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Reason I ask is after the reveal of UR025 in Blackstone fortress, it raises some interesting questions about if there could be any other men of iron hiding out in the Imperium. Now before I go full tinfoil here, keep in mind this is pure speculation right now. I'm just going off little clues that have existed in the lore and thinking of how the MOI could be doing it. Anyhow, onto the conspiracy theory.

For those unfamiliar with what Kastellans are, these are the Dakkabots you see admech players run all the time. They are anchient designs that predate the imperium and many forgeworlds claim to still use robots that existed in the times of the Dark age of technology.

The admech codex has always had little fluff blurbs talking about what can best be described as "freelance" groups of Kastellan robots who come and go, seemingly from nowhere, to help admech forces in time of great need. They supposedly don't have any followers, they just show up, do what the admech tell them to, then disappear without a trace. But this shouldn't be possible, the whole point of them is they are not free thinking, to the point they need a handler to swap their doctrina waifers. If they can come and go at will it hints something else is going on. They're considered very rare and omens of good fortune, and they often sport eccentric or unusual paint schemes compared to the average cult Mechanicus troops, lots of hazard stripes, bare metal or industrial colors, few cog emblems or the like. Many sport paintjobs that would not be out of place on an industrial worksite.

On top of that, there's the interesting new rumor about the new City Fight book. Namely how it's admech formation isn't just regular admech, but mentions Kastellan robots by name. If the MOI wanted to be involved in a critical event (like I don't know, one of the only stable routes across the great rift) they'd need a way to inconspicuously be involved. What better than Kastellans? The admech just worship them as rare pieces of archaeotech, and the robots are known to just kind of do weird stuff on their own when unsupervised like walk into lava or fire into a wall. All they'd need to do is blare some sort of "archmagos so and so has sent me here to collect data on this warzone," and many wouldn't think twice as long as they shoot at the bad guys and don't get in anyone's way.

Like I said it's a stretch but it raises some interesting questions. Whether the Kastellans themselves are MOI, or just being used as puppets by some sort of AI controlling them remotely would be anyone's guess. But if the men of iron are trying to come back, or pull some strings from the shadows, keeping the imperium in charge of the warp route benefits them no matter if theyre on our side or they want to wipe us out for good. They c learly don't have the power to take humanity or the other factions out or they would've done it already. So instead they let humanity do the dying and the hard work to clear the planet and only intervene when things seem dire, like they do now. Once the route is stable and secure they can continue to operate in the shadows and just hitch rides on Imperium transports and use their resources.

I highly doubt GW would out and out state that even if that's what is going on, but we'll have to see if they give us any hints. We know admech are present on the planet, so the biggest hint we'll get is the Kastellans paintjob. What do you guys think?

EDIT: another dead giveaway would be if the formation bonus in anyway allows the to act more autonomously. For example allowing them to change doctrina on their own or when one unit gets a change all units can choose to take it as well.

In by your command which AFAIK is the best look into a kastelan robot's mind, they do have a basic kind of AI but nothing more complex than canis rex when it broke into the iron warrior's stronghold and rescued sir hekthur. They could be faking it all of course but I doubt it.

Interesting hypothesis, and not baseless. Kastelan Robots are one of my favourite things about AdMech so I've read a bit about them. The codices tell us they're fighting for the Imperium since the HH, but we know they were built 20,000 years ago, when the Legio Cybernetica was supposedly a big thing already. That's when the Silica Animus and the war with the MOI happened, the consequences being AI being banned across the AdMech under death penalty (precisely torture until death follows) so it's kinda frown upon. At present time, Kastelan Robots are not AI, as you've said they're programmed by their Datasmith to execute a specific set of commands, like a computer, and they can do dumb stuff if left by themselves like continue purging a city weeks after everyone is dead or walk sternly through a lava lake.

And then there's the question of the mysterious Vigilante Robots, they're called "Obedients" in my 7th ed. Codex in French. They're said to come and go on battlefields on their own, letting the local Datasmiths command them for some time before leaving when the battle is done. Their arrival is seen as an omen of the Omnissiah, and as they're already seen as his angels people don't ask much questions and don't try to stop them. Who's going to stop a 6 meter-high warmachine from embarking on your ship anyway ? So they travel by their own means and do seemingly what pleases them. There's one of them in the 7th ed. Codex that was found on a Space Hulk doing heck-knows-what.

So what are these "Obedients" ? There was a thread here a while ago discussing this, people suggested they may have been more advanced Robots programmed for a specific and more complex task, and they've been doing that since then. Like "Help the Adeptus Mechanicus" and there you have a Robot that will apply his own logical pattern to help the Adeptus Mechanicus, whatever the consequences. He will learn of an archeotech somewhere, mark it as priority mission and embark on a 250 years mission to acquire it by himself, and there you have a Kastelan Robot in a Space Hulk, for example.

But as you pointed out, they could be Robots with a form of AI, either built with it, or installed in them by someone else. They're then free to roam around saying "Greetings, fellow servants of the Omnissiah" and do their own thing, knowing nobody will check on them as they're living relics. The mission of UR025 is not that different from what some Obedients could be doing, it's just that we know what that specific robot's mission is, enter the Blackstone Fortress. Kastelan Robots could be controlled to go to some places like that, and if there is a battle nearby, they could be helping because they need to ensure a ride afterwards, or because AdMech's victory needs to happen.

So for the time being we don't know what they're up to and why they're like that. My theory at first was that they were just more advanced Robots with a more complex program that have been doing their latest command for millenia because their handler is dead or something. But with the story of UR025 similarities are indeed striking. We still don't know exactly what aspect the MOI took, so it might be possible that their bodies are just disguises for their core code, and that they can swap given the occasion.

I'll start by saying that I haven't read UR025's fluff in Blackstone Fortress, but do we know that an individual Man of Iron is a single robot/entity? It's not clear from "The Journal of Keeper Cripias", 'Pax Imperialis' (in Warhammer Monthly 36) has a single AI controlling multiple bodies, and 'Death of Integrity' has an AI controlling a starship. Could Kastellans contain a fragment or shard of a Man of Iron?

I have always suspected the kastellan were a proper dark age men of iron design, and that the dark age ones the mechanicus have had their AI brain units taken out and replace with the non ai doctrine wafer brains by human dark age forces who managed to shut them down and use them against the rebel AI. And then newer ones built later were just built as non AI.

I also suspect the roaming Kastellans you describe were men of iron who escaped the AI wars and still are AI, probably because they are ones that remained loyal to humans and still show up when they can to fight for mankind.

robbienw wrote:
I also suspect the roaming Kastellans you describe were men of iron who escaped the AI wars and still are AI, probably because they are ones that remained loyal to humans and still show up when they can to fight for mankind.

Either that or they were badly programmed - you can't take & hold coordinates on a destroyed planet, or act as bodyguard for a Magos who's been dead a thousand years.

It could also be much more self serving, the surviving MOI "serve" as a form of cover. By protecting, and aiding the Admech they appear to be "good" robots.

Regimental Standard: How to Spot an Abominable Intelligence

Thankfully, Munitorum just released a paper on this very subject:

https://regimental-standard.com/2018/11/28/how-to-spot-an-abominable-intelligence/

In short - no, they are not. Just look at their chests

Well I'm glad that is cleared up.

Short answer:

No. UR-025 is much smaller than a Kastelan Robot. He fits on a 32mm base while the Kastelans are on 60s.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Short answer:

No. UR-025 is much smaller than a Kastelan Robot. He fits on a 32mm base while the Kastelans are on 60s.

Because if there's anything we know about computer software like artificial intelligences, it's that their hardware is always identically sized.

I mean, whose phone is smaller than their desktop? That would be silly.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Short answer:

No. UR-025 is much smaller than a Kastelan Robot. He fits on a 32mm base while the Kastelans are on 60s.

Because if there's anything we know about computer software like artificial intelligences, it's that their hardware is always identically sized.

I mean, whose phone is smaller than their desktop? That would be silly.

The question isn't "are the Kastelan Robots hiding Artificial Intelligences within their bodies?"--it's "could the Kastelan Robots be Men of Iron in disguise?".
The answer is "No." because of the size specifically. Nothing in UR-025's background suggests that it has swapped bodies with something else.

A lot of people thought UR-025 was a much bigger model than he actually is so I can understand the theory.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Short answer:

No. UR-025 is much smaller than a Kastelan Robot. He fits on a 32mm base while the Kastelans are on 60s.

Because if there's anything we know about computer software like artificial intelligences, it's that their hardware is always identically sized.

I mean, whose phone is smaller than their desktop? That would be silly.

The question isn't "are the Kastelan Robots hiding Artificial Intelligences within their bodies?"--it's "could the Kastelan Robots be Men of Iron in disguise?".
The answer is "No." because of the size specifically. Nothing in UR-025's background suggests that it has swapped bodies with something else.

A lot of people thought UR-025 was a much bigger model than he actually is so I can understand the theory.

So you are going with the theory that the Men of Iron, rather than describing an entire class of artifical intelligence, were in fact all using exactly the same hardware?

Because I can disprove that with a quote from a novel (First and Only) where the Men of Iron present are explicitly described as having two human-like eyes, which UR-025 demonstrably lacks.

Therefore, there were different models of Men of Iron, and the term "Men of Iron" describes an entire class or faction of self-aware machines, possibly ranging from space warships to nanobots.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

So you are going with the theory that the Men of Iron, rather than describing an entire class of artifical intelligence, were in fact all using exactly the same hardware?

I'm going with the "theory" that GW says he's a Man of Iron. So he's a Man of Iron.

It's in black and fricking white in the Blackstone background book man.

I get that "First and Only" had them appearing differently, but that book is also older than some players are now. Lore's been changed a few times over for various bits and bobs in the older novels.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

So you are going with the theory that the Men of Iron, rather than describing an entire class of artifical intelligence, were in fact all using exactly the same hardware?

I'm going with the "theory" that GW says he's a Man of Iron. So he's a Man of Iron.

It's in black and fricking white in the Blackstone background book man.

I get that "First and Only" had them appearing differently, but that book is also older than some players are now. Lore's been changed a few times over for various bits and bobs in the older novels.

Given the following premises:
1) Men of Iron are artificial intelligences and therefore computer programs.
2) Computer programs can run on different kinds of hardware.

Which do you think is more likely:
All the Men of Iron were exactly identical in shape and size, and other, independent former-man-made artificial intelligences in the fluff (such as the Castigator-class Titan, Slaughtersong battleship, and the two-eyed robots in First and Only) are not Men of Iron even when they are called that explicitly,
-or-
Men of Iron varied in shape and size wildly, utilizing bodies built to their specific function, ranging from the Castigator-class Titan and Slaughtersong space battleship to a basic, two-eyed human body or even an industrial robot named UR-025.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

So you are going with the theory that the Men of Iron, rather than describing an entire class of artifical intelligence, were in fact all using exactly the same hardware?

I'm going with the "theory" that GW says he's a Man of Iron. So he's a Man of Iron.

It's in black and fricking white in the Blackstone background book man.

I get that "First and Only" had them appearing differently, but that book is also older than some players are now. Lore's been changed a few times over for various bits and bobs in the older novels.

Old lore as it may be, that doesn't change the fact that Men of Iron *could* have different designs.

GW has all but flat out said that UR025 is a Man of Iron. Sure. Does that mean that all Men of Iron look like UR025? It would be short-sighted to think that way. It would be like saying that all Tech-priests must look the same, because they're all Tech-priests... I find that argument to be a strange thing to assert, when there's so many possible variations on everything all across the Lore. Space Marines = Tacticals and Terminators. Same thing, different appearance and gear. Tau = Crisis suits and Riptides, both are Tau Mech suits but are radically different.

 Thadin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

So you are going with the theory that the Men of Iron, rather than describing an entire class of artifical intelligence, were in fact all using exactly the same hardware?

I'm going with the "theory" that GW says he's a Man of Iron. So he's a Man of Iron.

It's in black and fricking white in the Blackstone background book man.

I get that "First and Only" had them appearing differently, but that book is also older than some players are now. Lore's been changed a few times over for various bits and bobs in the older novels.

Old lore as it may be, that doesn't change the fact that Men of Iron *could* have different designs.

GW has all but flat out said that UR025 is a Man of Iron. Sure. Does that mean that all Men of Iron look like UR025? It would be short-sighted to think that way. It would be like saying that all Tech-priests must look the same, because they're all Tech-priests... I find that argument to be a strange thing to assert, when there's so many possible variations on everything all across the Lore. Space Marines = Tacticals and Terminators. Same thing, different appearance and gear. Tau = Crisis suits and Riptides, both are Tau Mech suits but are radically different.

Indeed, it's like saying "my dog is white, therefore all dogs are white." We have one example of a Men of Iron miniature, then several examples in the fluff of Men of Iron and other DAoT-era artificial intelligences that don't look like that miniature. Are we to assume all those references have been retconned, or are we to assume that the single example of a Man of Iron we have in miniature form is not the sum total of the Men of Iron's look?

 Thadin wrote:

Old lore as it may be, that doesn't change the fact that Men of Iron *could* have different designs.

Since it's a concept that hasn't really been explored, beyond "The Men of Iron came after the Men of Stone"...sure, they could. But that is not relevant to the discussion at hand.

The OP asked if Kastelan Robots could be Men of Iron in disguise. Until we know that there's other designs of them? The answer is "No".

GW has all but flat out said that UR025 is a Man of Iron. Sure.

Quote p17 of Blackstone Fortress' Background book:

But in truth, the robot is far more ancient than anyone realises. Its origins date back to the Dark Age of technology, when Mankind built thinking machines that eventually turned violently upon their masters. Known as the Men of Iron, these sentient robots were all but wiped out.

They literally say it's a Man of Iron. Black and white.

Does that mean that all Men of Iron look like UR025? It would be short-sighted to think that way. It would be like saying that all Tech-priests must look the same, because they're all Tech-priests... I find that argument to be a strange thing to assert, when there's so many possible variations on everything all across the Lore. Space Marines = Tacticals and Terminators. Same thing, different appearance and gear. Tau = Crisis suits and Riptides, both are Tau Mech suits but are radically different.

Until we know the following?
a) There's more than just UR-025 left in existence.
b) There's more than just UR-025's "class" of Man of Iron.

The argument is as valid as anything else, especially arguments that have to reach for "individuals known for customizing their bodies to their own specifications" and silly generalizations to make a point.

Those Tacticals and Terminators? If you take them out of their armor and roles--they're both going to be Space Marines.
The Crisis Suits and Riptides? They're both classified as Battlesuits. You'd have had more of an argument if you chose the Stormsurge, which is one of the few Tau "suits" that don't actually have the "Battlesuit" keyword and are classified instead as "Ballistic Suits".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Indeed, it's like saying "my dog is white, therefore all dogs are white." We have one example of a Men of Iron miniature, then several examples in the fluff of Men of Iron and other DAoT-era artificial intelligences that don't look like that miniature. Are we to assume all those references have been retconned, or are we to assume that the single example of a Man of Iron we have in miniature form is not the sum total of the Men of Iron's look?

What all references do we really have though?

I know "First and Only".
There's a short story called "The Journal of Keeper Cripias" from the 3rd edition rulebook that I don't have access to.
The "Perpetual" audiodrama is listed on Lexicanum as another one, but it seems like it is only a passing reference to the Men of Iron's usage of weapons not a descriptive one of the Men of Iron themselves. This was the most recent until now, published in December 2016.

And now we have Blackstone Fortress.

What am I supposed to do, ignore Blackstone Fortress literally saying "THIS IS A MAN OF IRON" in favor of a book published quite some time ago that described a Chaos tainted artefact?

Don't forget the quite horrific Pax Imperialis comic.

Kanluwen, I think that the message has gotten confused at some point during this argument. Your initial post made it seem as though you were asserting that the only model of Men of Iron was what UR025 was, and that there was no others.

We're not saying to disregard the new lore, in favor of old lore as your interpretation of the argument would seem to be. Both pieces of lore can exist at once, and do not contradict eachother.

To sum things up on my stance; UR025 is a Man of Iron, BUT, there are still other forms that they can take and are not limited to one design. This argument would be backed up by previous lore that has not been retconned, and new lore that states that UR025 is a Man of Iron.

In addition, the OPs hypothesis of Kastellan Robots often behaving in strange manners, in ways that are not that dissimilar to how UR025 behaves in his deception of the Imperium, acting as a loyal Automaton. It's an interesting take, that I don't think can so easily be given a hard 'no' to, until there is more supporting lore. We know that UR025 has tricked Imperials in to believing it's nothing more than an automaton on a mission. Erratically behaving Kastellan's, machines of an ancient design, could be tricking Imperials as well.

I don't understand what seems to be a deliberate misconstruing of our argument. I've not stated that UR025 isn't a Man of Iron.

Hmm, interesting possibility here:

Anyone see the battlestar galactica reboot? Remember how boomer had sleeper programming that let her think she was human until it activated and made her act under cylon control?

Suppose the robots actually do have an AI system, even one from the men of iron, but it is kept dormant until triggered by certain circumstances?

So they could act like mindless robots most of the time but only at certain times their true AI cuts in and maybe makes them take certain actions, possibly very subtle ones.

 Thadin wrote:
I've not stated that UR025 isn't a Man of Iron.

But it has an Aquila on it...

(-:

 Thadin wrote:
Kanluwen, I think that the message has gotten confused at some point during this argument. Your initial post made it seem as though you were asserting that the only model of Men of Iron was what UR025 was, and that there was no others.

My "assertion" is that this is a Man of Iron. It is the only visible example we have had of one. First and Only is a novel, with no artwork that accompanied it.

We're not saying to disregard the new lore, in favor of old lore as your interpretation of the argument would seem to be. Both pieces of lore can exist at once, and do not contradict eachother.
To sum things up on my stance; UR025 is a Man of Iron, BUT, there are still other forms that they can take and are not limited to one design. This argument would be backed up by previous lore that has not been retconned, and new lore that states that UR025 is a Man of Iron.

And I think that your "interpretation of the argument" fails to understand the OP's question.

He asked if Kastelans are Men of Iron "in disguise", like UR-025.
I said they can't be.
Why? Because the size of the two are different.

He didn't ask "Could the Kastelans have been a type of Man of Iron?" or "Could the Kastelans be housing Abominable Intelligences?".

It's also worth noting that the mention of a "formation" of Kastelan Robots? That was a thing last edition in the Cult Mechanicus book. I personally think getting excited over it now is a bit silly as it likely is just something allowing for the Datasmiths to act as HQs or the like.

In addition, the OPs hypothesis of Kastellan Robots often behaving in strange manners, in ways that are not that dissimilar to how UR025 behaves in his deception of the Imperium, acting as a loyal Automaton. It's an interesting take, that I don't think can so easily be given a hard 'no' to, until there is more supporting lore. We know that UR025 has tricked Imperials in to believing it's nothing more than an automaton on a mission. Erratically behaving Kastellan's, machines of an ancient design, could be tricking Imperials as well.

Except they're not. Read the fluff on the Kastelan(there is only one 'L' in there) sometime. The ones that are being referred to in the OP?

It spells out that if they don't get their data wafers exchanged, they'll continue the same tasks ad infinitum. They'll stride into lakes of lava, butcher their way through cities after destroying the insurrectionists they're sent after.

The weird color schemes etc are because some of these robots do date back to the Dark Age of Technology or the Heresy, and since they're treated as revered relics do you really think a backwards organization like the AdMech is going to start impeding the progress of what they consider to be avatars of the Omnissiah?

I don't understand what seems to be a deliberate misconstruing of our argument. I've not stated that UR025 isn't a Man of Iron.

And you're failing to understand my argument.

UR025 is the ONLY physical example of a Man of Iron we have. Period.
The bit from "First and Only"? It can be written off as the STC being corrupted by prolonged Chaos taint.

I'm kind of confused where you're coming from here Kanluwen. What I mean by "in disguise" is just that some Kastellans could be acting like mindless robots to fool the Imperium. It's what UR025 is doing, so I'm not entirely sure where I'm losing you there. I'm not suggesting each Kastellan has a UR025 inside piloting it or they're wearing a pair of Groucho Marx glasses. I guess the better phrase would've been "pretending to be mindless robots" but I felt like I made sense there. My bad. I don't see how size would be the one thing that forbids them from being men of iron. There are many little cues about how they're designed where you can tell they drew similar inspiration. People come in all shapes and sizes and we can't just swap out arms and legs with a few lugnuts. I would find it very hard to believe every potential man of iron was identical and built the same. In order to be an army capable of causing the downfall of humanity at it's ultimate peak, they'd need a wide variety of designs to fill different roles. For every walking tank like the Kastellan you'd need a smaller one capable of navigating human habitats like UR025. Not to mention robots capable of logistics, repairs, transportation, and all the other odd jobs an army would need from manufacturing supplies to mopping the floor.

Also, you are correct, they are mindless until they get their data waifers exchanged. Except for that whole subclass of robots, which get a full 2 page spread in the codex, that show up from nowhere, allow themselves to be bossed around, then disappear without a trace. Allow me to reiterate that.

1.they show up without notice, with no followers or datasmiths. Nobody was swapping the waifers, nobody presumably transported them there, etc. They just show up, unbidden, to the point that the mechanicus see it as a gift from their god, a divine moment of intervention. And it's not like someone would cart these across the Galaxy and then just lose them while they stopped to get gas or just have them fall off a truck. These are priceless relics. If they were going to show up somewhere there would be followers, datasmiths, enginseers, the works.

2.they allow the Mechanicus to tell them what to do. Note the codex says that verbatim. "They will allow themselves to be directed by local tech-priests until the battle is won, after which they disappear once more."

Which brings us to number 3. They disappear without a trace, sometimes for up to hundreds of years.

You are not wrong, they are supposed to be mindless autonomatons that rely on a handler. But if so, why are there some that randomly show up out of thin air? Being left unsupervised could explain potentially losing them, such as the classic lava example which I mention in my post, but how the heck are these things just happening to show up where they're needed? If I'm drunk as a skunk and lost in downtown Flagstaff, my car doesn't magically appear and drive me home, nor if I'm hungry does my stove magically turn on and start cooking me some food. Simply being left on the wrong mode and accidentally showing up right where they're needed is such laughably small odds that I don't think its possible, and that's if they were only limited to one planet.

I'm not saying every single Kastellan is sentient, in fact I'd argue most aren't. But the pre imperium ones? Those have a good chance. And those are the ones that tend to have the more industrial schemes and show up out of nowhere. Are the others completely brainless, or just waiting for some special code to "awaken" them I couldn't tell you, but I just see too many hints to not think at least a few could be something more than just mindless robots.

Heck, I'll type the whole paragraph I got this idea from, source is page 24, 8th edition codex



Yes, UR025 is pretty much the only time GW out and out stated "yes, this guy is a man of iron", the others being older lore or weird exceptions. What I'm saying is that it is possible the Kastellans are doing it too. GW doesn't need to just take a massive rubber stamp to everything in the lore and say "yep, this is absolutely a man of iron, 100% approved" for it to be possible. Isn't how a great deal of 40k lore used to be written? You know, like how GW has never outright stated how the tyranids showed up in the Galaxy, or how nobody really knows who the Orks forbears the "brain Boyz" were, or how nobody knows what was said between guilleman and the emperor when guilleman got resurrected by that crazy eldar chick and went home to see Dad after a 10,000 year nap. Like how nobody really knows what is living in Mars' basement, how nobody knows who the legion of the damned are, why nobody knows who the missing two legions are. The same reason why I hate the Horus heresy series and think it was one of the worst things to happen to the setting.

What I'm saying is that a little mystery is a good thing, that this is something that I like about the newer lore for once and it does something a lot of 40k lore hasn't done for me lately. it's a mystery. It makes you ask questions that have major ramifications if true. It helps give that feeling that mankind's enemies could lurk around every corner, that there is more out there than we can even imagine. Heck we don't even know if they're truly on our side or just using us. That's really frickin cool and I like that, and I wish GW did it more. By giving these breadcrumbs here and there, you can connect dots and make these crazy theories like mine, which helps flesh out the universe and make this setting unique. I didn't need to know Ollanious Pious was a perpetual. I didn't need to know a blow by blow shakedown of how the betrayl at Istvaan went. I didn't want to know what toothbrush Horus legionary #352 was using on m30.653 on a Tuesday morning at 8:42 AM. I just enjoy some mystery in the setting.

Also, my phone auto corrects Kastellan and I can't get it to stop, so I just gave up and let it have that one. Trust me it bugs me too. It also randomly just accidentally words for no reason at times.

You have my sympathies on the autocorrect issue.

Have you tried to appease the Machine-Spirit with libations and sweat-meats?

 Kanluwen wrote:


He asked if Kastelans are Men of Iron "in disguise", like UR-025.
I said they can't be.
Why? Because the size of the two are different.

Lol, let me try and apply this infallible logic!

Was Jabba the Hut in Return of the Jedi really puppeteers in disguise?
I say he can't be.
Why? Because the size of the two are different.

Holy smokes you're right. . . Star Wars really was a documentary! :p