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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 01:27:45
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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I want to charge a model with a flamer that is 9.01" away. (thus no overwatch flamer). There's another enemy unit within 2" of that flamer. And that unit is 5.5" away. I declare a multi-charge with my single model. I roll a 6. I would fail to engage the flamer, but I can make it to the other unit. After I charge I can push in up to 3". I push in, and ... I am now within 1" of the flamer and slightly closer to the other unit that I had a legal charge. Does my model now get to swing away on the flamer?
Anyone see any issue with this logic?
It was pointed out to me that maybe I should have said that if I said I had rolled a 7, then my single model could be positioned 2.01" away from the flame and .9" away from unit B. Then during the 3" push in, I move to to be .75" from the flame and .5" from unit B.
Hows the logic look with the revised scenario?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 22:30:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 01:35:58
Subject: Re:Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I believe the only applicable rule is you must end your move closer to the model you declared a charge against. So if your base can be set .99 inches away from the closer unit on your charge move, and then .98" away on your pile in move and have a portion of its base within 1" of the flamer, it seems feasible.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 03:54:20
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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The important part is you cannot move farther away from the close unit after pile ins.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 08:00:36
Subject: Re:Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Only the first of your models you move has to be within 1" of the models you declared a charge upon. The other models can move around as you wish with the distance you rolled, but must remain in coherency. If the flamer unit is the closest to your models after charging you can indeed pile in to that unit to get within 1" and attack it. Pile in is on a model to model basis, so make sure the flamer is the closest model. Almost pro gaming has a nice video on youtube for melee shenanigans, check the spoiler.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 08:03:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 14:44:50
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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He had specified a single model, though. In this case, with the distances specified, the model wouldn't get to pile in on the flamer unit because there would be closer models in the other unit (the one he's within 1" of after the charge), and he wouldn't be able to move further away from the closest model there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 14:58:23
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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if you charge and end 0.9" away from target A
you pile-in 3" to rotate around A towards B getting to 0.8" away but now around the back of it ..
you probably won't get into combat range with B ... but can, if you kill A .. consolidate into B for free ..
it can attack you ... but it would then need to fall back and not shoot.
nothing wrong with the logic .. but it's debatable if you'd get into range to fight.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 15:01:03
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Norn Queen
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Reanimation_Protocol wrote:if you charge and end 0.9" away from target A
you pile-in 3" to rotate around A towards B getting to 0.8" away but now around the back of it ..
you probably won't get into combat range with B ... but can, if you kill A .. consolidate into B for free ..
it can attack you ... but it would then need to fall back and not shoot.
nothing wrong with the logic .. but it's debatable if you'd get into range to fight.
Correct, it's why you should never go into base to base contact in 8th, because you can't end up "closer" thus can't move, but if you're 0.1" away, you can move the full 3" as long as you end up 0.09" away from the model you were 0.1" away from.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 15:08:09
Subject: Re:Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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It depends on how the models are located to each other, but the way i described is possible.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 15:35:43
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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One unit was 9.01" away, the other was 5.5" away. The single model unit could only reach the 5.5" unit. At best, the charging unit is 3.01" - base size away from the flamer unit, and has to be within 1" of the other unit. Unless the model is a knight or something like that on a base larger than 2" there's no way for it to be able to move closer to the flamer unit while still not being any further than the closest model in the other unit that it charged.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 16:27:08
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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doctortom wrote:One unit was 9.01" away, the other was 5.5" away. The single model unit could only reach the 5.5" unit. At best, the charging unit is 3.01" - base size away from the flamer unit, and has to be within 1" of the other unit. Unless the model is a knight or something like that on a base larger than 2" there's no way for it to be able to move closer to the flamer unit while still not being any further than the closest model in the other unit that it charged.
I failed to notice that the charge happens with a single model. In that case its not possible to engage the flamer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 22:23:46
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Change that... lets say that I rolled a 7", thus putting me 2.01" away from the flamer, and I positioned myself so that I'm .99 inches away from unit B. The 3" 'push in' then happens, and I'm now .75" away from the flamer and .5" away from unit B. Can I direct all attacks towards the flamer? (this is a demon prince BTW, so thats a dead flamer if I can)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 22:31:55
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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No, charging units cannot attack units that they did not declare a charge on that turn. While you can get the flamer model/unit into combat, you cannot attack it unless you've selected to charge the unit, pinned the unit in combat for the next turn's fight phase, or the other player leaves the unit in combat.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 22:46:24
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Pieceocake wrote:No, charging units cannot attack units that they did not declare a charge on that turn. While you can get the flamer model/unit into combat, you cannot attack it unless you've selected to charge the unit, pinned the unit in combat for the next turn's fight phase, or the other player leaves the unit in combat.
He specifically mentioned a multi-charge.
Sazzlefrats wrote: I declare a multi-charge with my single model. I roll a 6. I would fail to engage the flamer, but I can make it to the other unit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 22:49:29
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Pieceocake wrote:No, charging units cannot attack units that they did not declare a charge on that turn. While you can get the flamer model/unit into combat, you cannot attack it unless you've selected to charge the unit, pinned the unit in combat for the next turn's fight phase, or the other player leaves the unit in combat.
He stated at the beginning that he was declaring a charge against both units.
As long as you are closer to the model that was the closest before the pile in, and you're not in base to base contact, you can adjust your position to try to get within an inch of a model in the flamer unit. . If you get within an inch of the flamer unit and you declared the charge against it beforehand, you can indeed take all your melee attacks against the flamer unit. Depending on how things are set up, you could even end up with your model closer to a model in the second unit than what was the closest one. That would mean that if the other model didn't die during the fighting phase, it would now be the closest model for purposes of consolidation and (if you keep it the closest), piling in the next turn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/06 22:54:16
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Awesome Sauce!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/12 16:30:51
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Dakka Veteran
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if you did not make the charge into the flamer unit during the charge move phase its a failed charge. Piling in will lock it in combat but you cannot attack it. ITS a failed charge.
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In a dog eat dog be a cat. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/12 16:33:39
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Norn Queen
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Lungpickle wrote:if you did not make the charge into the flamer unit during the charge move phase its a failed charge. Piling in will lock it in combat but you cannot attack it. ITS a failed charge.
That is not true. It's only a failed charge if you don't make it to within 1" of any models. If you charge a unit 9" away, but don't "make" it in, but later pile into them, you can attack them because you declared a charge against them, and that is all the rules care about.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/12 16:33:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/12 16:48:17
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Lungpickle wrote:if you did not make the charge into the flamer unit during the charge move phase its a failed charge. Piling in will lock it in combat but you cannot attack it. ITS a failed charge.
It is not a failed charge if the unit succeeds in charging one of the units he declares in a multicharge. As BCB states, if you succeed in charging another unit, but can legally make a pile in move that gets you within 1" of the unit you didn't reach, you are allowed to fight against that unit instead of the one you initially reached since you declared a charge against both.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/14 18:17:02
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Sneaky Lictor
oromocto
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I had this same thing happen to me in a tournament last weekend. I had a Flyrant 9.1" away from a brimstone horror with his blue scribe 2" just behind the brimstone. I declared a multicharge vs both and made a 10" charge. This put me just over 1" from the scribes but in for the brimstone. I then piled in my 3" (rotateing around the brimstone so I was .1" closer to it wile getting easily within 1" of the scribes. The demons player tryed to argue I failed the charge vs the the scribes so I couldn't attack them....he was ruled wrong and I got me some fiber for my tyrant's diet. :-)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/19 16:46:28
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Dakka Veteran
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When charging, in order for it to be successful your charging model must get within the 1 inch mark. If not its a failed charge.
Just re-read the charge rules. It goes on to say the 1st model moved MUST move to within 1 inch of a target unit.
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In a dog eat dog be a cat. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/19 17:03:19
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Lungpickle wrote:When charging, in order for it to be successful your charging model must get within the 1 inch mark. If not its a failed charge.
Just re-read the charge rules. It goes on to say the 1st model moved MUST move to within 1 inch of a target unit.
Thats a direct quote from #4 from charge phase. We all agree that must happen.
Then you go to the fight phase, #1 says if you are within 1" of a model that you declared a charge, you can then pile in up to 3". We are using that pile in part to stay within 1" of the model we contacted and swing around to contact the model that we really want to kill. And you also have to end up closer to the first model when you are done.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/25 19:29:50
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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BaconCatBug wrote:Reanimation_Protocol wrote:if you charge and end 0.9" away from target A
you pile-in 3" to rotate around A towards B getting to 0.8" away but now around the back of it ..
you probably won't get into combat range with B ... but can, if you kill A .. consolidate into B for free ..
it can attack you ... but it would then need to fall back and not shoot.
nothing wrong with the logic .. but it's debatable if you'd get into range to fight.
Correct, it's why you should never go into base to base contact in 8th, because you can't end up "closer" thus can't move, but if you're 0.1" away, you can move the full 3" as long as you end up 0.09" away from the model you were 0.1" away from.
True.
Getting in B2B is mostly a defensive move. For example if you 2CP interrupt the enemy charge, then you are probably going to pile in and declare B2B, so that he can't move around.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/26 17:00:11
Subject: Successfully charging a model too far away... is this one way around it?
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Spoletta wrote:
Getting in B2B is mostly a defensive move. For example if you 2CP interrupt the enemy charge, then you are probably going to pile in and declare B2B, so that he can't move around.
I like it.
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