standard Hollywood action hero rather than a more dehumanized warrior. When this portrayal comes up against their supposed monk-like lifestyle and focus on combat and duty over all else, raises the question in people about their manliness (i.e. their genitals or fertility). After all, in action movies, the macho hero also gets the girl (or at least is theoretically capable of getting the girl). The very possibility that Space Marines might not be able to do so or want to do so seems to sit uncomfortably with some people, which I suspect is the reason why this topic keeps occurring. They can't be a stereotypical wish fulfillment fantasy if they are not virile but instead neutered or infertile.

There is a line in an old codex about a space wolf (Lukas?) wolves making a pass at a woman, however personally I treat it as half remembered reflexes - so when they are feasting etc they fall into old habbits but its not something they can or would follow through on.

Are there any other examples at all? I don't know of any but I certainly haven't read every codex or BL book. I'm pretty comfortable with Space Marines being inhuman murder monks, though.

"Dehumanised" killing machines for whom duty overrides other desires works for me.

The psycho- and chem- "conditioning" they go through may as well make them as asexual as a eunuch. They may have the plumbing left (at least the waste disposal functions still work) but I doubt they still feel the urges of the flesh that they did when they were mere humans. All of that is controlled by the brain, anyway (it is our largest sexual organ). Rewiring the pleasure centres to other stimuli would do it (and more than likely done with chemical assistance).
Extreme physical training can suppress libido in regular humans.
Male AND female athletes. Given the larger muscle mass in marines, this also implies a greater maintenance to keep it, and a higher hormone soup to regulate it.

It doesn't matter if they don't or can't breed. It's not like their enhancements can be passed on to offspring anyway.
Once you can no longer breed, evolution no longer needs you.

They are all the product of these glands and organs implanted into a regular human (admittedly, tougher and hardier specimens, since they tend to come from stock on the less habitable worlds (Baal being a volcanic hell-hole, Fenris an ice-cube, etc. )
If they could, they wouldn't NEED to produce more marines using the geneseed and staged implantation of organs thing, they could just breed them.

 chromedog wrote:
"Dehumanised" killing machines for whom duty overrides other desires works for me.

The psycho- and chem- "conditioning" they go through may as well make them as asexual as a eunuch. They may have the plumbing left (at least the waste disposal functions still work) but I doubt they still feel the urges of the flesh that they did when they were mere humans. All of that is controlled by the brain, anyway (it is our largest sexual organ). Rewiring the pleasure centres to other stimuli would do it (and more than likely done with chemical assistance).
Extreme physical training can suppress libido in regular humans.
Male AND female athletes. Given the larger muscle mass in marines, this also implies a greater maintenance to keep it, and a higher hormone soup to regulate it.

It doesn't matter if they don't or can't breed. It's not like their enhancements can be passed on to offspring anyway.
Once you can no longer breed, evolution no longer needs you.

They are all the product of these glands and organs implanted into a regular human (admittedly, tougher and hardier specimens, since they tend to come from stock on the less habitable worlds (Baal being a volcanic hell-hole, Fenris an ice-cube, etc. )
If they could, they wouldn't NEED to produce more marines using the geneseed and staged implantation of organs thing, they could just breed them.

Actually it would be important for them to breed if it were possible simply because it would ensure that their offspring would continue to distribute the genes making descending males suitable for geneseed transplant. The issue with the Astartes upgrade process, especially on feral worlds, is that every male you remove from the population that meets the acceptance markers is removing that individual from the breeding population in order to pass those traits on. Meaning that the traits must firstly be passed on by the mother and not the father, and that feral world recruitment is always going to be a nightmare due to a lack of compatible boys.

It seems to me that Space Marines and probably Primarchs and possibly the Emperor too, must all be sterile. Are there any examples at all of Space Marines or Primarchs procreating? Of course absence of proof is not proof of absence, but it is evidence of absence. As for how much a Marine appreciates or recalls or still experiences the emotions related to sexual attraction, I was also under the impression that Space Wolves were more gregarious in this respect than their more monastic brethren, but I don't really know where I got that impression.

If marines do have the ability to impregnate a woman, the offspring would just be a normal human with the father's original DNA. Nothing about the space marine creation process alters the gonads (that is the actual scientific term which I find somewhat humorous) in any way. That is assuming that the chemical cocktails that are administered don't turn the marine sterile, or the psycho-conditioning doesn't kill libido completely.

w1zard wrote:

 Danielle Rae wrote:
I was under the impression that, apart from the Space Wolves and post-heresy Slaaneshi types, Space Marines were essentially asexual.
However when listening to the Horus Rising audiobook, the narrator at one point seems to remark that the Marines on board the Vengeful Spirit hung out with the remembrances to "meet girls," which seems to suggest at least some amount of attraction going on, although not necessarily actual liaisons. Is that an inconsistency on Dan Abnett's part, or is sexuality more of a "rare but extant" thing among Space Marines? Or are the Luna Wolves also an exception like the Space Wolves?

Rare, but extant.

There is nothing stated in the lore that marines suddenly become eunuchs during the astartes creation process. It is most likely that the psycho-indoctrination and the chemical cocktails kill their libido though, so they have less desire to do those things, but not NO desire.

pm713 wrote:
All 40k Space Marines are asexual, the Space Wolves aren't an exception.

That has never been stated in the lore. In fact, quite the opposite has been strongly hinted at in multiple BL novels.

...what. It's pretty clear in the lore unless I missed the bit about space marines getting indoctrinated and physically changed*

*Except Space Wolves who are normal people just tall.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
"Dehumanised" killing machines for whom duty overrides other desires works for me.

The psycho- and chem- "conditioning" they go through may as well make them as asexual as a eunuch. They may have the plumbing left (at least the waste disposal functions still work) but I doubt they still feel the urges of the flesh that they did when they were mere humans. All of that is controlled by the brain, anyway (it is our largest sexual organ). Rewiring the pleasure centres to other stimuli would do it (and more than likely done with chemical assistance).
Extreme physical training can suppress libido in regular humans.
Male AND female athletes. Given the larger muscle mass in marines, this also implies a greater maintenance to keep it, and a higher hormone soup to regulate it.

It doesn't matter if they don't or can't breed. It's not like their enhancements can be passed on to offspring anyway.
Once you can no longer breed, evolution no longer needs you.

They are all the product of these glands and organs implanted into a regular human (admittedly, tougher and hardier specimens, since they tend to come from stock on the less habitable worlds (Baal being a volcanic hell-hole, Fenris an ice-cube, etc. )
If they could, they wouldn't NEED to produce more marines using the geneseed and staged implantation of organs thing, they could just breed them.

Actually it would be important for them to breed if it were possible simply because it would ensure that their offspring would continue to distribute the genes making descending males suitable for geneseed transplant. The issue with the Astartes upgrade process, especially on feral worlds, is that every male you remove from the population that meets the acceptance markers is removing that individual from the breeding population in order to pass those traits on. Meaning that the traits must firstly be passed on by the mother and not the father, and that feral world recruitment is always going to be a nightmare due to a lack of compatible boys.

That's a really good point that I bet no one has considered.

If you're going to take away the top 1% of the gene pool in terms of Astartes suitability, and not let them reproduce, then you will gradually be removing the genetic capacity to produce these individuals.

Good reason to not have female astartes; even if those individual woman COULD be Space Marines it's more useful to leave them out to pass on their genes.
GW, we've just sorted it for you!

pm713 wrote:
...what. It's pretty clear in the lore unless I missed the bit about space marines getting indoctrinated and physically changed*

*Except Space Wolves who are normal people just tall.

To my knowledge, there is nothing in the lore that says that Space Marines are sterile, or incapable of having sex or feeling sexual attraction. In fact, there are numerous tidbits throughout the lore that hint at astartes feeling sexual attraction to women, or other astartes. It is very rarely acted on but it is there.

w1zard wrote:

pm713 wrote:
...what. It's pretty clear in the lore unless I missed the bit about space marines getting indoctrinated and physically changed*

*Except Space Wolves who are normal people just tall.

To my knowledge, there is nothing in the lore that says that Space Marines are sterile, or incapable of having sex or feeling sexual attraction. In fact, there are numerous tidbits throughout the lore that hint at astartes feeling sexual attraction to women, or other astartes. It is very rarely acted on but it is there.

They get enough drugs and genetic alteration to give them acid spit, extra organs and the ability to eat peoples brains for knowledge. Then they get pumped full of drugs constantly to keep their weird new organs in check. Considering things like steroids can make you sterile it's not much of a stretch. Plus I've never come across anything that indicates marines feel sexual attraction.

 Nerak wrote:
I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

It is implied, but not really stated outright. And at least anybody with knowledge of how DNA works who also knows that Space Marines undergo significant genetic alteration would be very confidant in saying that Space Marines would be very unlikely to create viable offspring with humans. The DNA in their Sperm would simply not be compatible with human Ovum. Best case scenario is you might have a hideously malformed baby that would most likely not make it through the entire pregnancy.

Combine this with large scale indoctrination and it is highly likely that they wouldn't have much of any interest in sexual reproduction. There could easily be exceptions, and there are some implied exceptions.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
It seems to me that Space Marines and probably Primarchs and possibly the Emperor too, must all be sterile. Are there any examples at all of Space Marines or Primarchs procreating? Of course absence of proof is not proof of absence, but it is evidence of absence. As for how much a Marine appreciates or recalls or still experiences the emotions related to sexual attraction, I was also under the impression that Space Wolves were more gregarious in this respect than their more monastic brethren, but I don't really know where I got that impression.

Old emp did have children. They are called the sensei.

Ross is also said to have had children.

But I dont know if any of this lore still stands.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

It is implied, but not really stated outright. And at least anybody with knowledge of how DNA works who also knows that Space Marines undergo significant genetic alteration would be very confidant in saying that Space Marines would be very unlikely to create viable offspring with humans. The DNA in their Sperm would simply not be compatible with human Ovum.

I have the knowledge of how "DNA works" and I dont see why the process should render them sterile.

So, inlighten us please.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

It is implied, but not really stated outright. And at least anybody with knowledge of how DNA works who also knows that Space Marines undergo significant genetic alteration would be very confidant in saying that Space Marines would be very unlikely to create viable offspring with humans. The DNA in their Sperm would simply not be compatible with human Ovum. Best case scenario is you might have a hideously malformed baby that would most likely not make it through the entire pregnancy.

Combine this with large scale indoctrination and it is highly likely that they wouldn't have much of any interest in sexual reproduction. There could easily be exceptions, and there are some implied exceptions.

Nothing in the space marine augmentation process however would alter their genes to a "posthuman" level. All they have is an enhanced physiology through transplants, their genes should be relatively unaffected by the process beyond any other transplant surgery.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

It is implied, but not really stated outright. And at least anybody with knowledge of how DNA works who also knows that Space Marines undergo significant genetic alteration would be very confidant in saying that Space Marines would be very unlikely to create viable offspring with humans. The DNA in their Sperm would simply not be compatible with human Ovum. Best case scenario is you might have a hideously malformed baby that would most likely not make it through the entire pregnancy.

Combine this with large scale indoctrination and it is highly likely that they wouldn't have much of any interest in sexual reproduction. There could easily be exceptions, and there are some implied exceptions.

Nothing in the space marine augmentation process however would alter their genes to a "posthuman" level. All they have is an enhanced physiology through transplants, their genes should be relatively unaffected by the process beyond any other transplant surgery.

The Progenoids definitely alter their DNA.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

It is implied, but not really stated outright. And at least anybody with knowledge of how DNA works who also knows that Space Marines undergo significant genetic alteration would be very confidant in saying that Space Marines would be very unlikely to create viable offspring with humans. The DNA in their Sperm would simply not be compatible with human Ovum. Best case scenario is you might have a hideously malformed baby that would most likely not make it through the entire pregnancy.

Combine this with large scale indoctrination and it is highly likely that they wouldn't have much of any interest in sexual reproduction. There could easily be exceptions, and there are some implied exceptions.

Nothing in the space marine augmentation process however would alter their genes to a "posthuman" level. All they have is an enhanced physiology through transplants, their genes should be relatively unaffected by the process beyond any other transplant surgery.

The Progenoids definitely alter their DNA.

Have you read the codices or index astartes? All the progenoids do is absorb genetic information and mature as the astartes version of gonads containing the zygotes to grow a fresh crop of gene seed organs for a successor. They don't alter the host's DNA at all, and for all intents and purposes are completely inert.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

It is implied, but not really stated outright. And at least anybody with knowledge of how DNA works who also knows that Space Marines undergo significant genetic alteration would be very confidant in saying that Space Marines would be very unlikely to create viable offspring with humans. The DNA in their Sperm would simply not be compatible with human Ovum. Best case scenario is you might have a hideously malformed baby that would most likely not make it through the entire pregnancy.

Combine this with large scale indoctrination and it is highly likely that they wouldn't have much of any interest in sexual reproduction. There could easily be exceptions, and there are some implied exceptions.

Nothing in the space marine augmentation process however would alter their genes to a "posthuman" level. All they have is an enhanced physiology through transplants, their genes should be relatively unaffected by the process beyond any other transplant surgery.

The Progenoids definitely alter their DNA.

Have you read the codices or index astartes? All the progenoids do is absorb genetic information and mature as the astartes version of gonads containing the zygotes to grow a fresh crop of gene seed organs for a successor. They don't alter the host's DNA at all, and for all intents and purposes are completely inert.

They also regulate all of the Marine's organs and his hormonal balances, and in older codices quite explicitly altered the Marine's DNA to make everything run smoothly. If this process went wrong it was a major reason behind an Initiate failing to become a Space Marine.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
I was under the assumption that they’re sterile

It is implied, but not really stated outright. And at least anybody with knowledge of how DNA works who also knows that Space Marines undergo significant genetic alteration would be very confidant in saying that Space Marines would be very unlikely to create viable offspring with humans. The DNA in their Sperm would simply not be compatible with human Ovum. Best case scenario is you might have a hideously malformed baby that would most likely not make it through the entire pregnancy.

Combine this with large scale indoctrination and it is highly likely that they wouldn't have much of any interest in sexual reproduction. There could easily be exceptions, and there are some implied exceptions.

Nothing in the space marine augmentation process however would alter their genes to a "posthuman" level. All they have is an enhanced physiology through transplants, their genes should be relatively unaffected by the process beyond any other transplant surgery.

The Progenoids definitely alter their DNA.

Have you read the codices or index astartes? All the progenoids do is absorb genetic information and mature as the astartes version of gonads containing the zygotes to grow a fresh crop of gene seed organs for a successor. They don't alter the host's DNA at all, and for all intents and purposes are completely inert.

in older codices quite explicitly altered the Marine's DNA to make everything run smoothly. If this process went wrong it was a major reason behind an Initiate failing to become a Space Marine.

Source please.

3rd and 4th editions as I recall.