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Hi,

I played my first real game of 40K the other day. It went ok, but I came across the challenge of killing a couple of Foetid Bloat Drones. I didn't know what I was facing, so just make up an army. I'm not too hung up about the game too much (it ended up a victory point draw) but I'd like to learn a bit more.

It was a 750 point battle. I can't 100% remember his army.

Opponent:
Chaos - Death Guard
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
2x 7 man Plague Marine units with a mix of bolters, plasma and launchers
2x Foetid Bloat Drones

Me:
Chaos - Renegade Legions
1x Chaos Lord w/ combimelta and Powerfist
1x Exalted Champion w/ boltgun and chainsword
2x 5man CSM Squads (with a mix of plasma and a heavy bolter)
1x 10man autogun cultist squad w/ Stubber
1x 10 man close combat cultist squad w/Flamer
8x Bezerkers w/ bolt pistols & chainsword
1x Rhino
1x Hellbrute w/ Multimelta & hellbrute fist.

I ended up getting a turn 2 charge with the berzerkers from the rhino into the plague marines, but they did 0 wounds in two rounds of fighting (they get to fight twice)... even with exalted champion support. The exalted champion killed one plague marine.
After some shooting, I charge the rhino into both bloat drones and then charge in my chaos lord and the hellbrute too. I end up getting the one bloat drone down to 1 wound after a couple of rounds, and the other nowhere near dead. I was trying to concentrate fire as much as possible.

The problem I had was a lack of long range anti-tank weapons. But besides that the bloat drones has a normal save... the daemonic save AND the disgustingly resilient on each wound! I just couldn't kill them.
I did decide that the berzerkers would've been better with a chainaxe and chainsword, as I didn't fire the bolt pistols (As they charged and advanced as renegades). The extra AP would have scored a couple more wounds.

Is there anything else I could've done? The drones were rather frustrating, especially as they could also fly, so I couldn't stick them down in close combat. Also Nurgle has a strategem, to make sure it explodes!!!!

Sounds like the dudes dice were hot. Nothing you can do against that.

Berserkers should have easily deleted the PM on the charge same with the hellbrute on the FBD.

You my friend had some bad luck.

2 Bloat Drones and a Prince in 750 points is extremely tough, even without 14 plague marines with the perfect anti-power-armor-equipment.

Usually I don't bring more than 1 drone in 1000point games as it's not fun for my opponents to face these things.

Charging the Rhino first onto the drones is a good move to swallow those flamers (I assume he had plague spitters on both drones? Other loadouts aren't that annoying) With your Berserkers, lord, champion you could have had a chance to clear out the Plague marines, though they're tough, too.
I'd swap the multimelta on the helbrute for scourge or a second fist, that way the helbrute is actually quite a beast in CC for its points.
You could try out going World eaters with your list for additional CC-punch. Against DG the additional movement from renegades is not that necessary.

Chainaxes on bezerkers are a must +1S and -1AP should make it easier to cut down the plague marines.

As for the bloat drones, I'd highly recommend shooting them out of the sky with Havocs with lascannons, with mark of Slaaneshi and Endless Cacophony for double the shots - you could potentially down both in a turn of shooting if you're lucky.

The Chainaxe is the most iconic Berzerker weapon there is, for a reason. +1 S and -1 AP make all the difference in the world.

His dice were hot and mine seemed subpar, but I'm not blaming that... it was just unfortunate. He was initially terrified of my Berzerkers and wanted to see what they could do (being as I could get to him so fast)

The FBD did indeed have those plague spitter things, which was annoying on the charge and against a blob of cultists. They didn't seem to do much damage against the rhino, which was fortunate for me. All he did was disengage and because he could fly he could shoot stuff again!

I'll consider removing the heavy bolter on the one CSM and adding in something like a lascannon or devastators. I was running a battalion and fishing for CP, but that overcomplicated it. I did make some rookie mistakes, like forgetting to use all my CP and also to roll to repair my rhino and when the hellbrute was wounded. It was still a learning game.

I didn't even touch his daemon prince, he was just using it to buff his Plague Marines... it has some armour relic on it which mean that it reflected wounds back. I might not get to play him again tonight, but it'll be good to tweak my army a little.

What will World Eaters give? Is it +1 Attack on the Charge? I can see that being more helpful with Chain Axes. I went for the Renegade Chapter, so I could get a massive charge out of the Rhino (as you've got to disembark before moving the rhino). Rhino 12inch move + advance, then next turn was a 3" disembark, advanced, so up to 12" and then a charge, up to another 12". I needed to move around 20" to get to his plague marines, which I did with ease.

It was fun, but I can see if he was a regular opponent it would get frustrating as I hardly killed anything.

Especially at smaller points values, you'll find the layered saves of the Bloat Drones can have a huge effect on the game, on way or another. It doesn't take too many passed 5+ saves to really neuter your army's shooting and with so few points on the table one or two lucky rolls from your opponent can swing things in their favour. At higher points values you have more shooting to dedicate to killing things so the individual effect of making a couple of extra 5+ saves isn't as important.

In this case I think you were unlucky not to kill any Plague Marines with your Berzerkers. I also think you have very little anti-tank shooting to deal with the Drones in the first place, and a fairly odd mix of weapons in general. With Berzerkers in your army you can deal with infantry fairly well so I'd be making sure all your heavy and special weapons are dedicated to anti tank.

A rolled up tv guide works for me.

Slipspace wrote:Especially at smaller points values, you'll find the layered saves of the Bloat Drones can have a huge effect on the game, on way or another. It doesn't take too many passed 5+ saves to really neuter your army's shooting and with so few points on the table one or two lucky rolls from your opponent can swing things in their favour. At higher points values you have more shooting to dedicate to killing things so the individual effect of making a couple of extra 5+ saves isn't as important.

In this case I think you were unlucky not to kill any Plague Marines with your Berzerkers. I also think you have very little anti-tank shooting to deal with the Drones in the first place, and a fairly odd mix of weapons in general. With Berzerkers in your army you can deal with infantry fairly well so I'd be making sure all your heavy and special weapons are dedicated to anti tank.

I agree. I know I don't need to go WYSIWYG, but that was basically what I did on most of the models. Makes my life easier.
I was thinking about the only reason to take CSM is to make up troops points. Its better to take Havocs as then you get more access to special and heavy weapons (which you don't need to take) and if you need to pay troop tax for CP you're better off with cultists!

hobojebus wrote:A rolled up tv guide works for me.

I was tempted.

TarkinLarson wrote:


The problem I had was a lack of long range anti-tank weapons. But besides that the bloat drones has a normal save... the daemonic save AND the disgustingly resilient on each wound! I just couldn't kill them.

Probably i'm just misunderstanding, but you are not implying that he was taking 3 different saves on each attack right?

TarkinLarson wrote:


I didn't even touch his daemon prince, he was just using it to buff his Plague Marines... it has some armour relic on it which mean that it reflected wounds back. I might not get to play him again tonight, but it'll be good to tweak my army a little.

This is the Suppurating Plate, which gives a 2+ armour save and potentially bounces mortal wounds back onto the attacker in CC.

If he was bouncing mortal wounds back onto you from shooting then he's a very naughty boy.

World eaters legion trait is really good, but not using chainaxes is subpar at best. I've chewed through so much since stuff with that +1S/-1AP. Strength 6 berserkers are feared, and rightfully so.
I'm your case, it makes them wound PM on a 3 instead of a 4.

Spoletta wrote:

TarkinLarson wrote:


The problem I had was a lack of long range anti-tank weapons. But besides that the bloat drones has a normal save... the daemonic save AND the disgustingly resilient on each wound! I just couldn't kill them.

Probably i'm just misunderstanding, but you are not implying that he was taking 3 different saves on each attack right?

You're not misunderstanding because I didn't explain it well... No he was just taking the two... either the invulnerable save (for being a daemon) or the armour save, whatever was lower on hits that woundeded AND the feel no pain (on all wounds caused by damage... so D3 would be three FNP rolls.) He didn't take the invulnerable save AND an armour save.

lare2 wrote:

TarkinLarson wrote:


I didn't even touch his daemon prince, he was just using it to buff his Plague Marines... it has some armour relic on it which mean that it reflected wounds back. I might not get to play him again tonight, but it'll be good to tweak my army a little.

This is the Suppurating Plate, which gives a 2+ armour save and potentially bounces mortal wounds back onto the attacker in CC.

If he was bouncing mortal wounds back onto you from shooting then he's a very naughty boy.

No wasn't in shooting. He hid the daemon prince behind his Plague Marines. It did do a heroic intervention when I charged with Bezerkers, but it made me think twice before attacking with my Bezerkers... "The bearer has a Save characteristic of 2+. In addition, roll a dice each time this model passes a saving throw in the Fight phase. On a 4+, the unit that inflicted that wound suffers a mortal wound after all of its own attacks have been resolved"

Doesn't disgustingly resilient work against mortal wounds too? That also sucks!

No wasn't in shooting. He hid the daemon prince behind his Plague Marines. It did do a heroic intervention when I charged with Bezerkers, but it made me think twice before attacking with my Bezerkers... "The bearer has a Save characteristic of 2+. In addition, roll a dice each time this model passes a saving throw in the Fight phase. On a 4+, the unit that inflicted that wound suffers a mortal wound after all of its own attacks have been resolved"

That's the one and good to hear.

Not that it helps you but I lost 3 bloat drones in one round of shooting the other night... to 3 knights. 1 knight per bloat drone. Made me chuckle.

 lare2 wrote:

No wasn't in shooting. He hid the daemon prince behind his Plague Marines. It did do a heroic intervention when I charged with Bezerkers, but it made me think twice before attacking with my Bezerkers... "The bearer has a Save characteristic of 2+. In addition, roll a dice each time this model passes a saving throw in the Fight phase. On a 4+, the unit that inflicted that wound suffers a mortal wound after all of its own attacks have been resolved"

That's the one and good to hear.

Not that it helps you but I lost 3 bloat drones in one round of shooting the other night... to 3 knights. 1 knight per bloat drone. Made me chuckle.

Ah, so it is possible ... but that's a lot of points expended just to get rid of FBDs!. I suppose that's the point. I guess against high Toughness and things with armour saves FBDs aren't that good. Is putting less emphasis on killing them advisable? They were ripping through my cultists which were on the victory points otherwise.

I'm building a Knight and was planning a 750point 1x Knight Warden and 2x Armiger Warglaives as House Griffith for 750 points. I will warn my friends before I bring it out thought, and probably just bring a normal 750point army too .