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During setup, you put 50% of your Power-Level underground, then you put the remaining 50% in the form of blips. After the game has started, let's say you go first, at the start of your movement, you are forced to reveal all of your blips. You then play "They Came From Below" to put 3 blip units into reserves. At the end of your movement, you put another unit into reserves using "Return to the Shadows." At the end of your first turn, you effectively have 80% of your forces in reserve at this point. As I do not have CA 2018, I am questioning if this is legitimate.
If it isn't legitimate, doesn't that nerf the usefulness of these 2 stratagems? Especially, since you can only put into play your reserves on turn 2 and 3. Additionally, there is limited usefulness of starting with 80-90% of your units in blip form, just to put them into reserve on turn one for the cost of 2 CP (so you can keep 50% of your Power-Level on the table at all times). Also, do you have to keep track of your remaining Power-Level during the game (which changes based on causalities) just to make sure that when you are putting units into reserve, that you don't cross the 50% threshold?
Doesn't the 50% rule only apply to deployment at the start of the game? I don't think you have to worry about keeping your reserves at 50% since you'd be using these strategems after the game started.
... Also, am I missing something or could you include a Tempestor Prime in your AM detatchment, deepstrike him in turn 2 along with two 20-man units of Brood Brothers, and have the Tempestor issue them the FRSRF order, since they all share the <Brood Brothers> regiment?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/09 04:23:38
Astmeister wrote: Note that patriarchs do not gain a cult creed because they are genestealers.
I figured that were the case, but didn't one of the official 40k facebook posts even talk about how you could buff your patriarch to crazy absurd levels by combining the twisted helix cult rule with their relic on your patriarch, as if the cult rules not applying to genestealers is so dumb even they didn't realize they wrote it that way.
Niiai wrote: Jrandom are you trolling? What do you mean nerfing the GSC? You are saying the index is better then the codex the day before release. Sounds like a poorly worded opinion or a troll baiting. Anyway, you are welcome to your opinion. I the mean time I am gonne have funn with all these new rules!
Please name another faction that has so many restrictions on their allies. I guess you could say Orks and Necrons. But Imperials, Chaos, and Eldar have zero restrictions on their allies and no one is saying “that isn’t in the fluff.....” when they are min-maxing the sickest combos.
I mean, for starters, the factions that have no allies, like you said.
Drukhari have extreme restrictions on being able to claim subfaction tactics - you have about 6-10 units that can take advantage of any given subfaction tactic, and all of them are limited to a single HQ and a single Troop choice per detachment. Theyre still considered one of the best factions in the game, because what you CAN do with them is incredibly good.
That's where GSC land. If you want unrestricted allies...ally nids instead of guard. You can ally freely with them, get full CPs, etc.
I would much much much much much much rather be in the situation of Drukhari, where what I can do with my own faction/allies is slightly limited but highly competitive, than in the situation of space marines, where my ally options are KILLER but my own codex is so garbage that it just makes more sense to play 90% allies than my own chosen faction.
That is where I want GSC to be with respect to those guard ally options. Please, give me reasons to take neophytes over Brood Bro infantry. Please, make allied guard battalions worse than straight GSC battalions. Please give me a reason to consider GSC vehicles over allied guard vehicles, or a reason to take GSC commanders over allied guard HQs.
Sure, you can go "but competitive imperial armies can take guard with no restrictions!" but that's not a good thing about them, it's a bad thing. It means competitive imperial lists just straight up ARE GUARD and people who want to play those armies have to spend more time painting guardsmen than the faction they'd actually like to be playing.
Brood brothers existing and having full access to the guard vehicle catalog is a good thing.
making sure that guard catalog is not the most competitive thing so players wanting to make a competitive GSC list don't have to paint 60 guardsmen is also a VERY GOOD THING.
First off, that was an excellent post that I just exalted. But why limit the GSC characters to 1 per Detachment? GW has already put in the limit of three. Now you basically can’t take the Drill terrain piece (or any other fortification,) if you want allies, since you can’t take all the characters you want in one detachment.
Probably because the new characters have abilities similar to what other factions only get on their named characters. The biologis could have been "Dr. Gene Splicimus Tealur, Twisted Helix Aberrant Mad Scientist" and the Jackal Alphus could have been "Jeanne 'Steel' Ur, Rusted Claw biker vanguard" but by limiting them to 1 detachment we can use them in any cult.
Personally, I'd be jazzed if my orks had their characters genericised and I could have a special Kommando boss, a special stormboy boss and a special mega armor warboss using the snikrot zagstruk and ghazghkull models, but for whatever clan I painted my models as.
Look at Kellermorph. That dude's abilities would be completely unforgivable on a character you could take 3 times in a single vanguard detachment (heck, they're probably unforgivable anyway...)
Yup, you nailed it. Would have sucked to have these guys all split into different cults. Besides, folks are acting like it is a major setback, meanwhile I have yet to see a list posted that isn't 3 detachments lol. You can still very easily get 3 kellermorphs into a list if you hate having friends.
I also want to say I agree fully with your synopsis of the armies format in building detachments. I play drukhari and while it's tricky to get used to at first, the army is way ahead of the others, GSC reminds me of that. I honestly think GW is planning on reigning in on allies next. All the factions are out, now they will start polishing the edition. Wouldn't be shocked if you got reduced CP on any detachment that isn't made up from whatever your declare to be your primary.
Gremmer wrote: Mining laser needs faq, in the weapon list it’s d3 dmg, making it crap, but on the jackal datasheet it’s d6, making it viable...
Ah, that's a lame typo, the mining laser has D6 damage listed in the digital version of the codex weapon list, so at least we know what it's meant to be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/09 21:29:54
Gremmer wrote: Mining laser needs faq, in the weapon list it’s d3 dmg, making it crap, but on the jackal datasheet it’s d6, making it viable...
does the jackal have a heavy mining laser instead?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Gremmer wrote: Mining laser needs faq, in the weapon list it’s d3 dmg, making it crap, but on the jackal datasheet it’s d6, making it viable...
Ah, that's a lame typo, the mining laser has D6 damage listed in the digital version of the codex weapon list, so at least we know what it's meant to be.
Cheers! Making it interesting then.
In the points section, is brood brothers 10-20 or just 10? (It’s that way in paper back)
Gremmer wrote: Mining laser needs faq, in the weapon list it’s d3 dmg, making it crap, but on the jackal datasheet it’s d6, making it viable...
Ah, that's a lame typo, the mining laser has D6 damage listed in the digital version of the codex weapon list, so at least we know what it's meant to be.
Cheers! Making it interesting then.
In the points section, is brood brothers 10-20 or just 10? (It’s that way in paper back)
It says 10-20 models in both the points section and the unit's datasheet.
Any thoughts on weapon distribution for Neophytes?
I really want to like the mining laser option, but man does it feel bad to stick a Heavy 1 weapon on a BS 4+ model. It's not exactly expensive though so it still may be worth it since you can take 2 and will probably hit with 1 of them.
I find the shotgun option intriguing. Close support squad with Flamers and Shotguns? Or webbers since they are super cheap and have better range then flamers? Skip the heavy weapons to keep them cheap?
10 man squad with 2x Seismic Cannon and Autoguns seems interesting for squatting on an objective. Maybe throw a couple grenade launchers in there too. Not like you are breaking the bank for any of the special weapons really.
Also I'm not really seeing much of a reason to give the leader any extra stuff. Not like you want these dudes in melee anyway right? You have acolytes for that!
OEMoose wrote: Yay got my hands on the digital version now!
Any thoughts on weapon distribution for Neophytes?
I really want to like the mining laser option, but man does it feel bad to stick a Heavy 1 weapon on a BS 4+ model. It's not exactly expensive though so it still may be worth it since you can take 2 and will probably hit with 1 of them.
I find the shotgun option intriguing. Close support squad with Flamers and Shotguns? Or webbers since they are super cheap and have better range then flamers? Skip the heavy weapons to keep them cheap?
10 man squad with 2x Seismic Cannon and Autoguns seems interesting for squatting on an objective. Maybe throw a couple grenade launchers in there too. Not like you are breaking the bank for any of the special weapons really.
Also I'm not really seeing much of a reason to give the leader any extra stuff. Not like you want these dudes in melee anyway right? You have acolytes for that!
I've been thinking of running a couple of them as 10-man units in Goliath Trucks, with the Seismic Cannon/Grenade launcher loadout. Possibly the Mining Lasers now that they are D6 damage, essentially short-range lascannons. The main drawback is the moving and shooting the heavy weapons — though that could be negated by keeping a Jackal Alphus nearby. It's not a Leman Russ, but it still seems like an interesting weapons platform with a variety of options for dealing with heavy infantry and light vehicles — and if your opponent lets you get close enough to throw demo charges, that's essentially a Russ battle cannon added to the mix. It isn't exactly durable with T6 and only 10 wounds, but your opponent still has to deal with the Neophytes that survive the truck being destroyed. But that's assuming they even focus on the trucks, since they'll be dealing with all our cult ambush shenanigans turn 2. Plus . . . thematically I just really love the idea of mechanized cultists in the trucks.
157 points for:
Twin Autocannon: 48", Heavy 4xS7/-1/2
Heavy Stubber: 36", Heavy 3xS4/0/1
2x Seismic Cannons: 24", Heavy 12xS3/0/1 | 12", Heavy 6xS6/-1/2 — or — 2xMining Lasers: 2xS9/-3/D6 2x Grenade Launchers: 24", Assault 2D6xS3/0/1 | Assault 2xS6, -1, D3
6x Autoguns: 24", 6xS3/0/1(or 12", 12xS3 in Rapid Fire range)
Demo Cache: 6", Assault D6xS8/-3/D3
With that said, if Brood Brother Infantry+Orders don't get FAQ'd, then I don't really see a reason to take Neophytes over Brood Brother Infantry if you're just planning on deep-striking them turn 2. I think 80 lasgun shots might beat anything a Neophyte squad can bring to the table.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/02/10 00:14:04
Kicked off a narrative campaign vs Crimson Fists today. Not matched play so there was a bunch of wacky stuff going on, but I got some good impressions: Kellermorph wasn’t anywhere near as threatening as people were making him out to be, but still put in work, the Patriarch is a monster, especially with the +1 S/A WL trait and no overwatch relic, one shorting Pedro Kantor. I spent way too many CP pregame (7/13) however. I think our summoning strat is legitimately good. On average you’ll get to summon 12PL, and its good way to have a 100-150 point “sideboard” of units you can switch in/out to tailor your matchups. E.g. if you’re up against a lot of Knights you can summon a bunch of Rocksaw acolytes or Aberrants
The heavy rock drill triggers a roll for mortal wounds if it wounds but does not destroy a model. Does this proc per drill? For example, if I attack a knight with a unit if Hybrids that have 8 drills in it, and each drill does a single unsaved wound, would I roll for 8 mortal wounds or 1?
Colonel Cross wrote: You'd roll per weapon that inflicted damage. Why wouldn't it work that way?
Because the wording looks ambiguous enough to span 5 pages of YMMV. I read it as per weapon, but I wanted to see what everyone else thought.
At 8 in a 20 man unit, with an icon, that's roughly 10 MW on a T8 3+ model. I'm assuming 4 drills get a wound in, and 2 MW per saw. At 290 points for the squad, and considering the 30 some rending swings behind it, it should kill most things it touches.
Why not both? Depends on your army and both armies deployment. Shoot 2 or 3 times. Then return him to the shadows. Then he gets the 1d6 deployment stratagem for free and then you charge.
I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but is cult ambush still bound by the tactical reserves beta rule? Does a unit that is set up as a "blip" count as being set up on the battlefield, or in reserve?
What about units that are underground?
Apologies if I've missed something obvious, but I can't see an answer to this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 12:30:11
Niiai wrote: Why not both? Depends on your army and both armies deployment. Shoot 2 or 3 times. Then return him to the shadows. Then he gets the 1d6 deployment stratagem for free and then you charge.
It depends on what you need taken out I guess.
From what I gather you can only have the rifle or dagger, can't have both. Or am I missing something?
If I am not mistaken, you can give the Sanctus the relic rifle (+2 to wound roll) and get a mortal wound on a 4+, which would then trigger Perils if the target is a Psyker. A 41% chance to put d3+1 MW on a Psyker isn't bad for 60 points.
You have to give up the rifle to get the dagger, no multitasking with him.
I dont see an exemption that would prevent you from using the summoning strat to summon characters. PL 3 means you cant fail to summon him. Kind of a waste of 2CP, but you could have one of each painted and summon the one you needed.
Thinking about it, would this be a way around the one per detachment character limit?
Robtype0 wrote: I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but is cult ambush still bound by the tactical reserves beta rule? Does a unit that is set up as a "blip" count as being set up on the battlefield, or in reserve?
What about units that are underground?
Apologies if I've missed something obvious, but I can't see an answer to this.
Cult Ambush in our Deployment zone is not bound by tactical reserves beta rule, "underground" deployment (Deep Strike) still is
babelfish wrote: If I am not mistaken, you can give the Sanctus the relic rifle (+2 to wound roll) and get a mortal wound on a 4+, which would then trigger Perils if the target is a Psyker. A 41% chance to put d3+1 MW on a Psyker isn't bad for 60 points.
You have to give up the rifle to get the dagger, no multitasking with him.
I dont see an exemption that would prevent you from using the summoning strat to summon characters. PL 3 means you cant fail to summon him. Kind of a waste of 2CP, but you could have one of each painted and summon the one you needed.
Thinking about it, would this be a way around the one per detachment character limit?
So it seems he's ok at taking out characters but mainly built for killing psykers with the rifle?
Dagger is all round jump in and hurt stuff?
Robtype0 wrote: I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but is cult ambush still bound by the tactical reserves beta rule? Does a unit that is set up as a "blip" count as being set up on the battlefield, or in reserve?
What about units that are underground?
Apologies if I've missed something obvious, but I can't see an answer to this.
Cult Ambush in our Deployment zone is not bound by tactical reserves beta rule, "underground" deployment (Deep Strike) still is
Thanks for the reply. Where is this stated? I can't see any mention of the tactical reserves rule in the book, and the exemption for genestealer cult in the FAQ has been removed
I'm not doubting you, and it seems that this is the way it should work, but I can't see where this rules interaction is clarified.
1000pts Space Marines 
1200pts Tau 
2500pts Blood Angels 
3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades 
and 1700pts Daemons 
450pts Imperial Knights 
