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You can not summon a unit the first battleround. So round 2 and 3 will be filled with mass deepstrike. Perhaps the later turn will have something with the return to ambush stratagems.

How do people feel about GS not getting the cult creed? I am planing on mixing GSC and tyranids. What are the chances of making a 9" charge? I am almost better of flining GS withe the swarmlord, with him being 'only' 250 points now. It seems the better units to bring with GSC are mining tool hybrids and abominants. Thoughts?

I think you absolutely can summon in the first battle round.

The betta rule is a bit dubius.

But that stratagem could be our way of assaulting the first turn.

And maybe using with lying in wait..

I do not think it allows lying in wait. This is only allowed for cult ambush underground reserves.

But you could drop in first turn with the strategem I think. Demon summoning also works first turn afaik.

So with 4arm emperor, and 1cp stratagem of reroll chargues.. Maybe it will be really interesting.

Yes it will be. But it is slightly luck based since you need to roll how many models you can actually summon.

 Astmeister wrote:

 Jrandom wrote:
Thank you for clearing that up about GS not getting Creeds.

I have been trying to see about any goodness inside of the Hybrid Metamorphs. They are 9 pts a model, you can only get ten of them in a unit. I did notice, that if you replace their Rending Claw, with a 2nd Metamorph Talon, you get a model that has 5 attacks, hitting on 2s, with Str 4 (5 if you go Twisted Helix). Would it be worth it to spend 90pts on a group of these as chaff clearers?

I can't think of any other model (without any support) that can do that, for 9pts each.

Imho they might be worth it, if you are using them in a Goliath etc. Meaning you have a very limited number of models available, which should have maximum damage output against hordes. I thought about using 10 in a Goliath with Hand Flamers.

They are great. I used 10 of them with double talon in a battle this week and they were insanely good I buffed them with Triple Helix and +1str banner and they went through 20+ chaos cultists like they were nothing, next turn they dragged down a Deamon Prince. 51 attacks hitting on 2s at Strength 6 is insane for a 90pts unit. Easily would consider taking an Icon for rerolling 1s and have a Primus designate an enemy unit to give you rerolling 1s to wound. They are absolute blenders and I think they will easily replace Purestrains in my GSC army.

 Astmeister wrote:
Yes it will be. But it is slightly luck based since you need to roll how many models you can actually summon.

140 points arent many.

With 3 dices is easy get 9, thats 15 acolytes and 3 rock saws for example, if you roll 6, you summon 10 acolytes and 4 rock saws + some hand flamers.

Isnt bad.

Honestly though, it is a bit annoying that about 6 pages in the tactica, the main topics are mainly not being able to read the early scans.

Wait for the codex please ?

zamerion wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Yes it will be. But it is slightly luck based since you need to roll how many models you can actually summon.

140 points arent many.

With 3 dices is easy get 9, thats 15 acolytes and 3 rock saws for example, if you roll 6, you summon 10 acolytes and 4 rock saws + some hand flamers.

Isnt bad.

Requires reinforcement points, I would never use it if I were playing competitively

As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

zamerion wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Yes it will be. But it is slightly luck based since you need to roll how many models you can actually summon.

140 points arent many.

With 3 dices is easy get 9, thats 15 acolytes and 3 rock saws for example, if you roll 6, you summon 10 acolytes and 4 rock saws + some hand flamers.

Isnt bad.

Requires reinforcement points, I would never use it if I were playing competitively

I know, for this reason i said that are 140 points.

I think that being able to chargue witht a good unit the first turn, is priceless.

the_scotsman wrote:
As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

14 of the 22 Sisters units in the lack luster beta dex don't get Convictions....

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

14 of the 22 Sisters units in the lack luster beta dex don't get Convictions....

Oh, rip lol.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

14 of the 22 Sisters units in the lack luster beta dex don't get Convictions....

Oh, rip lol.

Shhhh, don't talk about that, nobody knows....

All Hail the Four Armed Emperor!

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

14 of the 22 Sisters units in the lack luster beta dex don't get Convictions....

Oh, rip lol.

-=Removed for a Rule #1 violation. Not acceptable language. -Lorek =-

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

14 of the 22 Sisters units in the lack luster beta dex don't get Convictions....

Oh, rip lol.

Oh I guess you didn't actually want facts - well FU maybe stop whining about your "problems" M8

What? I just hadn't realized the situation was that bad for the sisters stuff. Chill, buddy. "rip" is just a joking expression for "oh no, that thing is dead." Like a gravestone.

the_scotsman wrote:
As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

I'm genuinely not sure but can't the Genestealers and Patriarch benefit from Tyranid keyworded buffs? I don't know off the top of my head if there are any, mind you.

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

I'm genuinely not sure but can't the Genestealers and Patriarch benefit from Tyranid keyworded buffs? I don't know off the top of my head if there are any, mind you.

There is a faq that adds the buffs according to the type of "hive"

Also there is other faq that prevents using stratagems, reliqs, warlord traits and powers with cult, but I think there are doubts about if they can benefit from them.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 Jrandom wrote:
Thank you for clearing that up about GS not getting Creeds.

I have been trying to see about any goodness inside of the Hybrid Metamorphs. They are 9 pts a model, you can only get ten of them in a unit. I did notice, that if you replace their Rending Claw, with a 2nd Metamorph Talon, you get a model that has 5 attacks, hitting on 2s, with Str 4 (5 if you go Twisted Helix). Would it be worth it to spend 90pts on a group of these as chaff clearers?

I can't think of any other model (without any support) that can do that, for 9pts each.

Imho they might be worth it, if you are using them in a Goliath etc. Meaning you have a very limited number of models available, which should have maximum damage output against hordes. I thought about using 10 in a Goliath with Hand Flamers.

They are great. I used 10 of them with double talon in a battle this week and they were insanely good I buffed them with Triple Helix and +1str banner and they went through 20+ chaos cultists like they were nothing, next turn they dragged down a Deamon Prince. 51 attacks hitting on 2s at Strength 6 is insane for a 90pts unit. Easily would consider taking an Icon for rerolling 1s and have a Primus designate an enemy unit to give you rerolling 1s to wound. They are absolute blenders and I think they will easily replace Purestrains in my GSC army.

Afaik 10 Metamorphs with double Talon and Hand Flamers will cost
Metamorphs 9
2x Talon 2x1
Hand Flamer 1

12 points per model. The price is almost double that of acolytes, so you probably think twice about using them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just calculated how many points you pay for each hit for the two units.

Acolytes with Handflamer
4.0 pts per hit

Metamorphs with 2x Talon and Handflamer
2.88 pts per hit

So they really are significantly better for horde clearing. But I did not consider that the acolytes will have 2 attacks with rending claws and the metamorphs have no ap.
I still think that metamorphs will be better for horde clearing pointwise.

 Astmeister wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 Jrandom wrote:
Thank you for clearing that up about GS not getting Creeds.

I have been trying to see about any goodness inside of the Hybrid Metamorphs. They are 9 pts a model, you can only get ten of them in a unit. I did notice, that if you replace their Rending Claw, with a 2nd Metamorph Talon, you get a model that has 5 attacks, hitting on 2s, with Str 4 (5 if you go Twisted Helix). Would it be worth it to spend 90pts on a group of these as chaff clearers?

I can't think of any other model (without any support) that can do that, for 9pts each.

Imho they might be worth it, if you are using them in a Goliath etc. Meaning you have a very limited number of models available, which should have maximum damage output against hordes. I thought about using 10 in a Goliath with Hand Flamers.

They are great. I used 10 of them with double talon in a battle this week and they were insanely good I buffed them with Triple Helix and +1str banner and they went through 20+ chaos cultists like they were nothing, next turn they dragged down a Deamon Prince. 51 attacks hitting on 2s at Strength 6 is insane for a 90pts unit. Easily would consider taking an Icon for rerolling 1s and have a Primus designate an enemy unit to give you rerolling 1s to wound. They are absolute blenders and I think they will easily replace Purestrains in my GSC army.

Afaik 10 Metamorphs with double Talon and Hand Flamers will cost
Metamorphs 9
2x Talon 2x1
Hand Flamer 1

12 points per model. The price is almost double that of acolytes, so you probably think twice about using them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just calculated how many points you pay for each hit for the two units.

Acolytes with Handflamer
4.0 pts per hit

Metamorphs with 2x Talon and Handflamer
2.88 pts per hit

So they really are significantly better for horde clearing. But I did not consider that the acolytes will have 2 attacks with rending claws and the metamorphs have no ap.
I still think that metamorphs will be better for horde clearing pointwise.

I think the problem is, if you want to use both your hand flamer and your melee gear for horde clearing, you're not deep striking. I think it's significantly tougher to bring a unit to bear out of a transport than out of deep strike. And even then, I would most likely want to use Genestealers, who have the highest threat range popping out of a transport (3+8+D6+2D6" is a pretty good threat)

Well, with twisted helix they advance and charge from a transport at the exact same pace if you psychic stimulus them. They also don't drop an attack after 1 casualty, but are less durable. IDK which I'd rather take honestly.

That's the main issue I have with metamorphs, and granted it isn't a major one, they are required to be tailored to a job and usually there is something else competing with them that does the same job and something else.

It is interesting how you can stat pump them though. Claw metas from helix with might cast on them near the relic banner for example are s9 4(5?) attacks which is hilarious. It's way too pricey for me though since they are half the cost of an Abberant at that point. Maybe a small unit with talons would be OK as a bully unit in your back field or midfield hidden out of sight.

I got some orders today already as I mentioned in the rumors.

The power hammer is different than we thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
You can not summon a unit the first battleround. So round 2 and 3 will be filled with mass deepstrike. Perhaps the later turn will have something with the return to ambush stratagems.

How do people feel about GS not getting the cult creed? I am planing on mixing GSC and tyranids. What are the chances of making a 9" charge? I am almost better of flining GS withe the swarmlord, with him being 'only' 250 points now. It seems the better units to bring with GSC are mining tool hybrids and abominants. Thoughts?

Genestealers have two main advantages in GSC codex.
They are huge with a perfect Ambush Strategem.
They like to use the blip mechanic, because the opponent cannot avoid them easily.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Rules question : does a unit get +1 on charge, when they first come out of a transport, if they are Co4ae even if it is not first turn?
In principle it will still be the first turn that they are put on the battlefield.

Yeah, RAW right now, if you deploy them in the transport they're not "on the battlefield" until they first disembark.

So they'd get the +1 to charge (and advance, which they could actually use!)

That's actually pretty awesome. I never realized that interaction.

I'm on the opposite end from WAAC, so i refuse to ever take multiple factions in the same list even though it's obviously the way to go. It feels cheesy and wrong to me. That makes it a bit of a bummer that 4ae is almost necessary to make cult work, but becomes useless after turn 2. If this holds true it might make me want to use 4ae for my lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
As much as people complain about codex creep, GSc seem to have the most restricted subfaction tactics of any faction including space marines. Nearly 1/2 of the units in the codex do not gain cult creeds, compared to just about 1/3 of the units in the main space marine codex.

I've been saying this for the past week. Seems like a big flaw in the codex and i don't know why GW insists on having schizophrenia where some armies have factions that apply to every model and others have faction rules that only apply to a small handful of models.

With regards to chaff clearance, what about a 20 man unit of Brood Brothers, armed with Lasguns, using FRFSRF? They can potentially get +1 to hit, rerolling 1s to hit and wound. You don’t have to spend any CP (unlike the IG who would have to spend 1 to mob up a 20 man unit).

Having those bodies around, their secondary role (or maybe even primary) would be to provide extra wounds for characters via the Unquestioning Loyalty.

So you send them straight up the table and hopefully after they get off a FRFSRF volley, they might shock your opponent into drawing fire away from the Acolytes.

 Jrandom wrote:
With regards to chaff clearance, what about a 20 man unit of Brood Brothers, armed with Lasguns, using FRFSRF? They can potentially get +1 to hit, rerolling 1s to hit and wound. You don’t have to spend any CP (unlike the IG who would have to spend 1 to mob up a 20 man unit).

Having those bodies around, their secondary role (or maybe even primary) would be to provide extra wounds for characters via the Unquestioning Loyalty.

So you send them straight up the table and hopefully after they get off a FRFSRF volley, they might shock your opponent into drawing fire away from the Acolytes.

I think that the BB are restricted to 10 models + heavy weapons team.

 Astmeister wrote:


I think that the BB are restricted to 10 models + heavy weapons team.

You can have 20 models.

But, I just discovered that the Kelermorph and Jackal Alphus won't affect them, since they only affect Cult units. So no FRFSRF and reroll 1s to hit at the same time. No +1 to hit. :(

 Jrandom wrote:


You can have 20 models.

But, I just discovered that the Kelermorph and Jackal Alphus won't affect them, since they only affect Cult units. So no FRFSRF and reroll 1s to hit at the same time. No +1 to hit. :(

I spy "cult vox caster" upgrade... Same as standard Astra Militarum one?

The Cult Vox Caster only allows a morale reroll. So nothing special.

Brood Brother squads could be quite nasty, but I still feel like neos are the best option. For 1 point more you get the ability to Deepstrike into rapid fire range,

Having said that, as a primarily IG player, the ability to take 20 Guardsmen in a squad is very nice. I actually feel like this opens up the possibility for a pure Neo and Broodbrother horde army. A Battalion of Cult with 6x 20 man neo squads with Grenade Launchers and Mining Laser. Another Cult Battalion with 6x 20 man BB squads with Grenade Launcher and Lascannon. Take a Astra Militarum Supreme Command Detachment with 3x Company Comanders in it. Support both blobs with a Patriach and Iconward to make fearless and have a 6+++ save. Total of 240 bodies with 12 Mining Laser, 6 Lascannon and 24 Grenade Launchers.

The crazy thing is this is only about 1850 points, so you have enough points to chuck in a Kelamorph and Jackel Alpha.

End result, 120 guys deepstrike in with hitting on 3s rerolling 1s and 120 guys moving up the field with 2-4 shots per guy per turn.