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So, as the unveiling of Calgar shows, I guess that the oft-quoted statement from the Primaris reveal streams has finally been proven as canon!

While it was said that old Space Marines could be converted into Primaris Marines, a few people doubted that this was the case, due to no Primaris'd characters being mentioned. But, this is a nail in the coffin that the conversion process exists.

I, for one, love the room this gives people for their Dudes. Have a named character in an old army that you want to redo in Primaris? That's canon! Want to remodel an old character so they fit in with your Primaris models? They can just become Primaris!

What do you guys think about this? And what characters do you want to be Primaris'd? My hopes would be Azreal and Ezekiel, Dante and Mephiston, Sicarius, Kantor, and Helbrecht.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
My hopes would be Azreal and Ezekiel, Dante and Mephiston, Sicarius, Kantor, and Helbrecht.

Basically all of them.

This to me, proves that old Space Marines will go the way of the dodos very soon. I never would have expected Space Marines, GW most popular faction, to be phased out, but I guess it make sense that they were replaced with bigger, stronger, better Space Marines.

From a fluff perspective it does help rescue the characters Space Marine players loved and knew. It's change, but changes conservative people can accept easily.

epronovost wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
My hopes would be Azreal and Ezekiel, Dante and Mephiston, Sicarius, Kantor, and Helbrecht.

Basically all of them.

Well, I'm not complaining if they did!
Those are more my first picks, but I certainly reckon they all should be Primaris'd.

This to me, proves that old Space Marines will go the way of the dodos very soon. I never would have expected Space Marines, GW most popular faction, to be phased out, but I guess it make sense that they were replaced with bigger, stronger, better Space Marines.

I don't see this as Marines being phased out any more than an old sculpt being phased out. This isn't so much a new faction as it is a new aesthetic for an existing faction, for me.

To me this is the final nail in the I'm 100 percent done with space marines. I have my army and have no interest in the garbage fluff of super duper marines. Primaris to me are one of the more boring things GW has released and the way they did their background is so lazy and ham fisted. If they had just rescaled the existing kits I would be down. Instead we have the something that shares nearly no overlap in options or function.

Pretty much done buying anything until they finally give sisters their day in the sun.

Kinda sad that GW seems to have no idea what to do with the Marines other than just remaking them with bigger models.

Yeah, I know, they're the most popular faction, easiest to get into, the face of the franchise yada yada…

I tend to find their popularity to be a bit detrimental to the development of the franchise, while of course people are free to like what they like, GeeDubs, like most companies, is thinking in short terms profits and would rather focus on what's selling at the moment than spending effort in making the rest of the product line as popular.

It ain't healthy in the long term, and now we see some effects of that with GW having no ideas left on their, creatively rather limited, cashcow beyond remaking the whole line. All the while a lot of potential that they have in their other lines is languishing in limbo, with an occasional release every now and then.

At least they've gotten somewhat better in supporting their other lines in the recent years.

I just want them to update them all ASAP, squat the old marines, and then we can just start calling the Primaris Marines Space Marines, and forget that this awkward transition ever happened.

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
It ain't healthy in the long term, and now we see some effects of that with GW having no ideas left on their, creatively rather limited, cashcow beyond remaking the whole line. All the while a lot of potential that they have in their other lines is languishing in limbo, with an occasional release every now and then.

At least they've gotten somewhat better in supporting their other lines in the recent years.

The big problem of the Space Marine line in my opinion was bloat. There isn't so much you unit you can create in a boardgame before they start eating each others like Starbucks. They managed to avoid the problem for a while by producing other Chapters with their own specific units, but then they had a problem with Chapters becoming too numerous and too similar or having largely empty codexes. The biggest "crime" with Space Marines was how left in the shadow and unsupported were their Chaos version until the eve of the 8th eddition.

Other, older, larger faction suffer from the same issue. I am a big fan of producing fandexes and I have at least an idea or two for Space Marines, but frankly don't ask me to make new Eldar units even though I started 40K as an Eldar player. GW would be better to produce new xenos (more Genestealer Cult counts) than anything else. Stories about Space MArines fighting hte same three or four enemies all the time gets a bit boring after a while.

I should just reiterate, the OP is more about the discussion of the actual conversion process and converting existing characters in lore into Primaris ones, not about Primaris in general. There's already been plenty of threads about that.

Just don't want to see a repeat of all the other Primaris threads in the past, you know?

I'd rather they kept some characters as non-Primaris. Makes it less like they're screaming LOVE PRIMARIS at you. Choice is good.

pm713 wrote:
I'd rather they kept some characters as non-Primaris. Makes it less like they're screaming LOVE PRIMARIS at you. Choice is good.

There's a few Chapters I can maybe see as refusing the enhancement (maybe some Space Wolf characters, and older induviduals like Cassius), but logically in-universe, why would they refuse the Primaris treatment? Tactical flexibility, maybe, but the ability to be stronger, closer to the Primarchs genetically, and generally proving your loyalty to Guilliman are all things that I can see Space Marines wanting to do.

Just seems like a bit of a no-brainer, but then, maybe there are potential risks of enhancement?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'd rather they kept some characters as non-Primaris. Makes it less like they're screaming LOVE PRIMARIS at you. Choice is good.

There's a few Chapters I can maybe see as refusing the enhancement (maybe some Space Wolf characters, and older induviduals like Cassius), but logically in-universe, why would they refuse the Primaris treatment? Tactical flexibility, maybe, but the ability to be stronger, closer to the Primarchs genetically, and generally proving your loyalty to Guilliman are all things that I can see Space Marines wanting to do.

Just seems like a bit of a no-brainer, but then, maybe there are potential risks of enhancement?

Old way is the best way I imagine. If they'll get uppity about fixing major defects like they did with the Tempering they'll get uppity about Primaris. You could also have a thing of it breaks with tradition or isn't what the Emperor intended. Plenty of reasons that Marines wouldn't go Primaris.

As an aside I really wish someone would be critical of Guillimans existence in universe. Considering how Chaos works his return should be incredibly suspicious.

pm713 wrote:
Old way is the best way I imagine. If they'll get uppity about fixing major defects like they did with the Tempering they'll get uppity about Primaris. You could also have a thing of it breaks with tradition or isn't what the Emperor intended. Plenty of reasons that Marines wouldn't go Primaris.

Space Wolves, maybe, but even then, the only real complaints it seems come from Bjorn (who often raises issues with a lot of things the modern Space Wolves do) and the issues Karekborn raises are more teething issues than fundamental ones. It's also potentially relevant that the Tempering issue arises in M32, not M41, and the altered and worsened state of the Imperium could be dire enough to convince even the staunchest of Marines.

Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons, but I do think that the benefits outweigh the negatives. Unless there's actual drawbacks to the process (perhaps risks during surgery?) or a limited ability to have the procedure done (which there doesn't seem to be), I don't see why an Astartes wouldn't do it.

As an aside I really wish someone would be critical of Guillimans existence in universe. Considering how Chaos works his return should be incredibly suspicious.

Oh, there are people critical. It's just that, when the Imperium is in as dire straits as it is, when you have the Custodes supporting his command, and when he has the backing of the Mechanicum and the Ecclesiarchy (only garnered through Guilliman's reluctant embracing of his divinity), one of the most influential Chapters (and the legions of Primaris Marines), it would be incredibly foolish to openly oppose Guilliman.

But that's more of a discussion in itself than part of this one.

If it was just Bjorn then I doubt they would have had so few people working on it. The issue is you're thinking like a sane rational person. Space Marines aren't that rational, if it breaks with tradition that's sufficient reason to not consider it. For example the Obsidian Glaives kept their Dreadnoughts in a system where one was being permanently damaged constantly for tradition.

That's the issue. It's not that dire.

If the primaris is just used to update old models that really need it (Azrael/Ragnar/Dante/etc) then it's fine. Not every character NEEDS the primaris treatment.

I'm happy for people who really love the existing characters as it means there's not going to be a mass killing off or abandonment with plots left unresolved and ofc they will get shiny new models.

But from a storyline perspective I feel its a bit of a cop out. I quite liked the heroic tragedy of the legendary demigods of humanity facing there own obsolescence.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
But from a storyline perspective I feel its a bit of a cop out. I quite liked the heroic tragedy of the legendary demigods of humanity facing there own obsolescence.

I think that's a good viewpoint, I'll agree. I wouldn't have minded if they didn't let oldMarines join the Primaris club, but the fact they have allows for a lot more potential, as good as your tragic take on it is.

I certainly think they can expand on that take though, especially with Calgar. He's almost been pushed out of a job, and even though he's been enhanced, he will still feel inferior.

I think it will just be used occasionally to upgrade older character models. Apparently its a dangerous process that nearly killed calgar.

They said in the seminar that normal marines are going nowhere, so don't expect it to be easily applied to every single normal marine.

I think the most important question is whether Marneus Calgar somehow has real, big boy arms again, or is he still a tin man?

nareik wrote:
I think the most important question is whether Marneus Calgar somehow has real, big boy arms again, or is he still a tin man?

That was never a thing past Rogue Trader.

Don't be sad that Swarmlord ate his arms and legs.

nareik wrote:
Don't be sad that Swarmlord ate his arms and legs.

The Swarmlord nearly killed him, but he didn't lose his arms and legs.

Animus wrote:

nareik wrote:
Don't be sad that Swarmlord ate his arms and legs.

The Swarmlord nearly killed him, but he didn't lose his arms and legs.

I don't believe a 15 feet tall monster with four giant power swords can hit a 7 foot tall Space Marines without cutting some limbs. In a world of power weapons, severed limbs are probably a very common occurence.

I'm all in to going forward with Primaris, I just dont know how the 10th company fits in with all of it. Is the recruitment process the same? I think there would be alot of angry aspirants if they werent able to accept primaris enhancements...

There's also not alot of info about which companies the Primaris belong to. I was trying to figure which Companycolors to use on my homebrew Primaris, and just decided to go neutral and use a silver.

epronovost wrote:

Animus wrote:

nareik wrote:
Don't be sad that Swarmlord ate his arms and legs.

The Swarmlord nearly killed him, but he didn't lose his arms and legs.

I don't believe a 15 feet tall monster with four giant power swords can hit a 7 foot tall Space Marines without cutting some limbs. In a world of power weapons, severed limbs are probably a very common occurence.

There are a lot of things in 40k capable of taking off somebody's limbs, but we typically don't assume that it happens unless it's said to have happened.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm all in to going forward with Primaris, I just dont know how the 10th company fits in with all of it. Is the recruitment process the same? I think there would be alot of angry aspirants if they werent able to accept primaris enhancements...

There's also not alot of info about which companies the Primaris belong to. I was trying to figure which Companycolors to use on my homebrew Primaris, and just decided to go neutral and use a silver.

As I imagine 10th Company works, the Scouts are as normal, except the Sergeant, who is either a Marine who doesn't take the Primaris enhancement, or does and is just larger than the other Scouts. Then, when they receive their Black Carapace, the Scouts also get the other enhancements (Belisarian Furnace, etc etc) and become fully fledged Astartes,

At least, that's how it works in my head.

As far as companies are concerned, I imagine that Intercessors fill the same roles as Tacticals used to, Hellblasters and Aggressors the same as Devastators and Devastator Centurions, and Reivers and Inceptors fill the role Assault Marines and Assault Centurions did. The only things I struggle with are what goes in the 1st Company (I'd like to assume it's the Aggressors/Inceptors, or maybe just "veteran" Intercessors/Hellblasters without any different gear, but without a "veteran" Primaris unit, I guess we won't know.) and I sometimes fall into the idea of Reivers also being attached to the 10th Company as the "veterans" within that company.

So for me, 2nd-5th Companies would be 6x Intercessors, 2x Hellblasters or Aggressors, 2x Reivers or Inceptors, plus all the Redemptor Dreadnoughts and command staff, 6th-7th would be 10x Intercessors, 8th would be Reivers and Inceptors, 9th would be Hellblasters and Agressors, and 10th would be Scouts (and maybe Reivers? They would seem to fit there?). 1st is the only one I don't know.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm all in to going forward with Primaris, I just dont know how the 10th company fits in with all of it. Is the recruitment process the same? I think there would be alot of angry aspirants if they werent able to accept primaris enhancements...

There's also not alot of info about which companies the Primaris belong to. I was trying to figure which Companycolors to use on my homebrew Primaris, and just decided to go neutral and use a silver.

As I imagine 10th Company works, the Scouts are as normal, except the Sergeant, who is either a Marine who doesn't take the Primaris enhancement, or does and is just larger than the other Scouts. Then, when they receive their Black Carapace, the Scouts also get the other enhancements (Belisarian Furnace, etc etc) and become fully fledged Astartes,

At least, that's how it works in my head.

That would make sense. I really wish there was an option to upgrade the Scout Sergeant into Primaris in the rules.

Primaris don’t have scouts, they are trained up to battle standard via simulation and training in the current fluff. That doesn’t preclude them developing a scout equivalent in future, but for now they don’t.

The 10th company will still have scouts for making normal marines in the chapters that continue to make them.

In a Primaris only ultima founding chapter, I suspect all Primaris initiates doing simulation training would be under the auspices of the 10th company. Perhaps newly formed squad of Primaris units would still be under the 10th company for a while and would effectively become a reserve company for the reserve companies. Or maybe the 10th company in such chapters is entirely non-combatant and is purely a training company. There’s no fluff info yet though on Primaris chapter 10th companies, it’s a question GW has yet to answer.

I'm torn with Calgar. I sold off all my small marines (Calgar included) to start my UM again, led by Guilliman.
On one hand, I'm over the moon that I can buy my favourite character again, and include him in my Primaris army, but on the other hand, I'll have a hard time justifying both Guilliman AND Calgar.

In terms of the upgrade process, I really want to see Dante upgraded, I can see him going for it, it makes sense for him to make himself as powerful as possible to defend his half of the Imperium. I'd really want to see Azrael undergo the process too, but the DA seem to not really trust the Primaris, so their Chapter Master becoming one could go down badly.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the future holds, but in the mean time, I need to repaint some of my marines into a successor chapter to justify Guilliman being with Calgar (Some sort of coalition force of his sons?) But I'm most excited to rename my plasma pistol wielding third company Captain to Fabian again!

robbienw wrote:
Primaris don’t have scouts, they are trained up to battle standard via simulation and training in the current fluff.

Where is this info from? I don't recall it saying so in the codex.

 Crimson wrote:

robbienw wrote:
Primaris don’t have scouts, they are trained up to battle standard via simulation and training in the current fluff.

Where is this info from? I don't recall it saying so in the codex.

From what I know, it's how the first lot of Primaris (as in, the ones from the Heresy) were trained, but I can't say that it's how they're trained still.

The first generation of Primaris were trained like that, but the new ones I think are trained like normal.