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This isn't an anti guilleman rant.

I am wondering if guilleman has already blown his chance to save mankind and accomplish a Nobel end.

While I don't doubt he has good and noble intentions and sincerely wants the best for humanity with little if any selfish motives, he's already done something that may doom his efforts.

He broke his word of honor to cypher.

Now basically guilleman gets revived and sets off to Terra, has an epic Odyssey fraught with hardship and peril, then ends up captured by his enemies. Cypher comes out of nowhere and offers to aid him if he will help cypher gain an audience with the emperor. Guilleman agrees, cypher uoholds his end of the deal, saves guilleman and the non red shirts among his party and they reach earth together.

Then guilleman basically says "Just kidding! " to cypher and has him imprisoned, breaking his word.

Cypher escapes soon after, presumably leaving some nasty things about guilleman written on his cell wall.

But the fact is guilleman broke his word, and since wh40k is epic level saga material, we have to look at it in those terms. In epic sagas when a hero of group of heroes break their word they usually suffer consequences.

In the old Norse religion Asgard and he Norse gods fell after breaking their word several times, essentially committing several dishonorable acts. They were by and large good and heroic but even gods had to answer for enough dishonorable acts. They were finally destroyed by their enemies and their realm fell, because they lied, broke their word, cheated and other dishonorable things.

So does the fact guilleman gave and broke his word to cypher mean his good intentions and noble ambitions are now doomed?

And look i'm not condemning ol' bobby here. He was in a desperate situation, I grant that. And cypher isn't exactly the most trustworthy guy in the galaxy. He is shadier than 10,000 acres of oak trees. If you handed him a sack of 3 dollar bills he'd probably give you back a handful of 9's.

But he offered aix to guilleman, and Mr. Nobility made a pact. Then he broke it after cypher upheld his end perfectly. Does that cast dishonor on guilleman and everything be does afterwards?

Maybe he could have asked dad about cypher, you know like "Oh, there's this guy called cypher who wants to see you, and he really helped me out of a crisis. Should I let him in? Do you want to see him? "

I'm just asking what peolle think here. Will guilleman's one dishonorable act poison all he wants to do?

Guilliman didn't break his word, he never promised Cypher a time frame in which he would be allowed before the Throne or promise that he was allowed to enter the throne room armed. If Cypher had waited in his cell he may very well have been allowed.

Has GW even addressed this after the third gathering storm book ? I feel like Cypher escaped and the Fallen being in public should have been a huge thing and then it was just forgotten about.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Has GW even addressed this after the third gathering storm book ? I feel like Cypher escaped and the Fallen being in public should have been a huge thing and then it was just forgotten about.

The Custodes Codex has them out hunting him, following a trail into Imperium Nihilius. The Dark Angels are still on the look out as well.

Techpriestsupport wrote:But the fact is guilleman broke his word, and since wh40k is epic level saga material, we have to look at it in those terms.

No it isn't, so we don't.

40k is the opposite of an epic saga. Its nihilistic and dystopian, where nothing you do matters and can never matter.

This is the bloody tagline for the setting:

Warhammer 40000 wrote:
For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium, for whom a thousand souls die every day, for whom blood is drunk and flesh eaten. Human blood and human flesh – the stuff of which the Imperium is made. To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of those times.

It is a universe you can live today – if you dare – for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope. If you want to take part in the adventure, then prepare yourself now. Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.

But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed…

Keep in mind, too. Roboute isn't 'Mr Nobility,' thats a profound and fundamental misunderstanding of what he was made to be. He's the Practical Politician, where the only thing that matters is what works.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
This isn't an anti guilleman rant.

I am wondering if guilleman has already blown his chance to save mankind and accomplish a Nobel end.

While I don't doubt he has good and noble intentions and sincerely wants the best for humanity with little if any selfish motives, he's already done something that may doom his efforts.

He broke his word of honor to cypher.

Now basically guilleman gets revived and sets off to Terra, has an epic Odyssey fraught with hardship and peril, then ends up captured by his enemies. Cypher comes out of nowhere and offers to aid him if he will help cypher gain an audience with the emperor. Guilleman agrees, cypher uoholds his end of the deal, saves guilleman and the non red shirts among his party and they reach earth together.

Then guilleman basically says "Just kidding! " to cypher and has him imprisoned, breaking his word.

Cypher escapes soon after, presumably leaving some nasty things about guilleman written on his cell wall.

But the fact is guilleman broke his word, and since wh40k is epic level saga material, we have to look at it in those terms. In epic sagas when a hero of group of heroes break their word they usually suffer consequences.

In the old Norse religion Asgard and he Norse gods fell after breaking their word several times, essentially committing several dishonorable acts. They were by and large good and heroic but even gods had to answer for enough dishonorable acts. They were finally destroyed by their enemies and their realm fell, because they lied, broke their word, cheated and other dishonorable things.

So does the fact guilleman gave and broke his word to cypher mean his good intentions and noble ambitions are now doomed?

And look i'm not condemning ol' bobby here. He was in a desperate situation, I grant that. And cypher isn't exactly the most trustworthy guy in the galaxy. He is shadier than 10,000 acres of oak trees. If you handed him a sack of 3 dollar bills he'd probably give you back a handful of 9's.

But he offered aix to guilleman, and Mr. Nobility made a pact. Then he broke it after cypher upheld his end perfectly. Does that cast dishonor on guilleman and everything be does afterwards?

Maybe he could have asked dad about cypher, you know like "Oh, there's this guy called cypher who wants to see you, and he really helped me out of a crisis. Should I let him in? Do you want to see him? "

I'm just asking what peolle think here. Will guilleman's one dishonorable act poison all he wants to do?

To be honest, he's just a figure head at the moment. The indomitus crusade was his idea, but the Primaris had already been made. He hasn't done much to have blown it in the first place. He's done more to fix Ultramar than anything else.

I think the Primarchs are only mythic when regarded to each other. That's when all the “Paradise Lost” level story telling come out.

But when they interact with parts of the lore they are just narrative tools, deus ex machina. In that way I don't think Cyphers imprisonment will mean much. In fact not doing would have probably killed his chances at doing anything, as tryingbtonforce something like that over the Custodes was never going to be successful, and would have alienated them from supporting him.

What puzzles me is how Cypher with his deus-ex-ninja skills of escaping every single cell in the Imperium, no matter how well barred, didn't simply used these very same skills to break into the vicinity of the throne room. Surely if he was meant to see Big E he can dodge guards for long enough to be invited in...

I am wondering if guilleman has already blown his chance to save mankind and accomplish a Nobel end.

As in the Nobel Peace Prize? Or would he win for literature because of the Codex?

 Manchu wrote:

I am wondering if guilleman has already blown his chance to save mankind and accomplish a Nobel end.

As in the Nobel Peace Prize? Or would he win for literature because of the Codex?

I think he was trying to achieve "no bell end" status as he was sick of all of the unnecessary heat he and the Ultras seem to garner from the community.

 Irbis wrote:
What puzzles me is how Cypher with his deus-ex-ninja skills of escaping every single cell in the Imperium, no matter how well barred, didn't simply used these very same skills to break into the vicinity of the throne room. Surely if he was meant to see Big E he can dodge guards for long enough to be invited in...

Exactly my thoughts. Admittedly it could be that whatever he uses, presumably warp based, would trigger alarm if used in the inner throne room, and from Carrion Throne / Agents novels we know that the only official entry to the throne room is going to be hard for a single person to breach: 10 Custodes, 2 dreadnaughts and 2 titans may be beyond even Cypher, then in the throne room approach itself you've got 100 Custodes plus a score of automated systems.

Back to the original question, no he's not blown it, he's playing the long game and ultimately he's loyal to the Emperor's vision, problem is that is not what the Imperium is....... I think that's a more likely plot direction.

What if the mysterious power cypher uses is the emperor? What if he is actually in some way serving the emperor, but has to prove himself worthy to enter the emperor's presence with out his direct aid?

Cypher's magical escape ability only seems to work when he's in danger, and it only allows him to escape from that danger. It's not an at-will thing he can do to just walk through any locked door he feels like.