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 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
Brood Brother squads could be quite nasty, but I still feel like neos are the best option. For 1 point more you get the ability to Deepstrike into rapid fire range,

Having said that, as a primarily IG player, the ability to take 20 Guardsmen in a squad is very nice. I actually feel like this opens up the possibility for a pure Neo and Broodbrother horde army. A Battalion of Cult with 6x 20 man neo squads with Grenade Launchers and Mining Laser. Another Cult Battalion with 6x 20 man BB squads with Grenade Launcher and Lascannon. Take a Astra Militarum Supreme Command Detachment with 3x Company Comanders in it. Support both blobs with a Patriach and Iconward to make fearless and have a 6+++ save. Total of 240 bodies with 12 Mining Laser, 6 Lascannon and 24 Grenade Launchers.

The crazy thing is this is only about 1850 points, so you have enough points to chuck in a Kelamorph and Jackel Alpha.

End result, 120 guys deepstrike in with hitting on 3s rerolling 1s and 120 guys moving up the field with 2-4 shots per guy per turn.

If you are going with a good amount of Neophytes, while the Kelamorph and Jackal Alphus are great, I would add a Primus in the list as well. The Primus gives a permanent "reroll 1s to wound" debuff against 1 enemy unit the first time he enters the battlefield (to all Cult units within 6".) Then with your list, the Primus could serve as melee support to the blobs in later turns (for a mere 72pts.) The JA is basically a free "Overlapping Fields of Fire" each round for all units of the same Cult (so +1 to hit 1 specific unit per turn). I will add a pic of the Kelamorph's "Heroic Deeds" at the end for folks who missed it on the Warhammer Community page.

So the kellermorph. I was told by someone that he only gets extra hits vs opp's with a pistol?

Can we definitely give orders to BB infantry squads? Having auto orders is pretty powerful on a 20 man unit. Makes them half way to being the old conscripts...

 DoomMouse wrote:
Can we definitely give orders to BB infantry squads? Having auto orders is pretty powerful on a 20 man unit. Makes them half way to being the old conscripts...

RAW right now, you can. I have a sneaking suspicion that that was not intended, mainly because of the 20-man squadcap, the fact that you could order bullgryns, and the fact that they replaced the Vox Caster rule with a morale reroll for BB squads.

I suspect the line that says "Does not get regiment doctrines, orders, relics" did not mean "Regiment doctrines, regiment orders, regiment relics" but instead meant "Regiment doctrines, ANY orders, ANY relics."

I would refrain from making any purchases with orders in mind until the 2-week FAQ has passed.

Timeshadow wrote:
So the kellermorph. I was told by someone that he only gets extra hits vs opp's with a pistol?

That is correct. But I do not see any problem there. He is an absolute killer with his pistols and should not go into melee anyway. Or what is your question referring to?

Please note it is the Kellemorph that needs to have the pistol weapon. Not the enemy.

 Niiai wrote:
Please note it is the Kellemorph that needs to have the pistol weapon. Not the enemy.

IIIIIII dunno, I think BCB could make at least a 5-page thread arguing the opposite.

The intent here isn't clear, I mean, the model only has 3 pistols.

the_scotsman wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Can we definitely give orders to BB infantry squads? Having auto orders is pretty powerful on a 20 man unit. Makes them half way to being the old conscripts...

RAW right now, you can. I have a sneaking suspicion that that was not intended, mainly because of the 20-man squadcap, the fact that you could order bullgryns, and the fact that they replaced the Vox Caster rule with a morale reroll for BB squads.

I suspect the line that says "Does not get regiment doctrines, orders, relics" did not mean "Regiment doctrines, regiment orders, regiment relics" but instead meant "Regiment doctrines, ANY orders, ANY relics."

I would refrain from making any purchases with orders in mind until the 2-week FAQ has passed.

I'm just thinking of the horrible board control I could grab with 20 man units move-move-moving up the board while staying in range of a fearless-making patriarch

Yeah I guess I could see them stopping that. Hope they keep orders for allied AM detachments though, losing them would really make brood brothers AM-1

the_scotsman wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Please note it is the Kellemorph that needs to have the pistol weapon. Not the enemy.

IIIIIII dunno, I think BCB could make at least a 5-page thread arguing the opposite.

The intent here isn't clear, I mean, the model only has 3 pistols.

3 pistols and a cult knife for CC.

I am really getting sick of all the nerfing of the GSC that GW is doing. I would love to see the Ynnari’s allied detachments only count for 1/2 CPs, for their characters to be limited to 1 per detachment, and for their best melee character be forced to become the Warlord. While we are at it, lets remove all faction bonuses from their allies, but give them +1 leadership and “look out sir.”

Jrandom are you trolling? What do you mean nerfing the GSC? You are saying the index is better then the codex the day before release. Sounds like a poorly worded opinion or a troll baiting. Anyway, you are welcome to your opinion. I the mean time I am gonne have funn with all these new rules!

 DoomMouse wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Can we definitely give orders to BB infantry squads? Having auto orders is pretty powerful on a 20 man unit. Makes them half way to being the old conscripts...

RAW right now, you can. I have a sneaking suspicion that that was not intended, mainly because of the 20-man squadcap, the fact that you could order bullgryns, and the fact that they replaced the Vox Caster rule with a morale reroll for BB squads.

I suspect the line that says "Does not get regiment doctrines, orders, relics" did not mean "Regiment doctrines, regiment orders, regiment relics" but instead meant "Regiment doctrines, ANY orders, ANY relics."

I would refrain from making any purchases with orders in mind until the 2-week FAQ has passed.

I'm just thinking of the horrible board control I could grab with 20 man units move-move-moving up the board while staying in range of a fearless-making patriarch

Yeah I guess I could see them stopping that. Hope they keep orders for allied AM detachments though, losing them would really make brood brothers AM-1

I am half hopeful that BB units will still be able to receive orders after the 2 week FAQ. After all, they are defecting guard units. If they do lose the ability then so be it. I have started to warm to BB squads since i found out they can take 20 man squads. I mean 1 point for cult ambush and cult traits is not a lot, but if you want to save those points then at least we have the option.

BTW it may sound crazy but I have been thinking about the acolyte flamer bomber and I am not convinced it is actually worth it . Ok so here me out please. A flamer bomb is gonna cost 160 points for 20 acolytes with hand flamers. No taking out the fact that 6" is a really short range and not all are likely to be in range of a single unit, lets look at how effective this unit will be. On average we are looking at 70ish auto hits, which is gonna result in 35 wounds. The end result is 22 dead GEQ. Now I am using guard as the base of this thought process because Infantry Squads are currently some of the most cost effective chaff. but 22 dead guard is 2 Guard Infantry Squads is only 80 points. So your flamer bomb has only got back half its points. Any IG player worth his salt is gonna have 100 infantry minimum and probably spread out across 2 lines of screens . Now obviously someone might put a few upgrades on those squads, with the most common combos being Plasma/Heavy Bolter or Autocannon/Grenade Launcher, but even with this taken into account the flamer bomb is A) not gonna gets its points back and B) not gonna break the double screen screen.

Thoughts?

 Jrandom wrote:
I am really getting sick of all the nerfing of the GSC that GW is doing. I would love to see the Ynnari’s allied detachments only count for 1/2 CPs, for their characters to be limited to 1 per detachment, and for their best melee character be forced to become the Warlord. While we are at it, lets remove all faction bonuses from their allies, but give them +1 leadership and “look out sir.”

I mean, on one hand yes, the allied GEQ stuff GSC can get is pretty garbage compared to straight codex guard.

That's almost certainly the intention. Nobody wants GSC to be a couple units and then a guard brigade. I mean, I certainly don't. If you want to run mostly guard stuff, you could. I dunno. Play guard.

I fully expect no orders for our guard stuff. The writing is on the wall IMO, and if they leave it up after the 2-week FAQ I suspect we'd see it coming down the pipe when people start taking 20-man BB infantry squads and issuing FRFSRF orders to them, or Move-Move-Moving max squads of BB ogryns straight at the enemy lines turn 1 with Nightshroud and Barrier up on them.

Brood Bros should be used for cheap HS slots, cheap FA slots, and turn 1 chaff removal with models that start on the board so your GSC stuff can deep strike. Use them as an alternative to nid allies if you don't like the looks of nids.

I expect a competitive GSC list to either be 2 GSC detachments (small one to get CTFAE, large one for a more combat focused cult) and 1 detachment either guard or nids either with a heavy focus on screen removal turn 1. So something like a flyer wing of vulture gunships or a spearhead of a pair of punisher tank commanders and 3 wyverns, or for a nid detachment a supreme command of dakkafexes or swarmy+genestealers.

 Jrandom wrote:
I am really getting sick of all the nerfing of the GSC that GW is doing. I would love to see the Ynnari’s allied detachments only count for 1/2 CPs, for their characters to be limited to 1 per detachment, and for their best melee character be forced to become the Warlord. While we are at it, lets remove all faction bonuses from their allies, but give them +1 leadership and “look out sir.”

I know how you feel, I felt the same way when I first read the codex leak, but trust me GSC have not been nerfed. Here me out before you dismiss what I have to say. GSC are really powerful, like potentially meta changing powerful. Whilst at first the all the little restrictions seem to hamper our ability they are actually there point us in the right direction and to encourage us to stand on our own two (or more) feet. And I am not just saying this without any real life testing. i have done a couple of GSC games now with the new rules and won both handily.

 Niiai wrote:
Jrandom are you trolling? What do you mean nerfing the GSC? You are saying the index is better then the codex the day before release. Sounds like a poorly worded opinion or a troll baiting. Anyway, you are welcome to your opinion. I the mean time I am gonne have funn with all these new rules!

Please name another faction that has so many restrictions on their allies. I guess you could say Orks and Necrons. But Imperials, Chaos, and Eldar have zero restrictions on their allies and no one is saying “that isn’t in the fluff.....” when they are min-maxing the sickest combos.

 Jrandom wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Jrandom are you trolling? What do you mean nerfing the GSC? You are saying the index is better then the codex the day before release. Sounds like a poorly worded opinion or a troll baiting. Anyway, you are welcome to your opinion. I the mean time I am gonne have funn with all these new rules!

Please name another faction that has so many restrictions on their allies. I guess you could say Orks and Necrons. But Imperials, Chaos, and Eldar have zero restrictions on their allies and no one is saying “that isn’t in the fluff.....” when they are min-maxing the sickest combos.

I mean, for starters, the factions that have no allies, like you said.

Drukhari have extreme restrictions on being able to claim subfaction tactics - you have about 6-10 units that can take advantage of any given subfaction tactic, and all of them are limited to a single HQ and a single Troop choice per detachment. Theyre still considered one of the best factions in the game, because what you CAN do with them is incredibly good.

That's where GSC land. If you want unrestricted allies...ally nids instead of guard. You can ally freely with them, get full CPs, etc.

I would much much much much much much rather be in the situation of Drukhari, where what I can do with my own faction/allies is slightly limited but highly competitive, than in the situation of space marines, where my ally options are KILLER but my own codex is so garbage that it just makes more sense to play 90% allies than my own chosen faction.

That is where I want GSC to be with respect to those guard ally options. Please, give me reasons to take neophytes over Brood Bro infantry. Please, make allied guard battalions worse than straight GSC battalions. Please give me a reason to consider GSC vehicles over allied guard vehicles, or a reason to take GSC commanders over allied guard HQs.

Sure, you can go "but competitive imperial armies can take guard with no restrictions!" but that's not a good thing about them, it's a bad thing. It means competitive imperial lists just straight up ARE GUARD and people who want to play those armies have to spend more time painting guardsmen than the faction they'd actually like to be playing.

Brood brothers existing and having full access to the guard vehicle catalog is a good thing.

making sure that guard catalog is not the most competitive thing so players wanting to make a competitive GSC list don't have to paint 60 guardsmen is also a VERY GOOD THING.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:


I am half hopeful that BB units will still be able to receive orders after the 2 week FAQ. After all, they are defecting guard units. If they do lose the ability then so be it. I have started to warm to BB squads since i found out they can take 20 man squads. I mean 1 point for cult ambush and cult traits is not a lot, but if you want to save those points then at least we have the option.

Not sure if you are aware, but those 20 man BB units also have cult ambush. FRFSRF here I come!

AAaaaand this is why I hope they DONT keep orders.

Because 2 units of 20 bbs can cult ambush in and if you can get a 30-point allied BB company commander within range of them you can put out more firepower than 20 acolytes with hand flamers using the 2CP stratagem to get close.

2CP vs 30pts...you decide...

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jrandom wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Jrandom are you trolling? What do you mean nerfing the GSC? You are saying the index is better then the codex the day before release. Sounds like a poorly worded opinion or a troll baiting. Anyway, you are welcome to your opinion. I the mean time I am gonne have funn with all these new rules!

Please name another faction that has so many restrictions on their allies. I guess you could say Orks and Necrons. But Imperials, Chaos, and Eldar have zero restrictions on their allies and no one is saying “that isn’t in the fluff.....” when they are min-maxing the sickest combos.

I mean, for starters, the factions that have no allies, like you said.

Drukhari have extreme restrictions on being able to claim subfaction tactics - you have about 6-10 units that can take advantage of any given subfaction tactic, and all of them are limited to a single HQ and a single Troop choice per detachment. Theyre still considered one of the best factions in the game, because what you CAN do with them is incredibly good.

That's where GSC land. If you want unrestricted allies...ally nids instead of guard. You can ally freely with them, get full CPs, etc.

I would much much much much much much rather be in the situation of Drukhari, where what I can do with my own faction/allies is slightly limited but highly competitive, than in the situation of space marines, where my ally options are KILLER but my own codex is so garbage that it just makes more sense to play 90% allies than my own chosen faction.

That is where I want GSC to be with respect to those guard ally options. Please, give me reasons to take neophytes over Brood Bro infantry. Please, make allied guard battalions worse than straight GSC battalions. Please give me a reason to consider GSC vehicles over allied guard vehicles, or a reason to take GSC commanders over allied guard HQs.

Sure, you can go "but competitive imperial armies can take guard with no restrictions!" but that's not a good thing about them, it's a bad thing. It means competitive imperial lists just straight up ARE GUARD and people who want to play those armies have to spend more time painting guardsmen than the faction they'd actually like to be playing.

Brood brothers existing and having full access to the guard vehicle catalog is a good thing.

making sure that guard catalog is not the most competitive thing so players wanting to make a competitive GSC list don't have to paint 60 guardsmen is also a VERY GOOD THING.

First off, that was an excellent post that I just exalted. But why limit the GSC characters to 1 per Detachment? GW has already put in the limit of three. Now you basically can’t take the Drill terrain piece (or any other fortification,) if you want allies, since you can’t take all the characters you want in one detachment.

GSC could do a pretty cheap brigade now, could they not?

elites would be CP guy, assassin and kellemorph.
Fast attack 3x sentinels
Heavy support: 3 heavy weapons teams
Leaders: Your choise
Troops: Cheap tropps and 2 blogs to come in from reserve.

How many points is that roughly?

 Niiai wrote:
GSC could do a pretty cheap brigade now, could they not?

elites would be CP guy, assassin and kellemorph.
Fast attack 3x sentinels
Heavy support: 3 heavy weapons teams
Leaders: Your choise
Troops: Cheap tropps and 2 blogs to come in from reserve.

How many points is that roughly?

Now that I think of it, the BB Heavy Weapons teams have Cult Ambush as well and since the units coming out of ambush do not count as moving, you could fire at 4+ (3+ with a Jackal Alphus on the board). Is there any mojo in popping up HW Teams under perfect LOS conditions?

 Jrandom wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jrandom wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Jrandom are you trolling? What do you mean nerfing the GSC? You are saying the index is better then the codex the day before release. Sounds like a poorly worded opinion or a troll baiting. Anyway, you are welcome to your opinion. I the mean time I am gonne have funn with all these new rules!

Please name another faction that has so many restrictions on their allies. I guess you could say Orks and Necrons. But Imperials, Chaos, and Eldar have zero restrictions on their allies and no one is saying “that isn’t in the fluff.....” when they are min-maxing the sickest combos.

I mean, for starters, the factions that have no allies, like you said.

Drukhari have extreme restrictions on being able to claim subfaction tactics - you have about 6-10 units that can take advantage of any given subfaction tactic, and all of them are limited to a single HQ and a single Troop choice per detachment. Theyre still considered one of the best factions in the game, because what you CAN do with them is incredibly good.

That's where GSC land. If you want unrestricted allies...ally nids instead of guard. You can ally freely with them, get full CPs, etc.

I would much much much much much much rather be in the situation of Drukhari, where what I can do with my own faction/allies is slightly limited but highly competitive, than in the situation of space marines, where my ally options are KILLER but my own codex is so garbage that it just makes more sense to play 90% allies than my own chosen faction.

That is where I want GSC to be with respect to those guard ally options. Please, give me reasons to take neophytes over Brood Bro infantry. Please, make allied guard battalions worse than straight GSC battalions. Please give me a reason to consider GSC vehicles over allied guard vehicles, or a reason to take GSC commanders over allied guard HQs.

Sure, you can go "but competitive imperial armies can take guard with no restrictions!" but that's not a good thing about them, it's a bad thing. It means competitive imperial lists just straight up ARE GUARD and people who want to play those armies have to spend more time painting guardsmen than the faction they'd actually like to be playing.

Brood brothers existing and having full access to the guard vehicle catalog is a good thing.

making sure that guard catalog is not the most competitive thing so players wanting to make a competitive GSC list don't have to paint 60 guardsmen is also a VERY GOOD THING.

First off, that was an excellent post that I just exalted. But why limit the GSC characters to 1 per Detachment? GW has already put in the limit of three. Now you basically can’t take the Drill terrain piece (or any other fortification,) if you want allies, since you can’t take all the characters you want in one detachment.

Probably because the new characters have abilities similar to what other factions only get on their named characters. The biologis could have been "Dr. Gene Splicimus Tealur, Twisted Helix Aberrant Mad Scientist" and the Jackal Alphus could have been "Jeanne 'Steel' Ur, Rusted Claw biker vanguard" but by limiting them to 1 detachment we can use them in any cult.

Personally, I'd be jazzed if my orks had their characters genericised and I could have a special Kommando boss, a special stormboy boss and a special mega armor warboss using the snikrot zagstruk and ghazghkull models, but for whatever clan I painted my models as.

Look at Kellermorph. That dude's abilities would be completely unforgivable on a character you could take 3 times in a single vanguard detachment (heck, they're probably unforgivable anyway...)

There has been a lot of solid discussion on this last page. Well done, everyone.

I'm still saddened by the fact I can't put cult infantry models in Chimeras anymore. The Goliath Truck is just not my cup of tea. Plus I have a sizeable guard army (the reason I started GSC was I thought it would be a cheaper Xenos army) and now my Chimeras are pretty much useless here. Those darn Goliath kits are so expensive!

I, in part, also startet GSC as I had a spare Chimera from GK 5th edition. No such luck. I am hard pressed to se their purpose in the new codex.

What I'm picking up from this page of discussion is that I can take a AM detachment - which I plan to do anyways - and the Company Commander from that detachment can give orders to my Brood Brother Infantry Squad taken from Codex: Genestealer Cults, that unit being in the GSC detachment.

The reason for this is the keyword <Brood Brothers> in the Brood Brothers Infanty Squad dataseet and the Company Commanders ability to give orders to units that share his <Regiment> keyword, in this case <Brood Brothers>. Is that all correct?

That is amazing.

Rules as they are currently written, that is the case.

today I played 1800 points against necrons. 22 command points, and on turn 4 I had 0 ...

This army really needs a lot of CPs..

I played brigade battalion twisted helix (and broodsorge) with patriarch, acolyte iconward, and primus, nexus, clamavus, 10 aberrants picks (2 metamorphs), 20 acolytes hand flamers, 19 acolytes 6 saws and icon, 4x6 acolyes, 3 sentinels flamers, and 3x3 mortars. And a battalion 4armed emperor with 3x10 broodbrothers, magus and jackal. Also 140 points for reinforcement.


I spent 1 cp in broodsurge and other to give rerolls chargues, 1 with broodcoven, 3 to give 2 reliqs(prevent overwatch to primus and banner +1 S to iconward), also 1 to change 3 blips to reserves.
I spend 2 in summon a unit, and other to reroll one dice to chargue with that unit (that i fail too )
2 to lying in wait with flamers (that kill 3 necrons..) 3 for perfect ambush with aberrants.. and other 3 to atack again after leaving a tesseract with 2 wounds...
Other 3 cps in perfect ambush with the big unit of acolytes.
And some cps to rerolls, as trying to control the tesseract 2 turns that I did not get

I won by points but the 2 armies have run out of miniatures .

The codex is very powerful, many combos, but either you kill or you die too easy. My friend's list was a bit focused against me, with a lot of saturation with little rend, and also i have had very bad throws (with the new cult dices..)

So a bittersweet flavor

So it's just a small thing, but I noticed that Cult Chimera and Leman Russ can take items from the Vehicle Upgrade list:

Augur Array: Once per battle, in the Shooting phase, you can re-roll a single failed hit roll (5 points)
Track Guards: Always counts as having its starting number of wounds when determining its Move characteristic (10 points)
Dozer Blade: +1 to hit in fight phase (5 points)

QUESTION:

During setup, you put 50% of your Power-Level underground, then you put the remaining 50% in the form of blips. After the game has started, let's say you go first, at the start of your movement, you are forced to reveal all of your blips. You then play "They Came From Below" to put 3 blip units into reserves. At the end of your movement, you put another unit into reserves using "Return to the Shadows." At the end of your first turn, you effectively have 80% of your forces in reserve at this point. As I do not have CA 2018, I am questioning if this is legitimate.

If it isn't legitimate, doesn't that nerf the usefulness of these 2 stratagems? Especially, since you can only put into play your reserves on turn 2 and 3. Additionally, there is limited usefulness of starting with 80-90% of your units in blip form, just to put them into reserve on turn one for the cost of 2 CP (so you can keep 50% of your Power-Level on the table at all times). Also, do you have to keep track of your remaining Power-Level during the game (which changes based on causalities) just to make sure that when you are putting units into reserve, that you don't cross the 50% threshold?