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Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

My wife asked for the list of Christmas demands so I presented her with a Forgeworld wishlist.

We got to talking and I mentioned there had been a price hike that only affects US customers. She thought that was odd, since they already expensive. She didn't understand why Games Workshop would only raise prices in North America and not for all their customers.

Which lead to the question, how much of a difference is there, and would it be cheaper to pick stuff up next time I'm in the UK. So we did some comparisons. The current exchange rate is $1 USD = £0.78 GBP.

- Mars Pattern Reaver: Sells for £480 in the UK, $740 in the US. The converted currency rate works out to $611, so you are paying about $120 more to order it through mail order.

- Reaver Titan Apocalypse Missile Launcher: Sells for £62 in the UK, $97 in the US. The converted currency rate works out to $79, so you are paying about $18 more to get it through mail order.

- Reaver Titan Powerfist - £74 in the UK, $115 in the US. Converted currency works out to $94, so you are paying $21 more.

I could go on. The US upcharge works out to about 18% across all items, which is significant. But it's not cost-of-airfare significant, airfare to London averages about $800 where I am. You would have to buy a lot of stuff for it to even out.

The break even point is around $4,000 right now, lower if you can find cheaper airfare. That's probably how much I would expect to spend on a Solar Auxilia force or a couple Titans.

That break even point is likely going to improve by April. While the cost of airfare should remain constant, the amount one could purchase with USD should go up to where the upcharge is closer to 31%. With converted currency, that would make the break even about $2800. That's about what I'd expect to pay for a modest Legion force with a Primarch, a few characters, some tanks, etc.

So my Christmas wishlist became a summer trip to the UK and spending money. The only downside is resin melts in the summer, which would only be a problem when I am back stateside.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






In a Trayzn pokeball

Don't forget Aus and NZ

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The hobby is actually hating GW.
 iGuy91 wrote:
You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
 Elbows wrote:
You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote:
Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Did you also factor in duty costs when you import the models back in the USA?

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Overread wrote:
Did you also factor in duty costs when you import the models back in the USA?


Customs Agents generally don't ask question about toys. So no.


   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Out of interest what are the numbers once you take into consideration the tax and duty and such?

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Overread wrote:
Out of interest what are the numbers once you take into consideration the tax and duty and such?


You pay a VAT when you buy stuff in the UK, which gets refunded when you leave. So you're avoiding US tax and getting back the taxes paid during your trip.

With regards to duties, I've brought stuff with me coming back from the EU before and never had to declare it. I'm not a lawyer but don't expect that would change.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The other option is to have a UK based relative, friend or such have the item shipped to them, then they onward ship it to you as it's probably cheaper than paying the GW Mark up.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Guy it, pack it, ship it to someone you trust here stateside to tuck the crate till you return and pick up. Or just buy a cheap suit case for a 30 bucks in the UK, pack all your purchases, and pay for an extra bag on the way home. Should only be about 70 bucks and that is what you might spend on shipping.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





You have a legitimate complaint here, I'll just state that first. But to correct you on a few bits:

1.
It's not just US, it's basically everyone outside of the UK. It's not persecuting one country, it's a new international payment model.

2.
The exchange rate with the UK is extremely good right now (from a US perspective), which makes the prices look worse than they otherwise would. A big part of it is the hit our currency took after the Brexit vote. This pendulum constantly swings and will (hopefully for us) swing back the other way before too long.

I remember a time when it was $2 to the £1. If that were the case right now with those prices, it would actually be cheaper to buy in America than in the UK.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/04 17:14:56


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Stux wrote:
You have a legitimate complaint here, I'll just state that first. But to correct you on a few bits:

1.
It's not just US, it's basically everyone outside of the UK. It's not persecuting one country, it's a new international payment model.

2.
The exchange rate with the UK is extremely good right now (from a US perspective), which makes the prices look worse than they otherwise would. A big part of it is the hit our currency took after the Brexit vote. This pendulum constantly swings and will (hopefully for us) swing back the other way before too long.

I remember a time when it was $2 to the £1. If that were the case right now with those prices, it would actually be cheaper to buy in America than in the UK.


Citibank's High Net Worth unit is advising clients the GBP will exchange next summer in a range between $1.11 and $.092. It should get close to this range by April.

Regardless of whether or not Brexit actually happens, more currency is being put into circulation to make UK exports more attractive internationally. I think this is a hedge against the economic impact of Brexit, but the weak pound concerns me for other reasons. It affects most African currencies in a way that makes them stronger, which cuts down on their export and trade power.

Now, I didn't pay too much attention to the price increase in the US, maybe what I need to learn is what the difference was before. But I do know I like the wallpaper in the pubs and will probably do this even if the data about the pound proves unfounded.

   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 techsoldaten wrote:
 Stux wrote:
You have a legitimate complaint here, I'll just state that first. But to correct you on a few bits:

1.
It's not just US, it's basically everyone outside of the UK. It's not persecuting one country, it's a new international payment model.

2.
The exchange rate with the UK is extremely good right now (from a US perspective), which makes the prices look worse than they otherwise would. A big part of it is the hit our currency took after the Brexit vote. This pendulum constantly swings and will (hopefully for us) swing back the other way before too long.

I remember a time when it was $2 to the £1. If that were the case right now with those prices, it would actually be cheaper to buy in America than in the UK.


Citibank's High Net Worth unit is advising clients the GBP will exchange next summer in a range between $1.11 and $.092. It should get close to this range by April.

Regardless of whether or not Brexit actually happens, more currency is being put into circulation to make UK exports more attractive internationally. I think this is a hedge against the economic impact of Brexit, but the weak pound concerns me for other reasons. It affects most African currencies in a way that makes them stronger, which cuts down on their export and trade power.

Now, I didn't pay too much attention to the price increase in the US, maybe what I need to learn is what the difference was before. But I do know I like the wallpaper in the pubs and will probably do this even if the data about the pound proves unfounded.


It's looking pretty bleak isn't it...

But yes, that's basically my point. They've set a price that protects them against currency fluctuations.

It's quite a time ago now, but 10 years ago £480 was about $770.

As someone in the UK, I really hope we see those days again!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Overread wrote:Did you also factor in duty costs when you import the models back in the USA?

Overread wrote:Out of interest what are the numbers once you take into consideration the tax and duty and such?


Zero. Our imports are duty-free up to $1,600.

Also, the UK prices are VAT-inclusive, which isn't supposed to be charged to non-UK customers. So not only are we paying an extra ~20% over the list price, we're paying ~20% over a price that includes a tax inapplicable to us. If I go in-person to the US store now (where I'm subject to US tax), I'd essentially be paying UK prices including UK VAT plus 20% markup plus our domestic sales tax.

I understand them wanting to set fixed prices rather than be subject to exchange rates, but do we really think they wouldn't hike up the price if we returned to exchange rates circa '05-'06 ($2.20+ USD to the GBP)?

   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





Dallas, TX

 techsoldaten wrote:
 Stux wrote:
You have a legitimate complaint here, I'll just state that first. But to correct you on a few bits:

1.
It's not just US, it's basically everyone outside of the UK. It's not persecuting one country, it's a new international payment model.

2.
The exchange rate with the UK is extremely good right now (from a US perspective), which makes the prices look worse than they otherwise would. A big part of it is the hit our currency took after the Brexit vote. This pendulum constantly swings and will (hopefully for us) swing back the other way before too long.

I remember a time when it was $2 to the £1. If that were the case right now with those prices, it would actually be cheaper to buy in America than in the UK.


Citibank's High Net Worth unit is advising clients the GBP will exchange next summer in a range between $1.11 and $.092. It should get close to this range by April.



Its currently $ 1.27= 1 pound; it was usually $1.6-1.7= 1 pound in the recent past before the Brexit.

I was at the FW HQ in the US at Grapevine during thxgiving, if I recall correctly, the FW products there are sold at the more expensive $ rate; If I'm wrong then you can find someone near the store there to buy and ship to you at a cheaper rate.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Big Mac wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 Stux wrote:
You have a legitimate complaint here, I'll just state that first. But to correct you on a few bits:

1.
It's not just US, it's basically everyone outside of the UK. It's not persecuting one country, it's a new international payment model.

2.
The exchange rate with the UK is extremely good right now (from a US perspective), which makes the prices look worse than they otherwise would. A big part of it is the hit our currency took after the Brexit vote. This pendulum constantly swings and will (hopefully for us) swing back the other way before too long.

I remember a time when it was $2 to the £1. If that were the case right now with those prices, it would actually be cheaper to buy in America than in the UK.


Citibank's High Net Worth unit is advising clients the GBP will exchange next summer in a range between $1.11 and $.092. It should get close to this range by April.



Its currently $ 1.27= 1 pound; it was usually $1.6-1.7= 1 pound in the recent past before the Brexit.

I was at the FW HQ in the US at Grapevine during thxgiving, if I recall correctly, the FW products there are sold at the more expensive $ rate; If I'm wrong then you can find someone near the store there to buy and ship to you at a cheaper rate.


Yeah, I remember. The UK used to be the most expensive country to visit in the EU. FW was selling in USD at NOVA and I assume that's going to be the practice for now on.

Question about the VAT: is that going to remain on UK purchases post-Brexit? As I understand it, that has to do with the EU, not the UK in particular. While I'm sure there's going to be a tax, I would assume the UK would have something more progressive that doesn't get charged to non-UK residents in the first place.

   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

 techsoldaten wrote:
You pay a VAT when you buy stuff in the UK, which gets refunded when you leave. So you're avoiding US tax and getting back the taxes paid during your trip.


I remember investigating this a few months ago when it came up. I believe you can only get the correct VAT return forms from participating retailers, of which GW is not one.

Edit: Relevant thing: https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/taxfree-shopping

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 19:13:06


The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 techsoldaten wrote:
 Big Mac wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 Stux wrote:
You have a legitimate complaint here, I'll just state that first. But to correct you on a few bits:

1.
It's not just US, it's basically everyone outside of the UK. It's not persecuting one country, it's a new international payment model.

2.
The exchange rate with the UK is extremely good right now (from a US perspective), which makes the prices look worse than they otherwise would. A big part of it is the hit our currency took after the Brexit vote. This pendulum constantly swings and will (hopefully for us) swing back the other way before too long.

I remember a time when it was $2 to the £1. If that were the case right now with those prices, it would actually be cheaper to buy in America than in the UK.


Citibank's High Net Worth unit is advising clients the GBP will exchange next summer in a range between $1.11 and $.092. It should get close to this range by April.



Its currently $ 1.27= 1 pound; it was usually $1.6-1.7= 1 pound in the recent past before the Brexit.

I was at the FW HQ in the US at Grapevine during thxgiving, if I recall correctly, the FW products there are sold at the more expensive $ rate; If I'm wrong then you can find someone near the store there to buy and ship to you at a cheaper rate.


Yeah, I remember. The UK used to be the most expensive country to visit in the EU. FW was selling in USD at NOVA and I assume that's going to be the practice for now on.

Question about the VAT: is that going to remain on UK purchases post-Brexit? As I understand it, that has to do with the EU, not the UK in particular. While I'm sure there's going to be a tax, I would assume the UK would have something more progressive that doesn't get charged to non-UK residents in the first place.


VAT in itself is not a European thing. They set some additional regulation on VAT, but leaving won't make a substantial difference there. UK VAT is set well above EU limits, if we wanted to reduce it there is no reason we couldn't have done so already.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Seattle, WA

 Stux wrote:


But yes, that's basically my point. They've set a price that protects them against currency fluctuations.


I'm no economist, but having a devalued currency makes it easier to sell things, so I'm not sure what they're trying to protect. By raising prices they make it harder to sell things. It's a clearly a cash grab, but I'm not sure it's going to work like they think they will.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






bogalubov wrote:
 Stux wrote:


But yes, that's basically my point. They've set a price that protects them against currency fluctuations.


I'm no economist, but having a devalued currency makes it easier to sell things, so I'm not sure what they're trying to protect. By raising prices they make it harder to sell things. It's a clearly a cash grab, but I'm not sure it's going to work like they think they will.


I'm no economist ether but it seems they are cooking the books because they used to charge vats taxs to the us. so they are building it in to the base price.

shady gak.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 Desubot wrote:
bogalubov wrote:
 Stux wrote:


But yes, that's basically my point. They've set a price that protects them against currency fluctuations.


I'm no economist, but having a devalued currency makes it easier to sell things, so I'm not sure what they're trying to protect. By raising prices they make it harder to sell things. It's a clearly a cash grab, but I'm not sure it's going to work like they think they will.


I'm no economist ether but it seems they are cooking the books because they used to charge vats taxs to the us. so they are building it in to the base price.

shady gak.


How is raising prices cooking the books? You might not like it, and rightly so, but it's open and honest. The price is the price, take it or leave it.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 Stux wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
bogalubov wrote:
 Stux wrote:


But yes, that's basically my point. They've set a price that protects them against currency fluctuations.


I'm no economist, but having a devalued currency makes it easier to sell things, so I'm not sure what they're trying to protect. By raising prices they make it harder to sell things. It's a clearly a cash grab, but I'm not sure it's going to work like they think they will.


I'm no economist ether but it seems they are cooking the books because they used to charge vats taxs to the us. so they are building it in to the base price.

shady gak.


How is raising prices cooking the books? You might not like it, and rightly so, but it's open and honest. The price is the price, take it or leave it.


Eh probably the wrong terminology. again not a money wizard. but adjusting the numbers so you still get the same amount of money you shouldn't of been getting in the first place from some places due to tax regulations is not honest or open.

the price isnt the price.

mind you, in all honestly i dont mind it tooooooooooo much considering most of the time i receive damaged or partially damaged product that i just get replaced so i end up covering the up charge anyway.

it just goes to show how much the physical product is actually worth to fw.

(also based on older practices. i know more recently they updated it to include specific state taxes like in California)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/04 23:40:48


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Have you thought about paying someone to buy it in the UK and then ship it to you? Perhaps even someone from this site could help you.

Could save you a lot of money. I assume that is legal.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Xenomancers wrote:
Have you thought about paying someone to buy it in the UK and then ship it to you? Perhaps even someone from this site could help you.

Could save you a lot of money. I assume that is legal.


Oh, I'm sure I could make that happen. Working out the difference in cost was an interesting mental exercise.

The travel doesn't bother me, I have a hundred other reasons to go there. Most of them are available on tap.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Far as I'm aware the only legal issue is that the parcel has the correct value (price) and content type declared on it so that when it enters the country it is correctly taxed.

Grey importing - buying a product in a different country territory and shipping then selling it in another country, is perfectly legal; but frowned upon by many companies. It's not just about price fixing**, but can also mess with things like warranties*
GW doesn't like it and won't deal trade to any 3rd party that ships outside of its region, so commercially its basically not possible and FW itself doesn't trade commercially with any 3rd parties (far as I'm aware). So there's no business doing it because there's basically very little to no actual profit (the savings made are tiny once you take out wages, taxes etc... ergo business expenses).


GW is even quite tame, companies like Nikon don't just block warranties on grey imported items (you have to either use 3rd party warranty or ship the item back to its source region); but they won't even repair a broken item outside of its territory (yes even if you are paying full price for the repair).


* Many big companies break their whole unit down into segments/territories. So the UK and USA would have different company blocks; so if a large number of people grey import into the USA and then claim warranty repairs its the US budget its eating into not the UK warranty budget.

**a term I don't always like because its more complex than price fixing suggests; and its somewhat a negatively loaded term to start with.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 techsoldaten wrote:
We got to talking and I mentioned there had been a price hike that only affects US customers. She thought that was odd, since they already expensive. She didn't understand why Games Workshop would only raise prices in North America and not for all their customers.


Mate I sympthise with your plight, I really do, but that right there is just about the most American thing you could possibly have said. The stereotype of Americans being completely blind to the fact that the rest of the world that isn’t America exists doesn’t need any more supporting evidence!

For those of us who live upside down the average price increase is about 40%, or 50% if you include the fact that we’re being charged VAT when we aren’t required to. But even we’re better off than our friends across the ditch - the Middle Earth Tax is even worse than the Australia Tax, and I think Singapore and/or Hong Kong might be as bad or worse too.

My recommendation would be either to ship it to someone in the UK then forward it on to the US - I did that recently and it cost me about US$50 to get a Warhound to Australia - or pack an extra suitcase on a trip to the UK. If you do the latter, two things - mix your FW purchases between that bag and your own travel bag so when you get back to your own shores it doesn’t look like you’re smuggling a bag of goods, and be sure to leave everything in their original packaging so you can claim a VAT refund at the airport.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 techsoldaten wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Have you thought about paying someone to buy it in the UK and then ship it to you? Perhaps even someone from this site could help you.

Could save you a lot of money. I assume that is legal.


Oh, I'm sure I could make that happen. Working out the difference in cost was an interesting mental exercise.

The travel doesn't bother me, I have a hundred other reasons to go there. Most of them are available on tap.

I'd look into it. Probably could get some chap to do the job for maybe 300 quid - which is way less than airfare and the hotel you are probably going to need for at least 1 night. If you want to travel there anyways - just do it - that way it's a win win and you don't really need to factor in the travel in your price calculations because it's technically a vacation.

I'm taking a trip to Scotland and stopping in Nottingham for kinda the same reason. Though I am not going to buying Rever Titans. Just so I can see the great Warhammer World. The Pilgrimage.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

kombatwombat wrote:
Mate I sympthise with your plight, I really do, but that right there is just about the most American thing you could possibly have said. The stereotype of Americans being completely blind to the fact that the rest of the world that isn’t America exists doesn’t need any more supporting evidence!


For some reason, I read that in the voice of Richard Roxburgh and pictured you dressed in the suit of one of those inspectors from Underbelly.

kombatwombat wrote:
For those of us who live upside down the average price increase is about 40%, or 50% if you include the fact that we’re being charged VAT when we aren’t required to. But even we’re better off than our friends across the ditch - the Middle Earth Tax is even worse than the Australia Tax, and I think Singapore and/or Hong Kong might be as bad or worse too.


The cost increases by 50% annually? Or you just pay 50% more than the United States?

I used employ a number of Australians and became well acquainted with the import taxes. Sending a laptop from here to there cost me over $1,000 just in fees for commercial goods.

kombatwombat wrote:
My recommendation would be either to ship it to someone in the UK then forward it on to the US - I did that recently and it cost me about US$50 to get a Warhound to Australia - or pack an extra suitcase on a trip to the UK. If you do the latter, two things - mix your FW purchases between that bag and your own travel bag so when you get back to your own shores it doesn’t look like you’re smuggling a bag of goods, and be sure to leave everything in their original packaging so you can claim a VAT refund at the airport.


Thank you for the suggestions. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to bring a suitcase and fill it with stuff while I'm over there.

I've brought stuff back before, Franz Karl Weber was liquidating their 40k stuff the last time I was in Zurich. 50% off meant I actually did fill a suitcase with Daemons, Space Marines and paint. I still have a lot of it in the original box.

In general, US Customs is not concerned about toys. They see a bunch of boxes and the most they want is to open a couple.

   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well. That's GW for you. The pricing system was created years and years ago.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Stux wrote:




VAT in itself is not a European thing. They set some additional regulation on VAT, but leaving won't make a substantial difference there. UK VAT is set well above EU limits, if we wanted to reduce it there is no reason we couldn't have done so already.


Out of personal interest what is the vat on GW products in the UK?

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

Karol wrote:
 Stux wrote:




VAT in itself is not a European thing. They set some additional regulation on VAT, but leaving won't make a substantial difference there. UK VAT is set well above EU limits, if we wanted to reduce it there is no reason we couldn't have done so already.


Out of personal interest what is the vat on GW products in the UK?


Vat is 20% on most UK goods. Some things get 0% but they are things like basic food, children's clothes etc.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




20% is not so bad we have 23% on most stuff and stuff like toys or models are considered luxury products and get a 24% vat.
I do envy the clothes 5% vat, we have it on 23% :(


Can't people just buy cheaper FW stuff from Russia or China. The stuff is often 50% cheaper or even more. I know that here almost no one buys FW stuff from UK, unless they want some specific new model or part to clone. All the w30k dudes buy their armies from local FW sellers or Russians. Much cheaper, quality is very good too.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
 
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