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Two questions regarding summoning units via daemonic ritual:

1. Does summoning units circumvent the rule of 3? Example: can I summon a 4th or 5th unit of plague drones or flesh hounds in matched play?

2. Can units be summoned via daemonic ritual on turn one despite the tactical reserves rule in matched play?

 son_of_osiris wrote:
Two questions regarding summoning units via daemonic ritual:

1. Does summoning units circumvent the rule of 3? Example: can I summon a 4th or 5th unit of plague drones or flesh hounds in matched play?

2. Can units be summoned via daemonic ritual on turn one despite the tactical reserves rule in matched play?

to my knowledge, if you have the pts free and the models and manage to not feth up the roll then yes to 1.

2. the only requirement to summon/ attempt to summon is that the chaos Charachter stood still.

 son_of_osiris wrote:
Two questions regarding summoning units via daemonic ritual:

1. Does summoning units circumvent the rule of 3? Example: can I summon a 4th or 5th unit of plague drones or flesh hounds in matched play?

2. Can units be summoned via daemonic ritual on turn one despite the tactical reserves rule in matched play?

1. It doesn't circumvent it so much as doesn't interact with it at all. Summoned units are never part of any detachment and so are never included in a Battle-forged army. Keep in mind summoned CHARACTERS will never gain a Daemonic Loci but can benefit from other CHARACTER auras. Also, to nitpick, the "Rule of 3" is not a matched play rule. It's a suggestion for Organised Events.

2. Again, Daemonic Summoning doesn't interact with Tactical Reserves whatsoever. Tactical Reserves only applies to units that are "set up" somewhere other than the battlefield. Daemonic Ritual never sets up the unit anywhere other than the battlefield, they literally materialise from your pool of Reinforcement Points.

Can i summon a unit which is not in my army list ? For example, my list is a battalion with 3 HQ, can i summon a 4th HQ, if i have enough reinforcement points set aside ?

 p5freak wrote:
Can i summon a unit which is not in my army list ? For example, my list is a battalion with 3 HQ, can i summon a 4th HQ, if i have enough reinforcement points set aside ?

Summoned units are not a part of any detachment.

 p5freak wrote:
Can i summon a unit which is not in my army list ? For example, my list is a battalion with 3 HQ, can i summon a 4th HQ, if i have enough reinforcement points set aside ?

Yes, because summoned units do not take up any slots in a detachment. They are, in fact, not part of any detachment at all.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, because summoned units do not take up any slots in a detachment. They are, in fact, not part of any detachment at all.

If a unit is not part of any detachment, is it part of my army ?

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, because summoned units do not take up any slots in a detachment. They are, in fact, not part of any detachment at all.

If a unit is not part of any detachment, is it part of my army ?

Yes.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, because summoned units do not take up any slots in a detachment. They are, in fact, not part of any detachment at all.

If a unit is not part of any detachment, is it part of my army ?

Yes.

I disagree. In a battle forged army all your units must be in detachments. Check the BRB pg. 240. Therefore, a summoned unit, which is not part of a detachment, is not part of your army. Which means you can summon additional units which normally can only be included in your army once.

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, because summoned units do not take up any slots in a detachment. They are, in fact, not part of any detachment at all.

If a unit is not part of any detachment, is it part of my army ?

Yes.

I disagree. In a battle forged army all your units must be in detachments. Check the BRB pg. 240. Therefore, a summoned unit, which is not part of a detachment, is not part of your army. Which means you can summon additional units which normally can only be included in your army once.

EXCEPT: that battleforged is determined before you use your Summoning.
Since you just put points aside instead of models, you therefore don't have models that are not in a detachment.

 p5freak wrote:
I disagree. In a battle forged army all your units must be in detachments. Check the BRB pg. 240. Therefore, a summoned unit, which is not part of a detachment, is not part of your army. Which means you can summon additional units which normally can only be included in your army once.

Firstly, that's only true about making your army list pre game.

Secondly, yes, you can summon "unique" units more than once. Why did you think you couldn't?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
I disagree. In a battle forged army all your units must be in detachments. Check the BRB pg. 240. Therefore, a summoned unit, which is not part of a detachment, is not part of your army. Which means you can summon additional units which normally can only be included in your army once.

Firstly, that's only true about making your army list pre game.

Secondly, yes, you can summon "unique" units more than once. Why did you think you couldn't?

Because the datasheet says that unique units can only be in your army once. And if you summon another one you have two of those unique units.

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
I disagree. In a battle forged army all your units must be in detachments. Check the BRB pg. 240. Therefore, a summoned unit, which is not part of a detachment, is not part of your army. Which means you can summon additional units which normally can only be included in your army once.

Firstly, that's only true about making your army list pre game.

Secondly, yes, you can summon "unique" units more than once. Why did you think you couldn't?

Because the datasheet says that unique units can only be in your army once.

Again, that is only when making your army roster pre-game. Summoning doesn't care about that.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Again, that is only when making your army roster pre-game. Summoning doesn't care about that.

Not sure if a TO would agree that whats written on a datasheet only applies to making your army roster. This can lead to some absurd combos.

Not really? You still need to pay the points for the unit and need to pass a summoning test AND have a unit able to do the summoning. Nothing broken about it.

Also screaming "I don't like it" doesn't change the rules.

 p5freak wrote:

Because the datasheet says that unique units can only be in your army once. And if you summon another one you have two of those unique units.

The subject of summoning unique characters with daemonic ritual has fortunately been faqd. Hard to find tho cos it's in the csm faq (obviously right?!)

Q: If I have a Daemon model that can only be included once
in my army – for example, the Changeling – and that model is
slain during the game, can I use Daemonic Ritual to attempt to
summon it and add it to my army again?
A: Yes. Note that if you’re playing a matched play game
you’ll need the appropriate reinforcement points to do so.


So you can summon a unique model - if it has been slain.

FWIW, you don't have to wait for the model to be slain IMHO, but I can see why people would think that it does.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

The subject of summoning unique characters with daemonic ritual has fortunately been faqd. Hard to find tho cos it's in the csm faq (obviously right?!)

Q: If I have a Daemon model that can only be included once
in my army – for example, the Changeling – and that model is
slain during the game, can I use Daemonic Ritual to attempt to
summon it and add it to my army again?
A: Yes. Note that if you’re playing a matched play game
you’ll need the appropriate reinforcement points to do so.


So you can summon a unique model - if it has been slain.

Classic GW move, hide it in another codex FAQ This answers if a unique slain model can be summoned, but it doesnt answer if you can summon a unique model which is still in your army. I wouldnt mind having 3 or 4 blue scribes in my army, automatically manifesting psychic powers which already have been manifested, and which cant be denied. Getting +4 to wound rolls for a daemon unit ? Pink horrors wounding a knight on 2+ ? Sounds insane. But i am not convinced that its actually possible to summon multiple unique models.

You're paying for those models and have to somehow summon them, so it balances out.