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As a Dr. Who fan (Do NOT drag slams about dr. who into this!) I can't help noticing how similar space marines are to daleks.

Think I'm wrong? Well, let's look at them:

Both space marines and daleks start out as essentially normal humans.

Both are created by a half dead leader permanently wired into a life support chair.

Both are genetically engineered and enhanced to be viable warriors on harsh, contaminated battlefields.

Both are encased in and interfaced with powered, mechanized combat armor.

Both essentially live for war.

Both are deeply mentally conditioned to absolutely hate all beings who are not part of their collective.

Both seek the utter extermination of all "others".

Let the gloriously entertaining commentary begin!

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

Both space marines and daleks start out as essentially normal humans.

Every space marine starts as a human being with human experiences. Daleks were genetically engineered from original human stock, but that's it.

Both are created by a half dead leader permanently wired into a life support chair.

Fair, though the Davros was in the chair when he made the Daleks, and Davros can move around. The Emperor, not so much. Also Davros isn't a super psyker.

Both are genetically engineered and enhanced to be viable warriors on harsh, contaminated battlefields.

Eh, Daleks mostly hang around in their tin cans.

Both are encased in and interfaced with powered, mechanized combat armor.

Space Marines are in augmentation suits. Daleks are piloting small vehicles.

Both essentially live for war.

Nope. Space Marines live for their Brothers, Humanity and the Emperor, while Daleks live for Extermination - they'll happily nuke a whole planet and avoid the whole war thing if it's more efficient to kill stuff that way.

Both are deeply mentally conditioned to absolutely hate all beings who are not part of their collective.
Both seek the utter extermination of all "others".

Space Marines have dealt with Xenos diplomatically before. Daleks only do so as a deception to Exterminate!

So I'd say there are some similarities, but you're stretching it pretty hard.

Well!, I imagine a species being exterminated wimpy for existing would see little difference between space marines and daleks...

Also even when the imperium does deal with xenos they never abandon their drive to exterminate them, eventually.

EX-TERM-IN-ATUS!

I’ll get my coat...

Nope.

Marines are Space Knights. Daleks are mechanical molluscs. Change my mind.

Space Knights, LMAO. It's adorable how Space Marine players buy into their own agitprop.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Space Knights, LMAO. It's adorable how Space Marine players buy into their own agitprop.

Well, if you're going to be patronizing then at least do your homework and not assume I play SMs...

SM's are, at their most simple broken down level knights in space. Just like Daleks are essentially a mechanical mollusc (Are they not invertebrates in a hard shell?). There are clearly more subtleties and it goes deeper than this, looks like I thought incorrectly this would clear and people would be more astute. Obviously not.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Space Knights, LMAO. It's adorable how Space Marine players buy into their own agitprop.

I mean, it IS how GW market them? Are SM players wrong for calling a faction what it's marketed as?

What would you have called them?

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
As a Dr. Who fan (Do NOT drag slams about dr. who into this!) I can't help noticing how similar space marines are to daleks.

Think I'm wrong? Well, let's look at them:

Well if we look them this way ,we could say they were indentical to the knights that worked under the fisher king in Arthurian legends or the mountain knights that serv the cripple king from slavic legends. Breed for war, crippled ruler, fanatics , taken as children to join the ranks etc. It could be possible that it is a more general indo european thrope.

But there can be female daleks (but where does the milk come from).

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Space Knights, LMAO. It's adorable how Space Marine players buy into their own agitprop.

What would you have called them?

Fascists. Essentially, the Waffen SS in spaaaaaaace.

"Have you looked at our helmets, Brother? They've got skulls on them. Roboute, are we the bad guys?"

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Space Knights, LMAO. It's adorable how Space Marine players buy into their own agitprop.

What would you have called them?

Fascists. Essentially, the Waffen SS in spaaaaaaace.

"Have you looked at our helmets, Brother? They've got skulls on them. Roboute, are we the bad guys?"

It would do you well to read up on the history of feudal organization, the holy roman empire, and the waffen SS. As it seems like you know nothing about history if you think feudalistic space marines mirroring the organization of the Free Imperial Knights of the Holy Roman Emperor are somehow the Waffen SS in space, when the SS did not even hold individual plots of land or act as independent, sovereign polities within the German Reich. Especially when all Space Marines post-heresy run around in Kastenbrust styled power armor. But for one spouting memes and meme-history, I'd be surprised if you knew what Kastenbrust style even was.

The comparison is neither exact nor perfect, but then I didn't say it was. Stripped down, feudalism v. fascism is a distinction without any real difference. It would do you well to look at the overall picture and not get mired in the details.

Space Marines are the so-called 'elite' special forces of a totalitarian, fascistic regime. They are essentially, not exactly, the Waffen SS, in spaaaaaaace. 40K is Renoir, not Bosch.

Don't @ me. This isn't what this thread is for.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
The comparison is neither exact nor perfect, but then I didn't say it was. Stripped down, feudalism v. fascism is a distinction without any real difference. It would do you well to look at the overall picture and not get mired in the details.

Space Marines are the so-called 'elite' special forces of a totalitarian, fascistic regime. They are essentially, not exactly, the Waffen SS, in spaaaaaaace. 40K is Renoir, not Bosch.

Don't @ me. This isn't what this thread is for.

They aren't essentially in any means. It would do you well to actually read on the subjects and comprehend them instead of restoring to pop history and conflating things based purely on the most basal comparisons possible. While also letting important details slip past, such as 40k being nothing more than a rough port of Warhammer Fantasy into space with the Imperium being nothing more than the Empire of Man with a hefty serving of Herbert on the side. If you don't want people to "at you" in a thread while protesting the purpose of the thread, it might do you well to not post trollish responses in the future either.

Stripped down, feudalism v. fascism is a distinction without any real difference.

That is like saying communism and capitalism are the same thing. They are totaly different goverment systems. One is authoritarian and the other one is based on a personal bond with your lieg. One is geneticaly linked to religion, the other one is at best full separation of religion of church

 Excommunicatus wrote:


Don't @ me. This isn't what this thread is for.

Start a new thread, if you want to argue the point.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:


Don't @ me. This isn't what this thread is for.

Start a new thread, if you want to argue the point.

That is a strange way of making your argument irrefutable. Specialy when people pointed out that you don't know what a fasism or feudalim type of sociaty is.

I just don't want to derail this thread any more than my comments already have derailed it.

This won't be the hill I die on but if anyone else feels strongly enough about it to argue the point, I'm game.

So go ahead, if you care. I can sing The Internationale in seven languages and will use the phrase "Ideological State Apparatus" a lot, though, so... it'll be tedious.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Space Knights, LMAO. It's adorable how Space Marine players buy into their own agitprop.

This is a spaceknight.

Sheesh, guys, this was about space marines and daleks, not communism and capitalism!

I still maintain that daleks and space marines have some very similar themes, in various ways. Can someone post about that instead of feudalism and fascism?

They don't really. Daleks were never human and are physically pathetic squids. Marines are capable of most emotions they're just fighting all the times but Daleks are literally only capable of hate. Space Marines fight the enemy which is most xenos but they are 100% fine with things like cattle and normal wildlife whereas Daleks tried to exterminate all non Dalek life across all of existence. Power armour is just combat armour and Dalek casings are life support systems that they live in.

Not much similarity beyond the surface, cybermen are closer to marines. Modified humans in armour that have lore changes making fans salty.

GK get lobotomised before they join the brother ranks, they are unable to feel anything. At best they can mimic other emotions, if they are strong enough empaths. And not all psykers are good at that.

So go ahead, if you care. I can sing The Internationale in seven languages and will use the phrase "Ideological State Apparatus" a lot, though, so... it'll be tedious.

Well considering communists shot 3 people in my family, and my grandfather had his hand blow up by an NKWD when they were interogating his father on to where the priests are hidding, my views on being precise in description of a states regime are strong. The imperium is closest to an authoretarian religious countries with the clergy and administrative and military branchs figthing for power. Something like Iran has right now.

pm713 wrote:
They don't really. Daleks were never human and are physically pathetic squids. Marines are capable of most emotions they're just fighting all the times but Daleks are literally only capable of hate. Space Marines fight the enemy which is most xenos but they are 100% fine with things like cattle and normal wildlife whereas Daleks tried to exterminate all non Dalek life across all of existence. Power armour is just combat armour and Dalek casings are life support systems that they live in.

Not much similarity beyond the surface, cybermen are closer to marines. Modified humans in armour that have lore changes making fans salty.

Originally daleks were human stock, well, kaleds, but they were human for all practical purposes.

Also in some eps humans have been turned into daleks.

And again, the whole "exterminate all other life" is kinda thematic to both...

It's really not. You're so getting the wrong end of the stick with Marines it's not funny. SMs are humanity's last line of defence protecting the imperium from very real threats from within and without. With very few exceptions (ahem- Marines Malevolent) SMs don't wantonly exterminate all life just because. They have empathy (SWs and Armageddon) and are wards to systems of normal humans (SWs, Ultramar) who are glad they have the watchful eye of chapters on their doorstep.

Daleks simply want to exterminate all life because they are bred to do so. They are a plague on all of time and space. Daleks are more akin to Orks than SMs in the same sense that Orks simply want war just because. Both are simply honest creatures doing what they're bred to do.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

pm713 wrote:
They don't really. Daleks were never human and are physically pathetic squids. Marines are capable of most emotions they're just fighting all the times but Daleks are literally only capable of hate. Space Marines fight the enemy which is most xenos but they are 100% fine with things like cattle and normal wildlife whereas Daleks tried to exterminate all non Dalek life across all of existence. Power armour is just combat armour and Dalek casings are life support systems that they live in.

Not much similarity beyond the surface, cybermen are closer to marines. Modified humans in armour that have lore changes making fans salty.

Originally daleks were human stock, well, kaleds, but they were human for all practical purposes.

Also in some eps humans have been turned into daleks.

And again, the whole "exterminate all other life" is kinda thematic to both...

Kaleds aren't really human though. Hence the thing where they're from another planet.

I don't remember that ever being a thing.

It's not though. Space Marines won't kill dogs or cows or abhumans and a lot of things that aren't space marines. Daleks follow a very simple flow chart: Is it a Dalek?
If no and it's not Davros then kill it.

If yes don't kill it.

Daleks are Necron Destroyers.

Armoured flight capable chassis.
High powered energy weapon.
Extremely high technology galaxy spanning empire.
Experience no emotion other than Hatred.

Torquar wrote:
Daleks are Necron Destroyers.

Armoured flight capable chassis.
High powered energy weapon.
Extremely high technology galaxy spanning empire.
Experience no emotion other than Hatred.

Not a bad call...

Also, studs and 'bumps.'

Doesn't imperial space marine carry disintegration weapons?

Stairs can prevent them from assaulting upper ruins.