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 bullyboy wrote:
You still need to step back and reassess your army, then come back and say it's trash. Just because GW didn't drop points on what you wanted to take doesn't make it trash. GK are not the only marine army struggling with their core troops choices. Take a Scions battalion to get your CPs and objective secured (Inquisitorial troops?) and spend the rest of the points on elite GKs. Marine armies will still suck with their core troop choices, it's not a GK problem.

I just think it's way too early to say this is a BS fix without a proper introspective analysis of the changes. You may still be right, but you certainly haven't given it the opportunity to prove yourself wrong.

but they said it themself that a GK player, not a world class super tournament guru who sees through triple veils of soup books, are going to be happy about the changes. There seem to be a ton of people playing other factions that are happy about stuff, some are more happy, some are less happy, some are happy that their good stuff didn't get nerfed. If I am wrong, and there is a more then 50% possibility of that, then where are all the happy GK players. That are happy that now they are going to be playing with their paladins and purfires and other unused GK choices? And this is not a troll question. Have anyone seen those GK players that are happy about the CA?

Karol wrote:
"Grey Knights, too, have seen some sweeping points reductions to a bunch of core units, including Paladins and Purifiers, as well as the Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight. If you collect Grey Knights, you’ll have loads more flexibility when building your lists and may well find units you previously overlooked to be much more appealing."


I play with termintors and paladins, they make up most of my army, and they did not get better, not when plasma got cheaper.

I play Deathwing, so what's your point? Terminators didn't get fixed like you wanted them to, but I don't remember being told they would. So your army didn't improve, that's not GWs fault.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
Then we disagree what constitutes a core unit in an army is, can YOU tell me where GW says what a core unit is?

Core to me are not Elite choices, at the very least a core unit should be a unit that an army can be designed around to support. Which I do think GMDK can meet the criteria of.

So I ask what is your actual point bullyboy.

My point is that GW delivered what they said they did, and most GK players currently haven't properly reassessed their army to see if notable and instead have thrown their toys out of the pram prematurely. Bottom line.

If we're going there, bottom line is you're wrong. These changes did nothing in actually opening up actual options, which is what GW actually said they were going to do. Incinerators suck for the same reason other flamers on BS3 are bad which is you are paying points for D6 autohits, on top of that you're PAYING the privilege to lose your force weapon when you most likely want to charge whatever you are flaming. It's a solved codex, there is almost nothing you can throw out that isn't an idea someone thought of in that tactica thread.

If they actually wanted Incinerators to be viable? Should have made them free to swap in.

Do you have fun playing them, because I don't have fun playing GK. I spend all my confirmation money on it. My sister got a tablet, and at that time I though she made a stupid pick, because those break easy etc. She had 14 months of fun with her stuff. I had 0 months of fun with my stuff. I feel as if I had burned the money, and we have confirmation once per life, the next time I can expect such money is when I get to 21 in almost 8 years.

"So your army didn't improve, that's not GWs fault. "


if they didn't say they would fix it, I wouldn't be asking. I am sorry am not very good at subtel stuff. If someone tells me to wait till FAQ for a fix, then I do. I did so 4 times right now. Every FAQ or CA, when I don't see how the GK army is suppose to everyone tells me to wait, test, buy more of different armies and then am told to wait for next FAQ/CA, because that one will fix everything. I don't understand why GW said, maybe it is my english, that stuff will get better when it did not. Its like being hit at school 6 times instead of 4 times and expecting to feel good about it. I have enough problems with my mental health to worry, if GW really means the stuff it writes down, or if it is some lawyer talk where yes is no, no is maybe and no is never said, because no means people wouldn't buy stuff.

Yeah, GK were promised fixes and they got pity cost reductions, not the overhaul that GK as a faction needs.

If I were a GK player I'd be pretty angry right now.

 bullyboy wrote:

Karol wrote:
"Grey Knights, too, have seen some sweeping points reductions to a bunch of core units, including Paladins and Purifiers, as well as the Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight. If you collect Grey Knights, you’ll have loads more flexibility when building your lists and may well find units you previously overlooked to be much more appealing."


I play with termintors and paladins, they make up most of my army, and they did not get better, not when plasma got cheaper.

I play Deathwing, so what's your point? Terminators didn't get fixed like you wanted them to, but I don't remember being told they would. So your army didn't improve, that's not GWs fault.

you changed the text, but it is not just termintors I have that didn't get fixed. nothing GK was fixed. Draigo and NDKs stayed the same. Do you know we have a normal non GM NDK, do you know its cost was not changed and it was bad costed comparing to the GM even before the CA changes? The point drops we got are linked to point drops other marines got, and by virtue of being indetical in case of same units or proportional in case of GK specific units, this means nothing changes for us. If all GK had a real cost of 2200pts in a 2000pts games before CA, and drop 200pts, but everyone else drops even 100pts, then GK are still 100pts over priced comparing to other armies.

Please show me the actual quote from GW where they promised to fix it. Seriously.

I've watched a few of TT Lawrence games with Grey Knights, and he's done quite well with them. Granted, he is a good player and would do a lot better with a different army, but he made them work, at the old points cost.

I do feel bad that GK players have a low tier codex, but this general defeatist, almost bratty "I'm shelving my army" mentality is pretty lame. Find some new friends, play some narrative games, do something to enjoy the damn models, for God's sake. Throw in some Guard, Scions, whatever, but at least be an adult about things.

I feel for you Grey Knights players. It was an army I was considering a while back, but here we are.

Grey Knights and Custodes are armies that, if they are too powerful, they aren't fun to play against, but if they're too weak, they can't win at all. It's a crapshoot.

Obviously if GW doesn't understand the problem even at this point, I'd say there's no hope until a new edition or new Codex. Shelve/sell your Grey Knights and move on with your life if you can't have fun with them.

Or wait to see how the meta pans out after people actually play the new points/rules and see what happens. LVO is at the end of January and we'll get our first taste of what could be the next 6 months of 40k meta.

 bullyboy wrote:
Please show me the actual quote from GW where they promised to fix it. Seriously.

I've watched a few of TT Lawrence games with Grey Knights, and he's done quite well with them. Granted, he is a good player and would do a lot better with a different army, but he made them work, at the old points cost.

I do feel bad that GK players have a low tier codex, but this general defeatist, almost bratty "I'm shelving my army" mentality is pretty lame. Find some new friends, play some narrative games, do something to enjoy the damn models, for God's sake. Throw in some Guard, Scions, whatever, but at least be an adult about things.

No, you.

/s

In all seriousness, we've been adults about it for years. Times up. Also did you see Lawrence's CA video? They share the same sentiments.

Don't fething tell people to chin up; do this instead say "yo dude I get you, let me write GW to share your sentiments". Show some goddamn solidarity with a fellow player.

EDIT: Actually Lawrence SHELVED his GK army he was going to take to LVO because of how extensive the points drops were for all the other armies.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The constant nerfs to GK are a consequence of making an "army" out of the elite melee unit in someone else's Codex; we've got six "different units" that are fundamentally slight variations on the same "unit" to the point that one of them is usually just better than all the rest, they've all got the same incredibly restricted ranged arsenal that doesn't have the ability to credibly engage anything other than lightly-armoured single-wound infantry under the current rules, and the wildly inflexible list construction means we're incredibly sensitive to global rules changes that other armies would just laugh off.

Some of this is rose-coloured glasses; the Ordo Malleus book was far from perfect, and just going back and doing that again isn't necessarily going to go very far in this age of plasma-spam/battle cannons/Knights, but when the "Codex" is six slight variations on one melee infantry squad, four slight variations on one HQ model, the baby carrier, two of the playable bits of the Astartes motor pool, and Land Raiders, it's really quite hard to make anything out of it other than periodic ally fodder. Unless you want to make the one infantry squad all the squads are slight variations on powerful enough to bring us back to the days of the Purifier parking lot.

Part of the issue with the six same units is that each unit had a defined role in the Daemonhunters codex, and then with various powers they had defined roles in 6th/7th, even if the internal balance wasn't fantastic (especially when Purifiers lost their extra attack. Blech).
Now, with the limits of 1 cast for each power, you can't have all your Purgators cast Astral Aim. Strike Squads lost their zoning abilities when they lost Warp Quake and only one squad gets Hammerhand. It's ridiculous.

Isnt it a bit early to judge the whole book if everything you've seen so far are the point changes?

I've read somewhere that GKs Smite gets buffed. That'd be a pretty huge thing no?

Anyhow. GKs are still okay for casual pickup games. The Army as a whole has a problem that many other armies suffer from too: They're a one trick Pony.
If your opponent knows in advance you're going to field GK of course they'll load up on weapons that are good against them.
Your Opponent will know that you will not bring many tanks, no chaff infantry and that you will most likely try to deepstrike something. They'll know you wont have much anti-armor and overall only short-ranged firepower. It's pretty easy to field something that will counter all of that.

So, how DID you expect GW to fix the Grey Knights? You didnt expect them to bring out a new model range to go with CA18 did you? GKs are flawed in that they simply do not have the Tools to deal with certain things. They cannot be a complete army on their own since like 80% of their model range is footslogging elite guys which are kinda good at killing other footslogging elite guys and nothing else.

I feel sorry for you guys who are adamant about running solo GKs but I cannot see that army work properly without new models. Custodes for example only work because of their Jetbikes which are fast, tough and good at clearing hordes but can also take on vehicles.

 bullyboy wrote:
I play Deathwing, so what's your point? Terminators didn't get fixed like you wanted them to, but I don't remember being told they would. So your army didn't improve, that's not GWs fault.

I'm calling bull puckies on this.

If it's not GW's fault for not improving any 40K army whose responsibility is it? I mean GW writes the rules for the game which includes the rules and point costs for each model/unit in the game. If they're not responsible for improving the components of their own game then I have to question their ability to manage the game in any way.

Your statement leaves a lot to be desired in the logic department.

 Quickjager wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Please show me the actual quote from GW where they promised to fix it. Seriously.

I've watched a few of TT Lawrence games with Grey Knights, and he's done quite well with them. Granted, he is a good player and would do a lot better with a different army, but he made them work, at the old points cost.

I do feel bad that GK players have a low tier codex, but this general defeatist, almost bratty "I'm shelving my army" mentality is pretty lame. Find some new friends, play some narrative games, do something to enjoy the damn models, for God's sake. Throw in some Guard, Scions, whatever, but at least be an adult about things.

No, you.

/s

In all seriousness, we've been adults about it for years. Times up. Also did you see Lawrence's CA video? They share the same sentiments.

Don't fething tell people to chin up; do this instead say "yo dude I get you, let me write GW to share your sentiments". Show some goddamn solidarity with a fellow player.

EDIT: Actually Lawrence SHELVED his GK army he was going to take to LVO because of how extensive the points drops were for all the other armies.

he also said he was going to go back and have a hard look at what could be done with the changes. His initial thought was that it still didn't help. But at least he's willing to go take a hard look. I'm not hearing that from many people.

I already wrote to GW, I'd like to say, about GK. Well, actually about alot of things in CA, but them too. I don't play GK, so I didn't know exactly what changes need done, but I gave them my opinion on it.

Hopefully they listen, but I doubt they will.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I play Deathwing, so what's your point? Terminators didn't get fixed like you wanted them to, but I don't remember being told they would. So your army didn't improve, that's not GWs fault.

I'm calling bull puckies on this.

If it's not GW's fault for not improving any 40K army whose responsibility is it? I mean GW writes the rules for the game which includes the rules and point costs for each model/unit in the game. If they're not responsible for improving the components of their own game then I have to question their ability to manage the game in any way.

Your statement leaves a lot to be desired in the logic department.

Read more carefully. If I decide I want to run a pure army of deathwing terminators, no land raiders, no dreadnoughts, no stormravens, no knights, just terminators. Is it GW's fault that I would lose all the time? There is a difference between GW helping your specific army (which was shown) and GW helping a specific faction.

 Quickjager wrote:


Do you know what these reductions actually achieved? It means we have 132 extra points when we take our triple GMDK supreme cheese taco detachment.

I think this is the wrong way to look at the changes. Old lists required 3 GMDKs. New lists need to be written ground up.

 Jaxler wrote:
Grey knights have been nerfed by chapter approved. The buffs to things like plasma, making it even more accessible than ever has left grey knights in a very bad spot. It is also worth noting that almost all of the points drops for grey knights were too little and honestly did nothing generally. The army is essentially now guardsmen plus draigo and 2 3++ dreadknight grand masters. Everything else is horrible, and of you play a fluffy grey knights list, look forward to getting tabled turn one by tau or guard.

Grey knights winning at points drops was a good joke, warhammer community.

Grey knights have been consistantly nerfed by rules changes for 3 editions straight. I don't get why GW hates us so much. It feels like I should just give up on the army ever being in as playable a spot as my tau, where I dont look through my codex going "I guess only two things here arent unplayable"

P.S. Good to see the inquisition is still dead.

I've stopped playing them, I'll use a unit or two in my guard or sisters army but I'm done with them until GW sort them out. I won't buy new models.

 bullyboy wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I play Deathwing, so what's your point? Terminators didn't get fixed like you wanted them to, but I don't remember being told they would. So your army didn't improve, that's not GWs fault.

I'm calling bull puckies on this.

If it's not GW's fault for not improving any 40K army whose responsibility is it? I mean GW writes the rules for the game which includes the rules and point costs for each model/unit in the game. If they're not responsible for improving the components of their own game then I have to question their ability to manage the game in any way.

Your statement leaves a lot to be desired in the logic department.

Read more carefully. If I decide I want to run a pure army of deathwing terminators, no land raiders, no dreadnoughts, no stormravens, no knights, just terminators. Is it GW's fault that I would lose all the time? There is a difference between GW helping your specific army (which was shown) and GW helping a specific faction.

yes because thats exactly what deathwing was created for, to run an army of terminators, just like ravenwing and white scars was to run an army of bikes, if they fundamentally don't work then there is a problem.

 Jaxler wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
To declare that GK ware the big winners of CA18 is either one of the most brazen lies ever or a demonstration how a demonstration of how much they dont understand their own game.

New codex in Q19 is the only possible glimmer of hope, or proper shitstorm so GK get something in the FAQ for CA18

The problem is I dont think there are enough grey knight players left to complain. Every person who picks up grey knights just abandons them quickly. All the new players who ever choose grey knights quit. Nobody is left to make a fuss.

Probably because they end up playing them and are fed up auto-losing if you don't make a spamming cheddar list.

 warmaster21 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I play Deathwing, so what's your point? Terminators didn't get fixed like you wanted them to, but I don't remember being told they would. So your army didn't improve, that's not GWs fault.

I'm calling bull puckies on this.

If it's not GW's fault for not improving any 40K army whose responsibility is it? I mean GW writes the rules for the game which includes the rules and point costs for each model/unit in the game. If they're not responsible for improving the components of their own game then I have to question their ability to manage the game in any way.

Your statement leaves a lot to be desired in the logic department.

Read more carefully. If I decide I want to run a pure army of deathwing terminators, no land raiders, no dreadnoughts, no stormravens, no knights, just terminators. Is it GW's fault that I would lose all the time? There is a difference between GW helping your specific army (which was shown) and GW helping a specific faction.

yes because thats exactly what deathwing was created for, to run an army of terminators, just like ravenwing and white scars was to run an army of bikes, if they fundamentally don't work then there is a problem.

Not really, terminators are a part, but the army will need Dreads for AT, transport for those not in teleport, other support elements (in regards to characters). Same with ravenwing (which I also play), it only works if all the units support each other correctly.

Yeah Dark Angels don't just deploy terminators unless other allies support them. They will have dreads, vehicles, tanks, fliers and the like, just like any other 1st company. The only thing GW needs to do is allow fast attack or elites to count as troops if you are making a Ravenwing, White Scars, Evil Sunz, Aspect warriors etc. Armies.

ah I see we went from the wait for the next "insert CA/FAQ whatever here" to the good old "youre just not playing your army correctly" again

Can we all please stop with this "Plasma was made chaper so GK are more screwed?". It's complete BS.

For the last time. PLASMA.DID.NOT.GET.CHEAPER.

Only those forms of plasma that no one saw around were made cheaper! Marine's plasma guns, IG Veteran's plasma guns, even scion plasma gun... please tell me in the last year when was the last time you saw one of these in a competitive list! The only plasma gun you see around nowadays is the plasma gun in the hands of the IG infantry squad, which has still the same exact cost as before!

Also "Many of our buffs are the same as what marines got so it doesn't count"... are you serious? So if marines (another weak faction) got a buff together with you, you complain? You wanted this CA to be "All faction's point +20%, all GK points -80%"? Sorry to disappoint you, GKs are not the only faction who needed help, there were a lot things did CA needed to do, and buffing some marine stuff that was never saw on the table, was one of these. Note though that marines didn't receive a single true buff, because Gman is still at it's cost, same for smashcaptain and scouts and all that stuff that was part of the typical marine competitive detachment. Not even hellblasters and aggressors got a buff, because they were barely ok. Being one of the focal points of GW marketing plot didn't help them, because the aim of this CA was obvious (and well executed). Don't touch anything that right now is being played and buff everything else, with the exception of GK Necrons and Admech which should receive true buffs, because they are the ones needing the biggest help.

So you are no more competitive because some of those buffs are also in the hands of marines? Well let me tell you that it wasn't marines that gave you problems, it was Imperial soup, which despite some dubious claims thrown around in this thread, didn't receive a single buff, but on the contrary received huge nerfs, like the big price hike on the Artemia hellhounds. Or it was aeldari soups, which again have seen only nerfs. I'm sure that you weren't being punched around by mono wraith armies, correct?

I didn't see Magnus or Mortarion going down. PBC neither. Actually chaos got a huge nerf due to the cultist hike. Was it demon engines lists which were giving you troubles? No, they weren't.

All top lists didn't see a single point drop. You did, so that alone makes things better for GK.
No, this is not enough, that's sure. GKs will not be winning tournaments left and right after CA2018, we can all agree with this. But they surely got better, and at least now you can bring them to the typical local store game without attracting sympathetic looks from your opponent. They are still not top level tournament material, that is true, GKs after CA2018 are a mid-low tier army, which is already much better than being the faction which everyone agrees being the absolute worst one.
It's an improvement, maybe not as big as we all wanted, but is still a big improvement.

I don't need plasma to run GK off the table. 21 ppm T4 3+ base models are incredibly fragile.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Please show me the actual quote from GW where they promised to fix it. Seriously.

I've watched a few of TT Lawrence games with Grey Knights, and he's done quite well with them. Granted, he is a good player and would do a lot better with a different army, but he made them work, at the old points cost.

I do feel bad that GK players have a low tier codex, but this general defeatist, almost bratty "I'm shelving my army" mentality is pretty lame. Find some new friends, play some narrative games, do something to enjoy the damn models, for God's sake. Throw in some Guard, Scions, whatever, but at least be an adult about things.

No, you.

/s

In all seriousness, we've been adults about it for years. Times up. Also did you see Lawrence's CA video? They share the same sentiments.

Don't fething tell people to chin up; do this instead say "yo dude I get you, let me write GW to share your sentiments". Show some goddamn solidarity with a fellow player.

EDIT: Actually Lawrence SHELVED his GK army he was going to take to LVO because of how extensive the points drops were for all the other armies.

he also said he was going to go back and have a hard look at what could be done with the changes. His initial thought was that it still didn't help. But at least he's willing to go take a hard look. I'm not hearing that from many people.

EDIT: I give up, bullyboy here knows my army better than me and all the other dedicated players in the game. Obviously I'm just whining to whine. It isn't like we got someone named bullyboy calling all Grey Knight players whiners.

GK are awesome. Pure awesomeness. Until the opponent gets a turn. Then they get a lot less awesome.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:


Do you know what these reductions actually achieved? It means we have 132 extra points when we take our triple GMDK supreme cheese taco detachment.

I think this is the wrong way to look at the changes. Old lists required 3 GMDKs. New lists need to be written ground up.

All GK lists will have 3 GMDK because they were some of the toughest units in the codex. All that happened was they got cheaper, warping the codex around them to an even more absurd extent.

Like let me explain why every list that wants to win as a GK list has three of them.

Imagine your best ranged unit is also the fastest melee platform, it has WS and BS 2+ w/ rerolls of 1s, has a 50% chance of saving any wound in the worst case scenario along with being T6. The only place it loses in compared to any other unit in the codex? Number of attacks, and if you ever get bogged down in a horde that is on you as a player for not actually using the stormbolters on the rest of your army..

I do kind of feel like we need to at least see how the meta pans out for a week or so before we make definitive claims. Almost every codex received major shakeups and on top of that the vigilus formations are coming as well. I doubt Grey Knights are going to be top tier because the very premise of their army is flawed and never should have been standalone anyways (they desperately needed to be in an inquisition codex alongside Stormtroopers and other things) but they could still see some sort of niche that may just require a different approach.

One thing I will say is that one of the reasons the admech/grey knight response is so different is that we have formations coming. If we didn't have those our excitement would be a lot more subdued because pts changes alone weren't going to fix some of our units. It took specific formations to give some of our units a reason to exist at all combined with pts drops that gave us something to be excited about.

If grey knights could get some formations they would be getting core tweaks as well, because apparently thats the only way we're getting real datasheet, relic, and warlord trait updates now. Kataphrons were very terrible until we saw the leaks and saw how the new abilities let them do what they should have done to begin with. Our kastelan robots used to be locked to one very niche build but with the new formation abilities you can go to the admech thread and see tons of excited discussion where each FW's abilities suddenly matter now and radically change how the unit plays. That's what GK needs. They're an army of special snowflake marines who honestly struggle to stand out even against regular space marines or guard. And then to add insult to injury Custodes exist who are basically just "marines but EVEN MORE AWSUM THAN GREY KNIGHTS TOO" and you really have to question why GK even exist at all.

Tl;DR I feel for GK. I still think they need to give the meta a chance for a couple of weeks after we see how things have changed since there were so many shakeups. That said no amounts of points changes can change crappy datasheet, WLT, relics, and abilities and if anyone has sympathy for you there it's admech players.

 bullyboy wrote:
I do feel bad that GK players have a low tier codex, but this general defeatist, almost bratty "I'm shelving my army" mentality is pretty lame. Find some new friends, play some narrative games, do something to enjoy the damn models, for God's sake. Throw in some Guard, Scions, whatever, but at least be an adult about things.

You're telling Karol - who, from one of his earlier posts in this thread is either 13 or 14 - to be an adult about this?

 Sir Heckington wrote:
I already wrote to GW, I'd like to say, about GK. Well, actually about alot of things in CA, but them too. I don't play GK, so I didn't know exactly what changes need done, but I gave them my opinion on it.

Hopefully they listen, but I doubt they will.

Given the book isn't out yet, I doubt if feedback emails will be being listened to yet. Might be worth resending when CA18 is actually released

I would certainly consider taking them to task over the spin in that WHC post - while sort of factually accurate, it was definitely a bit misleading (based on what we know at this point).

Spoletta wrote:
Can we all please stop with this "Plasma was made chaper so GK are more screwed?". It's complete BS.

For the last time. PLASMA.DID.NOT.GET.CHEAPER.

Only those forms of plasma that no one saw around were made cheaper! Marine's plasma guns, IG Veteran's plasma guns, even scion plasma gun... please tell me in the last year when was the last time you saw one of these in a competitive list! The only plasma gun you see around nowadays is the plasma gun in the hands of the IG infantry squad, which has still the same exact cost as before!

Also "Many of our buffs are the same as what marines got so it doesn't count"... are you serious? So if marines (another weak faction) got a buff together with you, you complain? You wanted this CA to be "All faction's point +20%, all GK points -80%"? Sorry to disappoint you, GKs are not the only faction who needed help, there were a lot things did CA needed to do, and buffing some marine stuff that was never saw on the table, was one of these. Note though that marines didn't receive a single true buff, because Gman is still at it's cost, same for smashcaptain and scouts and all that stuff that was part of the typical marine competitive detachment. Not even hellblasters and aggressors got a buff, because they were barely ok. Being one of the focal points of GW marketing plot didn't help them, because the aim of this CA was obvious (and well executed). Don't touch anything that right now is being played and buff everything else, with the exception of GK Necrons and Admech which should receive true buffs, because they are the ones needing the biggest help.

So you are no more competitive because some of those buffs are also in the hands of marines? Well let me tell you that it wasn't marines that gave you problems, it was Imperial soup, which despite some dubious claims thrown around in this thread, didn't receive a single buff, but on the contrary received huge nerfs, like the big price hike on the Artemia hellhounds. Or it was aeldari soups, which again have seen only nerfs. I'm sure that you weren't being punched around by mono wraith armies, correct?

I didn't see Magnus or Mortarion going down. PBC neither. Actually chaos got a huge nerf due to the cultist hike. Was it demon engines lists which were giving you troubles? No, they weren't.

All top lists didn't see a single point drop. You did, so that alone makes things better for GK.
No, this is not enough, that's sure. GKs will not be winning tournaments left and right after CA2018, we can all agree with this. But they surely got better, and at least now you can bring them to the typical local store game without attracting sympathetic looks from your opponent. They are still not top level tournament material, that is true, GKs after CA2018 are a mid-low tier army, which is already much better than being the faction which everyone agrees being the absolute worst one.
It's an improvement, maybe not as big as we all wanted, but is still a big improvement.

Actually marines were just made more expensive, we didn't get any buffs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I do feel bad that GK players have a low tier codex, but this general defeatist, almost bratty "I'm shelving my army" mentality is pretty lame. Find some new friends, play some narrative games, do something to enjoy the damn models, for God's sake. Throw in some Guard, Scions, whatever, but at least be an adult about things.

You're telling Karol - who, from one of his earlier posts in this thread is either 13 or 14 - to be an adult about this?

 Sir Heckington wrote:
I already wrote to GW, I'd like to say, about GK. Well, actually about alot of things in CA, but them too. I don't play GK, so I didn't know exactly what changes need done, but I gave them my opinion on it.

Hopefully they listen, but I doubt they will.

Given the book isn't out yet, I doubt if feedback emails will be being listened to yet. Might be worth resending when CA18 is actually released

I would certainly consider taking them to task over the spin in that WHC post - while sort of factually accurate, it was definitely a bit misleading (based on what we know at this point).

Nah, I collect all faction accept tau, never sold an army or gave up on one. GK are just not fun to play anymore, it isn't a stubborn stand I just never feel like playing them, I'll play all my other armies until they are fixed. I mean our units get so badly shot up that you are left fighting with an army where most of your units consist or 2 or 3 units and there is nothing you can do with them. 40k is a game for the purposes of fun and GK's are no longer fun. Simple as that. Its not like orks where, they were low tier, but you could still have fun and fight to the end of the game etc. I loved playing orks pre-8th. I mean you just end up scooting your dreadknights about the table lol and I'm not a competitive player in the slightest, I'm not that bothered if I win, I'll take a defeat gladly if I can kill someones warlord in CC with Kharn etc. And I'm honestly not being biased GK's aren't even in my top 5 favourite armies, so I'm not as bothered as everyone else, but I agree with all the GK's players about how bad they are.