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I'm looking into getting back into KoW and am trying to settle on an army, but I haven't played much (and it was during first edition, mostly proxied but I have a bunch of unfinished stuff from the kickstarter). I've caught up a bit more with the current rules but I am still not sure what works better on the table. Of the three armies I am considering; Dwarves, Abyssal Dwarves , and the basic undead, are there any units that should be avoided or more favored in these armies? For both dwarves I was thinking of going more warmachine/artillery focused backed with golems or well armored troops, or going with hordes backed with healing heroes and werewolves for the undead. I was thinking about painting up a unit or two of each and seeing if one of the armies styles really struck me but I don't want to get too focused on something that is better on paper than on the table top.

Kings of War is quite well balanced, so go with what seems cool.
If you have an army with some kind of vision for how it's supposed to work on the tabletop and isn't skewed (usually by spamming something) you're most likely fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When it comes to army selection, there is an old saying that goes around in historical.

Play an army that you love even when it loses.

How does this look like for a beginning AD list? Might switch out a WM and the Immortal Guard Troop for some cav.


++ [Main Force] - Max 3 dupe H/M/WE (Abyssal Dwarfs) [1000pts] ++

+ Infantry +

Blacksouls - Horde [190pts]

Immortal Guard - Regiment [145pts]

Immortal Guard - Troop [100pts]

+ Large Infantry +

Lesser Obsidian Golems - Horde [210pts]

+ Heroes +

Slave Driver [50pts]

+ War Engines +

Angkor Heavy Mortar [120pts]

G'rog Mortar [100pts]

Katsuchan Rocket Launcher [85pts]

++ Total: [1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I always recommend that people choose the army that is the most fun for them to model and paint. Vanguard is An entryway game for KoW. Although it doesn't have rank n file battle you can get a feel for the units and don't have to invest very much painting time in getting a Warband on the table.

It's not a bad list, but personally I dislike the unreliability of the big warmachines. I reworked your list to something I'd run (I play AD and regular Dwarfs).

1000pts

Blacksouls - Horde [190pts]

Immortal Guard - Regiment [145pts]

Lesser Obsidian Golems - Horde [210pts]

Katsuchan Rocket Launcher [85pts]
Katsuchan Rocket Launcher [85pts]
Katsuchan Rocket Launcher [85pts]

Slave Driver with Scrying Gem of Zellak [80pts]

Ironcaster with Surge (8) [120pts]

The Ironcaster is to Surge the golems into the enemy, ideally in flank or rear while the Blacksouls act as the anvil to hold the golems' target in place. The Immortals regiment protects the Golems' flank. The Ironcaster can also heal the golems and Immortals, and Inspire the Warmachines (although to Surge the golems he'll need to stay within 12" of them, so he usually won't be near the Rockets). I use 3 rockets for consistency. With 9 rolls at 5+, one usually gets 3 hits. Not much nor hard hitting, but I prefer constant damage to the gamble of the big guns. (They have not worked for me). As for the Slave Driver with Scrying Gem ... Dwarfs of all flavors are slow: forcing the enemy to deploy more units allows you to adjust accordingly, concentrating where you want.

Gargolyes are good, but chancy with their low Nerve. Still at the cost of 1 rocket launcher you could have a Flying unit to threaten flanks and rear. Hiding them behind the Blacksouls protects them from ranged attacks, and once the Blacksouls are engaged, they can fly over double speed and get 1 turn, which should set them up for a charge on your next turn. They may die before they can charge, but your opponent will have to deal with the threat.

As for your chosen army ... Make sure you are willing to assemble and paint X number of figures. No point in buying the tournament leading armies if you hate their looks because you'll never finish.

Iron_Knight wrote:
How does this look like for a beginning AD list? Might switch out a WM and the Immortal Guard Troop for some cav.


++ [Main Force] - Max 3 dupe H/M/WE (Abyssal Dwarfs) [1000pts] ++

+ Infantry +

Blacksouls - Horde [190pts]

Immortal Guard - Regiment [145pts]

Immortal Guard - Troop [100pts]

+ Large Infantry +

Lesser Obsidian Golems - Horde [210pts]

+ Heroes +

Slave Driver [50pts]

+ War Engines +

Angkor Heavy Mortar [120pts]

G'rog Mortar [100pts]

Katsuchan Rocket Launcher [85pts]

++ Total: [1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Iron_Knight wrote:
I'm looking into getting back into KoW and am trying to settle on an army, (.....). Of the three armies I am considering; Dwarves, Abyssal Dwarves , and the basic undead, (....).

As people above have posted: First and foremost pick an army you want to model and paint. You'll have to paint at least 50 models for a 1,000 point starter army, so best pick one that you like.

I do have an undead army and I love painting it. Undead have the widest selection of troops (maybe second to goblins) and corner all aspects of the game, be it light cavalry, heavy cavalry, monster-riding heroes, war machines, and all kinds of infantry. Their weakness is that they don't have cheap characters and are very dependant un surge. Their shooting is limited to skellie archers and their war machine plainly sucks. On the offsite, their individuals are so powerful that they had to be nerfed (both pharaoh and vampire lord are nerfed to def 5+), they have great and powerful large infantry (wights, zombie trolls, werewolves, barrow wights) and ideal chap anvil troops.

And what's not to love about a zombie horde? Or a zombie legion? Or multiple zombie legions?

That said, I face regular dwarves a lot and they are a great army too. I wouldn't want to paint 100 beards, but if you're into facial hair, why not? Dwarven organ guns and flame guns are great, bullwarkers make for good anvils and their cavalry is a little too good.

Abyssal dwarves I don't face too often. When I see them, there's a lot of golems and slave orcs, but very few actual dwarves, but that's maybe the charm of the army? And the heavy mortars.... brr....
Good thing to know: Abyssal dwarves and undead can ally with each other. A 1,200 point undead army and 300 points of abyssal dwarven allies also make for a 1,500 point army. And these really do match well.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
It's not a bad list, but personally I dislike the unreliability of the big warmachines. I reworked your list to something I'd run (I play AD and regular Dwarfs).

1000pts

Blacksouls - Horde [190pts]

Immortal Guard - Regiment [145pts]

Lesser Obsidian Golems - Horde [210pts]

Katsuchan Rocket Launcher [85pts]
Katsuchan Rocket Launcher [85pts]
Katsuchan Rocket Launcher [85pts]

Slave Driver with Scrying Gem of Zellak [80pts]

Ironcaster with Surge (8) [120pts]

You can't take triple rockets at 1000 points, and in fact you can't even take double rockets. Here's a redux from me that brings back some variety and gives a good selection of unit types:

Blacksouls Horde
Immortal Guard Regiment
Gargoyles Troop
Lesser Obsidian Golems Horde
Katsuchan Rocket Launcher
Angkor Heavy Mortar
Slave Driver
Ironcaster - Surge (8), Fireball (6)
1000

All of these units you'll use later on - I actually know of far more triple Angkor lists than I do Katsuchan, despite what the math says on each people seem drawn to the big badda boom

 Boss Salvage wrote:
You can't take triple rockets at 1000 points, and in fact you can't even take double rockets. <Snip>

All of these units you'll use later on - I actually know of far more triple Angkor lists than I do Katsuchan, despite what the math says on each people seem drawn to the big badda boom

Okay, my list was based on core book rules. If using CoK18 or CoK19, one is limited as you say (and yes, I'll have to use other guns instead of my preferred rocket battery). However, what is Iron Knight using in his local meta?

@vince1248: As fairly recent AD player, I can vouch for this. One starts with Blacksouls and Immortals with just a taste of other units. The dwarf part of the army proves over several games to be the weak part (mainly the 4" move)*, so one ends up using the Golems and Slave Orcs. As I also have Undead, I've found that I play better when I can use Surge tricks, so triple Lesser Obsidian Golem Horde Surge. (Once the rest of the group has CoK 18 or 19, we will play by those, so 2 LOG Hordes in our 1500pt games). However, I still take a Immortals regt. or two as flank guards since I've running at least 2 Ironcasters they can use their limited Heal spell the Immortals and Golems.

*My opponents have gotten good at denying me late game charges. Either just advance out of arc or back up and the 8" Charge just doesn't cut it. The Blacksoul horde is a good anvil and still shows up now and then (often with Nerve booster).

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Okay, my list was based on core book rules. If using CoK18 or CoK19, one is limited as you say (and yes, I'll have to use other guns instead of my preferred rocket battery). However, what is Iron Knight using in his local meta?

It is an extremely good bet that IK's meta will be using COK19, as will any organized event they plan on going to in the next year. I figure they might as well plan towards that rather than the less likely generic build guidelines.

But sure, point taken.

It's a shame that you took none of the faster options in your abyssal dwarves list, one of their strong point compared to their vanilla cousin is that they have very good options of all kind when you need mobility :

- gargoyles as cheap chaff light cav equivalent
(to use as chaff or to hunt fragile things like war engines and lone heroes)

- Halfbreed as medium/heavy cav, less defense than knights, but they regenerate and have CS so they have a better staying power

- Grotesques as ultra heavy cav, they both have regeneration and high defense, but are slithgly slower

- the halfbreed champion is one of the best melee individual in the game, he is one of the very few able to fight a vampire lord with a good chance of winning without support, and with regeneration and individual he is a pain to kill without investing a lots of ressources.

Less useful is the grotesque champion, who is more like a solo version of the grotesque (thing of him as a sergeant, not a captain), and while the halfbreed champion is usually better (more powerful, plus the advantages of individual) the very fact that the grotesque champion is not an individual means that he can get double or triple attacks for flank and rear charges, so there might be a niche for him with the right support (but in doubpt the HB champion will usually be a better choise)

Finally there is also the option of heroes on big flying monsters.

Compared to that, the vanilla dwarves have :

- mounted berserker hero (nice missile)

- king on beast (rather slow, but a small tank by itself)

- the badger cavalry, granted it's a very, very good medium cavalry, but it sometimes hard to support it, as you don't have cheap and fast chaff like the gargoyles to screen them

Currently the lists that you posted are more similar to a vanilla dwarf list with earth elementals and bombards, it's not bad per se, but it's very defensive and it's an army that will maily react to what your opponent is doing, so the game play will not be for everyone, many players prefer a more agressive approach