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 dracpanzer wrote:

 Frowbakk wrote:
Apparently I'm not up on my terminology...

What does TPT mean?

A misogynistic slur on Horde Foot Sisters.

It's kinda gross.

Have to say i'm surprised the horde went 5-1. Didn't anyone think to just oathbreaker the canonesses turn 1, or did the celestians see some use?

PuppetSoul wrote:
Passion without building to exploit the Index Imagifier (who can make it consistent).

Last time I posted regularly on Dakka (a year-ish ago) I tried to tell people the Index Imagifers in a foot horde were cool, and was told by "competetive" Sisters players that they were "useless garbage" and needed to be retooled to work alongside vehicle spam.

It's a year late and the Index is no longer current, but it's nice to be vindicated at last

 Frowbakk wrote:
Apparently I'm not up on my terminology...

What does TPT mean?

TPT is The Pink Tide: in that the new horde Sisters playstyle encourages swarming basic troops around Warbossestine and the KFF Canoness and playing them exactly like you would play Orks if the only models they had access to were Stormboyz and Boyz, and they lacked Da Jump. Because that's basically what you're dealing with in the beta dex.

 dracpanzer wrote:

A misogy

It's a pun.

A.T. wrote:
Have to say i'm surprised the horde went 5-1. Didn't anyone think to just oathbreaker the canonesses turn 1, or did the celestians see some use?

With the way I deployed TPT, the Celestians were never in LOS to get cleared, so shooting at the KFF Canoness meant they'd have to dig through 10 wounds, and because SoB can heal between volleys, two shieldbreaker missiles isn't enough to kill her off unless they're both 5+ on damage. At that point though, they have chewn through 6 CP, two missiles, and two turns of Castellan shooting, so she has served her purpose to Da Bossiest.

And I don't see why it's surprising. I didn't bring them to LVO because they're fun to play, metabusting, or some secret tech that would sideline people by having never played against them before: they're just a generic blob with a disproportionately high effective wound per point and attacks per point, with great psychic defense and that is essentially fearless.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Frowbakk wrote:
Apparently I'm not up on my terminology...

What does TPT mean?

A misogynistic slur on Horde Foot Sisters.

Nonsense. It clearly stands for 'Terribly Poor Tactics' an apt description of it's battlefield role.

Oh yeah, that horde army approach which I tried & abandoned for the 4++ bubble on NOT T3 models.

PuppetSoul wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

A misogy

It's a pun.

I see no contradiction.

It's basically the equivalent of calling a squad of marines "the penis patrol", with undertones of "don't respect women enough to say they're anything but vaginas".

But we're getting off topic here. How about we just call it footsloggers instead like we always did before, and move on.

The problem with the foot horde is that catachan do it better. Sisters are pretty good at psychic defense and that’s about it. Everything else can be done better with the typical guard castallen list.

PuppetSoul wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

A misogy

It's a pun.

A misogynistic pun.

Orks refer to humans as Pinkies, sometimes. The Pink Tide is by no means misogynistic, unless The Green Tide is racist.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Orks refer to humans as Pinkies, sometimes.

How does that have anything to do with what people in the real world say?

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Orks refer to humans as Pinkies, sometimes. The Pink Tide is by no means misogynistic, unless The Green Tide is racist.

SJ

It is in regards to a specific type of xeno that is defined primarily by their skin color.

It IS racist.

Technically it's xenoist.

So did either of these tournament-ready lists use Dominions or Exorcists? It looks like one was Repentia-heavy and the other was wall o' bolter infantry. I'm wondering where the anti-tank came from.

 MacPhail wrote:
So did either of these tournament-ready lists use Dominions or Exorcists? It looks like one was Repentia-heavy and the other was wall o' bolter infantry. I'm wondering where the anti-tank came from.

From what i've been able to gather the top four lists were -
1) Joint 45th (Goldphish, dakka) - Mechanised, six squads of battle sisters double packed into repressors, arcos, repentia, souped with smash captains and sniper scouts. From what I understand didn't run into any tau or knight lists.
2) 62nd (Puppetsoul, dakka)- Lots of infantry and deepstriking seraphim infront of exorcists and a crusader knight.
3) 167th (Kolby Hopkins) - Double battalion with stormbolter doms, 3 exos, and a castellan
4) 451st (bdke, BnC)- meltadoms in repressors, 2 exorcists, a few seraphim and an avenger/fist knight

A.T. wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
So did either of these tournament-ready lists use Dominions or Exorcists? It looks like one was Repentia-heavy and the other was wall o' bolter infantry. I'm wondering where the anti-tank came from.

From what i've been able to gather the top four lists were -
1) Joint 45th (Goldphish, dakka) - Mechanised, six squads of battle sisters double packed into repressors, arcos, repentia, souped with smash captains and sniper scouts. From what I understand didn't run into any tau or knight lists.
2) 62nd (Puppetsoul, dakka)- Lots of infantry and deepstriking seraphim infront of exorcists and a crusader knight.
3) 167th (Kolby Hopkins) - Double battalion with stormbolter doms, 3 exos, and a castellan
4) 451st (bdke, BnC)- meltadoms in repressors, 2 exorcists, a few seraphim and an avenger/fist knight

It says a lot about Knights being overused that most of these have one in their list. I hope GW listens to crap like this and makes adjustments.

I actually like allies, it's fun and opens up avenues for various theme decks that wouldn't be had otherwise. But GW really has no idea how to balance allied forces at all... I mean I don't think GW has really even attempted to balance allies this edition.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Pink Tide is by no means misogynistic

I'm sure that you also believe "the yellow horde" wasn't racist against Asians, either, but that doesn't make you right. Opinions can be wrong, and yours is. Regardless, actually, yes, "greenskin" IS used as a slur (xenoist, not racist) against Orks in-universe. We just don't care as much here in the real world because they're a fictional non-human species, and "green" isn't typically used as an insult towards any particular real-life "race".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A bit more on topic, anyone bothered to use a Mantle of Ophelia this edition? Not sure it's really worth the cost... I mean Eternal Warrior is great, but a canoness doesn't really have enough damage output OR tankiness to make it work IMO.

Removed - BrookM

MacPhail wrote:So did either of these tournament-ready lists use Dominions or Exorcists? It looks like one was Repentia-heavy and the other was wall o' bolter infantry. I'm wondering where the anti-tank came from.

I ran 3 Exos and a Krastsader behind the wall of meat. It was more than enough anti-tank for most lists, and those where it would have been questionable (such as an RTT game I played vs 3 butcher Levis and 3 plagueburst crawlers), the babyslap-brigade has enough legitimate weapons mixed into it to threaten the things they catch.

Now, if those things explode for 6 damage, you're pretty chuffed, but that's a problem no matter which build you go with.

Melissia wrote:
It says a lot about Knights being overused that most of these have one in their list.

It says a lot more about Sisters lacking something which is both as cost-efficient and TIME-efficient as a Knight.
I put the Krastsader into my list specifically so that I could shave 45 girls and power axes, and reduce my clock footprint.

Melissia wrote:
A bit more on topic, anyone bothered to use a Mantle of Ophelia this edition? Not sure it's really worth the cost... I mean Eternal Warrior is great, but a canoness doesn't really have enough damage output OR tankiness to make it work IMO.

It's bad on every level, and is symbolic of the beta codex not getting a second pass to fix bad designs.

So let's say 1 CP is worth around 100 points to every faction.
Mantle of Ophelia is a stormshield that doesn't take up a slot.
So since stormshields were reduced to 5pts... that means you are trading 1 CP for 5 points.


If you look at Santic Halo for Space Marines, it also gives a full deny. While that ability would conflict with the Brazzer, the Mantle could take on one of the you-will-never-take-this warlord traits in addition to the free 5 points, such as Righteous Rage (assuming it doesn't get changed into an aura), and then it'd be a relic I'd actually take.

Goldphish wrote:The problem with the foot horde is that catachan do it better. Sisters are pretty good at psychic defense and that’s about it. Everything else can be done better with the typical guard castallen list.

The problem with that thinking is that you're assuming people are running Sisters because they're good, and not that they're running Sisters because they're Sisters.

I'm well aware that they're subpar, and I do not think TPT is some miracle-cure that overcomes that. The Beta Codex destroyed them and reduced their viability to being a psyker-proof screen for other, better, factions.

The list I brought to LVO can absolutely be compared to an IG+Castellan list: Krastsader and Exorcists fill the role of the Castellan, and Sisters fill the role of IG, but with quality saves rather than number of bodies. IG is obviously better against everything but psyker spam, because Move Move Move gives significantly better objective control, and Fix Bayonettes is The Passion without requiring an expendable resource or a bs roll, but they operate very similarly.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of with it. Like trying to find ways to use each of the relics but only a couple of them seem even worth it.

I havent tried melee pinktide yet, but i do play a pinktide, tho its shooting.

Before the beta, it worked really well, last year i tested (for adepticon) against 2 of the top 4-5 lists and i was able to win vs them. It was doable, now its not, not at all (I play with a knight, Captains, and horde sisters, its 1200pts of dominions/bbs, rets and a seraphim squad). I use Celestine, but... im considering never taking her again.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I havent tried melee pinktide yet, but i do play a pinktide, tho its shooting.

Before the beta, it worked really well, last year i tested (for adepticon) against 2 of the top 4-5 lists and i was able to win vs them. It was doable, now its not, not at all (I play with a knight, Captains, and horde sisters, its 1200pts of dominions/bbs, rets and a seraphim squad). I use Celestine, but... im considering never taking her again.

Bloody Rose is the nuts because it gives your blob the ability to push forward onto objectives and challenge the things that are already holding them in melee. Without it, infantry with respectable melee hiding inside magic boxes present an insurmountable problem to TPT, which becomes a huge issue when you consider most ITC objective locations and that recommended terrain placement includes a building in the center.

EDIT: but yes, Celestine desperately needs to gain access to Bloody Rose, and her sword needs to do flat 3.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I havent tried melee pinktide yet, but i do play a pinktide, tho its shooting.

Before the beta, it worked really well, last year i tested (for adepticon) against 2 of the top 4-5 lists and i was able to win vs them. It was doable, now its not, not at all (I play with a knight, Captains, and horde sisters, its 1200pts of dominions/bbs, rets and a seraphim squad). I use Celestine, but... im considering never taking her again.

I dont think its really a "melee" TPT, you don't want to be in combat with anything nasty, but if you have an opportunity to rapid fire then charge, its almost as good as getting twice as many shots so sure why not.
after the first round though, you probably need a character or ally to bail you out

PuppetSoul wrote:
Bloody Rose is the nuts because it gives your blob the ability to push forward onto objectives and challenge the things that are already holding them in melee.

Yeah. Rapid fire then charge-- it's a LOT of damage potential in one turn for the footslogging horde. Or non-horde, for that matter.

 Grundz wrote:

I dont think its really a "melee" TPT, you don't want to be in combat with anything nasty, but if you have an opportunity to rapid fire then charge, its almost as good as getting twice as many shots so sure why not.
after the first round though, you probably need a character or ally to bail you out

Since the girls have bolt pistols, if they're within range of the Priest, they still have slightly better damage output on turn 2 of a fight than they would shooting without having charged, and therefore obviously better damage output than falling back.

The only reason I think I'd ever fall back out of combat would be to light whatever it is up with Exorcists and/or the Knight.

PuppetSoul wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

I dont think its really a "melee" TPT, you don't want to be in combat with anything nasty, but if you have an opportunity to rapid fire then charge, its almost as good as getting twice as many shots so sure why not.
after the first round though, you probably need a character or ally to bail you out

Since the girls have bolt pistols, if they're within range of the Priest, they still have slightly better damage output on turn 2 of a fight than they would shooting without having charged

only if I remember to shoot them!

 Grundz wrote:

PuppetSoul wrote:

Since the girls have bolt pistols, if they're within range of the Priest, they still have slightly better damage output on turn 2 of a fight than they would shooting without having charged

only if I remember to shoot them!

Either you're shooting the bolt pistols or you're shooting yourself in the foot, either way, you're still shooting.

How about we call it: Horde Sisters (Horde short) or Foot Sisters and Brazier and avoid the whole mildly misogynistic naming system thing?
Then we could differentiate it from Mech or MixedMech pretty easily.

Yes. Please.
There's no reason for it to be 'Pink', none of the cannon sisters have a particularly pink paint scheme. It's a really really silly name, and I shall continue to mentally re-edit it to 'Terribly Poor Tactics' whenever I see it.

Footslogging sisters is also the older term for foot-based Sisters anyway-- well over two decades of use at this point. The tactic isn't new, and the name need not be either.