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They did a great job buffing the heavy javelin. Felt way too squishy during the demo, but now feels about right really. Do think they need to buff assault cannons a bit though, but theyr'e very close to a good spot.

Eumerin wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Alot of the commentary I'm reading/watching is that with 5+ years of development that this kind of stuff should have been in the game in the first place like the first end game "cataclysm".

IMO, it depends on what's involved in preparation. If it takes the "average" (whatever that means) player a little while to prepare for it, then it's not such a big deal. And it shuts down the power gamer who blows through *all* of the content in a couple of weeks, and then starts screaming for more while the more typical players are still working on getting there. Slowing down the power gamers through slow-walking releases is pretty typical for on-line game developers. It's not until it slows down the more typical players that it starts to become a problem.


But we won't know until it rolls out, so we'll have to wait and see whether it deserves criticism or not.

Well aside from being puzzled by the idea that anything is undeserving of criticism, content is a big problem for games, and developers too often underestimate what the 'average player' will blow through, especially if it's loot'n'shoot kind of play. (or MMO play in general, Blizz gets hammered on this each and every expansion)

But having 'expand progression' being 2 months away (scheduled, not actual) and a vague 'cataclysm starts' at 3 months, with acts 2 and 3 off in a nebulous future, I really expect even 'average players' will be done long before the 'expanded progression' of a mastery system drops in April.

----

My big question (one that started in Inquisition and was cranked up to 11 in Andromeda) is... why is Bioware so terrible at menus? There is zero reason for burying multi-layered nests of information that way. The important stuff should be on the top, not the bottom.

I'm not sure it has any less content than Warframe, Destiny, or Destiny 2 did at launch. Those have years worth of additional content to go through (especially Warframe, given that it's one of the older and more defining examples of this style of game), but you have to remember how they were at launch as well. It's like a new MMO launching and someone complaining it doesn't have as much content as the latest version of WoW. But WoW has had like a decade of time and literally billions of dollars with which to add new content, so that's really not a good comparison.

 Melissia wrote:
I'm not sure it has any less content than Warframe, Destiny, or Destiny 2 did at launch. Those have years worth of additional content to go through (especially Warframe, given that it's one of the older and more defining examples of this style of game), but you have to remember how they were at launch as well. It's like a new MMO launching and someone complaining it doesn't have as much content as the latest version of WoW. But WoW has had like a decade of time and literally billions of dollars with which to add new content, so that's really not a good comparison.

Well, no. The comparison isn't about WoW as a whole, but the limited content in each expansion. People finish them in a matter of days (in extreme cases overnight), except for grinding Rep and hunting for rare loot drops. In this regard, it's exactly the right comparison. At about 3 months and 6 months, Blizz drops patches X.1 and X.2 unlocking new areas, which again are consumed in a matter of days or hours. WoW is designed to ignore old content unless you want to grind out achievements or costume appearances. Every expansion now comes with a level boost so players never have to touch the old content, because they know the majority of their player base isn't interested and doesn't bother. At best, the hundreds of theoretical hours [in reality, leveling is absurdly fast] of old content is something to do in the down time when their isn't any new content, which if you look at the WoW forums, is generally felt to be most of the time. The item level systems pretty much guarantees that- nothing picked up outside the current patch is relevant to character progression, and there are almost always catch up mechanics to skip up to the beginning of the current patch.

I am talking about how those other looter/shooter games were at launch, though. That's actually my point- companies consistently underestimate how quickly players burn through content. One of the major problems of Anthem that keeps coming up is Bioware has learned nothing from their competitors, and Anthem was released based on 2012 assumptions (and broader principles that have been a factor in online games since mid-2000), as if the past 6 years of lessons for the genre never happened. Its the same kind of missions with the same kind of problems and if you aren't twitching power by +1 and wondering what all your percentages in various things add up to (because they failed to include a character screen !!), there isn't any point in the current 'end game'


[Aside: Blizzard also doesn't add anything close to 'literally billions of dollars' of new content. They make an absurd amount of money, but that doesn't go toward the games or the dev teams. They just, for example, had a record breaking year... and fired 800 people. Though most of that didn't affect the WoW dev team, which never recovered past 60-70 people after the layoffs of years ago]

No, I'm saying they have billions of dollars worth of income to use for development. Not that they use it all on development. WoW is basically a way for Activision-Blizzard to print money.

No one finished both Horde and Alliance quest chains in every zone for BfA overnight. Leveling 110-120 !== all content. Doing that in under 30 hours would require tons of prep, to include playing in beta to know exactly the best path to take. Even then that seems like a stretch. I could see doing it in under 40 or the 50-60 range for most people. Note: doing 2~ full zones of quests would get you to 120. IIRC, both factions got 4, plus the faction war quest chain. All content at launch together, dungeons, raids, and quest chains would probably take 72~ hours to get through once for a dedicated player. IMO, that's not a 'very little' content. The problem for Blizzard is that people routinely play 20+ hours during the initial weeks of launch and burn through everything.

By comparison, the ME Trilogy each ran around 40-50 hours to complete all storyline content (maybe more with expansions). DA:I took me around 60~ hours on my first play through (including all expansions). I don't think Blizzard's content compares poorly to single player games, gamers just log a lot of hours.

Edit: Looking back, KotOR didn't have much content compared to a many modern and older RPGs. I think finishing it took under 35 hours even on my first play through.

 Melissia wrote:
How exactly are you finding abilities useless? The Ranger for example; the grenade kills a horde of enemies, the smart missile deals a ton of damage in one shot, etc. And both recharge pretty fast.

And to be honest the only weapon that has a ton of recoil is the LMG, and well, it's an LMG, so it's about what one would expect?

Because all of the weapons on the Colosuss other than the Flamethrower and Lightning Coil have way to long of a recharge for what they do. I had the same issue with the Railgun that i did in the beta, the hit boxes dont seem to work for it all the time and an enemy standing still, with the Target Icon in Red still misses way more than it should, or hits the wall two feet bellow where I was aiming. The Flack Canon fires too slowly, recharges too long and has too much spread. The Assault Launcher seemed ok. All of the mortars seemed eniterly situational.

There's the unreliability I have experienced with those or I can use the Lightning Coil and Flamethrower, with the occasional shield bash and pretty much never need to use one of the basic guns ever. Which is fine, because most of the guns seem pretty meh in the first place. Suffering from too much recoil, or just uninspiring damage. As for what to expect with the LMG or Autocannons is power armor to be able to handle the recoil, because its power armor and its built to resist recoil.

My weekend was spent doing nothing but Antheming, got up to level 22 or so I think. Overall the colossus is my favorite. I tried Storm first, then collossus then the little ninja one. I think I like it more because the colossus just feels more Mechy to me. I usually go with a LMG and a grenade launcher, and then I have a cannon that hits pretty hard and the mortar thingy, but I agree they recharge too slow for what they do. I usually end up using my guns more than my powers, but I do love the ultimate cannon. I did the stronghold with the big bug, soon as that thing appeared everyone hit it with their ultimates at the same time and dropped it down to like 25% health. Was an easy fight after that.

Overall really enjoying the game. The story is cool and the missions are fun. Dammit Owen!

I don't find them to have a terribly long recharge at all? The super-shotgun one currently on my colossus for example has two shots for recharge, and recharges in like three to five seconds. The cluster mortar recharges in at most seven to ten (but I'm pretty sure it's shorter?), and it's a fairly strong skill. Sometimes they'll recharge faster than I realize and even end up going unused for some time.

 Necros wrote:
Dammit Owen!

Seriously, feth that guy

But yeah, have to concur with the positive impressions. Between the weekend and early access week I kicked up to level 25, mostly by just zooming in freeplay and farming the first stronghold for goodies while experimenting with builds. Currently using an artillery storm (Frost blast and fireball) for ranged AoE goodness and a close-in Interceptor (still trying to figure out my favorite build, but it for sure involves the acid grenade because its such a fantastic force multiplier).

Tech issues are better, though the occasional disconnect or stalled mission in Quickplay still happens. I came in with pretty low expectations, but am pleasantly surprised. I wouldnt call it a GotY contender, but for me it's a quite enjoyable title I dont regret spending money on.

I think the cannon i'm using has a 14 second recharge, i forget what it's called. Either way it's not a complaint, just wish it was a little faster. I saved up my cash and bought that special colossus suit from the store for 61k credits, looks badass

I only had 1 glitch with the game, a couple times in the middle of a mission the sound just stopped working. On Xbox One X, dunno about PCs. Pretty much have to quit the game completely and come back to fix it.

I kinda wish there was cross play, so I could switch over to my PC when my girlfriend decrees it's time for her to play fortnite.

 Melissia wrote:
I don't find them to have a terribly long recharge at all? The super-shotgun one currently on my colossus for example has two shots for recharge, and recharges in like three to five seconds. The cluster mortar recharges in at most seven to ten (but I'm pretty sure it's shorter?), and it's a fairly strong skill. Sometimes they'll recharge faster than I realize and even end up going unused for some time.

Maybe they get better and I just need to stick with it. But the Flak Cannon I had was 2 shots also, but there was a few second delay between shots that was annoying when in the thick of things.

Your component choice can have a major impact on recharge times. Dunno about the Colossus, but both the Storm and Interceptor have multiple gear items that reduce cooldowns considerably.

Weapons can also drop which speed up CDs on one or both of your non-Ultimate abilities.

Fairly confident I've had +Speed for Ult on a weapon, too.

I've been playing this game as much as I could since Friday, and am loving it so far.

Although I had to AFK after the second trial of Fortress of Dawn. Got back, expected to be kicked out of the mission, but found the success screen instead.

The after-mission cutscene makes me know I now hate Owen, but it sucks to lose out on seeing *why* I should hate him. And, with no way to replay that mission aside from either lucking into it with Quickplay (waiting on that until I finish the game) or starting a new toon (and replaying up to that point), it'll be a while before I see it.

Aside from that, the game is great so far.

The gaming news (source is Eurogamer) is reporting that Anthem physical sales in the UK are half that of Andromeda two years ago and lower than other recent releases like Resident Evil 2 remake and Kingdom Hearts 3 in their first week. Obviously there are caveats in that digital sales percentage will only go up with time and it's the UK only but regardless it's not looking good for EA's goal of 5-6 million copies of Anthem sold by the end of March. Additionally, it looks like Amazon UK has started adjusting their price for the game down to 35-39 GBP (it apparently varies with the number of immediate sales).

It's been fun playing but I have a feeling it's gonna be the kind of game that gets better with age.. like the Division was just kinda OK at first but got a lot better over time. Hopefully EA doesn't give up on it.

I think the fact that it has EA's name on it is hurting it the most, like the name is poison these days.

 warboss wrote:
The gaming news (source is Eurogamer) is reporting that Anthem physical sales in the UK are half that of Andromeda two years ago and lower than other recent releases like Resident Evil 2 remake and Kingdom Hearts 3 in their first week. Obviously there are caveats in that digital sales percentage will only go up with time and it's the UK only but regardless it's not looking good for EA's goal of 5-6 million copies of Anthem sold by the end of March. Additionally, it looks like Amazon UK has started adjusting their price for the game down to 35-39 GBP (it apparently varies with the number of immediate sales).

OH NO! PHYSICAL SALES ARE DOWN?!
What a shock!


Why do people bother posting stuff like this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Necros wrote:
It's been fun playing but I have a feeling it's gonna be the kind of game that gets better with age.. like the Division was just kinda OK at first but got a lot better over time. Hopefully EA doesn't give up on it.

I think the fact that it has EA's name on it is hurting it the most, like the name is poison these days.

No, what's "hurting it the most" is that people don't seem to comprehend the idea of "I expect this game to be as much content as Division/Destiny right off the bat!". I have several people on my friends list for XBL whining about having "nothing to do" when they:
-Bought EA Access to power through the main story before the game was even generally available.
-Have done nothing but run Strongholds since the game launched.

We're talking people clocking 8 or more hours a session. They come home from work, get on, then go till 1am or so. It's ridiculous.

 Kanluwen wrote:

OH NO! PHYSICAL SALES ARE DOWN?!
What a shock!


Why do people bother posting stuff like this?

Because it's the only hard number indicator that we have even if not a complete picture and it is still indicative of total sales. Along with premature discounting, it was the first indicator that we had of lower than expected sales for example for Battlefield V until it was confirmed in a quarterly earnings call by the CEO of EA.

So I still havent broken away from the Flamethrower and Lightning Coil + Shield Combo ( think thats just my Colossus Playstyle and Im ok with that) but I found an Autocannon i like alot more, its the one that gets more accurate as you fire. Recoil seems much more manageable.

 Kanluwen wrote:

No, what's "hurting it the most" is that people don't seem to comprehend the idea of "I expect this game to be as much content as Division/Destiny right off the bat!"

To be fair, the exact same complaint was directed at The Division and Destiny when they released. With the Division I'd say it was pretty damn accurate. That game had jack all to do after leveling if the whole dark zone or whatever it was called didn't appeal to you. Destiny at least had PVP... for what little that was worth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
I'm not sure it has any less content than Warframe, Destiny, or Destiny 2 did at launch. Those have years worth of additional content to go through (especially Warframe, given that it's one of the older and more defining examples of this style of game).

I'd go so far as to say that Warframe today is a completely different game from Warframe at launch. I remember when Excalibur, Volt, and Mag were the only Warframes in the game during the beta (alpha?) and to even call it a game then would be exceedingly generous.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Necros wrote:
It's been fun playing but I have a feeling it's gonna be the kind of game that gets better with age.. like the Division was just kinda OK at first but got a lot better over time. Hopefully EA doesn't give up on it.

I think the fact that it has EA's name on it is hurting it the most, like the name is poison these days.

No, what's "hurting it the most" is that people don't seem to comprehend the idea of "I expect this game to be as much content as Division/Destiny right off the bat!". I have several people on my friends list for XBL whining about having "nothing to do" when they:
-Bought EA Access to power through the main story before the game was even generally available.
-Have done nothing but run Strongholds since the game launched.

We're talking people clocking 8 or more hours a session. They come home from work, get on, then go till 1am or so. It's ridiculous.

Why is that ridiculous?
It indicates a genuine enthusiasm for the game, frustrated only by the game itself. You're honestly complaining that they enjoyed the game and want more of it.

After a five year development cycle... It doesn't seem unreasonable to want more out of the endgame than refighting boss fights for uninspiring loot drops.

And again, it's a known issue and top complaint for these types of games, and could have been accounted for.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

No, what's "hurting it the most" is that people don't seem to comprehend the idea of "I expect this game to be as much content as Division/Destiny right off the bat!"

To be fair, the exact same complaint was directed at The Division and Destiny when they released. With the Division I'd say it was pretty damn accurate. That game had jack all to do after leveling if the whole dark zone or whatever it was called didn't appeal to you. Destiny at least had PVP... for what little that was worth.

Which was my point, that I could have expounded on a bit more.

Every time a game like this comes out, people inevitably expect as much content as established games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Necros wrote:
It's been fun playing but I have a feeling it's gonna be the kind of game that gets better with age.. like the Division was just kinda OK at first but got a lot better over time. Hopefully EA doesn't give up on it.

I think the fact that it has EA's name on it is hurting it the most, like the name is poison these days.

No, what's "hurting it the most" is that people don't seem to comprehend the idea of "I expect this game to be as much content as Division/Destiny right off the bat!". I have several people on my friends list for XBL whining about having "nothing to do" when they:
-Bought EA Access to power through the main story before the game was even generally available.
-Have done nothing but run Strongholds since the game launched.

We're talking people clocking 8 or more hours a session. They come home from work, get on, then go till 1am or so. It's ridiculous.

Why is that ridiculous?
It indicates a genuine enthusiasm for the game, frustrated only by the game itself. You're honestly complaining that they enjoyed the game and want more of it.

After a five year development cycle... It doesn't seem unreasonable to want more out of the endgame than refighting boss fights for uninspiring loot drops.

And again, it's a known issue and top complaint for these types of games, and could have been accounted for.

Seriously? You don't understand why people who paid for an early access service specifically to level up before everyone else are ridiculous for whining about having nothing to do?

This is the issue, not the games themselves. People don't seem to grasp that you don't have to bingeplay a game to the point of excluding everything/anything else.

 LordofHats wrote:
I'd go so far as to say that Warframe today is a completely different game from Warframe at launch. I remember when Excalibur, Volt, and Mag were the only Warframes in the game during the beta (alpha?) and to even call it a game then would be exceedingly generous.

I remember during the beta when they had the ability to flat out buy additional power on top of your normal power for maxed out warframes. Thankfully that didn't make it in to the full game of Warframe! Though Anthem is still more bug-free than Warframe-- the same obnoxious team invite bug that existed some time ago still hasn't been fixed, for example. And with Destiny 2 don't forget they got caught with their pants down deliberately slowing down progression (especially end-game progression) in order to encourage people to buy more lootboxes... twice.

I got to the last main story mission last night, even though I still had a couple of other side quests... it wouldn't let me do the side quests though :( would have been cool to do them first and get a an extra level or 2.

And then, right when we are fighting that final boss, he does some attack that wipes the whole group and for some reason I don't respawn, my broken heap of a collossus is just sitting there looking all sad and pathetic. The other guys in the team run up to try and fix me, and can't .. some kinda glitch. Had to just quit the game, and it was late so I didn't wanna try again.. will have to do it tonight.

Overall enjoyed the story but I kinda wish it was longer, maybe not RDR2 long, but another 6-8 missions would have been more fun, i kinda feel like you should be pushing level 30 by the end, i'm only 22 and I did all the side missions I could find.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seriously? You don't understand why people who paid for an early access service specifically to level up before everyone else are ridiculous for whining about having nothing to do?

This is the issue, not the games themselves. People don't seem to grasp that you don't have to bingeplay a game to the point of excluding everything/anything else.

I hear what you are saying, and I understand it. However, the fact there was going to be early access on Origin wasn't a secret and wasn't a surprise and I don't think they get to point to that and say well, that's why - they should have accounted for that a very long time ago.

They've been harping for a long time about games as a live service, not just a single player campaign you're expected to beat in X hours and be done with it. If you have people running out of stuff to do 4 days after the game officially drops, that's a bad look: early access or not.

I am still conflicted about getting the game. I watch gameplay and it seems fun, but I also wonder if I am going to get annoyed by forced into teaming with randos (which at my patience and skillset is pretty much the worst situation now).

 Ouze wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seriously? You don't understand why people who paid for an early access service specifically to level up before everyone else are ridiculous for whining about having nothing to do?

This is the issue, not the games themselves. People don't seem to grasp that you don't have to bingeplay a game to the point of excluding everything/anything else.

I hear what you are saying, and I understand it. However, the fact there was going to be early access on Origin wasn't a secret and wasn't a surprise and I don't think they get to point to that and say well, that's why - they should have accounted for that a very long time ago.

They did--because early access on Origin and EA Access were both paid and time-sensitive. 10 hours of gameplay.

It's worth noting that Playstation didn't get early access offered at all. Not because EA hates PSN or whatever--because Sony opted out of ever striking a deal with them for EA Access(which is effectively a Redbox/Netflix for EA titles. Pay a fee, get access to a library of games)

They've been harping for a long time about games as a live service, not just a single player campaign you're expected to beat in X hours and be done with it. If you have people running out of stuff to do 4 days after the game officially drops, that's a bad look: early access or not.

The problem, again, is that some (notably vocal) gamers nowadays do what is effectively a binge session to "reach the end ASAP". I don't think companies should be expected to cater to that garbage.

I'm not done with the story yet, despite someone who I started playing story with on launch day being done. Why?
Because I take breaks and have other games I play as well.

I am still conflicted about getting the game. I watch gameplay and it seems fun, but I also wonder if I am going to get annoyed by forced into teaming with randos (which at my patience and skillset is pretty much the worst situation now).

I mean, if you're concerned about that then avoid it. Because Strongholds(the equivalent to Dungeons/Strikes/Whatever you want to call a storytime instanced encounter) require you to be in a group of 4. You can go in with a group of people you choose or get matched with randos.

Freeplay is Public, but you're not forced into teaming up with anyone. Story stuff can be Private.

I would agree with Ouze.

I've noticed for some time now that AAA developers don't seem to get what a live service game should look like on any level. They seem to mistakenly assume they can just make games like they did before, throw in a bunch of microtransactions, and call it live service, but they all suffer from the same issues mixed with horribly unrealistic expectations from the publishers releasing them.

EA should have expected Anthem to have some of these issues, but then I think it's obvious the development team's work got scrapped once or twice cause Anthem doesn't look like a game that was worked on for six years.

 LordofHats wrote:
I would agree with Ouze.

I've noticed for some time now that AAA developers don't seem to get what a live service game should look like on any level. They seem to mistakenly assume they can just make games like they did before, throw in a bunch of microtransactions, and call it live service, but they all suffer from the same issues mixed with horribly unrealistic expectations from the publishers releasing them.

EA should have expected Anthem to have some of these issues, but then I think it's obvious the development team's work got scrapped once or twice cause Anthem doesn't look like a game that was worked on for six years.

It's worse than that. A "live service" game is an excuse to cut even more out of the game that was developed PRIOR to the release to add in at a later date as part of the "service" instead of releasing the full product at one time to get the minimum viable product at launch for the minimum cost. I watched the AngryJoe Anthem discussion video last night and he pointed out that the official dev streams a month ago featured 6 different helmets modeled, completed, and available for the javelin on screen and yet in game there are only one or two (one unlockable in game and the other a deluxe edition one?) that you can get currently. There are also dozens of materials on screen when they're scrolling through that screen as well. Those used to be things that were simply included in the base game at launch as easy unlockables in game that didn't require significant grinding or real world currency. Those are now instead the live service items that will likely be drip fed out over the coming months despite being ready before launch in order to pad out the live service at the expense of the base game.

 warboss wrote:

It's worse than that. A "live service" game is an excuse to cut even more out of the game that was developed PRIOR to the release to add in at a later date as part of the "service" instead of releasing the full product at one time to get the minimum viable product. I watched the AngryJoe Anthem discussion video last night and he pointed out that the dev streams a month ago featured 6 different helmets modeled, completed, and available for the javelin on screen and yet in game there are only one or two that you can unlock currently. There are also dozens of materials on screen when they're scrolling through that screen as well. Those used to be things that were simply included as easy unlockables in game that didn't require significant grinding or real world currency. Those are the live service items that will be drip fed out instead over the coming months.

Did you people not also pay attention to the fact that there's Stronghold drops of cosmetic crates that aren't in the game yet? That the various events are going to have cosmetic rewards as well as actual item drops?

I mean, what an absolute shock that game devs are showcasing builds that they're working on that have stuff not in the live game yet!

It's just in the same place MMOs were a decade ago. Everyone tries to make a game that people play and pay for forever, but ultimately, the community will largely consolidate around one of them (WoW) and the rest will drift towards various models to try and pick up the scraps. Introducing new challengers stops being an attractive proposal because they're not able to launch with enough content to compete with established entities and feel inherently years behind. It's just a limited market, particularly with, as mentioned, there being a crowd that races through the content at an impossible rate and then complains about having nothing to do while the average player will still be busy for a couple months at least.